:Dumps can of worms all over the floor:

Ciconrad · August 2010

mlf625:
two-pink-shoes:

Including when he's 18 years old. He's my baby and I DO want him to know I'll always be there.

::snort::

Pretty sure your 18 year old will be too busy reading Playboy under the covers to want his mommy rubbing his back.

Teenage boys only look at porn if they CIO'd. Dr Sears says so. DUH!

RedWingsFan · August 2010

robinsokj:
Dawley82:
Ciconrad:
Dawley82:
amykins1283:
Dawley82:

Learned helplessness is a result of the CIO method. Babies learn that their cries will not be responded to so they quit crying. Parents think it works because their babies now STTN! If they didn't STTN, surely they would wake up crying right? No. Just because your baby who was forced to CIO seems to STTN, doesn't mean they really are. They just wake up and know not to cry because their cries will be ignored. That's learned helplessness.

To each their own and every baby and parent is differet, but IMO CIO sucks no matter how gentle of a method you use. Humans are not capable of munipulation until they are aruond 4-5 years of age. Babies cry to communicate, not to manipulate. If your baby wakes up crying, they need something. Whether they are hungry or don't know how to fall back asleep is up for you to determine, not ignore. There are ways to teach your baby to STTN without using any form of CIO. You have to gradually teach your baby that they can fall asleep without their normal sleep cues such as the boob/pacifier/etc. Most parents fail to realize that STTN means a 5-hour stretch and that some babies do in fact need to eat in the middle of the night, especially BF babies.

Um...I've been working with kids of all ages for the past 11 years. I can tell you that kids begin to learn how to manipulate adults to get what they want much earlier than 4 or 5 years old.

Well you'd better call Dr. Sears and tell him he's wrong.

Bwahaha. I love people who act like Dr. Sears has a lockdown on all child psychology matters. I know he's respected and clearly done his research and his opinions should be considered. But....guess what, people, including other pediatricians and child experts disagree with him. Shocking, I know!

It is pointless trying to talk intelligently to such ignorant people. Back to the AP board I go. Have fun with your screwed up kids.

So, everyone who disagrees with you is now ignorant? Thats neat

::Removes fork from eye (inserted due to ridiculousness of this post) to type::

This - I guess I missed the memo that Dr. Sears was the ONLY source for parenting and is not to be disagreed with.

::Reinserts fork into eye::

lite-bright · August 2010

Ciconrad:
carney09:
bb80:

I never really understood the whole "self soothe"thing. We as adults have things that calm us down. Whether it be a glass of wine, talking to a friend, or watching trashy TV, we know what works for us. Babies, on the other hand..know one thing, their parents. I think that if someone put me in a huge place i couldn't escape from and was upset, i would feel abandoned...guess my opinion is extreme on here..oh well

Or perhaps lying in a dark room and just relaxing...which is what an infant would do. Or they would learn to suck on their hands, or suck a binky, or maybe coo for a few minutes to release energy...why would this be bad? You're teaching them there are other ways to be soothed other than their parents. No, they don't know this instinctively. Which is why its called sleep training.

EXACTLY!!! My son learned "ok, I don't need mommy to rock me for 30 minutes to go back to sleep." He learned that gently rubbing his head on the sheet and sucking his hand was soothing enough to go back to sleep. And since I was in there every 5 mintues saying "baby, I just want you to sleep. I love you", I doubt he felt I abandoned him.
And part of the reason I get defensive is because 2 years ago I was a desperate mama with a 6 month old baby who hadn't slept more than 2 hour stretch in nearly 2 months. DH and I were at a breaking point. DS was so overtired and miserable all day long. I woke up every morning (on 3-4-ish hours of sleep) thinking "I can't do this today". I didn't know what to do.
I researched CIO and felt we needed it but I'd get on here and see all these judgey statements (it's learned helplessness, it's lazy parenting, didn't you know before you had ababy you wouldn't get much sleep) and be so guilty and thinking I was an even worse mom for considering it. Finally, DH was like "we're doing it" and I agreed. It really was the absolutely best decision. I have absolutely no regrets.
I look back and realize how difficult a choice it was and how close to a breaking point I was and I want other first time moms in that position to know that some people think you are making the right choice if you decide CIO is right for you.

Well said. I was in the same boat -- only DD1 was getting up every hour at six months and not napping more than 30-45 minutes. She was so overtired that she could *not* get restful sleep the way we were going, no matter how much I soothed, nursed, etc. CIO didn't get her to STTN (and I didn't expect it to), but it did get her back to the four-hour stretches that she was doing before she hit the four-month wakeful. It broke the awful cycle that she was in, and she was more rested and happier, and I didn't lose my mind.

Now, as a toddler, she sleeps well in her own bed, but knows that whenever she needs us in the night, Mama and Dadda come.

I also agree with robinsokj (sp?) and wonder what some of you will do when you have two (or more) children crying and needing you at the same time. Do you think one will turn out more "screwed up" because you can't soothe every cry immediately like you did when you only had one?

And along those lines, every mom of two+ that I've asked for advice IRL has said to respond to your toddler first as much as possible -- because unlike an infant, they remember who was cared for first, and can come to resent the baby if Mama is always responding to the littler one before them.

Hip2Bsquare · August 2010

Ciconrad:
Dawley82:
Ciconrad:
Dawley82:
amykins1283:
Dawley82:

Um...I've been working with kids of all ages for the past 11 years. I can tell you that kids begin to learn how to manipulate adults to get what they want much earlier than 4 or 5 years old.

