:Dumps can of worms all over the floor:

Ciconrad

bb80:

carney09:

bb80:

I never really understood the whole "self soothe"thing.  We as adults have things that calm us down.  Whether it be a glass of wine, talking to a friend, or watching trashy TV, we know what works for us.  Babies, on the other hand..know one thing, their parents.  I think that if someone put me in a huge place i couldn't escape from and was upset, i would feel abandoned...guess my opinion is extreme on here..oh well

 

Or perhaps lying in a dark room and just relaxing...which is what an infant would do.  Or they would learn to suck on their hands, or suck a binky, or maybe coo for a few minutes to release energy...why would this be bad?  You're teaching them there are other ways to be soothed other than their parents.  No, they don't know this instinctively.  Which is why its called sleep training.

 

how is crying=relaxing?

plus, i don't plan on "training" my infant, i have a dog for that

 

So no potty training for you?

carney09

bb80:

carney09:

katesmom73:

robinsokj:

I love when normal, every day parents act like they're subject matter experts

I was just thinking the same thing.

 

Me too.  An opinion and a decision on what is best for you is one thing.  I start acting as if you are an expert and everyone else clearly just isn't as educated and informed as you are is ANNOYING.

if you are referring to me, how is ME giving MY opinion(never claimed to be an expert ) different from anyone else giving theirs??  Because it's unpopular?

 

 

CHILL OUT! 

A) I was not referring to you.  your opinion is hardly unpopular

 

 

bb80

carney09:

bb80:

carney09:

bb80:

I never really understood the whole "self soothe"thing.  We as adults have things that calm us down.  Whether it be a glass of wine, talking to a friend, or watching trashy TV, we know what works for us.  Babies, on the other hand..know one thing, their parents.  I think that if someone put me in a huge place i couldn't escape from and was upset, i would feel abandoned...guess my opinion is extreme on here..oh well

 

Or perhaps lying in a dark room and just relaxing...which is what an infant would do.  Or they would learn to suck on their hands, or suck a binky, or maybe coo for a few minutes to release energy...why would this be bad?  You're teaching them there are other ways to be soothed other than their parents.  No, they don't know this instinctively.  Which is why its called sleep training.

 

how is crying=relaxing?

plus, i don't plan on "training" my infant, i have a dog for that

 

 

 

ahahaha, stop it.  Really.  You don't plan on teaching your child anything?  Are we going to argue over semantics now because we don't agree on something?

 

Crying does not = relaxing.  However, the crying does not last.  They realize its ok to suck your thumb and go back to sleep.  Its ok to coo for a bit and then fall asleep, etc etc. 

 

Look, its not for you.  I don't give a *** what you do.  But the insults and comparisons to training a dog are ridiculous and uncalled for.

wow....just....

wow

 

xtencornfield

Ciconrad:

carney09:

bb80:

I never really understood the whole "self soothe"thing.  We as adults have things that calm us down.  Whether it be a glass of wine, talking to a friend, or watching trashy TV, we know what works for us.  Babies, on the other hand..know one thing, their parents.  I think that if someone put me in a huge place i couldn't escape from and was upset, i would feel abandoned...guess my opinion is extreme on here..oh well

 

Or perhaps lying in a dark room and just relaxing...which is what an infant would do.  Or they would learn to suck on their hands, or suck a binky, or maybe coo for a few minutes to release energy...why would this be bad?  You're teaching them there are other ways to be soothed other than their parents.  No, they don't know this instinctively.  Which is why its called sleep training.

 

EXACTLY!!!  My son learned "ok, I don't need mommy to rock me for 30 minutes to go back to sleep."  He learned that gently rubbing his head on the sheet and sucking his hand was soothing enough to go back to sleep.  And since I was in there every 5 mintues saying "baby, I just want you to sleep.  I love you", I doubt he felt I abandoned him.

And part of the reason I get defensive is because 2 years ago I was a desperate mama with a 6 month old baby who hadn't slept more than 2 hour stretch in nearly 2 months.  DH and I were at a breaking point.  DS was so overtired and miserable all day long.  I woke up every morning (on 3-4-ish hours of sleep)  thinking "I can't do this today".  I didn't know what to do. 

I researched CIO and felt we needed it but I'd get on here and see all these judgey statements (it's learned helplessness, it's lazy parenting, didn't you know before you had ababy you wouldn't get much sleep) and be so guilty and thinking I was an even worse mom for considering it.  Finally, DH was like "we're doing it" and I agreed.  It really was the absolutely best decision.  I have absolutely no regrets. 

I look back and realize how difficult a choice it was and how close to a breaking point I was and I want other first time moms in that position to know that some people think you are making the right choice if you decide CIO is right for you.

thank you for posting this

ASmallWonder

Dawley82:

Learned helplessness is a result of the CIO method.  Babies learn that their cries will not be responded to so they quit crying.  Parents think it works because their babies now STTN!  If they didn't STTN, surely they would wake up crying right?  No.  Just because your baby who was forced to CIO seems to STTN, doesn't mean they really are.  They just wake up and know not to cry because their cries will be ignored.  That's learned helplessness.

