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Clicky: Are teachers underpaid?
What is the general consensus.[Poll]
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Re: Clicky: Are teachers underpaid?
Entry level salary for teachers in my area is over $30K. For 9 months of work.
My first job out of college, in Boston, paid $24K. For 12 months of work.
I think they're paid reasonably well.
Now social workers? They are not paid enough.
There is a HUGE difference between tenured and not tenured. I have about 5 friends that are teachers. They start around low to mid 30's for an annual salary. That is not enough, IMO.
However, once you have been in the system for any # of years, you can start to earn around $50-60k/year and I think that's a more fair salary range.
That said, many occupations start off in the low to mid 30's and you have to work your way (basically - do your time) to get to that higher range. So, in that respect, I don't think they are underpaid.
I'm so wishy washy huh!?
I agree social workers or those in the human services areas should make more than they do..but I know this post is about teachers..
I think it does really depend on the area and the districts.
I used to help out in my cousin's classroom when he was in 1st grade in public school (he's 16 years younger than me, and this was about 10 years ago) and his teacher had a master's degree in reading education, BS in elementary edu and still made less than I did- and I worked as a call center rep for the power company, which all it required was HS diploma or GED. (I made right over 30k a year, the teacher made around 26k). She left teaching to wait tables because she made more doing that than teaching. (she waited tables all through college and afterwards during the summers)
My BIL is a teacher at a private school and I know he makes a little over $85k a year plus he coaches a sport and gets some $ for that. (tuition at this school is in the $40k a year range)
I have other friends who are now teachers and their pay ranges drastically from low to high in different public districts. So I don't think you can make a general generalization for the whole country.
I was recently offered a SPED job that paid 47k. That's with 7 years teaching experience and a MA. um, yea right.
As a former teacher now in the corporate world...yes, teachers are underpaid.
Ditto. Between security, pension and other benefits, teachers do well in Ontario/Canada.
And, I'd like to add, you cannot pay a good teacher enough, IMO.
My first teaching job in 1992 paid just under $21K a year. I moved a couple of times so was not eligible for tenure in the systems where I taught. When I quit in 2005 I was paid $38K in the not-cheap state of MD. That was marginally more than what the full-time people working at Home Depot were earning, so I felt underpaid.
DS - December 2006
DD - December 2008
See, perfect example of Its All Relative. $47k is a lot to me, we could have a very good living if I was bringing in that kind of salary.
How is being a teacher not a human service area? They are helping to set the foundation for YOUR children. That's a little insulting.
It's a different career field, with it's own federal/state/municipal funding. You've never heard of the Department of Health and Human Services, which is different from the Department of Education?
This is not a value judgment, it's a different field. yeesh.
Exactly. I have an MA in my field, have over 10 years of experience, live in a HCOL aread, and I'm making less than that because of budget cuts and hiring freezes. My industry (publishing and journalism) has been mauled in this economy, and I'm in the just-thankful-to-have-a-job category.
Oh, gosh, yeah I didn't mean to insult anyone, but I have a counseling degree and I just meant it exactly as what is said above-it's a different career field..if you're in the human services area or career counseling that's just what you say!
In the school district where I grew up, entry level is over $35K with excellent benefits. That's a reasonable living around here. Some teachers are making almost 6 figures, again, with far better benefits than in the private sector. Some of the urban school districts do not pay so well, though, so while I voted no, I don't think I can make that generalization, even in my area.
Annelise 3.22.2007 Norah 10.24.2009 Amelia 8.7.2011
Yes in Texas they are grossly underpaid for the work they do. My Mom taught for 35 years in the same district with two masters degrees. When she retired she was making the same amount DH made his first year of his job and DH had less education and experience. Teachers in TX start out at a pretty good salary, but unlike the cooperate world recieve little to no raises. In the past 7 years of working Dh has earned more in raises than my mother did in 35 years total. We litterally earn an extra $500 a year, which is easily spent on classroom supplies. I work part time in an office now and comparing the two jobs is a joke I am no where near as worn out and tired after working and coming home to be a mom as I was just teaching without children. The amount of time most teachers put in after the "work day" is through would astound a lot of people.
Yea, that is a lot to me too.
Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter
"><a href="http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"><img border="0" src="http://tickers.myfitnesspal.com/ticker/show/825/1820/8251820.png" /></a><p style="text-align:center;width:420px;"><small>Created by MyFitnessPal - Free <a href="http://www.myfitnesspal.com">Calorie Counter</a></small></p>Yah, I'd be hard pressed to say a teacher in our area doesn't earn a good living. But, I know it's different in different areas of the country.
Someone above wrote that you can't pay a good teacher enough. I agree, except there is no merit pay for teachers. Big problem. For many reasons, I doubt that will ever change.
Teacher jobs are stressful, challenging and rewarding -- I'll agree with that. I've never had a more difficult job or a more rewarding job. But I feel like it's a job for younger people, lol -- especially in my particular field (SPED/Behavior Disorders). I also feel like a scripted curriculum killed the challenge. And lastly, there is no TRUE home-school connection...because teachers cannot really connect with parents as it becomes a liability to the school. When it comes to SPED, a lack of a home-school connection is a complete travesty of education.
Definitely depends on the area. My friend went back to work teaching after not working for 5 years (so no tenure or anything - she only worked 1 year before she got pg so she's considered entry level). Her starting salary is 60k which is a good amount of money for our area. She also gets an extra 5k a year for volunteering for lunch duty 2-3 times a week.
I work for a huge company, and right now the starting salary is 45k, so she's making 15-20k to start than someone with a business degree.
The amount of overtime they spend on grading papers and special projects more than makes up for their summer break. And it's not 9 months. My SIL gets maybe 1-1/2 months off. They are expected to do stuff after school ends and about a month before school starts. Not to mention, all the money they have spend themselves on supplies and classroom accessories.
I don't think they are all underpaid, because I think the competence level can vary so much. There are some teachers who obviously view their job as babysitting. But the good ones are woefully unrewarded.
Teachers and cops, man. They are our future and protectors. If I ran the world, they'd be paid six figures.
Dude. Your brother needs to move. Our district starts around $42k.
It really, really is not a simple question.
Do some teachers make great money? Yes. Is it often commensurate with their level of education and experience, as well as the time put in, when compared with other jobs? No. For me personally, neither my husband nor my best friend have even a 4 year degree. I have a Master's in Education. They are both in IT, and both make way more than I ever did or will make as a teacher.
It kills me when people say teachers only work 9 months a year. While teachers may have summers off, many supplement their income by writing curriculum, or spend their summers and breaks taking required continuing education classes to stay on top of current best practices in the classroom, to maintain their certification. Their days are not 8-3 as many would like to believe. When I was teaching, I had 75 minutes of planning time per day. In that time, I was expected to eat lunch, grade assessments, plan lessons for 3-4 different reading group levels, 2 different math levels, language arts, content (science, health, or social studies,) complete paperwork for students, communicate with parents, and more. And I was fortunate to teach in a school where students came to school ready to learn, from homes where education was valued, so I didn't have to deal with the behavior problems and outside forces that so many teachers face on top of that.
My personal opinion is that the way we show respect for a career is through money, and given that teachers are preparing the next generation, it is one of the most important and respectable career choices one could make. So yes, I think they should make more in general. BUT - I do not agree with the current system wherein all teachers who have X degree and have been teaching for Y years make the same amount due to a contract. I busted my ass when I was in the classroom, and made the same or less than people who were lazy, and failed their students in various ways. That sucked. But, the idea of paying teachers based on student performance and testing is also ridiculous, because so much of that is outside even the best teacher's control. Because I was good at teaching, I always got the lowest kids who were below grade level or struggling. I think administrators should be evaluating their teachers and should have a say in whether a teacher is excellent, satisfactory, or unsatisfactory based on what they observe both on tests and in the classroom on a regular basis, and teachers who are excellent and/or go the extra mile would make more.
*stepping off soap box, sorry!*
It does depend on the district, but in general, I do not think they are underpaid. I wouldn't say that they are typically well paid, either, but there is a middle ground there. There are plenty of professional people out there who compensated similarly to a lot of teachers with enough money to live on but not enough to save much or ever really get ahead. Not all career fields are big money makers and that's very often not tied to how important the job is. And not everyone in the corporate world gets big raises or has opportunities to advance, either.
(My own salary is very close to what a teacher with my same level of education and years of work experience would make in my local school district, my benefits are the same, I don't have as much total time off as a teacher, but I have more flexibility to take time off when I want to, so it's a trade-off.)
