- Pregnancy
- Baby & Toddler
- Parents
- Getting Pregnant
- Baby Names
- Product Reviews
-
Registry
- Community
-
More
Want a personalized experience?
Download the free app
June 2011 Moms
kimbo1216
member
s/o FF v BF and judgment
kimbo1216
member
Inspired by the UO:
Who feels judged for their decision either way?
Who feels guilty/upset or just has negative feelings about what they are doing?
Let your frustrations out here ladies. What do you have to say about the topic?
I'm just curious because I have never felt judged for my decision to BF. I have gotten a lot of questions and have always used it as an opportunity to educate though. However, it seems like there are arguments from both camps. Most people I know, irl FF. I only know 2 women in my circle that BF'd for longer than a few weeks.
Sunset: I'm so not trying to call you out. I'm just curious about your response. You are normally so even tempered and supportive in your responses that I was surprised you had such a strong reaction today--which is totally okay. I'm just saying I was surprised.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: s/o FF v BF and judgment
I'm on my phone right now, so it will be a bit before I can do a real response, I just didnt want you thinking you'd upset me, and feeling bad!
And Then There Were Three...
Married: 08/14/10
Baby #1 Born: 06/18/11
June Moms Blog
I BF and have gotten the side eye from DH's family.
Also from anyone on earth who asks if she STTN, and when I say no, tell me to give her more formula/cereal/etc in a bottle before bed-- when I explain that she's BF so that doesn't really work, they give me looks like I am some sort of masochist.
No matter what it is, BF vs FF, natural birth vs epi, co sleeping vs crib, CIO vs no cry sleep solution.... If you are doing something different than another person judgements will be passed. For some reason most people feel the need to justify what they do, why they do it and why anything else is wrong. I can't count how many times I've been judged on what I do and why I do it, and I offend people when I say "why does it matter what I do?"
The truth of the matter is that what is right is whatever works for your family, barring that you are not doing anything to physically or emotionally damaging to your child.
I try not to judge people, but it's hard sometimes, I think it's just the way a lot people are brought up "defending what they believe in". Be confident in what you believe, but know that just because it's right for you, doesn't mean that other people need to agree with you, and just agree to disagree
**Gets off soapbox**
I feel slightly judged by my mother for BFing, not all the time but I pick up on it occasionally. I'm also expecting the judgement to pick up when I continue to BF til he's ready to wean, hopefully around 2.
But like PP said, everyone does what's right for them in their situation. I feel that as women we should really support each other's decisions. No one wins when everyone feels judged.
I know I am judged for FF my LO. With DD, my milk never came in. She got FF. While I was prego with DS, DD's SM asked if I planned to BF him. I said yes, I did plan on it, however, wasn't sure I would be able to. I also knew that I would most likely suppliment with formula to make sure DH or other baby sitters would be able to feed him, so we bought a few cans of formula in advance. DD's SM's reaction? "You don't even plan to try to BF! No one who plans to BF buys formula. I can't even imagine not being a good enough mom to do everything possible to make sure my child gets BF!" She has had supply issues and buys all the special foods and pills etc to make sure she can BF until at least 2 years old. Turns out, I exclusively FF. Not because of supply or not wanting to BF, but because my BM makes him sick. Gassy, vomiting, constipated. He just can't have it.
I have also seen other folks out here give me the side eye for FF, but I don't much care about them.
October Siggy: Then & Now
At The Pumpkin Patch
This. I have gotten the occassional comment that I should give formula to help DS STTN but never any negativity about BF
Haha oh yeah I have gotten that a lot from BIL whose FF baby slept through the night from 6weeks on (or so he says).
I forgot to add at first that I also haven't been praised at all for BF. Honestly no one really says anything to me about it one way or the other.
I do get tired of people asking. I used to explain my situation. If I would say that I FF, and get asked about BF, and say I tried.....THEN they ask if I tried fenugreek. I tried for around ten weeks. I tried everything. I've stopped explaining. It just frustrates me and accomplishes nothing to go on about having tried everything, even domperidone and reglan
In short, I do feel judged.
