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Attachment Parenting
FB status update: ferberizing is hard
Going for a walk soon with a group of mom friends. Just checked Facebook and "fereberizing is hard" is the most recent update from one of them.
Sigh.
I really like the women I have become friends with in my neighborhood and it is great to have a network of little friends for DS. But sometimes I really feel like the homebirthing/clothdiapering/AP oddball.
Okay, mini vent over.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: FB status update: ferberizing is hard
I ALWAYS feel weird for being the med-free birthing (would have had a home birth but DH wasn't having it), wanna be cloth diapering, non-CIO, vaccination-delaying, bfing oddball. You're not alone
Ferberizing is hard. Its harder when you have friends who think you are cruel and haven't read ferber but still judge you for it.
You're lovely. Really.
I can handle the "ferberizing is hard" ones... at least it shows emotion. I can't handle the ones that ramble about "music is up" or "tv is loud" or "ugh...it's been 3 hours of crying, why won't this kid just sleep?"
I don't believe everyone must parent the way I do, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who drown their children out or allow them to cry for hours on end. - ETA: sympathy for the child, yes. The parent, no.
I've never met a single person who let a child cry "for hours on end." not one. ever. Never even heard about it until the urban legends on here.
I have no idea how it can be hard for someone to hear "ferber is hard." NO clue. Because you didn't include details I assume that you don't know if the child is sleeping at all.
And saying that it was so hard for you to hear that you'd hope she didn't talk it over with you? Beyond beyond beyond pathetic.
Do you go out at all? Look at the world, take a walk now and then or watch the evening news? there are a lot of tragedies and this is not one of them. Grow a spine, support your friend with suggestions or help with babysitting, but don't sit here on the internet whining about how you're superior (and yes, that IS what it is) and how hard it is to hear someone talking about their incompetence in the attachment arena on FACEBOOK.
Ferber is hard and was one of the hardest things I"ve ever done. But it needed to be done because my child was misery and unhealthy and red and bleary eyed. and Jo did 7 minutes of crying. 7 minutes. And that was interrupted with my presence. I'm glad not a single friend of mine told me she'd rather not hear about it. Because not only is that ignorant, but far more painful to one's self esteem than a little baby crying for a few minutes and working on sleep through ferber.
Now most people will say "well its ok in THOSE circumstances lanie" but the result is the same regardless of intention. A child is crying. You need to realize there are bigger and far worse things and that your choices are just those. YOUR choices.
You are on an AP board. I'm sure you aren't surprised to read that people who post on this board don't like to read/hear about Ferberizing/CIO.
I assume you've read Ferber. Because it would simply silly to criticize a concept you haven't read about and which makes up only 1/100th of the book itself.
And while I do understand that many (not all, but certainly many) women on here don't want to let their child CIO (ferber is different though we all have our opinions on that), the idea that anyone could become so overwhelmed at the sight of a parent experiencing a challenge at ferber on facebook makes me question that person's level of personal understanding.
Also anyone willing to cut a friend off and not want them to talk about their personal challenges ... well, I can't say enough about that kind of person. and none of it is nice.
I didn't say cut her off - I just said hopefully she won't go into details.
I find it hard to listen to a lot of topics. I have a friend who gave away her dog because she couldn't handle the responsibility anymore. I felt terrible for the dog, and I hated hearing about it. That doesn't mean I didn't listen to my friend, offer support, try to understand her situation. But just because I did those things didn't mean I liked hearing about it. It was hard for her to give the dog away. It was hard for me to hear about. I'm sensitive to the topic.
Also, I didn't criticize Ferber. I said that I have no doubt that its hard and that hopefully she wouldn't have to hear the details on her walk. I honestly wouldn't want to hear the details. I would listen, but I'm not saying that it would be a pleasant experience for me to listen to the details.
you can call me an urban legend, but i have two friends who did that. one day just stopped going into LO's room until they decided it was time to get up. no matter how long or often the baby cried. it does happen. but that's not ferber - it's more of the Weissbluth method (Healthy Sleep Habits, Healthy Child).
ETA: and i'm pretty sure he does say to turn off the monitor, take a shower, etc so you don't have to hear LO cry. i do agree that is so harsh, but that's a different argument.
just sharing!
