Maybe I just have my head in the sand b/c I have never met, heard of, or seen a woman say that her birth experience was more important than the life of her child, ever. I'd love a link directing me to such a NB nutter though!
Do you also have any source for your claims about HB and the NICU?
I agree. In my experience, the vast majority (99.99%) of women are looking to have a NB because they feel (not that it is necessarily always true) that it is the healthiest thing for their LO.
No one comes out and says, "My birth experience is more important than the life of my child," but sometimes, actions speak louder than words.
I *hate* Monday morning quarterbacking of birth experiences, because 1) if I wasn't there, I don't know the whole story, and 2) every woman has different views on what is "risky" and what is not. That said...
I think most women who gave birth to a baby with hands and feet that were turning black due to lack of oxygen would recognize that this was a situation where a C-section was the healthiest thing for their baby... yet this mom concludes the birth story by saying that she felt her C-section was unnecessary and that she's angry about it.
I've read far more egregious examples in the past. I'm not going to go dig them up because I don't really need to be looking for stories about dead/seriously injured babies at this point in my pregnancy. But if you read through Dr. Amy's past posts, you'll find some, I'm sure.
Mommy to DD1 (June 2007), DS (January 2010), DD2 (July 2012), and The Next One (EDD 3/31/2015)
Perhaps the issue is not with HB itself though. Maybe the problem is that home birth is poorly regulated and not integrated into our health care system at all. If HB could be done legally in all 50 states by licensed, regulated, highly trained midwives who had a relationship with local hospitals and physicians, I am sure we would see better outcomes. In fact, whenever there is a study from, say, the Netherlands showing that HB is just as safe as hospial birth, anti-HB responses say "but those results don't apply here because HB is integrated into their maternity care system." So if that is what it takes to make HB safer, why don't we do that here? Instead we have ACOG, Dr. Amy, etc. making wholesale condemnations of home birth itself. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water. There is a big difference between a HB attended by a CNM who also has hospital priveleges and a relationship with local OBs, and a HB attended by a illegally practicing lay midwife who has to call 911 and hide in the closet if something goes wrong.
There are legit reasons to want a home birth. Let's make sure those moms and babies are getting good care.
Actually, Dr. Amy is a big advocate for better training/licensing/regulation of midwives. See, for example, her most recent post (but there are tons of other examples):
And the Netherlands actually has the highest perinatal death rate in Europe, with one recent study showing that low-risk homebirth babies died at a higher rate than high-risk hospital birth babies.
Mommy to DD1 (June 2007), DS (January 2010), DD2 (July 2012), and The Next One (EDD 3/31/2015)
I am by no means a frequent poster but this caught my attention. For the record I hope to have a natural birth and have been doing the necessary preparations conducive to making that happen.
However, as big of a NB believer as I am, I also believe this radical lady does have a good point that she makes in several posts. It's the underlying theme that baby's health is, (or should be,) more important than the mothers birth experience. Too many NB advocates spend too much time planning out every detail of birth and get so caught up in selfish expectations that they forget the big picture... HEALTHY BABY!
Also, for for those who HB, that's all good and fine and it's each individuals prerogative, however my mom works in a NICU and there is an overwhelming number of HB babies in there whose problems could have been avoided if they would have had the proper medical care in a more timely manner. If you choose to HB that's fine, but I think some people should take the blinders off and recognize that it does carry a higher risk and be ready to take responsibility for and/or plan for unforeseen consequences. This is all just MO and I hope it doesn't come off as judgy, I guess I'm speaking more against the extreme side, if that makes sense.
Perhaps the issue is not with HB itself though. Maybe the problem is that home birth is poorly regulated and not integrated into our health care system at all. If HB could be done legally in all 50 states by licensed, regulated, highly trained midwives who had a relationship with local hospitals and physicians, I am sure we would see better outcomes. In fact, whenever there is a study from, say, the Netherlands showing that HB is just as safe as hospial birth, anti-HB responses say "but those results don't apply here because HB is integrated into their maternity care system." So if that is what it takes to make HB safer, why don't we do that here? Instead we have ACOG, Dr. Amy, etc. making wholesale condemnations of home birth itself. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water. There is a big difference between a HB attended by a CNM who also has hospital priveleges and a relationship with local OBs, and a HB attended by a illegally practicing lay midwife who has to call 911 and hide in the closet if something goes wrong.