Well you'd better call Dr. Sears and tell him he's wrong.

Bwahaha. I love people who act like Dr. Sears has a lockdown on all child psychology matters. I know he's respected and clearly done his research and his opinions should be considered. But....guess what, people, including other pediatricians and child experts disagree with him. Shocking, I know!

It is pointless trying to talk intelligently to such ignorant people. Back to the AP board I go. Have fun with your screwed up kids.

Uh ok. Buh Bye. Your "Best Mom in the World" prize will be mailed tomorrow.

Damn I don't CIO yet because DD is too young. I think if DD continues to have a hard time falling asleep then I will be open to try anything in a few months. I however, think the comment about others having screwed up kids to be a bit harsh and wrong. It's comments like that make the people that AP look like judgmental freaks IMO. That comment was so unnecessary and unintelligent as well.

MelonieK · August 2010

Ciconrad:

Teenage boys only look at porn if they CIO'd. Dr Sears says so. DUH!

:snort:

Damn, you're on a roll today! Please carry on. I haven't laughed this much in a long time.

sar17 · August 2010

katesmom73:
I don't think it's one or the other. I've read that some babies need to cry in order to make themselves tired...but I read this a while ago so I have no idea the age of the baby they were referring to.

LOL Nice.

Timeg · August 2010

walkerkeli:
or they just get too tired to cry anymore. I'm with you, but to each their own. I don't care if other people do it. It's just not for us. At least not yet. After a certain amount of time goes by, I think it's ok, because LO has developed a sense that you are there for them, but they can't always get what they want...doesn't mean you don't love them/aren't there for them. That being said, I don't think they know that well enough before at least 6 months to be doing CIO. Just my opinion.

I completely concur with you on this!

My dad is constantly pusning me to let my nearly-six month old daughter CIO while I eat or whatever. He thinks I'm "spoling her with touch." I don't know how that's possible - babies need to know their mommies are there and touch is the best way to communicate this. Furthermore, I don't think my baby has the capacity to understand why I'm not responding to her needs.

We didn't let my oldest cry for long until she was nearly a year, but we felt that, at that point, she understood a little more and could know that we're still there for her. And it only took one night to teach her that she would be okay in her own bed/room. We would go in, comfort her, lay her back down, and let her fuss for a little bit (10-15 minutes and then go back into her). After 2 hours, she was asleep and has loved her own room since.

So, I guess I'm semi-okay with CIO if the child is old enough to understand and learn from the experience (not just tire). And, for the record, it wasn't easy doing it with my 11 1/2 month old. I was desperate, however, to get her in her own room since we were expecting #2 and didn't want two babies in our bed/room.

bakedlaurabean · August 2010

I feel like this post was prompted by my earlier post about trying CIO at naptime.

I think I taught my son a valuable lesson today when I let him cry/fuss it out at naptime. He learned that he can put himself to sleep without mommy there.

If you have read any of my posts, you know I have an extremely fussy baby. I was frustrated that he wouldn't sleep when I knew he was tired (yes, I looked for early sleepy signs and whatever else) and our usual naptime routine wasn't working. The fact that he cried LESS in his crib than when he was in my arms, lets me know I made the right decision. I am proud of him that he was able to do it and that his cries were never distressed. I hope this is a sign he is growing up and will be able to do this for naptime more often with less fuss.

I used to hang out on the AP board before I had my baby. It's amazing how much changes once you're actually in a situation.

mrs.Awoods · August 2010

bb80:
katesmom73:

I don't think it's one or the other. I've read that some babies need to cry in order to make themselves tired...but I read this a while ago so I have no idea the age of the baby they were referring to.

even if they "need to cry in order to make themselves tired"...which i have never heard...why can't they cry in their mom's arms? at least they know that mommy is there for them that way

Ahh. I lurve you... and that is all.

marykaybride · August 2010

Dawley82:
amykins1283:
Dawley82:

Learned helplessness is a result of the CIO method. Babies learn that their cries will not be responded to so they quit crying. Parents think it works because their babies now STTN! If they didn't STTN, surely they would wake up crying right? No. Just because your baby who was forced to CIO seems to STTN, doesn't mean they really are. They just wake up and know not to cry because their cries will be ignored. That's learned helplessness.

To each their own and every baby and parent is differet, but IMO CIO sucks no matter how gentle of a method you use. Humans are not capable of munipulation until they are aruond 4-5 years of age. Babies cry to communicate, not to manipulate. If your baby wakes up crying, they need something. Whether they are hungry or don't know how to fall back asleep is up for you to determine, not ignore. There are ways to teach your baby to STTN without using any form of CIO. You have to gradually teach your baby that they can fall asleep without their normal sleep cues such as the boob/pacifier/etc. Most parents fail to realize that STTN means a 5-hour stretch and that some babies do in fact need to eat in the middle of the night, especially BF babies.

Um...I've been working with kids of all ages for the past 11 years. I can tell you that kids begin to learn how to manipulate adults to get what they want much earlier than 4 or 5 years old.

Well you'd better call Dr. Sears and tell him he's wrong.

I'd love to! He was wrong about a lot of things and reading his book made my blood boil. He's a doctor with an opinion - he's not the only qualified professional on the subject of babies.

Want a personalized experience?

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