Christmas 2011
I'm a teacher and I am paid well. However, I am in a good district and have been working here for a decade. When I started in a different district I was making in the mid-$20s with a Master's degree that I paid $24,000 for, lol. I got laid off (along with all the 1st year teachers that year) and luckily got hired where I am now.
I have busted my tush taking classes and getting advanced certificates to help me move up the pay scale to where I am now. In two years I will top out and the only 'raises' I will get will be cost of living increases, which are currently frozen by the state due to budget cuts. So basically by the time I turn 36 I will be making as much as I'll ever make. I try not to think about that...
However, and here's my big however, the benefits are not as great for teachers like me vs teachers that are about to retire. The man who teaches next door is on Plan One and can retire with 60% of his pay and excellent health benefits. And he's allowed to sub if he wasnts to make extra money! The state/district froze that plan about 25 years ago. Those that were hired after that have nothing nearly as good. I'm just saying you can't compare the retirement packages since they have changed A LOT.
Not sure if that all made sense... I typed it quickly during recess.
Yes, underpaid.
Teacher salaries are public record here and available on the website of our town's newspaper. Just out of curiousity I just looked up ds' kindergarten teacher from last year. He has taught in the district since 2004 and this year is making $33k. To have 25-27 kindergarteners all alone, no teacher's aide, in a school known for having lots of children from "bad homes" with behavioral problems? Totally underpaid.
Just for the hell of it I also looked up the school's principal. She's new to the school this year but has over 20 years of experience. $67k for 2011.
Also, the district has cut the amount that they pay towards health insurance and I hear that many teachers can't even afford to insure their families anymore. They easily work 10+ hour days, can only take vacations on the school's schedule, have to buy their own classroom supplies, and spend a good amount of their summer vacation doing required classes, trainings, getting their classroom ready, lesson planning, etc.
That being said, I agree that while there are some excellent school teachers there are also plenty of lazy, dumba$$ teachers out there as well but that's an entirely different topic.
This is how I feel. Like Andrewsgal - isn't your DH a rocket scientist or something? I don't see how you can compare the two.
Just because other jobs pay similarly doesn't mean that teachers aren't underpaid for what they do, it just means that there are lots of people in underpaid professions IMO.
Dh and I both work in non-profits. I'm in social services and he's in environmental protection. We both are paid less than even the teachers around here. Despite that I still think teachers don't make enough, they're just a little less underpaid than we are, LOL.
Are they underpaid for the number of hours they put in, the level of education and expertise required and the skills needed? Definitely over the long-term. My friends who are teachers all started way higher than I did, but their salaries have stagnated with very small increases where those I know in private sector have the potential for growth (although most of them have not gotten any sort of raise in years, that is not the norm). It seems like in NJ they have a higher "entry level" salary but lower salary than other professionals within 10 years with subsequently lower raises
Are they the *only* underpaid career out there? Nope, not at all. I can think of many professions that are paid less than they are worth (architects, liberal arts professors, are the first that come to mind, but there are many others as well)
I thought they were underpaid when I was a teacher.
However, since I am become a social worker, work year round and for less pay, I don't they they are near as underpaid as I used to. :P
I will graduate in a year with a degree in English education. I will make about $28K to start. DH started at about the same as a Firefighter/EMT. While I'd like to make more than that, we will live comfortably on the two salaries.
I don't think it is fair to compare how much teachers make at retirement, though. I would hope nearly every job pays well by the time a person retires. Even the FD pays a pretty decent wage when you've put in 20+ years. (And by pretty decent, I mean the guys getting ready to retire make about $80K).
I think it depends on the district and even more so by the state. I work in strong union district. I pay $43,000 in my fourth year of teaching and only have my bachelors. I have fabulous insurance and many other great benefits. Do I think I am underpaid? No.
My friend who has the exact same schooling/experience but works in a smaller district 10 miles north of me makes $29,000. Her insurance is awful and has very few other benefits. Do I think she is underpaid, yes.
My only issue with many of the arguments is the reasoning behind it like summers off, 8-3 work hours, etc. I know that it's easy to look at teachers and think they get 3 months off in the summer. I don't know very many teachers that don't work through the summer on school related things. This goes for breaks as well. While we have contracted hours, I don't think I've ever met a teacher that can only work their contracted hours and get done what needs to be done.
I would love to see there be some kind of performance based pay. I have no idea how it could be created to be fair and taking into account special education children or annual progress, but I think it is time we move to something that weeds out the worthless teachers.