There are legit reasons to want a home birth. Let's make sure those moms and babies are getting good care.
two thumbs up. I live in Canada, one of the countries where midwifery is regulated, midwives have university degrees in midwifery, and all midwives have hospital and homebirth privileges for low-risk pregnancies. The BC government has carefully tracked midwife-attended births at home and hospital since midwifery care became regulated and covered under the public health care system and found that homebirths are at least as safe as low-risk hospital births attended by physicians (and actually have lower rates of infant death, birth injuries, post-partum hemmoraging, infection, etc). Homebirth can be very safe, but is probably less safe if you are with a poorly trained "midwife."
Perhaps the issue is not with HB itself though. Maybe the problem is that home birth is poorly regulated and not integrated into our health care system at all. If HB could be done legally in all 50 states by licensed, regulated, highly trained midwives who had a relationship with local hospitals and physicians, I am sure we would see better outcomes. In fact, whenever there is a study from, say, the Netherlands showing that HB is just as safe as hospial birth, anti-HB responses say "but those results don't apply here because HB is integrated into their maternity care system." So if that is what it takes to make HB safer, why don't we do that here? Instead we have ACOG, Dr. Amy, etc. making wholesale condemnations of home birth itself. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water. There is a big difference between a HB attended by a CNM who also has hospital priveleges and a relationship with local OBs, and a HB attended by a illegally practicing lay midwife who has to call 911 and hide in the closet if something goes wrong.
There are legit reasons to want a home birth. Let's make sure those moms and babies are getting good care.
Actually, Dr. Amy is a big advocate for better training/licensing/regulation of midwives. See, for example, her most recent post (but there are tons of other examples):
And the Netherlands actually has the highest perinatal death rate in Europe, with one recent study showing that low-risk homebirth babies died at a higher rate than high-risk hospital birth babies.
I agree with what she has written in that post about CPMs and how licensing == safe. I said earlier in this thread that I think she often makes good points. However, does she support better training and regulation of home birth midwives? Because she always seems to be attacking the very notion of home birth and home birth midwives, not saying "let's support and regulate home birth with CNMs and integrate them into the healthcare system." She doesn't seem to look for any middle ground and if she wants to improve the safety of home birth and qualifications of HB midwives, I don't think she is doing that goal any favors.
Do you have a link to that study?
Big sister {September 2008} Sweet boy {April 2011} Fuzzy Bundle {ETA July 2014}
Number one, yes, I *Don't* post here often, I made that clear. Thank you for stating the obvious. I would like to think that this is a place where one can give their opinion without needing the validation of 4,000 previous posts to back it up.
LULZ. You haven't been on the knot/nest/bump much then! If you're going to say something as stupid as:
mjheffne:
However, as big of a NB believer as I am, I
also believe this radical lady does have a good point that she makes in
several posts. It's the underlying theme that baby's health is, (or
should be,) more important than the mothers birth experience. Too many
NB advocates spend too much time planning out every detail of birth and
get so caught up in selfish expectations that they forget the big
picture... HEALTHY BABY!
then yes, you do deserve to be called out for it. Like someone else said above, the vast, vast majority of women are thinking of the health of their baby when it comes to giving birth.
I agree with what she has written in that post about CPMs and how licensing == safe. I said earlier in this thread that I think she often makes good points. However, does she support better training and regulation of home birth midwives? Because she always seems to be attacking the very notion of home birth and home birth midwives, not saying "let's support and regulate home birth with CNMs and integrate them into the healthcare system." She doesn't seem to look for any middle ground and if she wants to improve the safety of home birth and qualifications of HB midwives, I don't think she is doing that goal any favors.
Do you have a link to that study?
It's hard to tell... certainly, one of her biggest issues with homebirth is the lack of training and regulation. But suppose tomorrow, magically, all homebirth midwives were regulated and required to get thorough training, and the safety statistics improved accordingly. Would Dr. Amy turn around and start supporting homebirth, or at least be less negative about it? Who knows. Maybe she only picks on the regulation issue because 1) it provides her with a good opportunity to make HB midwives (many of whom oppose licensing) look crazy/irresponsible, and 2) she knows it's not going to change. *shrug*
She no longer practices medicine BTW. I have read her blog a few times. It just makes me angry. I think an epi can be empowering for some women and NB can be empowering for others. I think the key to empowering women is to give them all the information and let them make an informed choice. That's empowerment. She doesn't care about empowering her patients, though. She just cares about being in power.
