This is so bizarre to me.

emmeelou · February 2011

angelicalopez29:

armybride86:
Lolz @ the flames coming my way, but I disagree with abortion all together. Late or early. I get that some people HAVE to terminate for medical reasons, and even though that makes me sad still, it has to be done. BUT, IN MY EYES, if an abortion doesn't have to be done for a medical reason (this includes the baby's heart not beating, so forth), then I do not agree with it at all. Not that I believe in god (KEEP THOSE FLAMES COMING!), but who is someone else to play "god" and decide rather someone should live or die. They made the choice to open their legs, and what did they think an outcome of that would be? Even the women who are raped, even though I feel for them, and it's a horrible thing, there is adoption. TONS of people all over are looking to adopt! Just my two cents, flame away, I don't care.

Yeah, I'm on your side, I don't really care if people disagree or flame me, I also believe that late or early, it is a nasty awful thing to do to decide weather or not to take the life away from your own flesh and blood. And you know what, I am glad women that perform various abortions by choice, end up being infertile, they deserve it, those lives conceived in their wombs, are human beings from conception, despite the form or level of maturity... flame away, I don't care either.

Well, then it's a good thing you're not God. He/She is a lot less judgy, understands that many of us aren't perfect, and doesn't punish us for those imperfections in cruel ways. I'm sure He/She is very proud of you for getting closer than the rest of us, though.

MeredithE · February 2011

armybride86:
Even the women who are raped, even though I feel for them, and it's a horrible thing, there is adoption. TONS of people all over are looking to adopt! Just my two cents, flame away, I don't care.

Were you under the influence of a controlled substance when suggesting that raped women should suck it up and just give birth tot he child of their rapist because people are willing to adopt?

BettyBookworm · February 2011

angelicalopez29:
And you know what, I am glad women that perform various abortions by choice, end up being infertile, they deserve it

Wow, WTF. I think this is an awful thing to say. No one on this earth deserves infertility or pregnancy loss. There are very valid, very sad medical reasons why a woman would have to terminate her pregnancy. I feel for these women that find themselves in that type of a situation, and you should hand in your humanity card if you believe this truly.

Even elective abortion I'm sure is not an easy decision to make. I would feel uncomfortable if my doctor asked me to clarify, but its better that they do so they don't take you back with the intent of an abortion when you are there for your first prenatal appointment!

Gummybear · February 2011

The irony in all of this is I bet the same women spouting this garbage about, "no choice for anyone, you must have your babies no matter what your circumstances, you dirty wh0res" are the same ones who clutch their check books close to their chests and say, "don't you dare touch my hard earned money, you lazy welfare momma with all your unplanned pregnacies and neglected babies. And don't you dare ask me to raise MY taxes to pay for your health care".

And I say this as a fiscal conservative. Wink

leahraewku · February 2011

angelicalopez29:

And you know what, I am glad women that perform various abortions by choice, end up being infertile, they deserve it

Wow. Aren't you a gem.

msmerymac · February 2011

NikkiBenzo:
That is obviously an extenuating circumstance and could not be avoided - and certainly wasn't elective. I am talking about elective procedures.

And exactly how many people do you know who have had elective late-term abortions?

AFAIK, before Dr. Tiller was brutally murdered by someone who was "pro-life" there were 2, maybe 3 people in the US who were performing late-term abortions, period. And they did so when there were few other options - the fetus died in utero or had a condition that was incompatible with life. Thank GOD they are (sort of) able to do that because I sure as hell wouldn't want to carry to term and give birth naturally to a child who was already dead or would be in mere moment. I can't imagine the anguish.

msmerymac · February 2011

MeredithE:
armybride86:
Even the women who are raped, even though I feel for them, and it's a horrible thing, there is adoption. TONS of people all over are looking to adopt! Just my two cents, flame away, I don't care.
Were you under the influence of a controlled substance when suggesting that raped women should suck it up and just give birth tot he child of their rapist because people are willing to adopt?

Nine months of being reminded every moment I've been raped. What a joy!

Also, jokes on everyone who thinks women who have abortions become infertile. Abortion is one of the safest medical procedures there is - after tooth extraction, I think.

epphd · February 2011

angelicalopez29:
armybride86:
Lolz @ the flames coming my way, but I disagree with abortion all together. Late or early. I get that some people HAVE to terminate for medical reasons, and even though that makes me sad still, it has to be done. BUT, IN MY EYES, if an abortion doesn't have to be done for a medical reason (this includes the baby's heart not beating, so forth), then I do not agree with it at all. Not that I believe in god (KEEP THOSE FLAMES COMING!), but who is someone else to play "god" and decide rather someone should live or die. They made the choice to open their legs, and what did they think an outcome of that would be? Even the women who are raped, even though I feel for them, and it's a horrible thing, there is adoption. TONS of people all over are looking to adopt! Just my two cents, flame away, I don't care.

Yeah, I'm on your side, I don't really care if people disagree or flame me, I also believe that late or early, it is a nasty awful thing to do to decide weather or not to take the life away from your own flesh and blood. And you know what, I am glad women that perform various abortions by choice, end up being infertile, they deserve it, those lives conceived in their wombs, are human beings from conception, despite the form or level of maturity... flame away, I don't care either.

Wow, you are a piece of fuc_king work. I was on this board just a few weeks ago, pregnant with a miracle pregnancy. I strugged with infertility for five years - not because I had an abortion, but because I was unlucky. I got pregnant with my son after years, thousands of dollars of the gift of an egg donor. So to find I was pregnant again was the thrill of a lifetime.

And that dream was shattered last week with a call from a genetic counselor telling us of massive chromosomal defects with our baby. Today, at the advice of my perinatologist, I had a D&E. I was 12w2d today, almost out of the first tri.

I can tell you without a doubt it was the most painful emotional experience I have ever had. Because I am a rational, mature person, I can say that I hope you never have to experience it.

But I can also say that I hope that Karma comes around and hits you like a train because you have absolutely no tact, no sensitivity, no foresight that there but by the grace of god can you stand on your silly little pedestal and talk completely out of your ass about something you know nothing about. Thank you, thank you for making the most painful day of my life even more unpleasant. I hope you feel better about yourself, you self righteous, sanctimonious assholes. Maybe one bright side is not being stuck on the tri boards with the likes of you all.