To each their own and every baby and parent is differet, but IMO CIO sucks no matter how gentle of a method you use.  Humans are not capable of munipulation until they are aruond 4-5 years of age.  Babies cry to communicate, not to manipulate.  If your baby wakes up crying, they need something.  Whether they are hungry or don't know how to fall back asleep is up for you to determine, not ignore.  There are ways to teach your baby to STTN without using any form of CIO.  You have to gradually teach your baby that they can fall asleep without their normal sleep cues such as the boob/pacifier/etc.  Most parents fail to realize that STTN means a 5-hour stretch and that some babies do in fact need to eat in the middle of the night, especially BF babies.

 

I'm sorry but I don't agree with this at.all.  You've never seen a toddler get told "No" and then they "fake cry" until they get what they want?  I can wait for Holly to chime in on this because she can tell you how I fell victim to her niece once haha

amykins1283

Dawley82:

Learned helplessness is a result of the CIO method.  Babies learn that their cries will not be responded to so they quit crying.  Parents think it works because their babies now STTN!  If they didn't STTN, surely they would wake up crying right?  No.  Just because your baby who was forced to CIO seems to STTN, doesn't mean they really are.  They just wake up and know not to cry because their cries will be ignored.  That's learned helplessness.

To each their own and every baby and parent is differet, but IMO CIO sucks no matter how gentle of a method you use.  Humans are not capable of munipulation until they are aruond 4-5 years of age.  Babies cry to communicate, not to manipulate.  If your baby wakes up crying, they need something.  Whether they are hungry or don't know how to fall back asleep is up for you to determine, not ignore.  There are ways to teach your baby to STTN without using any form of CIO.  You have to gradually teach your baby that they can fall asleep without their normal sleep cues such as the boob/pacifier/etc.  Most parents fail to realize that STTN means a 5-hour stretch and that some babies do in fact need to eat in the middle of the night, especially BF babies.

 

Um...I've been working with kids of all ages for the past 11 years.  I can tell you that kids begin to learn how to manipulate adults to get what they want much earlier than 4 or 5 years old. 

carney09

bb80:

carney09:

bb80:

carney09:

bb80:

I never really understood the whole "self soothe"thing.  We as adults have things that calm us down.  Whether it be a glass of wine, talking to a friend, or watching trashy TV, we know what works for us.  Babies, on the other hand..know one thing, their parents.  I think that if someone put me in a huge place i couldn't escape from and was upset, i would feel abandoned...guess my opinion is extreme on here..oh well

 

Or perhaps lying in a dark room and just relaxing...which is what an infant would do.  Or they would learn to suck on their hands, or suck a binky, or maybe coo for a few minutes to release energy...why would this be bad?  You're teaching them there are other ways to be soothed other than their parents.  No, they don't know this instinctively.  Which is why its called sleep training.

 

how is crying=relaxing?

plus, i don't plan on "training" my infant, i have a dog for that

 

 

 

ahahaha, stop it.  Really.  You don't plan on teaching your child anything?  Are we going to argue over semantics now because we don't agree on something?

 

Crying does not = relaxing.  However, the crying does not last.  They realize its ok to suck your thumb and go back to sleep.  Its ok to coo for a bit and then fall asleep, etc etc. 

 

Look, its not for you.  I don't give a *** what you do.  But the insults and comparisons to training a dog are ridiculous and uncalled for.

wow....just....

wow

 

 

What are you wow'ing me for?  Are we speaking the same language here, or are you just looking to fight with someone?  I don't understand how you're getting so worked up over my posts.  Seriously.

Dawley82

carney09:

katesmom73:

robinsokj:

I love when normal, every day parents act like they're subject matter experts

I was just thinking the same thing.

 

Me too.  An opinion and a decision on what is best for you is one thing.  I start acting as if you are an expert and everyone else clearly just isn't as educated and informed as you are is ANNOYING.

I listed a lot of facts in my PP, but I never called myself an expert.  Do I like to be informed and know all of the negative effects of CIO so I can make the best choice for my child? Yes.  Do I like to share that info with curious people? Definitely.  Does that mean I think I'm an expert or think I'm better than you?  No.  Statements like yours make yourself seem defensive, and yes - ignorant.  And from the posts I've read of yours in the past, I know you're not.  Those of us that don't CIO and tend to be AP, are very passionate about that.  I only discuss it when people ask - I never just tell people I agree with their parenting.  We all do things different and all of our kids are different.  There's no one right way.  But when I do compare ideas with other parents, I find that people typically choose to CIO because everyone tells them that's what's right even though it goes against everything they truly feel is right.  Some people don't realize that there really is an alternative to the CIO method, that it's not necessary.  I'm pretty sure that's why we may come across as thinking we're experts even though we don't have that intention.

MelonieK

Hollysmoffett:

A few of the happiest babies I know have been subjected to CIO.  My neice is almost 2 and won't sleep in her own bed.  They have tried literally everything, they consulted with the pedi who referred them to a pediatric behavorist AND the behavorist told them to let her cry it out.  At this point, they will never get her to sleep on her own if they don't. 