The last person to ask was my LOs babysitter, and I understand her asking, since she is one of the few people who would need to know. She has a six month old, and I'm pretty sure she BFs. It did seem like she was surprised that I don't BF, but I just changed the subject.
It's still a sensitive subject, but not something that will make me cry anymore.
I got some judgment from my mom before I had him regarding bf but it was more " You are going to bf, right." not really a question. The only comments I get anymore are from my little sister in regards to how long I will bf. I understand her though because before I had DS I thought bfing older kids (six months plus) was weird. Now I'm determined to make it a full year. It's one of those never say never.
In terms of judging, I don't. What's the point? I'm not perfect and I have no idea what I'm doing
No stranger has never said anything negative or positive to me regarding FF. I got a major guilt trip from my mom for switching to formula... she's a huge bfing advocate. It really sucks when the person you're closest to (besides DH of course) doesn't support you on something like that. But she doesn't mention it anymore and she sees LO thriving just the same. While no one else has negatively said anything to me, I have gotten a lot of people who feel like they need an explanation of why I am not BFing. At this point I shouldn't have to justify my decision to anyone, but other people feel differently. That kinda sucks.
I'm done with the guilt though. It took me awhile to get over it, but it was the best choice for our family.
I bf and ff due to a whole mess of issues. I don't think anyone judges the fact that I supplement, but I feel like I judge myself. I really wanted to EBF, but it just wasn't in the cards.
I do HATE how so many people, complete strangers mind you, who ask if I ff or bf. It is one of the standard questions I get every time I go out with the girls. I'm still not sure why people think it is OK to ask stranger such personal questions, but I wondered the same thing when I was preggo and people kept rubbing my belly.
I EBF and have never really been judged for it. Some teenagers at the mall made a comment under their breath about me NIP in the children's play area of the food court as opposed to the nursing/ changing room- but who cares what they think (and who wants to nurse in a tiny room that has a chair, changing table, and stinky trash can in it?)
I've only been praised by my older friends who BF'd their own babies, and the WIC lady b/c I think it's unusual for her to have many EBFing moms in her office. Mostly people just mind their own business and say nothing.
If I was closer to family I might get some critisism from MIL who thinks BFing is bad for the mom. And my mom would be pressuring me to start solids sooner (or pressuring more than just on the phone).
Okay, here goes:
First off - I am not targeting any one person. It has been several similar posts that have built me up to this point.
Secondly, I understand the heartbreak of not being able to BF. I went through it. I also went through pumping round the clock to produce a single ounce in 24 hours so that my baby at least got SOME breast milk. Do I feel guilty about not being able to BF? Yes, but only because I had a breast reduction surgery without researching first, and my inability to BF actually IS my fault.
In my travels across the boards in the last couple of months (and yes, that includes more than one post on our June board), I have seen quite a few posts about supplementing or stopping BFing that have been less "this sucks, but at least my kid's getting fed" and more "woe is me, formula is horrible, I'm a bad mom". There are a few parts that I've seen in many of these posts that rub me entirely the wrong way.
1. "I feel like a failure as a mother"
- Alternately, "I'm such a horrible mother". Every time I see this, I want to respond with, "Gee, so nice to see you think so highly of moms who have to FF! Fvck you very much!". In making this statement, you're implying that the inability to BF directly determines your inability to be a mom. People like me, who have supplemented or FF'd from day one apparently didn't stand a chance. We're the worst mothers around, I guess!
2. "I can't believe I have to feed my baby formula!
- It's a specially developed, nutritionally complete, breastmilk replacement. Not poison, as these posters would lead you to believe. Would you rather have to give them goats milk from the corner of a washcloth like they did before formula was made? At least that's "natural" for you.
3. "I'm going to miss being able to bond with my baby"
- Again, SO happy to see you think I can't bond with my baby because my boobs don't work. *eyeroll*. Every time you so much as look your baby in the eyes, you're bonding with them. He/she is just happy to be fed, no matter whether it's a boob or bottle.