Elsker · February 2011

jenkanne:
I agree- "to a degree"... but you don't know what someone else is facing. For all you know that girl could have been carrying around a baby with no heartbeat.
Walk a mile in someones shoes before you pass judgement.

This reminds me of a book called "I Will Carry You" by Angie Smith that my BFF gave me when I first found out I was pregnant (and terrified of something going wrong). It's her personal account of a situation just like this written by a Christian woman so there are faith based elements to it, but it's still a beautiful story, and an easy read...if you can get through it without crying

Elsker · February 2011

ablou:
I think that what a lot of you don't realize is that all the anti-choice agenda is going to do is kill women. There will be women piercing their cervices with dirty coat hangers, crochet hooks, and knitting needles. There will be women paying people to perform surgery on them in hotel rooms and kitchens, causing them to die from infection and blood loss. And that's not even including deliberate suicide. This country will be littered with dead women who were so desperate to not be pregnant that they had no choice but to die trying.

I think if a woman chooses to have a coat hanger, chrochet hook, or knitting needle poked around inside her; if she chooses to have someone attempt surgery in a hotel room or kitchen; or if she chooses to commit suicide, then it cannot possibly be anyone else's fault...least of all the pro-life agenda. Those are all results of her personal choices, no?

Enami · February 2011

I'm pro-life. If you're having an abortion because you're baby has fatal medical issues, chromosomal abnormalities, is threatening your health, a D&C because of miscarriage, etc..., these to me don't mean you're having an elective abortion, you're having an abortion based on the advice of a doctor, which I feel should be legal and completely covered by all insurance companies. Same with rape. But if you are having an abortion because you choose to, for non-medical reasons, no matter how far along you are, then I feel that is reprehensible. The intended outcome of sex is pregnancy, you can do your best to fight it, but that's what biology has intended for us. Don't have sex if you aren't willing to step-up to the plate and be responsible for your own actions. I don't care what your background is, I don't care about your horrible childhood, I don't care about your pity-party; you're an adult now, start acting like it. Sometimes things are bigger and beyond yourself, and that's just tough.

BettyBookworm · February 2011

epphd:
angelicalopez29:
armybride86:
Lolz @ the flames coming my way, but I disagree with abortion all together. Late or early. I get that some people HAVE to terminate for medical reasons, and even though that makes me sad still, it has to be done. BUT, IN MY EYES, if an abortion doesn't have to be done for a medical reason (this includes the baby's heart not beating, so forth), then I do not agree with it at all. Not that I believe in god (KEEP THOSE FLAMES COMING!), but who is someone else to play "god" and decide rather someone should live or die. They made the choice to open their legs, and what did they think an outcome of that would be? Even the women who are raped, even though I feel for them, and it's a horrible thing, there is adoption. TONS of people all over are looking to adopt! Just my two cents, flame away, I don't care.

Yeah, I'm on your side, I don't really care if people disagree or flame me, I also believe that late or early, it is a nasty awful thing to do to decide weather or not to take the life away from your own flesh and blood. And you know what, I am glad women that perform various abortions by choice, end up being infertile, they deserve it, those lives conceived in their wombs, are human beings from conception, despite the form or level of maturity... flame away, I don't care either.
Wow, you are a piece of fuc_king work. I was on this board just a few weeks ago, pregnant with a miracle pregnancy. I strugged with infertility for five years - not because I had an abortion, but because I was unlucky. I got pregnant with my son after years, thousands of dollars of the gift of an egg donor. So to find I was pregnant again was the thrill of a lifetime.
And that dream was shattered last week with a call from a genetic counselor telling us of massive chromosomal defects with our baby. Today, at the advice of my perinatologist, I had a D&E. I was 12w2d today, almost out of the first tri.
I can tell you without a doubt it was the most painful emotional experience I have ever had. Because I am a rational, mature person, I can say that I hope you never have to experience it.
But I can also say that I hope that Karma comes around and hits you like a train because you have absolutely no tact, no sensitivity, no foresight that there but by the grace of god can you stand on your silly little pedestal and talk completely out of your ass about something you know nothing about. Thank you, thank you for making the most painful day of my life even more unpleasant. I hope you feel better about yourself, you self righteous, sanctimonious assholes. Maybe one bright side is not being stuck on the tri boards with the likes of you all.

I am so very sorry for your loss. I can assure you that not everyone on first tri agrees with the peaches that are quoted above (that believe abortion = infertility = they deserve it). I think what angelicalopez29 said was absolutely awful. I completely disagree.

I really hope that your next baby is healthy. You are in my prayers.

jinx75 · February 2011

Enami:
I'm pro-life. If you're having an abortion because you're baby has fatal medical issues, chromosomal abnormalities, is threatening your health, a D&C because of miscarriage, etc..., these to me don't mean you're having an elective abortion, you're having an abortion based on the advice of a doctor, which I feel should be legal and completely covered by all insurance companies. Same with rape. But if you are having an abortion because you choose to, for non-medical reasons, no matter how far along you are, then I feel that is reprehensible. The intended outcome of sex is pregnancy, you can do your best to fight it, but that's what biology has intended for us. Don't have sex if you aren't willing to step-up to the plate and be responsible for your own actions. I don't care what your background is, I don't care about your horrible childhood, I don't care about your pity-party; you're an adult now, start acting like it. Sometimes things are bigger and beyond yourself, and that's just tough.

I hate to split hairs but you're not pro-life. You're pro-choice. Not saying there is anything wrong with being pro-life or pro-choice I am just saying that you cannot say that you believe all life begins at conception and is therefore entitled to all the legal rights that go along with life (which is the definition of pro-life) and then in the same breath say, except for rape. That "except for" makes you pro-choice.

For me personally, I choose not to take a position on this debate simply because I am not The Creator of life and therefore I cannot say with any certainty what any one woman is going through at any given moment in her life, only her Creator knows. I just thank God for grace and mercy, His, not ours. As human beings we spend so much time tearing each other apart and judging the decisions others have made that we forget that they are hurting and probably need our compassion alot more than they need an iron fist pounding them in the head. When my friend had an elective abortion 13 years ago and needed a ride home from the clinic I didn't shun her because I disagreed with her decision. I drove, 30 miles out of my way to pick her up so that I could show her compassion and caring when she was alone and afraid. She told me later that my compassion towards her meant everything to her in that time. To this day, we are still friends. Spend less time judging others and walk a mile in their shoes, it'll humble you. Oh and please, if you're walking around judging and condemning others, don't call yourself a Christian it's insulting to those of us that truly are. Even Christ, when He was confronted with the adulteress didn't judge her (he showed her compassion) and told her accusors if they were without sin they could cast the first stone. Noone stoned her?! A good lesson for all the "christians."