How true how true!  I didn't with DD1, and it took me nine years to finally get her out of my bed. 

Ciconrad

bb80:

carney09:

bb80:

carney09:

bb80:

I never really understood the whole "self soothe"thing.  We as adults have things that calm us down.  Whether it be a glass of wine, talking to a friend, or watching trashy TV, we know what works for us.  Babies, on the other hand..know one thing, their parents.  I think that if someone put me in a huge place i couldn't escape from and was upset, i would feel abandoned...guess my opinion is extreme on here..oh well

 

Or perhaps lying in a dark room and just relaxing...which is what an infant would do.  Or they would learn to suck on their hands, or suck a binky, or maybe coo for a few minutes to release energy...why would this be bad?  You're teaching them there are other ways to be soothed other than their parents.  No, they don't know this instinctively.  Which is why its called sleep training.

 

how is crying=relaxing?

plus, i don't plan on "training" my infant, i have a dog for that

 

 

 

ahahaha, stop it.  Really.  You don't plan on teaching your child anything?  Are we going to argue over semantics now because we don't agree on something?

 

Crying does not = relaxing.  However, the crying does not last.  They realize its ok to suck your thumb and go back to sleep.  Its ok to coo for a bit and then fall asleep, etc etc. 

 

Look, its not for you.  I don't give a *** what you do.  But the insults and comparisons to training a dog are ridiculous and uncalled for.

wow....just....

wow

 

Nothing she said was shocking...

ANJ410

I can't speak for everyone, but I did CIO with my son when he was an older baby, like close to 1, and in his case it was because he used to try to fight naps, which would make him very cranky and overstimulated.  He literally needed to cry himself into exaustion in order to fall alseep.  I imagine the concept is the same at any age that the experts deem old enough to self soothe. 

Dawley82

amykins1283:

Dawley82:

Learned helplessness is a result of the CIO method.  Babies learn that their cries will not be responded to so they quit crying.  Parents think it works because their babies now STTN!  If they didn't STTN, surely they would wake up crying right?  No.  Just because your baby who was forced to CIO seems to STTN, doesn't mean they really are.  They just wake up and know not to cry because their cries will be ignored.  That's learned helplessness.

To each their own and every baby and parent is differet, but IMO CIO sucks no matter how gentle of a method you use.  Humans are not capable of munipulation until they are aruond 4-5 years of age.  Babies cry to communicate, not to manipulate.  If your baby wakes up crying, they need something.  Whether they are hungry or don't know how to fall back asleep is up for you to determine, not ignore.  There are ways to teach your baby to STTN without using any form of CIO.  You have to gradually teach your baby that they can fall asleep without their normal sleep cues such as the boob/pacifier/etc.  Most parents fail to realize that STTN means a 5-hour stretch and that some babies do in fact need to eat in the middle of the night, especially BF babies.

 

Um...I've been working with kids of all ages for the past 11 years.  I can tell you that kids begin to learn how to manipulate adults to get what they want much earlier than 4 or 5 years old. 

Well you'd better call Dr. Sears and tell him he's wrong.

robinsokj

Dawley82:

carney09:

katesmom73:

robinsokj:

I love when normal, every day parents act like they're subject matter experts

I was just thinking the same thing.

 

Me too.  An opinion and a decision on what is best for you is one thing.  I start acting as if you are an expert and everyone else clearly just isn't as educated and informed as you are is ANNOYING.

I listed a lot of facts in my PP, but I never called myself an expert.  Do I like to be informed and know all of the negative effects of CIO so I can make the best choice for my child? Yes.  Do I like to share that info with curious people? Definitely.  Does that mean I think I'm an expert or think I'm better than you?  No.  Statements like yours make yourself seem defensive, and yes - ignorant.  And from the posts I've read of yours in the past, I know you're not.  Those of us that don't CIO and tend to be AP, are very passionate about that.  I only discuss it when people ask - I never just tell people I agree with their parenting.  We all do things different and all of our kids are different.  There's no one right way.  But when I do compare ideas with other parents, I find that people typically choose to CIO because everyone tells them that's what's right even though it goes against everything they truly feel is right.  Some people don't realize that there really is an alternative to the CIO method, that it's not necessary.  I'm pretty sure that's why we may come across as thinking we're experts even though we don't have that intention.

Fact?  Like children can't be manipulative until they're 5?  Have you read any pro CIO info?  I'm guessing not.  

Dawley82

bb80:

carney09:

katesmom73:

robinsokj:

I love when normal, every day parents act like they're subject matter experts

I was just thinking the same thing.

 

Me too.  An opinion and a decision on what is best for you is one thing.  I start acting as if you are an expert and everyone else clearly just isn't as educated and informed as you are is ANNOYING.

if you are referring to me, how is ME giving MY opinion(never claimed to be an expert ) different from anyone else giving theirs??  Because it's unpopular?

 

I dunno about you, but I remember now why I stay on the AP board more.  These people are ridiculous.

carney09

Dawley82:

carney09:

katesmom73:

robinsokj:

I love when normal, every day parents act like they're subject matter experts

I was just thinking the same thing.