I know. And I'm sorry to jump on you. I just see these posts every 3 days and think "ok. But there's more to AP than being anti CIO. I'm looking forward to more AP discussions on toddler behaviour and issues that are a little broader than the daily "I saw someone do ferber and i hurt inside" ones.
As someone who listened to her bff talk about her DS CIO for 20-45 minutes a night for a YEAR, yeah, it is hard to listen to. And no I don't agree with her decision but it is her decision and my job to support her. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that it was hard to hear and made me sad.
This is an AP board and we are allowed to say what upsets up, back story or not. It doesn't mean we don't love our friends and won't be there for them. This is just our place to be supported in our own ideas.
When I hear stories of Ferberizing and how hard it is (I have no doubt it is very hard on the parents), I can't help but picture my DS hysterical in his crib (as he would be) and that makes me sad, I can't deny it.
So true. :P
Agree with this, and this is coming from someone who actually did resort to some "Ferber-lite" after 11 months of everyone being sleep-deprived and becoming miserable. It was needed for our DS and family, and I truly believe it was for the best and that DS has a strong attachment despite a bit of crying. BUT- I STILL hate to think about doing it, hate that it needed to come to it, and feel anxious hearing about other babies crying, even if I am confident it's the best thing overall. I just don't like when babies cry, period. I feel anxious if I'm in a store and I hear a baby crying a couple aisle's over, like "quick! someone attend to that child!" even if the mom is right there donig just fine.
I might be a little nutty, I know.
I don't think I'd go so far to say I'd hope a friend doesn't discuss those things with me, but it still is hard to hear.
And Eco- seriously you probably think I'm making this up, but once again we are long-lost twins... this time about dogs. Last week I had a friend tell me about the dog that they had that they gave away when her twins were born because it was too difficult. Gave me the same feeling- anxious, feel horrible for the dog. It's a sensitive spot for me as well. I wish you lived in SE Michigan so we could be IRL friends!
I can completely understand how it would be hard to read a lot of anti-CIO or anti-Ferber posts when it was something that really improved/healed your child's health and sleep issues. I honestly don't think Ferber is wrong in certain circumstances, but you know that Ferber is not always used in extreme circumstances or even used correctly. I rarely read the age boards and I don't open the CIO or Ferber posts on them because it is truly hard to read and I don't have any constructive advice in terms of working within the CIO/Ferber route. My feelings on this would also apply to a friend's situation.
A lot of the AP literature offers alternative routes to CIO and Ferber, and I know that everyone on here exhausts those options before attempting Ferber. But not everyone outside of the AP community does that. While I think pro-Ferber posts are perfectly appropriate for this board, this is also going to be a place where we look for like-minded people who aren't comfortable with CIO or Ferber. Sleep solutions and sleep training is one small aspect of AP, but it is also an aspect that sleep deprived parents are obsessed with so I think the topic will come up a lot.
I'm all for talking about toddler behavior too because that is becoming my current struggle
IDK if this whole thing was directed at me or if you're just really pissed, but I didn't say 99% of the things you just wrote in this post. Take a chill pill, Lanie.
Oh, and you've never met someone whose said that? Check out 3-6 and 6-9 every couple of days. There are posts on their weekly that say "I let DC cry for 2 hours and he won't stop -- should I go in?"
They may be their choices, but I'm allowed to have an opinion about it - my opinion is it isn't heathly.
LOL! My dog is my "first born." When my friend was telling me about giving her dog away, I kept thinking, "Of all people, why are you telling me this?" Anyone who knows me knows about my obsession with dogs. Of course, I tried to make her feel better about the situation, and I truly do believe that a dog is better off in a home where she can be loved unconditionally, and this dog was going to a home like that, but it still did tear me apart to listen to the details about her giving the dog away.
If I ever move to Michigan, I will let you know. Ha! Same to you if you ever move to Oklahoma.
No, not directed at you at all 7. Not directed at anyone in particular.
Honestly? Wow. Back in my day (HA) if you mentioned you'd let your baby cry for a few minutes while you got off the highway to soothe him someone would be on your ass trying to report you to the children's aid and quoting some sort of dr about the CIO = schizophrenia connection.