AnneShirleyBlythe · February 2011

epphd:
angelicalopez29:
armybride86:
Lolz @ the flames coming my way, but I disagree with abortion all together. Late or early. I get that some people HAVE to terminate for medical reasons, and even though that makes me sad still, it has to be done. BUT, IN MY EYES, if an abortion doesn't have to be done for a medical reason (this includes the baby's heart not beating, so forth), then I do not agree with it at all. Not that I believe in god (KEEP THOSE FLAMES COMING!), but who is someone else to play "god" and decide rather someone should live or die. They made the choice to open their legs, and what did they think an outcome of that would be? Even the women who are raped, even though I feel for them, and it's a horrible thing, there is adoption. TONS of people all over are looking to adopt! Just my two cents, flame away, I don't care.

Yeah, I'm on your side, I don't really care if people disagree or flame me, I also believe that late or early, it is a nasty awful thing to do to decide weather or not to take the life away from your own flesh and blood. And you know what, I am glad women that perform various abortions by choice, end up being infertile, they deserve it, those lives conceived in their wombs, are human beings from conception, despite the form or level of maturity... flame away, I don't care either.
Wow, you are a piece of fuc_king work. I was on this board just a few weeks ago, pregnant with a miracle pregnancy. I strugged with infertility for five years - not because I had an abortion, but because I was unlucky. I got pregnant with my son after years, thousands of dollars of the gift of an egg donor. So to find I was pregnant again was the thrill of a lifetime.
And that dream was shattered last week with a call from a genetic counselor telling us of massive chromosomal defects with our baby. Today, at the advice of my perinatologist, I had a D&E. I was 12w2d today, almost out of the first tri.
I can tell you without a doubt it was the most painful emotional experience I have ever had. Because I am a rational, mature person, I can say that I hope you never have to experience it.
But I can also say that I hope that Karma comes around and hits you like a train because you have absolutely no tact, no sensitivity, no foresight that there but by the grace of god can you stand on your silly little pedestal and talk completely out of your ass about something you know nothing about. Thank you, thank you for making the most painful day of my life even more unpleasant. I hope you feel better about yourself, you self righteous, sanctimonious assholes. Maybe one bright side is not being stuck on the tri boards with the likes of you all.

Elizabeth, I am so sorry you had to read any of this garbage, and as always, you said what needed to be said.

ToledoDeux · February 2011

Elsker:
ablou:
I think that what a lot of you don't realize is that all the anti-choice agenda is going to do is kill women. There will be women piercing their cervices with dirty coat hangers, crochet hooks, and knitting needles. There will be women paying people to perform surgery on them in hotel rooms and kitchens, causing them to die from infection and blood loss. And that's not even including deliberate suicide. This country will be littered with dead women who were so desperate to not be pregnant that they had no choice but to die trying.

I think if a woman chooses to have a coat hanger, chrochet hook, or knitting needle poked around inside her; if she chooses to have someone attempt surgery in a hotel room or kitchen; or if she chooses to commit suicide, then it cannot possibly be anyone else's fault...least of all the pro-life agenda. Those are all results of her personal choices, no?

Jesus, what is wrong with you? Do you have absolutely no ability to envision life outside your little bubble, or have any human compassion for others?

Enami · February 2011

jinx75:
Enami:
I'm pro-life. If you're having an abortion because you're baby has fatal medical issues, chromosomal abnormalities, is threatening your health, a D&C because of miscarriage, etc..., these to me don't mean you're having an elective abortion, you're having an abortion based on the advice of a doctor, which I feel should be legal and completely covered by all insurance companies. Same with rape. But if you are having an abortion because you choose to, for non-medical reasons, no matter how far along you are, then I feel that is reprehensible. The intended outcome of sex is pregnancy, you can do your best to fight it, but that's what biology has intended for us. Don't have sex if you aren't willing to step-up to the plate and be responsible for your own actions. I don't care what your background is, I don't care about your horrible childhood, I don't care about your pity-party; you're an adult now, start acting like it. Sometimes things are bigger and beyond yourself, and that's just tough.

I hate to split hairs but you're not pro-life. You're pro-choice. Not saying there is anything wrong with being pro-life or pro-choice I am just saying that you cannot say that you believe all life begins at conception and is therefore entitled to all the legal rights that go along with life (which is the definition of pro-life) and then in the same breath say, except for rape. That "except for" makes you pro-choice.

For me personally, I choose not to take a position on this debate simply because I am not The Creator of life and therefore I cannot say with any certainty what any one woman is going through at any given moment in her life, only her Creator knows. I just thank God for grace and mercy, His, not ours. As human beings we spend so much time tearing each other apart and judging the decisions others have made that we forget that they are hurting and probably need our compassion alot more than they need an iron fist pounding them in the head. When my friend had an elective abortion 13 years ago and needed a ride home from the clinic I didn't shun her because I disagreed with her decision. I drove, 30 miles out of my way to pick her up so that I could show her compassion and caring when she was alone and afraid. She told me later that my compassion towards her meant everything to her in that time. To this day, we are still friends. Spend less time judging others and walk a mile in their shoes, it'll humble you. Oh and please, if you're walking around judging and condemning others, don't call yourself a Christian it's insulting to those of us that truly are. Even Christ, when He was confronted with the adulteress didn't judge her (he showed her compassion) and told her accusors if they were without sin they could cast the first stone. Noone stoned her?! A good lesson for all the "christians."

O, so pro-life has to be pro-baby? I can't be pro-life and be for the life of the mother? EVERY life is sacred, I don't care if it's a 3 week old embryo or a 90-year-old woman, and I believe that sometimes choices have to be made to continue one life over another. Rape, IMO, is one of the most mentally damaging things that could happen to a person, and does leave them scared for life. Like losing your arm. And I think that if being in that situation, carrying a baby, may not be conducive to the healing process that these women will have to go through. I believe mental health is as important as physical health.