 

Me too.  An opinion and a decision on what is best for you is one thing.  I start acting as if you are an expert and everyone else clearly just isn't as educated and informed as you are is ANNOYING.

I listed a lot of facts in my PP, but I never called myself an expert.  Do I like to be informed and know all of the negative effects of CIO so I can make the best choice for my child? Yes.  Do I like to share that info with curious people? Definitely.  Does that mean I think I'm an expert or think I'm better than you?  No.  Statements like yours make yourself seem defensive, and yes - ignorant.  And from the posts I've read of yours in the past, I know you're not.  Those of us that don't CIO and tend to be AP, are very passionate about that.  I only discuss it when people ask - I never just tell people I agree with their parenting.  We all do things different and all of our kids are different.  There's no one right way.  But when I do compare ideas with other parents, I find that people typically choose to CIO because everyone tells them that's what's right even though it goes against everything they truly feel is right.  Some people don't realize that there really is an alternative to the CIO method, that it's not necessary.  I'm pretty sure that's why we may come across as thinking we're experts even though we don't have that intention.

 

What statement made me seem ignorant?  My original opinion that I don't find CIO to be as harmful as you do?  If so, thats unfair.  Do you honestly think I haven't done my reading and research just like you have?

mavilabride4evah

I'll offer my comments strictly from my experience.  Disclaimer: I do not claim to be a professional, just a mom that tried to get her daughter to sleep successfully.

My daughter started STTN at 6 months.  She did so on her own.  When I realized she wasn't nursing as much at night, I stopped and would soothe her back to sleep by rocking when she would wake up.  I went from rocking to just picking her up to just patting her bottom until she slept through.  We did that process with the 3-4am nursing session and then eventually the 10pm session until she slept all night.

After that we taught her to not need to be rocked to sleep.  We would put her down drowsy and walk away from the room.  She was an Angel when we did this and would fall asleep on her own without crying at all.

She was like that up until 11 months when she went through a phase of separation anxiety.  She didn't want to be left alone.  Sitting in her room while she slept took a lot out of our evening but we did it anyway.  The problem is that her sleep was interrupted by constantly poking her head up to check to see that we were still in the room.  We were teaching her that we would be there, sitting in the glider, all night while she slept. 

So we made the decision to CIO.  We followed the same bed time routine that we always did.  We made sure she didn't need anything and walked out of the room.  She cried.  She was upset.  But then she slept on her own without anyone in the room.  It took 3 nights until we were back on the pattern of putting her down awake and her falling asleep on her own.

From our perspective, we didn't teach her that she was alone and had to fend for herself but that it was ok to fall asleep without mom and dad in the room because we will see her in the morning.  She wasn't alone since we were just there and she, being almost a toddler at that point, fully understood that we were in the next room.

Now, is CIO the only method out there? No.  Is it the best method for every child? No.  Are parents who do this method use it with the intention of abandoning their child? Hell no.

But the fact of the matter is that sleep IS  fundamental part of their growth and until you are in the position where your child is physically tired but incapable of putting themselves to sleep, you can't judge the methods that other parents use.

And a newsflash (that I'm sure the second time moms already know): Just because you have a great sleeper now that didn't need CIO, that doesn't mean that it'll continue.  Just because rocking to sleep works for your baby now, that doesn't mean they'll always want to be held to sleep.  Rocking DD to sleep now that she knows how to climb down from me and on to the floor is a huge challenge.

Ciconrad

Dawley82:

amykins1283:

Dawley82:

Learned helplessness is a result of the CIO method.  Babies learn that their cries will not be responded to so they quit crying.  Parents think it works because their babies now STTN!  If they didn't STTN, surely they would wake up crying right?  No.  Just because your baby who was forced to CIO seems to STTN, doesn't mean they really are.  They just wake up and know not to cry because their cries will be ignored.  That's learned helplessness.

To each their own and every baby and parent is differet, but IMO CIO sucks no matter how gentle of a method you use.  Humans are not capable of munipulation until they are aruond 4-5 years of age.  Babies cry to communicate, not to manipulate.  If your baby wakes up crying, they need something.  Whether they are hungry or don't know how to fall back asleep is up for you to determine, not ignore.  There are ways to teach your baby to STTN without using any form of CIO.  You have to gradually teach your baby that they can fall asleep without their normal sleep cues such as the boob/pacifier/etc.  Most parents fail to realize that STTN means a 5-hour stretch and that some babies do in fact need to eat in the middle of the night, especially BF babies.

 

Um...I've been working with kids of all ages for the past 11 years.  I can tell you that kids begin to learn how to manipulate adults to get what they want much earlier than 4 or 5 years old. 

Well you'd better call Dr. Sears and tell him he's wrong.

Bwahaha.  I love people who act like Dr. Sears has a lockdown on all child psychology matters.  I know he's respected and clearly done his research and his opinions should be considered.  But....guess what, people, including other pediatricians and child experts disagree with him. Shocking, I know!