4. The unnecessary sob story.
- These posts often include a huge laundry list of exactly how much fenugreek they were taking, how they drank 17 cups of mother's milk tea a day, ate nothing but oatmeal for two weeks, surgically attached their pump to their boobs, and used a small child as a drug mule to get an unauthorized trial medication from Mexico. THIS is where the worst of the "martyr" complex occurs. Is it so hard to say "I tried every remedy, medical and homeopathic, and nothing worked". Listing the hardships you endured like a war survivor is a cry for pity, not empathy.
It's almost like these moms somehow at the same time are desperately trying to make excuses where none are needed, but at the same time one-up other moms, by showing they did more to keep BFing than the last mom who posted. I applaud the mom who posted within the last week who complained about supplementing for the simple fact that formula is NOT cheap, and BFing made things easier financially.
NOW, on to the original post question:
Who feels judged for their decision either way?
- On the June Mom's board, indirectly via points 1, 2, and 3. Never through a direct statement. In real life, AAALLLL the time. I get the side-eye every time I bring out a bottle, even though it's pretty much impossible to tell the difference between formula and breastmilk at a glance. Every nurse and doctor I talked to after D was born questioned my dedication to my attempts to BF and pump.
When asked if I nurse, for some people, the simple statement "I had a reduction as a teen, and they just don't work" is enough to shut them up. For others, it makes it worse. I get asked "Didn't you think about the problems it would cause in the future?!" with such indignation. Because, you know, BFing woes are the first thing on an 18 year old's mind when she's so uncomfortable she's resorted to having her boobs hacked apart. No, I didn't think about it, and I feel bad enough without you rubbing my face in it.
Who feels guilty/upset or just has negative feelings about what they are doing?
I do, to an extent, but only because I DIDN'T think it through, and didn't find a duct-preserving method for reductions until AFTER I had it done. I was a teenager with a one-track mind who didn't consider that minds change, and even if I didn't WANT a baby then, I could have gotten knocked up by accident. So yes, I feel guilty for letting my poor self image, and teenage vanity get the better of my logical, rational mind. Not because I'm committing some sort of perceived social faux-pas by not BFing.
And Then There Were Three...
Married: 08/14/10
Baby #1 Born: 06/18/11
June Moms Blog
I have has some praise from a few people and judgement from others. Every time I am on the phone with my Godmother and DD will fuss she comments that she must be hungry. Then she always thinks we should go to solids sooner because poor DD must be hungry. I know she is not really for my BF'ing and frankly it p*sses me off. That is all she has said but I take the hint. She is old fashioned and does not get it. Ugh.
My Mom, DH and MIL are big supporters though. I told my Mom recently that my Meme makes those comments and my Mom said "she's doing awesome and she is healthy as can be!". Meaning that she is never sick like I was as a baby. I was fed 100% formula and it made me happy to hear my Mom rave so positively of my BF'ing. She never really praised me one way or the other.
SIL quit BF'ing her kids because "it was hard and a lot of work" (she SAID she never made enough but she supplimented right off the bat soooo) and was convinced I would not be able to keep it up when I went back to work TWO DAYS a week. Hmmmmm, that was 7 weeks ago.
I had a friend ask me months ago if I was planning on weaning soon.
and when I said no she was like "really, geez...how long are you going to do it?" Like a year was crazy or something. Guess it was odd that I was not ready to get out and drink/party often like she did so soon after having her son..
BLOG
Sunset, I appreciate your response and very much know how you feel. I am a fellow breast reduction mama and feel guilty that I didn't research my decision more. The fact is, I was so miserable and uncomfortable that I did it for myself and quite frankly I'm glad I did. I live in the south... the land of EBFing... and I get the hairy eyeball from Everyone. The doctors and nurses in the hospital tried to force me to breastfeed even though an unidentified discharge was coming out of my breasts and not colostrum (I only had my reduction 3 years ago). I'm really bothered by the fact that so many people around me think BFing is the only way and if you aren't doing it you are somehow a bad mom. My pedi lovingly reminds me that formula is great stuff and they wouldn't sell it if it wasn't great for my baby. The damage has already been done and there is nothing I can do but accept the fact that my children will be FF.