I never said we should shun women who've had an abortion, I said the act was reprehensible. As you Christians are so fond of saying, "Hate the sin, love the sinner". This is my first pregnancy; its completely unplanned, I am not ready to be a mom, my entire life plan has changed. I have to leave college for at least a semester, which pushes my graduation date back even further. I have thousands in loans to pay back, not to mention those of my FI. Our plan was to get married next summer (which is still happening), finish our last semester that fall, and move to Seattle, then think about kids when we're around 27. Now its, FI finishes, I go back sometime, and we think about moving all the way across the country, away from all family, with a pre-schooler. I seriously thought for about 2 days on having an abortion, but I realized that, while this is changing my life, its not ending it. I had sex, I knew I could get pregnant, and this is Nature's desired outcome. I can either be the best mother I can, or become a bitter hag, but either way, there's a baby I am responsible for taking over my lower torso.

BTW, not everyone's a Christian, so please don't assume we have the same virtues and laws as you do in your religion.

Enami · February 2011

In response to the original topic, I personally would feel uncomfortable going to a OB that performs elective abortions at her practice. I'm assuming that they're elective, because if it was a patient who was already under her care having one for medical reasons, wouldn't that be in her file and they would know when she called for the appointment?

jinx75 · February 2011

Enami...if you calmed down just a little bit and actually reread what I posted, only the first paragraph was directed at you. I simply stated you cannot say you are prolife (in the context of this debate) and then say except for rape. Do the research prolife (in the context of the abortion debate) "except for" isn't prolife, it's prochoice. I believe I said in my original post that, and I quote, "For me personally, I choose not to take a position on this debate." So stop trying to pick a fight where there isn't one. The latter part of my comment was a general statement directed at all the people in this post hurling insults at one another and wishing infertility on those that choose to abort for whatever reason. It was more directed AT people who call themselves Christians and then judge others decisions. So clearly any intelligent person could see that my post (the first paragraph not withstanding) was a generalized statement and was not directed at any one individual.

BTW-I am a Christian but not part of the "you Christians" that you seem to have so much disdain for. I do not hate anyone's sin but my own nor do I hate sinners. I have enough sin in my own life to keep me busy judging myself for all of eternity.

BriannaHH · February 2011

Elsker:
ablou:
I think that what a lot of you don't realize is that all the anti-choice agenda is going to do is kill women. There will be women piercing their cervices with dirty coat hangers, crochet hooks, and knitting needles. There will be women paying people to perform surgery on them in hotel rooms and kitchens, causing them to die from infection and blood loss. And that's not even including deliberate suicide. This country will be littered with dead women who were so desperate to not be pregnant that they had no choice but to die trying.

I think if a woman chooses to have a coat hanger, chrochet hook, or knitting needle poked around inside her; if she chooses to have someone attempt surgery in a hotel room or kitchen; or if she chooses to commit suicide, then it cannot possibly be anyone else's fault...least of all the pro-life agenda. Those are all results of her personal choices, no?

You are missing the point. Making abortion illegal will NOT stop or end a huge number of abortions. Instead, abortions will go underground. Those with financial means will be able to pay off medical practitioners (as was the case before abortion became legal) and those without money (and scared teenagers) will resort to back alley abortions. Abortions will not stop but access to safe & clean abortions will stop for a huge percentage of the population.

It is naive and misguided to think that there will be a drastic decline in abortion rates just because the procedure is illegal. All that will be accomplished is a higher number of deaths of women getting an unregulated procedure.

I am not going to get into how heartless and devoid of empathy your comment is. It is so cruel that it makes me shudder.

taratru · February 2011

Elsker:

I think if a woman chooses to have a coat hanger, chrochet hook, or knitting needle poked around inside her; if she chooses to have someone attempt surgery in a hotel room or kitchen; or if she chooses to commit suicide, then it cannot possibly be anyone else's fault...least of all the pro-life agenda. Those are all results of her personal choices, no?

There's a lot of fuccked up in this thread, but you just made me want to throw up and then punch you. You realize that what you just said is both illogical AND inhumane?

angelicalopez29 · February 2011

Enami:
I'm pro-life. If you're having an abortion because you're baby has fatal medical issues, chromosomal abnormalities, is threatening your health, a D&C because of miscarriage, etc..., these to me don't mean you're having an elective abortion, you're having an abortion based on the advice of a doctor, which I feel should be legal and completely covered by all insurance companies. Same with rape. But if you are having an abortion because you choose to, for non-medical reasons, no matter how far along you are, then I feel that is reprehensible. The intended outcome of sex is pregnancy, you can do your best to fight it, but that's what biology has intended for us. Don't have sex if you aren't willing to step-up to the plate and be responsible for your own actions. I don't care what your background is, I don't care about your horrible childhood, I don't care about your pity-party; you're an adult now, start acting like it. Sometimes things are bigger and beyond yourself, and that's just tough.

Yes

Its so odd that all of you who defend abortion, know what pregnancy is about, and know that the babies you gave birth to, were alive from conception, so its better to be selfish and think only about what I am going to suffer, and choose to kill what is inside of you, than to face your responsibilities for having unprotected sex. That is just so immature, childish, selfish, irresponsible, and completely reprehensible....

msmerymac · February 2011

angelicalopez29:
Enami:
I'm pro-life. If you're having an abortion because you're baby has fatal medical issues, chromosomal abnormalities, is threatening your health, a D&C because of miscarriage, etc..., these to me don't mean you're having an elective abortion, you're having an abortion based on the advice of a doctor, which I feel should be legal and completely covered by all insurance companies. Same with rape. But if you are having an abortion because you choose to, for non-medical reasons, no matter how far along you are, then I feel that is reprehensible. The intended outcome of sex is pregnancy, you can do your best to fight it, but that's what biology has intended for us. Don't have sex if you aren't willing to step-up to the plate and be responsible for your own actions. I don't care what your background is, I don't care about your horrible childhood, I don't care about your pity-party; you're an adult now, start acting like it. Sometimes things are bigger and beyond yourself, and that's just tough.

Its so odd that all of you who defend abortion, know what pregnancy is about, and know that the babies you gave birth to, were alive from conception, so its better to be selfish and think only about what I am going to suffer, and choose to kill what is inside of you, than to face your responsibilities for having unprotected sex. That is just so immature, childish, selfish, irresponsible, and completely reprehensible....