Dawley82

Ciconrad:

Dawley82:

amykins1283:

Dawley82:

Learned helplessness is a result of the CIO method.  Babies learn that their cries will not be responded to so they quit crying.  Parents think it works because their babies now STTN!  If they didn't STTN, surely they would wake up crying right?  No.  Just because your baby who was forced to CIO seems to STTN, doesn't mean they really are.  They just wake up and know not to cry because their cries will be ignored.  That's learned helplessness.

To each their own and every baby and parent is differet, but IMO CIO sucks no matter how gentle of a method you use.  Humans are not capable of munipulation until they are aruond 4-5 years of age.  Babies cry to communicate, not to manipulate.  If your baby wakes up crying, they need something.  Whether they are hungry or don't know how to fall back asleep is up for you to determine, not ignore.  There are ways to teach your baby to STTN without using any form of CIO.  You have to gradually teach your baby that they can fall asleep without their normal sleep cues such as the boob/pacifier/etc.  Most parents fail to realize that STTN means a 5-hour stretch and that some babies do in fact need to eat in the middle of the night, especially BF babies.

 

Um...I've been working with kids of all ages for the past 11 years.  I can tell you that kids begin to learn how to manipulate adults to get what they want much earlier than 4 or 5 years old. 

Well you'd better call Dr. Sears and tell him he's wrong.

Bwahaha.  I love people who act like Dr. Sears has a lockdown on all child psychology matters.  I know he's respected and clearly done his research and his opinions should be considered.  But....guess what, people, including other pediatricians and child experts disagree with him. Shocking, I know!

It is pointless trying to talk intelligently to such ignorant people.  Back to the AP board I go.  Have fun with your screwed up kids.

jennyandty

Dawley82:

Learned helplessness is a result of the CIO method.  Babies learn that their cries will not be responded to so they quit crying.  Parents think it works because their babies now STTN!  If they didn't STTN, surely they would wake up crying right?  No.  Just because your baby who was forced to CIO seems to STTN, doesn't mean they really are.  They just wake up and know not to cry because their cries will be ignored.  That's learned helplessness.

To each their own and every baby and parent is differet, but IMO CIO sucks no matter how gentle of a method you use.  Humans are not capable of munipulation until they are aruond 4-5 years of age.  Babies cry to communicate, not to manipulate.  If your baby wakes up crying, they need something.  Whether they are hungry or don't know how to fall back asleep is up for you to determine, not ignore.  There are ways to teach your baby to STTN without using any form of CIO.  You have to gradually teach your baby that they can fall asleep without their normal sleep cues such as the boob/pacifier/etc.  Most parents fail to realize that STTN means a 5-hour stretch and that some babies do in fact need to eat in the middle of the night, especially BF babies.

 

 

Really?  Have you ever been around a toddler??

robinsokj

Ciconrad:

Dawley82:

amykins1283:

Dawley82:

Learned helplessness is a result of the CIO method.  Babies learn that their cries will not be responded to so they quit crying.  Parents think it works because their babies now STTN!  If they didn't STTN, surely they would wake up crying right?  No.  Just because your baby who was forced to CIO seems to STTN, doesn't mean they really are.  They just wake up and know not to cry because their cries will be ignored.  That's learned helplessness.

To each their own and every baby and parent is differet, but IMO CIO sucks no matter how gentle of a method you use.  Humans are not capable of munipulation until they are aruond 4-5 years of age.  Babies cry to communicate, not to manipulate.  If your baby wakes up crying, they need something.  Whether they are hungry or don't know how to fall back asleep is up for you to determine, not ignore.  There are ways to teach your baby to STTN without using any form of CIO.  You have to gradually teach your baby that they can fall asleep without their normal sleep cues such as the boob/pacifier/etc.  Most parents fail to realize that STTN means a 5-hour stretch and that some babies do in fact need to eat in the middle of the night, especially BF babies.

 

Um...I've been working with kids of all ages for the past 11 years.  I can tell you that kids begin to learn how to manipulate adults to get what they want much earlier than 4 or 5 years old. 

Well you'd better call Dr. Sears and tell him he's wrong.

Bwahaha.  I love people who act like Dr. Sears has a lockdown on all child psychology matters.  I know he's respected and clearly done his research and his opinions should be considered.  But....guess what, people, including other pediatricians and child experts disagree with him. Shocking, I know!

I know right?  "researching" one source, or one side is akin to "knowing" current events when your only source is Fox News

Ciconrad

Dawley82:

bb80:

carney09:

katesmom73:

robinsokj:

I love when normal, every day parents act like they're subject matter experts

I was just thinking the same thing.

 

Me too.  An opinion and a decision on what is best for you is one thing.  I start acting as if you are an expert and everyone else clearly just isn't as educated and informed as you are is ANNOYING.

if you are referring to me, how is ME giving MY opinion(never claimed to be an expert ) different from anyone else giving theirs??  Because it's unpopular?

 

I dunno about you, but I remember now why I stay on the AP board more.  These people are ridiculous.

Hmm...ok, well if you can't handle that some of us are ok with CIO (within certain parameters and certain situations) and have also researched and are informed but just happen to disagree with you and Dr. Sears, then yes, you probably just should stick to the AP board.

kate930

Dawley82:

bb80:

carney09:

katesmom73:

robinsokj:

I love when normal, every day parents act like they're subject matter experts

I was just thinking the same thing.