I just glanced over her site, that woman is a NUTJOB!
One of her posts, she claims attachment parenting causes autism. One of her reasons "no one has ever proven attachment parenting doesn't cause autism". HUGE fallacy!
On another, she says giving birth without drugs is like anorexia. Because I don't want my baby to be flooded with medicines at birth, and don't want the risks involved with an epidural, I have a mental illness?
"Empowering" epidurals? I'm sure my sister felt empowered when she fell on the floor in the middle of the hospital hallway and peed all over herself after she gave birth; oh wait, I think she described it as helpless and embarrassed! I'm sure my friend who still has back-pain from an epidural over a year ago feels empowered.
And this lady has a license to practice medicine?!
I just checked out her blog (and despise it, fyi) but I thought I'd calm your nerves by letting you know that autism and attachment parenting article was said to be "satire" (she writes this towards the end of the piece). I think the woman is a nutjob, either way, but just thought I'd reassure you )
Re: I never knew that someone could be so against NB
No one comes out and says, "My birth experience is more important than the life of my child," but sometimes, actions speak louder than words.
I *hate* Monday morning quarterbacking of birth experiences, because 1) if I wasn't there, I don't know the whole story, and 2) every woman has different views on what is "risky" and what is not. That said...
https://birthwithoutfearblog.com/2012/04/27/processing-2-cesarean-sections-a-twin-cesarean-birth-and-a-c-section-due-to-placental-abruption/
I think most women who gave birth to a baby with hands and feet that were turning black due to lack of oxygen would recognize that this was a situation where a C-section was the healthiest thing for their baby... yet this mom concludes the birth story by saying that she felt her C-section was unnecessary and that she's angry about it.
I've read far more egregious examples in the past. I'm not going to go dig them up because I don't really need to be looking for stories about dead/seriously injured babies at this point in my pregnancy. But if you read through Dr. Amy's past posts, you'll find some, I'm sure.
Mommy to DD1 (June 2007), DS (January 2010), DD2 (July 2012), and The Next One (EDD 3/31/2015)
Actually, Dr. Amy is a big advocate for better training/licensing/regulation of midwives. See, for example, her most recent post (but there are tons of other examples):
https://skepticalob.blogspot.com/2012/05/idaho-homebirth-disasters-not-about.html
And the Netherlands actually has the highest perinatal death rate in Europe, with one recent study showing that low-risk homebirth babies died at a higher rate than high-risk hospital birth babies.
Mommy to DD1 (June 2007), DS (January 2010), DD2 (July 2012), and The Next One (EDD 3/31/2015)
In Canada, not every province has regulated midwives. My province does not.
I agree with what she has written in that post about CPMs and how licensing == safe. I said earlier in this thread that I think she often makes good points. However, does she support better training and regulation of home birth midwives? Because she always seems to be attacking the very notion of home birth and home birth midwives, not saying "let's support and regulate home birth with CNMs and integrate them into the healthcare system." She doesn't seem to look for any middle ground and if she wants to improve the safety of home birth and qualifications of HB midwives, I don't think she is doing that goal any favors.
Do you have a link to that study?
LULZ. You haven't been on the knot/nest/bump much then! If you're going to say something as stupid as:
then yes, you do deserve to be called out for it. Like someone else said above, the vast, vast majority of women are thinking of the health of their baby when it comes to giving birth.
DS2 - Oct 2010 (my VBAC baby!)
It's hard to tell... certainly, one of her biggest issues with homebirth is the lack of training and regulation. But suppose tomorrow, magically, all homebirth midwives were regulated and required to get thorough training, and the safety statistics improved accordingly. Would Dr. Amy turn around and start supporting homebirth, or at least be less negative about it? Who knows. Maybe she only picks on the regulation issue because 1) it provides her with a good opportunity to make HB midwives (many of whom oppose licensing) look crazy/irresponsible, and 2) she knows it's not going to change. *shrug*
Here's a link to the Netherlands study: https://www.bmj.com/content/341/bmj.c5639.full
Mommy to DD1 (June 2007), DS (January 2010), DD2 (July 2012), and The Next One (EDD 3/31/2015)
well said...she sounds like a whack job
I just checked out her blog (and despise it, fyi) but I thought I'd calm your nerves by letting you know that autism and attachment parenting article was said to be "satire" (she writes this towards the end of the piece). I think the woman is a nutjob, either way, but just thought I'd reassure you
)