I find it hard to believe you think pregnancy should be a punishment for having sex. THAT is reprehensible. Sometimes taking responsibility means getting an abortion if you know you can't raise the child yourself.

dmogmo · February 2011

angelicalopez29:
Enami:
I'm pro-life. If you're having an abortion because you're baby has fatal medical issues, chromosomal abnormalities, is threatening your health, a D&C because of miscarriage, etc..., these to me don't mean you're having an elective abortion, you're having an abortion based on the advice of a doctor, which I feel should be legal and completely covered by all insurance companies. Same with rape. But if you are having an abortion because you choose to, for non-medical reasons, no matter how far along you are, then I feel that is reprehensible. The intended outcome of sex is pregnancy, you can do your best to fight it, but that's what biology has intended for us. Don't have sex if you aren't willing to step-up to the plate and be responsible for your own actions. I don't care what your background is, I don't care about your horrible childhood, I don't care about your pity-party; you're an adult now, start acting like it. Sometimes things are bigger and beyond yourself, and that's just tough.

Its so odd that all of you who defend abortion, know what pregnancy is about, and know that the babies you gave birth to, were alive from conception, so its better to be selfish and think only about what I am going to suffer, and choose to kill what is inside of you, than to face your responsibilities for having unprotected sex. That is just so immature, childish, selfish, irresponsible, and completely reprehensible....

Oh get over yourself. Having a baby has made me more appreciative of the importance of choice.

angelicalopez29 · February 2011

taratru:
Elsker:

I think if a woman chooses to have a coat hanger, chrochet hook, or knitting needle poked around inside her; if she chooses to have someone attempt surgery in a hotel room or kitchen; or if she chooses to commit suicide, then it cannot possibly be anyone else's fault...least of all the pro-life agenda. Those are all results of her personal choices, no?

There's a lot of fuccked up in this thread, but you just made me want to throw up and then punch you. You realize that what you just said is both illogical AND inhumane?

and its not inhumane to kill your unborn baby? SERIOUSLY WHAT THA F*CK

angelicalopez29 · February 2011

diana82:
angelicalopez29:
Enami:
I'm pro-life. If you're having an abortion because you're baby has fatal medical issues, chromosomal abnormalities, is threatening your health, a D&C because of miscarriage, etc..., these to me don't mean you're having an elective abortion, you're having an abortion based on the advice of a doctor, which I feel should be legal and completely covered by all insurance companies. Same with rape. But if you are having an abortion because you choose to, for non-medical reasons, no matter how far along you are, then I feel that is reprehensible. The intended outcome of sex is pregnancy, you can do your best to fight it, but that's what biology has intended for us. Don't have sex if you aren't willing to step-up to the plate and be responsible for your own actions. I don't care what your background is, I don't care about your horrible childhood, I don't care about your pity-party; you're an adult now, start acting like it. Sometimes things are bigger and beyond yourself, and that's just tough.

Its so odd that all of you who defend abortion, know what pregnancy is about, and know that the babies you gave birth to, were alive from conception, so its better to be selfish and think only about what I am going to suffer, and choose to kill what is inside of you, than to face your responsibilities for having unprotected sex. That is just so immature, childish, selfish, irresponsible, and completely reprehensible....
Oh get over yourself. Having a baby has made me more appreciative of the importance of choice.

good for you

dmogmo · February 2011

angelicalopez29:
diana82:
angelicalopez29:
Enami:
I'm pro-life. If you're having an abortion because you're baby has fatal medical issues, chromosomal abnormalities, is threatening your health, a D&C because of miscarriage, etc..., these to me don't mean you're having an elective abortion, you're having an abortion based on the advice of a doctor, which I feel should be legal and completely covered by all insurance companies. Same with rape. But if you are having an abortion because you choose to, for non-medical reasons, no matter how far along you are, then I feel that is reprehensible. The intended outcome of sex is pregnancy, you can do your best to fight it, but that's what biology has intended for us. Don't have sex if you aren't willing to step-up to the plate and be responsible for your own actions. I don't care what your background is, I don't care about your horrible childhood, I don't care about your pity-party; you're an adult now, start acting like it. Sometimes things are bigger and beyond yourself, and that's just tough.

Its so odd that all of you who defend abortion, know what pregnancy is about, and know that the babies you gave birth to, were alive from conception, so its better to be selfish and think only about what I am going to suffer, and choose to kill what is inside of you, than to face your responsibilities for having unprotected sex. That is just so immature, childish, selfish, irresponsible, and completely reprehensible....
Oh get over yourself. Having a baby has made me more appreciative of the importance of choice.
good for you

Yes, it is good for me. What's not good are lunatics who think they have the right to legislate medical procedures and what a woman does with her own body.

Gummybear · February 2011

angelicalopez29:

Enami:
I'm pro-life. If you're having an abortion because you're baby has fatal medical issues, chromosomal abnormalities, is threatening your health, a D&C because of miscarriage, etc..., these to me don't mean you're having an elective abortion, you're having an abortion based on the advice of a doctor, which I feel should be legal and completely covered by all insurance companies. Same with rape. But if you are having an abortion because you choose to, for non-medical reasons, no matter how far along you are, then I feel that is reprehensible. The intended outcome of sex is pregnancy, you can do your best to fight it, but that's what biology has intended for us. Don't have sex if you aren't willing to step-up to the plate and be responsible for your own actions. I don't care what your background is, I don't care about your horrible childhood, I don't care about your pity-party; you're an adult now, start acting like it. Sometimes things are bigger and beyond yourself, and that's just tough.

Its so odd that all of you who defend abortion, know what pregnancy is about, and know that the babies you gave birth to, were alive from conception, so its better to be selfish and think only about what I am going to suffer, and choose to kill what is inside of you, than to face your responsibilities for having unprotected sex. That is just so immature, childish, selfish, irresponsible, and completely reprehensible....

This is exactly why it needs to remain a CHOICE and why good Dr.s need to offer women the safe option. It's great that you believe that. Really, I have nothing against it. But why should YOUR opinion be made law? Why should an important option be taken away from millions of women who may not agree with you? It makes no sense at all.

Enami · February 2011

jinx75:
BTW-I am a Christian but not part of the "you Christians" that you seem to have so much disdain for. I do not hate anyone's sin but my own nor do I hate sinners. I have enough sin in my own life to keep me busy judging myself for all of eternity.

Really? Because you seem to be getting all over the women on the opposite side of the fence from you... I disdain Christians that separate themselves from other Christians. There's plenty of CR's that do idiotic stuff that I disagree with, but I don't go out saying "I'm not one of those CRs".