 

Me too.  An opinion and a decision on what is best for you is one thing.  I start acting as if you are an expert and everyone else clearly just isn't as educated and informed as you are is ANNOYING.

if you are referring to me, how is ME giving MY opinion(never claimed to be an expert ) different from anyone else giving theirs??  Because it's unpopular?

 

I dunno about you, but I remember now why I stay on the AP board more.  These people are ridiculous.

Maybe you should stay on the AP board if you can't handle people disagreeing with you. I haven't seen a bit of "ridiculousness" here, just people arguing their differing opinions. 

mtbmama

Dawley82:

Ciconrad:

Dawley82:

amykins1283:

Dawley82:

Learned helplessness is a result of the CIO method.  Babies learn that their cries will not be responded to so they quit crying.  Parents think it works because their babies now STTN!  If they didn't STTN, surely they would wake up crying right?  No.  Just because your baby who was forced to CIO seems to STTN, doesn't mean they really are.  They just wake up and know not to cry because their cries will be ignored.  That's learned helplessness.

To each their own and every baby and parent is differet, but IMO CIO sucks no matter how gentle of a method you use.  Humans are not capable of munipulation until they are aruond 4-5 years of age.  Babies cry to communicate, not to manipulate.  If your baby wakes up crying, they need something.  Whether they are hungry or don't know how to fall back asleep is up for you to determine, not ignore.  There are ways to teach your baby to STTN without using any form of CIO.  You have to gradually teach your baby that they can fall asleep without their normal sleep cues such as the boob/pacifier/etc.  Most parents fail to realize that STTN means a 5-hour stretch and that some babies do in fact need to eat in the middle of the night, especially BF babies.

 

Um...I've been working with kids of all ages for the past 11 years.  I can tell you that kids begin to learn how to manipulate adults to get what they want much earlier than 4 or 5 years old. 

Well you'd better call Dr. Sears and tell him he's wrong.

Bwahaha.  I love people who act like Dr. Sears has a lockdown on all child psychology matters.  I know he's respected and clearly done his research and his opinions should be considered.  But....guess what, people, including other pediatricians and child experts disagree with him. Shocking, I know!

It is pointless trying to talk intelligently to such ignorant people.  Back to the AP board I go.  Have fun with your screwed up kids.

Wow, that was pretty uncalled for.  And you are the one that called people that disagreed with you ridiculous?  I doubt that her kids are screwed up because she needed to do something that you don't agree with to get her baby and herself to get some sleep.  That makes YOU sound pretty ridiculous.

Ciconrad

Dawley82:

Ciconrad:

Dawley82:

amykins1283:

Dawley82:

Learned helplessness is a result of the CIO method.  Babies learn that their cries will not be responded to so they quit crying.  Parents think it works because their babies now STTN!  If they didn't STTN, surely they would wake up crying right?  No.  Just because your baby who was forced to CIO seems to STTN, doesn't mean they really are.  They just wake up and know not to cry because their cries will be ignored.  That's learned helplessness.

To each their own and every baby and parent is differet, but IMO CIO sucks no matter how gentle of a method you use.  Humans are not capable of munipulation until they are aruond 4-5 years of age.  Babies cry to communicate, not to manipulate.  If your baby wakes up crying, they need something.  Whether they are hungry or don't know how to fall back asleep is up for you to determine, not ignore.  There are ways to teach your baby to STTN without using any form of CIO.  You have to gradually teach your baby that they can fall asleep without their normal sleep cues such as the boob/pacifier/etc.  Most parents fail to realize that STTN means a 5-hour stretch and that some babies do in fact need to eat in the middle of the night, especially BF babies.

 

Um...I've been working with kids of all ages for the past 11 years.  I can tell you that kids begin to learn how to manipulate adults to get what they want much earlier than 4 or 5 years old. 

Well you'd better call Dr. Sears and tell him he's wrong.

Bwahaha.  I love people who act like Dr. Sears has a lockdown on all child psychology matters.  I know he's respected and clearly done his research and his opinions should be considered.  But....guess what, people, including other pediatricians and child experts disagree with him. Shocking, I know!

It is pointless trying to talk intelligently to such ignorant people.  Back to the AP board I go.  Have fun with your screwed up kids.

Uh ok. Buh Bye.  Your "Best Mom in the World" prize will be mailed tomorrow.

carney09

Dawley82:

bb80:

carney09:

katesmom73:

robinsokj:

I love when normal, every day parents act like they're subject matter experts

I was just thinking the same thing.

 

Me too.  An opinion and a decision on what is best for you is one thing.  I start acting as if you are an expert and everyone else clearly just isn't as educated and informed as you are is ANNOYING.

if you are referring to me, how is ME giving MY opinion(never claimed to be an expert ) different from anyone else giving theirs??  Because it's unpopular?

 

I dunno about you, but I remember now why I stay on the AP board more.  These people are ridiculous.