You didn't dare even speak the words without fear of a huge mutiny.
I swear to God there were women who felt it was better "psychologically" to remove the baby from the carseat while driving and nurse it (partner was driving) OR who said they never drove anywhere and sat with their baby in the backseat and hunched over the carseat to nurse.
I kid you not. My boobs are no petite A cups but i have o idea how I'd remain fastened in my seatbelt and get my boob to my baby in a carseat. But these women? THEY DID IT FOR THE LOVE OF THE INFANT!
Crazypants.
It's quite a different world over on the <1 year age boards now. Every few days it seems there's a "we did Ferber awhile back & my baby has been STTN since but now he's teething/sick/whatever & crying. Should I comfort him?" Uhh, pro-Ferber or not, you shouldn't need to ask a mssg board whether you should comfort your sick baby.
Yeah. That's nutsy. I wonder if it comes in waves. Like when I have my next one will it be considered wrong to use a stroller again?
So funny how it changes and changes.
True story. I remember those days.
I remember once when i posted, Jo would have been around 5 months and I was asking if anyone had any sleep suggestions other than NCSS (which I had read and, yeah nothing) because Jo was still getting up every half hour.
I was told to embrace the night wakings as a crucial time to bond with her and to stop being selfish. That I had to love it because those were moments I'd never get back. On and on and on with the self important drivel.
I remember thinking "I'm so alone. I don't and won't enjoy waking up every half hour."
I think sometimes I feel that way on here too because I do actually legitimately feel like some women are so far pressed in one direction that its ferber or violence/emotional breakdown. I have a lot of time for women at their breaking point and feel like we don't do a good enough job of saying "this is hard. You are doing the best you can.. This is hard." Instead we lecture or tsk tsk, or cry "uneducated" or pity the exhausted women's child, and I just don't think its helpful.
Right but do you make the decision to not drive anywhere yourself for fear your baby will need nursing and cry?
Its really hard to nurse and drive at the same time. I don't know a single person whose boob is that big. And sometimes jr is just going to have to wait until I pull over.
I literally LOLed!
I have pulled over to nurse DS in the car. I left him strapped in and just laid over him. I can't imagine what people thought I was doing.
Everything is cyclical. I can only wonder what it will be like when I have #2.
That whole cherish the nightwakings stuff is BS. Seriously. One night nursing maybe, but even that's short lilved. I'm pretty strict AP when it comes to sleep stuff but that doesn't mean I enjoy being up all night, nor does Ari. We can bond lots during the day. We can even bond at night while he's sleeping since we bedshare. [Operative part of that sentence being "while he's SLEEPING".] But when he sleeps for sh!t I'm not thinking "oh what a great bonding experience that was, tra la la" I'm thinking gah can I get a frickin' nap already, and I'm not as patient as I'd like to be with Ari either.
Should we be supportive of other mothers - sure. But I agree with those who've said that Ferber (as in the controlled crying part) gets over-used. The boards are full of folks (and I know folks IRL) who are chomping at the bit to "Ferber" at 6 or even 4 months - not because they have a sleep deprived baby, but because they want to end that last night waking or two. Big difference. Of course, everyone who uses Ferber's methods doesn't fall into the latter category - and I do feel for those folks. But for the "convenience Ferber-ers" (and they are definitely out there!) - I'm not really sympathetic (flame away).
I also have to confess to having nursed kiddo in the car (don't worry, DH was driving and kiddo was safely strapped in!). But this was at the tail end of a 12 hour car trip (South Alabama is the most endless stretch of highway ever!) and all other options to get him to sleep had been exhausted. Fortunately, it was dark so no one could see the crazy contortions going on in the backseat. But sure, there are times when kiddo is going to cry in the car and I've just kept going.
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I think this is true. It's probably one of the problem with message boards - we are usually seeking advice or used to giving advice. When we don't have good advice, we just give advice anyways.
I think what is great about the AP board is that its fairly small and we can follow each other's struggles. We "know" each other. However, if a random person posts and we don't know the backstory, we can jump to conclusions if we aren't given details.