Enami · February 2011

Gummybear:
angelicalopez29:

Enami:
I'm pro-life. If you're having an abortion because you're baby has fatal medical issues, chromosomal abnormalities, is threatening your health, a D&C because of miscarriage, etc..., these to me don't mean you're having an elective abortion, you're having an abortion based on the advice of a doctor, which I feel should be legal and completely covered by all insurance companies. Same with rape. But if you are having an abortion because you choose to, for non-medical reasons, no matter how far along you are, then I feel that is reprehensible. The intended outcome of sex is pregnancy, you can do your best to fight it, but that's what biology has intended for us. Don't have sex if you aren't willing to step-up to the plate and be responsible for your own actions. I don't care what your background is, I don't care about your horrible childhood, I don't care about your pity-party; you're an adult now, start acting like it. Sometimes things are bigger and beyond yourself, and that's just tough.

Its so odd that all of you who defend abortion, know what pregnancy is about, and know that the babies you gave birth to, were alive from conception, so its better to be selfish and think only about what I am going to suffer, and choose to kill what is inside of you, than to face your responsibilities for having unprotected sex. That is just so immature, childish, selfish, irresponsible, and completely reprehensible....

This is exactly why it needs to remain a CHOICE and why good Dr.s need to offer women the safe option. It's great that you believe that. Really, I have nothing against it. But why should YOUR opinion be made law? Why should an important option be taken away from millions of women who may not agree with you? It makes no sense at all.

Who said anything about law? I don't care if Roe v. Wade stands up until this country falls to the ground. I'm talking about personal responsibility (not punishment) and personal morality. Yes, I find elective abortions horrible, and one of the worst things a person could do. That is my opinion, and I will defend it. I don't think there should be any laws regarding abortion, whether for or against. I also think that parents need to step up and be parents, and quit relying on outside influences to raise their children for them. I think people should understand that biologically, we have sex to conceive, and you can do your best to fight Nature, but that's going against what we, as humans, were built to do. If you aren't willing to raise a child, don't willingly have sex. Its not that hard.

Gummybear · February 2011

Enami:
Gummybear:
angelicalopez29:

Enami:
I'm pro-life. If you're having an abortion because you're baby has fatal medical issues, chromosomal abnormalities, is threatening your health, a D&C because of miscarriage, etc..., these to me don't mean you're having an elective abortion, you're having an abortion based on the advice of a doctor, which I feel should be legal and completely covered by all insurance companies. Same with rape. But if you are having an abortion because you choose to, for non-medical reasons, no matter how far along you are, then I feel that is reprehensible. The intended outcome of sex is pregnancy, you can do your best to fight it, but that's what biology has intended for us. Don't have sex if you aren't willing to step-up to the plate and be responsible for your own actions. I don't care what your background is, I don't care about your horrible childhood, I don't care about your pity-party; you're an adult now, start acting like it. Sometimes things are bigger and beyond yourself, and that's just tough.

Its so odd that all of you who defend abortion, know what pregnancy is about, and know that the babies you gave birth to, were alive from conception, so its better to be selfish and think only about what I am going to suffer, and choose to kill what is inside of you, than to face your responsibilities for having unprotected sex. That is just so immature, childish, selfish, irresponsible, and completely reprehensible....

This is exactly why it needs to remain a CHOICE and why good Dr.s need to offer women the safe option. It's great that you believe that. Really, I have nothing against it. But why should YOUR opinion be made law? Why should an important option be taken away from millions of women who may not agree with you? It makes no sense at all.

Who said anything about law? I don't care if Roe v. Wade stands up until this country falls to the ground. I'm talking about personal responsibility (not punishment) and personal morality. Yes, I find elective abortions horrible, and one of the worst things a person could do. That is my opinion, and I will defend it. I don't think there should be any laws regarding abortion, whether for or against. I also think that parents need to step up and be parents, and quit relying on outside influences to raise their children for them. I think people should understand that biologically, we have sex to conceive, and you can do your best to fight Nature, but that's going against what we, as humans, were built to do. If you aren't willing to raise a child, don't willingly have sex. Its not that hard.

Fair enough. Like I said, everyone is entitled to an opinion and who am I to say anyone else is wrong.

Back to the OP though, as long as it's legal, why shouldn't it be available in safe, clean environments where women can feel comfortable, regardless of why they choose to end a pregnancy? I don't understand the outrage that the Dr. performs them -- it's part of womens' health services and is a legal procedure that every woman of reproductive age is entitled to. It's the only humane way.

I guess I understand the other side, as twisted as I think it is though. I for one would probably eliminate a Dr. who refused to provide such services based on his or her moral beliefs.

jinx75 · February 2011

Enami:

jinx75:
BTW-I am a Christian but not part of the "you Christians" that you seem to have so much disdain for. I do not hate anyone's sin but my own nor do I hate sinners. I have enough sin in my own life to keep me busy judging myself for all of eternity.

Really? Because you seem to be getting all over the women on the opposite side of the fence from you... I disdain Christians that separate themselves from other Christians. There's plenty of CR's that do idiotic stuff that I disagree with, but I don't go out saying "I'm not one of those CRs".

Why am I even trying to reason with you?! You completely missed the point. No I am not getting all over anyone...reread my original post all I was saying is that people need to have compassion for one another, not judge each other. I'm not separating myself from anyone but there are plenty of people out there who claim to be "Christian" meaning Christ-like who are nothing of the sort. Just look at Westboro Baptist Church (don't even get me started on them). Again you are picking a fight with me where there is none. I said in my original post that I took no official position on the matter of abortion rights so how could I be "getting all over the women on the opposite side of the fence" as me if I have no position on the issue? I was asking everyone to try not to judge where anyone stands on an issue and just try to be compassionate for what a person is going through. How did you miss that?

Elsker · February 2011

BriannaHH:
Elsker:

ablou:
I think that what a lot of you don't realize is that all the anti-choice agenda is going to do is kill women. There will be women piercing their cervices with dirty coat hangers, crochet hooks, and knitting needles. There will be women paying people to perform surgery on them in hotel rooms and kitchens, causing them to die from infection and blood loss. And that's not even including deliberate suicide. This country will be littered with dead women who were so desperate to not be pregnant that they had no choice but to die trying.