(P.S. I think it is awesome that DD has slept through the night since she was 5 weeks and she can go on overnight visits with her grandparents.)
Sunset: well, your post did make me laugh! (the unnecessary sob story part). I'm sure I'm one of the women you're talking about, and I have to say, I am very sorry if it came across that way! Honestly, I wasn't really thinking about how my words would affect those who have already gone to formula- because in a lot of ways I thought those people would be the most empathetic, having been there themselves (no matter what the reason or when it occurred). Mostly, I'm just trying to find others going through the same thing *right now*- and it's comforting to know that there are other ladies here who have done all the same stuff to try to continue and still can't make enough, etc, etc. I think, in my case, I was reassuring myself as much as trying to get reassurance from others that it's okay to stop.
Anyway, just my viewpoint. I'm sorry if it offended you!
I agree with this. I know in the not-so-distant past I have gone on and on about doing everything and anything to try and BF. I would say at that point I was simply looking for reassurance. In retrospect I made very emotional decisions that were not at all logical. I used Reglan despite having sworn that I would not b/c of the serious side effects. Everyone IRL kept telling me to quit in the nicest way possible. Stressing out and literally crying over it wasn't healthy at all. Happily FFing as opposed to behaving like a mad woman trying to get these boobs to work (and baby's latch) would have been the wiser choice.
I have been judged for EBFing, but I really couldn't care less. By the same token, I do judge FFing moms. I understand that some people just can't BF, but in countries where nearly everyone breastfeeds, "lactation failure" is virtually nonexistent. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201108/breastmilk-wipes-out-formula-responses-critical-comments
I don't blame women who FF, it's definitely easier, especially in the beginning when BF can be really horrible. Plus our society tells moms that FF is a choice every mom should have the right to make, and that formula is a perfectly suitable replacement for breast milk. It's not. It's inferior, and every nutritionist, doctor, nurse and any person not in the pocket of or under the sway of formula (drug) companies will tell you that.
That being said, if BFing moms were more supported from the get-go, in the hospital, at work, in public, etc. things would be totally different. If BFing wasn't something that was even considered a "choice" that a woman would make, if formula was only used as a last resort in emergency situations, then we wouldn't have to have these discussions, no one would feel judged, and we'd have a whole country of healthier babies.
Flame away.
ugh. as one of those 1-5% of women from the stats quoted in your article- i thank you for your judgement.
I got judged for EPing. It was from EBFing moms. I was told just to put the baby at the boob. That it is so much easier. For me, it wasn't. I am now 1/2 and 1/2 at breast and BM in bottle. If I didn't EP for the first 12 weeks we would not be where we are now. I think we should be more supportive of EPers.
This is the only child I have gone this long feeding BM to. I have personally never dealt with supply issues just support issues so I quit after 2 months. I know that formula is not the prefered method to feed a baby but sometimes that is what we have to do as moms.
I judge not a single woman for her decision no matter which way she decides to go. There are a million and one reasons why each woman decides her path and what is best for her and her child. The thing each woman needs is "support". Support for what she wants to do and support what she has to do.
When we find things offensive it is usually because we are having strong emotional responses at that time. I know Sunset that your situation is horrible for you. That you are dealing with a lot of emotion right now but I also think you are very sensitive because of the strong emotion. Do I blame you? Absolutely not. Though, when someone here posts about their issues it is to find support like I stated above. They either need support to continue doing what they want to do (they may not have it in real life) or support for what they have to do (again may not have it in real life). It isn't meant to be a personal attack on anyone, just personal feelings. So don't take it as such.
You can offer that support. If a mom is needing/wanting to stop BF you can offer another view point that the EBFers can't provide.
I will digress now before this posts becomes a novel.
I honestly don't remember WHO posted them, just that there were a few posted in here in the last few weeks - likely because supplies are starting to tank with people going back to work.
I completely understand wanting reassurance that it's cool to FF if you have to. It's the ones who make it about themselves, or vilify formula without thinking of how it would affect moms who already FF that rub me the wrong way.