I have to say, though, I don't know anything that cures the sleep problems that seem to occur between 3.5 to 6 months. This seems like the peak time for sleep issues, and I honestly don't think there is a good solution. I tried so many different things during this period and nothing helped except for time. I was hallucinating, thinking about driving my car into a fence so I could go to the hospital and get some sleep - I was definitely not in my right mind. So I can see myself telling people that it will get better and that there is light at the end of the tunnel because there was for me. Its probably frustrating to read that, though. I know people want solutions. Sometimes, there just aren't any solutions.
However, it is impossible to embrace the nightwakings when your kid is waking 10-12, sometimes 14 times. Anyone who says waking this much is a bonding experience is obviously out of their minds
I've been around for.ev.er and the crazy-cakes posts on the bump would usually be C&P on the nest (I don't have some secret older child I just decided to stop posting about a la belle.. anyone? anyone?) It used to be BRUTAL with CIO posts. The tide has turned and now CIO/Ferber seems like the norm.
If anybody who thinks nightwakings should be cherished has a baby who STTN, I'll gladly hand over my baby for a few nights
I don't mind sharing my little blessing one bit.
ITA. And this was one of the main reasons I never got into the NCSS love like so many others. I had a hard time getting through all the "I LOVED when my baby was little and woke up for nursing. It was so LOVELY and PEACEFUL and BEAUTIFUL".
Seriously? I felt that way for the first month, when he'd fall asleep nursing and let me place him gently in his PnP, and then I'd drift joyfully back to sleep for another 3-4 hours.
After that the squirming and screaming started, the hormones wore off, and the joyful, peaceful midnight nursings gave way to me attempting to nurse a shrieking baby monkey 10 times a night while not waking DH. Peaceful and lovely my a$$.
Lanie, I remember that post I think. I was BS then, and it's still BS.
I only work half time (5 nights every two weeks), so I'm a mostly SAHM...and I only enjoyed that snuggle time for the first couple months. Then, while I loved the snuggle time, I also REALLY started to miss my sleep. Luckily for us, we never had to do Ferber (but we were getting close to it...) because she did start STTN, or at least mostly STTN.
However, I was also told (beginning at about 3 months or so) that I was "not allowed to vent" about being tired if I refused to let her CIO, because it was "my fault" she wouldn't STTN yet. Even if I were a CIO fan, 3 months is FAR too young.
I mostly lurk on this board, but can I just say how much this post has helped me? Reading about how a lot of people had sleep issues between 3-6 months, and how not everyone feels some amazing joy at waking up multiple times in the middle of the night to nurse a baby has made me feel so much better!
I have a 4.5 month old who slept quite well at the beginning, and then 3 months hit. We are not up 10-12 times a night, thank God. But she definitely wakes 4-5 times and has trouble settling back into sleep. And some nights are HARD and I just sit there in bed nursing and wishing I was asleep instead. DD and I have plenty of bonding time during the day and mommy does a lot better bonding when she is well rested.
Thanks for making me feel normal!
The majority of sleep posts on here are from people in this age group. Also around 8-9 months. I hope you can get some sleep soon!
Thanks! I gotta remind myself and my H some times that you can't escape night wakings as a parent- it is like a rite of passage!
100% agree.
The decision to do CIO with my DD was not taken lightly and was done, quite frankly one night when both DH and I had reached our breaking point. You know the advice everyone gives to parents to leave the baby in the crib and leave the room if you feel yourself losing control? That was us. We couldn't take it anymore. 15 months is a long time to have the patience of a saint.
There are shades of grey in the sleep training world. Just because you CIO/Ferber doesn't mean you are sitting there with bon bons in hand gleeful that your child is crying.
ITA. We're a non-CIO family, but I'll never judge the parents of a child who is of an appropriate age if they choose to try CIO. It's not my place, and it's not my business, and regardless of how informed I might feel, I'm not the one handling the nightwakings. They are, and it's up to them to determine when they've reached the breaking point.
Not directed at anyone on this board, but there's a good bit of judgement in the AP community about whether mom and dad are "tough" enough to do the right thing and skip CIO. I'm pretty hardcore AP, and this attitude makes me cringe. It's not a contest to be won.