I think if a woman chooses to have a coat hanger, chrochet hook, or knitting needle poked around inside her; if she chooses to have someone attempt surgery in a hotel room or kitchen; or if she chooses to commit suicide, then it cannot possibly be anyone else's fault...least of all the pro-life agenda. Those are all results of her personal choices, no?

You are missing the point. Making abortion illegal will NOT stop or end a huge number of abortions. Instead, abortions will go underground. Those with financial means will be able to pay off medical practitioners (as was the case before abortion became legal) and those without money (and scared teenagers) will resort to back alley abortions. Abortions will not stop but access to safe & clean abortions will stop for a huge percentage of the population.

It is naive and misguided to think that there will be a drastic decline in abortion rates just because the procedure is illegal. All that will be accomplished is a higher number of deaths of women getting an unregulated procedure.

I am not going to get into how heartless and devoid of empathy your comment is. It is so cruel that it makes me shudder.

I can understand that you're angry because I disagree with you, but my disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm missing your point, heartless, naive, or misguided. I just have a very different point of view than you do.

When my mother was 16 she was raped, and a pregnancy resulted. She had an abortion. In her words, it was the most heartless thing she'd ever done. She fully regretted it, and when we were old enough she made sure my sister and I knew that there were emotional consequences to the decisions you make, even as a teenager. When my mom found out she was pregnant with me she was 19, out of work, and scared to death. Her doctor, trying to be kind and considerate and full of empathy, tried to convince her that another abortion was the best thing. He even went as far as to schedule an abortion to "take care" of me, for her. In stead of "taking care" of "it", she got back into school, got a job, and got her life together. She did all of that living out of a car with no family to help her. I see her as proof that there is no such thing as "no choice". A few years ago I had a chance meeting in a grocery store with that doctor, and can you imagine the look on his face when my mother introduced me to him? Bragged to him I'd been the first to graduate college in our family, that I'd actually saved lives as a teenager, and that I worked with abused children and in law enforcement? People like me are destroyed every day, before they even have a chance to prove their worth. I was one of the lucky ones.

My experiences have lead me to a very different opinion than you on this, but that does not mean I've been made heartless, or naive, or any of the other names I, and people like me, have been called. Yes, people will continue to do stupid things to get their "problems taken care of", and they may hurt themselves doing those things regardless if abortion is made illegal or not. I understand that some women are put in terrible situations against their will; I'm not numb to that, my mother reminded me of it every day growing up. I am saying, though, that it is a matter of choice, which pro-choicers so strongly fight for, that would result in the kinds of actions you listed. I was pointing out that having someone poke around inside you with a sharp instrument, or ending ones own life, etc. are choices that a person would have to make on their own in order for them to happen. I don't think that's an untrue statement, and I'm sorry that you disagree, but I find it silly to play the blame-game on something as serious as that.

Elsker · February 2011

taratru:
Elsker:

I think if a woman chooses to have a coat hanger, chrochet hook, or knitting needle poked around inside her; if she chooses to have someone attempt surgery in a hotel room or kitchen; or if she chooses to commit suicide, then it cannot possibly be anyone else's fault...least of all the pro-life agenda. Those are all results of her personal choices, no?

There's a lot of fuccked up in this thread, but you just made me want to throw up and then punch you. You realize that what you just said is both illogical AND inhumane?

No, I didn't realize it was illogical to say that someone who chose to take their own life made a choice. Nor did I realize that someone who chooses to ask a person to poke around inside them with a sharp stick, wasn't making a choice...I thought that choosing to do those things was a choice. My bad, I probably deserve a punch then . BTW, those aren't things I just came up with, they're things that someone else had listed that just didn't make sense to me...so if it's the fact that they were addressed, maybe you should punch the original poster, too?

BriannaHH · February 2011

Elsker:

I can understand that you're angry because I disagree with you, but my disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm missing your point, heartless, naive, or misguided. I just have a very different point of view than you do.

When my mother was 16 she was raped, and a pregnancy resulted. She had an abortion. In her words, it was the most heartless thing she'd ever done. She fully regretted it, and when we were old enough she made sure my sister and I knew that there were emotional consequences to the decisions you make, even as a teenager. When my mom found out she was pregnant with me she was 19, out of work, and scared to death. Her doctor, trying to be kind and considerate and full of empathy, tried to convince her that another abortion was the best thing. He even went as far as to schedule an abortion to "take care" of me, for her. In stead of "taking care" of "it", she got back into school, got a job, and got her life together. She did all of that living out of a car with no family to help her. I see her as proof that there is no such thing as "no choice". A few years ago I had a chance meeting in a grocery store with that doctor, and can you imagine the look on his face when my mother introduced me to him? Bragged to him I'd been the first to graduate college in our family, that I'd actually saved lives as a teenager, and that I worked with abused children and in law enforcement? People like me are destroyed every day, before they even have a chance to prove their worth. I was one of the lucky ones.

My experiences have lead me to a very different opinion than you on this, but that does not mean I've been made heartless, or naive, or any of the other names I, and people like me, have been called. Yes, people will continue to do stupid things to get their "problems taken care of", and they may hurt themselves doing those things regardless if abortion is made illegal or not. I understand that some women are put in terrible situations against their will; I'm not numb to that, my mother reminded me of it every day growing up. I am saying, though, that it is a matter of choice, which pro-choicers so strongly fight for, that would result in the kinds of actions you listed. I was pointing out that having someone poke around inside you with a sharp instrument, or ending ones own life, etc. are choices that a person would have to make on their own in order for them to happen. I don't think that's an untrue statement, and I'm sorry that you disagree, but I find it silly to play the blame-game on something as serious as that.

Again, you are missing the point. Your experience lead you to not believe in abortion and that is fine. But that is YOUR experience NOT everyone's. That is why it is important to have a choice.

There are no clear cut cookie cutter experiences or answers in life which is why it is important that each woman have the freedom and autonomy to do what is best for her and her family.

Not everyone who has had an abortion regrets it the way that your mother did.

As for the bolded statement above, it just shows your inability to see outside of your own experience. For some women, the mental anguish and anxiety of having an unwanted child is unbearable (for a variety of reasons). It does not sound like you can even begin to attempt to fathom what that must feel like because you can only see things from your own perspective.

heather_09_15_07 · February 2011

BriannaHH:
Elsker:

I can understand that you're angry because I disagree with you, but my disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm missing your point, heartless, naive, or misguided. I just have a very different point of view than you do.