I'll be the first to admit I'm far more bitter than I should be about my decisions, and my inability to BF. I probably let more than I should get under my skin.
tfmb2009: FWIW, anything I've read indicates that the further in the past the surgery was, and the more pregnancies you have, the better your chances are of BFing. My surgery was 7 years ago this coming December, so the possibility of the techniques being updated when you had yours is good. I would retain just a tiny shred of hope that you may be able to even partially BF in future!
And Then There Were Three...
Married: 08/14/10
Baby #1 Born: 06/18/11
June Moms Blog
Wow. I got on this post mostly to see what Sunset had said and then I see this. I EPd for 6 weeks. I produced plenty of milk for LO and probably could have continued to. I don't disagree with you that formula is inferior to BM - it is, straight up. Formula can't provide to them your immunities, it's missing all kinds of good stuff. You have every right to your opinion on that.
But there is absolutely nothing wrong with someone using formula instead of BF if that's the choice they make for their family. You have zero right to judge someone else for their choice on that matter - ZERO. The are not putting their child in harm's way, they are not beating their child, or doing something unsafe or stupid with their child - they are FEEDING their child and, frankly, that's all that should matter to an outsider.
In no way, at all, do I want to discourage people from posting about BFing frustrations, or comfort and advice when supplementing/quitting. I know VERY well the support this board gives, and it has been a godsend for me more than once.
My particular issue isn't with BF posts in general, it's those that contain the 4 points I listed. The first three, though I'm sure it's largely unintentional, are quite hurtful to a FF mom. It calls into question our intelligence, our mothering skills, and our connection with our child. When you're already on rocky ground from your own decisions, it's hard not to react to these statements.
I want to clarify on point number four. I understand listing what you've done to prevent rehashing used-up options. I wrote that point the way I did to make the example of the ones who include every minute detail without need. To say you've tried fenugreek, oatmeal and mother's milk tea lets us know....you know, that you've tried these things. It's a good idea. Telling us you took 16 fenugreek capsules 3 times a day, washing them down with oatmeal smoothies and your mother's milk tea is throwing down a gauntlet for anyone else trying to increase supply. It's a one-upping game where, in the end, everyone loses.
I really hope that came out the way I wanted it to...it's 12:30am, but I couldn't sleep thinking that I'd maybe scared away someone who could really use some advice.
And Then There Were Three...
Married: 08/14/10
Baby #1 Born: 06/18/11
June Moms Blog
This came from WHO... It seems odd for such a reputable organization to state something so terribly vague. What countries? Specifically.. Third world? Europe? Hmm... I can't argue it b/c there are no specifics.
All I can say for me is that I produced very little colostrum. My OB said this was normal, but I don't think he realized how little. I watched a video on it, and the woman in the video produced at last ten fold what I was.
My milk never came in -- at least not IMO (never engorged). I produced around 5-10ml.
Any OB or pediatrician will tell you that BM is the gold standard, but both my OB and pediatrician were so reassuring when they heard all the problems that I had. I think if FF were so awful, then pediatricians would push for the mom to use donated BM, but they don't at all (or wetnurse). A baby will develop perfectly fine with formula. My Grandmother had six kids and they were all FF. And they are all healthy and successful adults now. If a woman chooses to FF, even with all the support and encouragement prior to birth and after, then she should be not be judged. It's her child.
You're certainly entitled to your own opinion, but these are the type of comments that make me and countless other mothers feel like a "bad mom" for ffing. That article says that formula is "dangerous." That's an awful strong word for something that has helped kept millions of children fed and yes, healthy. The amount of people I know who were raised on formula and ended up normal, healthy, successful adults is endless. Are there obviously advantages of bm over f? Of course.. a ton of studies have proven so. But I'm very weary of research where the author is so emotional about the topic that it detracts from her arguement which should be purely facts. However, I will agree with the author that hospitals and America in general needs to provide more support for bfing mothers. Bfing is HARD, and I think that prenatal classes need to concentrate on this topic more than the actual process of labor since nurses are there to walk you through it anyway.