 

Because we don't agree???  For real?  Maybe you should stay over there then.  Damn.

robinsokj

Dawley82:

Ciconrad:

Dawley82:

amykins1283:

Dawley82:

Learned helplessness is a result of the CIO method.  Babies learn that their cries will not be responded to so they quit crying.  Parents think it works because their babies now STTN!  If they didn't STTN, surely they would wake up crying right?  No.  Just because your baby who was forced to CIO seems to STTN, doesn't mean they really are.  They just wake up and know not to cry because their cries will be ignored.  That's learned helplessness.

To each their own and every baby and parent is differet, but IMO CIO sucks no matter how gentle of a method you use.  Humans are not capable of munipulation until they are aruond 4-5 years of age.  Babies cry to communicate, not to manipulate.  If your baby wakes up crying, they need something.  Whether they are hungry or don't know how to fall back asleep is up for you to determine, not ignore.  There are ways to teach your baby to STTN without using any form of CIO.  You have to gradually teach your baby that they can fall asleep without their normal sleep cues such as the boob/pacifier/etc.  Most parents fail to realize that STTN means a 5-hour stretch and that some babies do in fact need to eat in the middle of the night, especially BF babies.

 

Um...I've been working with kids of all ages for the past 11 years.  I can tell you that kids begin to learn how to manipulate adults to get what they want much earlier than 4 or 5 years old. 

Well you'd better call Dr. Sears and tell him he's wrong.

Bwahaha.  I love people who act like Dr. Sears has a lockdown on all child psychology matters.  I know he's respected and clearly done his research and his opinions should be considered.  But....guess what, people, including other pediatricians and child experts disagree with him. Shocking, I know!

It is pointless trying to talk intelligently to such ignorant people.  Back to the AP board I go.  Have fun with your screwed up kids.

So, everyone who disagrees with you is now ignorant?  Thats neat

hydies33

Ciconrad:

bb80:

carney09:

bb80:

I never really understood the whole "self soothe"thing.  We as adults have things that calm us down.  Whether it be a glass of wine, talking to a friend, or watching trashy TV, we know what works for us.  Babies, on the other hand..know one thing, their parents.  I think that if someone put me in a huge place i couldn't escape from and was upset, i would feel abandoned...guess my opinion is extreme on here..oh well

 

Or perhaps lying in a dark room and just relaxing...which is what an infant would do.  Or they would learn to suck on their hands, or suck a binky, or maybe coo for a few minutes to release energy...why would this be bad?  You're teaching them there are other ways to be soothed other than their parents.  No, they don't know this instinctively.  Which is why its called sleep training.

 

how is crying=relaxing?

plus, i don't plan on "training" my infant, i have a dog for that

 

So no potty training for you?

This made me LOL. Ciconrad FTW!

jennyandty

Dawley82:

carney09:

katesmom73:

robinsokj:

I love when normal, every day parents act like they're subject matter experts

I was just thinking the same thing.

 

Me too.  An opinion and a decision on what is best for you is one thing.  I start acting as if you are an expert and everyone else clearly just isn't as educated and informed as you are is ANNOYING.

I listed a lot of facts in my PP, but I never called myself an expert.  Do I like to be informed and know all of the negative effects of CIO so I can make the best choice for my child? Yes.  Do I like to share that info with curious people? Definitely.  Does that mean I think I'm an expert or think I'm better than you?  No.  Statements like yours make yourself seem defensive, and yes - ignorant.  And from the posts I've read of yours in the past, I know you're not.  Those of us that don't CIO and tend to be AP, are very passionate about that.  I only discuss it when people ask - I never just tell people I agree with their parenting.  We all do things different and all of our kids are different.  There's no one right way.  But when I do compare ideas with other parents, I find that people typically choose to CIO because everyone tells them that's what's right even though it goes against everything they truly feel is right.  Some people don't realize that there really is an alternative to the CIO method, that it's not necessary.  I'm pretty sure that's why we may come across as thinking we're experts even though we don't have that intention.

 

The mom of the year prize goes to you! 

 You are making AP parents look bad please stop!

two-pink-shoes

Awesome.

I can't see myself doing anything close to CIO until he's 9 months old, at least.  By then he probably won't need to eat in the middle of the night and I won't necessarily run to his crib when he fusses.  But you can bet that anytime he is all-out crying I will be there.  Including when he's 18 years old.  He's my baby and I DO want him to know I'll always be there.

ASmallWonder

robinsokj:

Dawley82:

Ciconrad:

Dawley82:

amykins1283:

Dawley82:

Learned helplessness is a result of the CIO method.  Babies learn that their cries will not be responded to so they quit crying.  Parents think it works because their babies now STTN!  If they didn't STTN, surely they would wake up crying right?  No.  Just because your baby who was forced to CIO seems to STTN, doesn't mean they really are.  They just wake up and know not to cry because their cries will be ignored.  That's learned helplessness.