When my mother was 16 she was raped, and a pregnancy resulted. She had an abortion. In her words, it was the most heartless thing she'd ever done. She fully regretted it, and when we were old enough she made sure my sister and I knew that there were emotional consequences to the decisions you make, even as a teenager. When my mom found out she was pregnant with me she was 19, out of work, and scared to death. Her doctor, trying to be kind and considerate and full of empathy, tried to convince her that another abortion was the best thing. He even went as far as to schedule an abortion to "take care" of me, for her. In stead of "taking care" of "it", she got back into school, got a job, and got her life together. She did all of that living out of a car with no family to help her. I see her as proof that there is no such thing as "no choice". A few years ago I had a chance meeting in a grocery store with that doctor, and can you imagine the look on his face when my mother introduced me to him? Bragged to him I'd been the first to graduate college in our family, that I'd actually saved lives as a teenager, and that I worked with abused children and in law enforcement? People like me are destroyed every day, before they even have a chance to prove their worth. I was one of the lucky ones.

My experiences have lead me to a very different opinion than you on this, but that does not mean I've been made heartless, or naive, or any of the other names I, and people like me, have been called. Yes, people will continue to do stupid things to get their "problems taken care of", and they may hurt themselves doing those things regardless if abortion is made illegal or not. I understand that some women are put in terrible situations against their will; I'm not numb to that, my mother reminded me of it every day growing up. I am saying, though, that it is a matter of choice, which pro-choicers so strongly fight for, that would result in the kinds of actions you listed. I was pointing out that having someone poke around inside you with a sharp instrument, or ending ones own life, etc. are choices that a person would have to make on their own in order for them to happen. I don't think that's an untrue statement, and I'm sorry that you disagree, but I find it silly to play the blame-game on something as serious as that.

Again, you are missing the point. Your experience lead you to not believe in abortion and that is fine. But that is YOUR experience NOT everyone's. That is why it is important to have a choice.

There are no clear cut cookie cutter experiences or answers in life which is why it is important that each woman have the freedom and autonomy to do what is best for her and her family.

Not everyone who has had an abortion regrets it the way that your mother did.

As for the bolded statement above, it just shows your inability to see outside of your own experience. For some women, the mental anguish and anxiety of having an unwanted child is unbearable (for a variety of reasons). It does not sound like you can even begin to attempt to fathom what that must feel like because you can only see things from your own perspective.

Ditto Brianna. Though I do applaud your Mom's strength, not everyone could do what she did.

ToledoDeux · February 2011

Elsker:
I can understand that you're angry because I disagree with you, but my disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm missing your point, heartless, naive, or misguided. I just have a very different point of view than you do.

When my mother was 16 she was raped, and a pregnancy resulted. She had an abortion. In her words, it was the most heartless thing she'd ever done. She fully regretted it, and when we were old enough she made sure my sister and I knew that there were emotional consequences to the decisions you make, even as a teenager. When my mom found out she was pregnant with me she was 19, out of work, and scared to death. Her doctor, trying to be kind and considerate and full of empathy, tried to convince her that another abortion was the best thing. He even went as far as to schedule an abortion to "take care" of me, for her. In stead of "taking care" of "it", she got back into school, got a job, and got her life together. She did all of that living out of a car with no family to help her. I see her as proof that there is no such thing as "no choice". A few years ago I had a chance meeting in a grocery store with that doctor, and can you imagine the look on his face when my mother introduced me to him? Bragged to him I'd been the first to graduate college in our family, that I'd actually saved lives as a teenager, and that I worked with abused children and in law enforcement? People like me are destroyed every day, before they even have a chance to prove their worth. I was one of the lucky ones.

My experiences have lead me to a very different opinion than you on this, but that does not mean I've been made heartless, or naive, or any of the other names I, and people like me, have been called. Yes, people will continue to do stupid things to get their "problems taken care of", and they may hurt themselves doing those things regardless if abortion is made illegal or not. I understand that some women are put in terrible situations against their will; I'm not numb to that, my mother reminded me of it every day growing up. I am saying, though, that it is a matter of choice, which pro-choicers so strongly fight for, that would result in the kinds of actions you listed. I was pointing out that having someone poke around inside you with a sharp instrument, or ending ones own life, etc. are choices that a person would have to make on their own in order for them to happen. I don't think that's an untrue statement, and I'm sorry that you disagree, but I find it silly to play the blame-game on something as serious as that.

Wow. Has the Lifetime movie about this been made yet? Can't wait to see it.

Elsker · February 2011

For clarification, I only addressed this list, it didn't make sense to me:

"I think that what a lot of you don't realize is that all the anti-choice agenda is going to do is kill women. there will be women piercing their cervices with dirty coat hangers, crochet hooks, and knitting needles. There will be women paying people to perform surgery on them in hotel rooms and kitchens, causing them to die from infection and blood loss. And that's not even including deliberate suicide. This country will be littered with dead women who were so desperate to not be pregnant that they had no choice but to die trying. "

Promise I get what you're saying; that taking away safe abortions could lead to people seeking out unsafe means of having abortions; I'm not sure you're getting what I'm saying, though. I just don't think it's realistic to say that a woman who chooses to do any of the items listed could reasonably say she was forced to. If someone chooses to commit suicide, or chooses to have unsanitary abortions, they are responsible for the choices that are made, their choices are NOT the fault of anyone else or anyone else's agenda. Yes, there are exceptions and special situations that result in abortion, but if it were to be illegalized, I would hope that more women who otherwise rely on the procedure would find safer and more preventative alternatives, rather than ending their lives or having dirty instruments poked inside them.

Obviously I'm pro-life, but I wasn't arguing against abortion with my comment, just pointing out that it's silly to put the blame of a woman's personal choice on anyone else. There has to be a better argument than, "If you don't let me do it, I'll hurt myself." That's the kind of thing manipulative teenage girls say, and not the way real women think. If this unlikely illegalization of abortion ever occurs, lobby for free birth control (already available), sex education (already available), or free access to any number of alternatives like the day after pill (I assume this isn't the kind of abortion that would be illegalized), or adoption. But don't make the excuse that it's someone elses fault to take the focus off of the person who actually chose to do such senseless things.

Want a personalized experience?

This is so bizarre to me.

Re: This is so bizarre to me.

Choose Another Board

Search Boards