To each their own and every baby and parent is differet, but IMO CIO sucks no matter how gentle of a method you use.  Humans are not capable of munipulation until they are aruond 4-5 years of age.  Babies cry to communicate, not to manipulate.  If your baby wakes up crying, they need something.  Whether they are hungry or don't know how to fall back asleep is up for you to determine, not ignore.  There are ways to teach your baby to STTN without using any form of CIO.  You have to gradually teach your baby that they can fall asleep without their normal sleep cues such as the boob/pacifier/etc.  Most parents fail to realize that STTN means a 5-hour stretch and that some babies do in fact need to eat in the middle of the night, especially BF babies.

 

Um...I've been working with kids of all ages for the past 11 years.  I can tell you that kids begin to learn how to manipulate adults to get what they want much earlier than 4 or 5 years old. 

Well you'd better call Dr. Sears and tell him he's wrong.

Bwahaha.  I love people who act like Dr. Sears has a lockdown on all child psychology matters.  I know he's respected and clearly done his research and his opinions should be considered.  But....guess what, people, including other pediatricians and child experts disagree with him. Shocking, I know!

It is pointless trying to talk intelligently to such ignorant people.  Back to the AP board I go.  Have fun with your screwed up kids.

So, everyone who disagrees with you is now ignorant?  Thats neat

No shitt, huh?  I wonder how Dr. Sears feels about situations where he used to believe one thing but has now changed his mind over the years.  Does he hate himself?

RadicalDreamer143

Dawley82:

Learned helplessness is a result of the CIO method.  Babies learn that their cries will not be responded to so they quit crying.  Parents think it works because their babies now STTN!  If they didn't STTN, surely they would wake up crying right?  No.  Just because your baby who was forced to CIO seems to STTN, doesn't mean they really are.  They just wake up and know not to cry because their cries will be ignored.  That's learned helplessness.

To each their own and every baby and parent is differet, but IMO CIO sucks no matter how gentle of a method you use.  Humans are not capable of munipulation until they are aruond 4-5 years of age.  Babies cry to communicate, not to manipulate.  If your baby wakes up crying, they need something.  Whether they are hungry or don't know how to fall back asleep is up for you to determine, not ignore.  There are ways to teach your baby to STTN without using any form of CIO.  You have to gradually teach your baby that they can fall asleep without their normal sleep cues such as the boob/pacifier/etc.  Most parents fail to realize that STTN means a 5-hour stretch and that some babies do in fact need to eat in the middle of the night, especially BF babies.

 

In regards to the first paragraph:

What makes it sound reasonable is the name they give it.  Where is the evidence that it is learned helplessness? I could just as easily call it "apple pie."

If there is evidence that these "learned helplessness babies" exhibit behaviors different than the CIO kids, then that would be something, but on THAT paragraph alone, the logic is flawed. I bet CIO kids still cry sometimes, so what is the excuse then? They fell and scraped their knee, oh wait, mom and dad don't care, so don't cry - I highly doubt it.

That's not to say I would do CIO - Liam sleeps perfectly fine (though who knows, for all I know he might be awake in his crib at 2am and not making a sound for whatever reason?) but THESE reasons seem like someone trying to make another parent feel guilty.  Just saying.

As for paragraph two - I'd like to know how you plan to gradually teach your baby without their normal sleep cues.  Again, Liam sleeps just fine, but right now when I put him down for the night, he is tired, and usually eats right beforehard (though he is still awake, just sleepy).

Ivana_Stolichnaya

Kaitlyn was up every 2-3 hours for 8.5 months straight.  We finally let her CIO for two nights (about 20 minutes each) and now she STTN.  I was totally against it but I'm so happy we finally put an end to the craziness.  Now I can put her down without one peep out of her and she sleeps 10-12 hours.

CTri17

robinsokj:

I love when normal, every day parents act like they're subject matter experts

this whole thread makes me want to ::::headdesk:::: multiple times....

And seriously kids can't learn to manipulate until 4-5 years of age....you have got to be kidding me.

mlf625

two-pink-shoes:

 Including when he's 18 years old.  He's my baby and I DO want him to know I'll always be there.

::snort::

Pretty sure your 18 year old will be too busy reading Playboy under the covers to want his mommy rubbing his back. 

mlf625

duplicate

IrishBrideND

damn.

 

and people think I'm the know-it-all on this board? Even I'm not this bad.

mtbmama

mlf625:

two-pink-shoes:

 Including when he's 18 years old.  He's my baby and I DO want him to know I'll always be there.

::snort::

Pretty sure your 18 year old will be too busy reading Playboy under the covers to want his mommy rubbing his back. 

LOL!  hehe!

xtencornfield

two-pink-shoes:

Awesome.

I can't see myself doing anything close to CIO until he's 9 months old, at least.  By then he probably won't need to eat in the middle of the night and I won't necessarily run to his crib when he fusses.  But you can bet that anytime he is all-out crying I will be there.  Including when he's 18 years old.  He's my baby and I DO want him to know I'll always be there.

Awesome.

Because everyone just loves a momma's-boy

CTri17

IrishBrideND:

damn.

 

and people think I'm the know-it-all on this board? Even I'm not this bad.

carney09

IrishBrideND:

damn.

 

and people think I'm the know-it-all on this board? Even I'm not this bad.

 

 

LMAO!  I love you.