Babywise and CIO

sunnyday016 · February 2010

Just popping in to say that just because the one AP parent you know has a 2 year old that doesn't STTN, doesn't mean that that is the fault of AP. At all. AP is about paying attention to your child's needs to foster security and healthy attachment between parent and child. Most moms of AP toddlers will tell you that their children are very independent. If you're truly interested, I'd suggest asking on the AP board.

Also, I think the fact that Ezzo has no relationship with his grown children speaks volumes.

Back to my own board.

littlemaybaby · February 2010

According to OP, BW recommends CIO starting at 3 weeks. I wouldn't know, I haven't read the book.

However, I would certainly doubt anyone who claims to know anything about child development who would recommend that!!!

Seriously ladies, look at your newborns. Look at how totally helpless, dependent, and vulnerable they are. What are they capable of doing for themselves? The only thing a 3 week old can do is eat, sleep, pee, poop, and CRY! Crying is a newborn's ONLY form of communication. There is a reason that cry pierces your ears and can't be ignored - BECAUSE IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IGNORED!!!

ilovemyprince · February 2010

ibis:

Jen&Louie:
CIO that early sounds shockingly cruel to me. Fussing a little is one thing but, crying? No, Babies don't know how to self-soothe that early.

Not to mention that crying in the early months is not an emotional outburst, it's the baby's only way to communicate. It's not the same as a 4 year old crying because they want a cookie... they are crying to express basic needs.

This! I think it's just plain cruel to let your LO CIO that early.

ToledoDeux · February 2010

I'm still stuck at Babywise seeming like "common sense" to anyone, and AP seeming harmful. Tongue Tied

Common sense doesn't actually get more basic than:

Baby Cries. Pick Baby Up.

ilovemyprince · February 2010

littlemaybaby:

Seriously ladies, look at your newborns. Look at how totally helpless, dependent, and vulnerable they are. What are they capable of doing for themselves? The only thing a 3 week old can do is eat, sleep, pee, poop, and CRY! Crying is a newborn's ONLY form of communication. There is a reason that cry pierces your ears and can't be ignored - BECAUSE IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IGNORED!!!

Yes yes yes!!! This is worded perfectly!!!

sunnyday016 · February 2010

ToledoDeux:
I'm still stuck at Babywise seeming like "common sense" to anyone, and AP seeming harmful.
Common sense doesn't actually get more basic than:
Baby Cries. Pick Baby Up.

Yes!

ohmygoodness99 · February 2010

2. Babies don't have the ability to self sooth before about four months. Your 4 week old isn't learning to self-sooth, he/she is learning that mama doesn't respond to his/her needs.

This breaks my heart. Sometimes when I sooth my crying baby I think of the little babies in orphanages who just give up on crying because no one ever comes

dmogmo · February 2010

ToledoDeux:
I'm still stuck at Babywise seeming like "common sense" to anyone, and AP seeming harmful.
Common sense doesn't actually get more basic than:
Baby Cries. Pick Baby Up.

THIS THIS THIS. Jesus H Christ people.

jkfranklin · February 2010

ToledoDeux:
jkfranklin:

I didn't mean for this to turn into a debate on Babywise vs AP I simply asked a question about Babywise.

Actually, you pretty much invited the debate when you said this:

jkfranklin:

After reading the book, it seems like common sense to me. I'm not into AP. I think AP causes more problems in LO and wears out the mom.

I only said this after I was attacked saying that Babywise was horrible.

BrideBuddies · February 2010

Jenny1980, Misinformation, generalizations and exaggerations fly from both sides of this debate, much like any other debate that people are passionate about. But since you asked, here are some of your statements that I think are out of line in this debate:

Babywise flies in the face of everything we know about infant development. Really, everything? It's just a philosophy that might have a different perspective than you. I don't totally agree with everything, but that's a pretty big exaggeration.

Granted, I have not yet completed reading BW, but I've not seen that it suggests CIO starting at 3 weeks. If it does say that, I would not follow that aspect of the philosophy. Period.

This doesn't even get into the fact that it was written by two people with no qualifications who are currently estranged from their two grown children. No qualifications? Really? Because both authors do have children, so that at least makes them somewhat qualified, right? Just as qualified as the rest of us to have an opinion, anyway.

And what is the nature of this estrangement with their own children? Anyone actually know?? Any Is it related to the BW philosophies or is it just idle gossip drummed up to discredit the authors? I ask only because I don't know the answer but anti-BW people keep throwing that out there without explaination as to what it's about.

Babywise is dangerous because of the recommended parent driven feeding schedule. It has led to FTT in babies and a host of other issues. And as I said in a previous post, just last night I read the chapter on feeding and it clearly states a schedule PLUS parental judgement is a good balance. Parent-driven schedules alone are not a good plan. Blaming FTT on it is misinformation, IMO.

I'm not picking a fight here because I'm fairly neutral on the whole subject. But if you come out passionate about one side or the other, make sure you have your facts iron-clad. Yes, I'm not a big fan of AP, but there are things you can take from it as well.

dmogmo · February 2010

jkfranklin:
ToledoDeux:
jkfranklin:

I didn't mean for this to turn into a debate on Babywise vs AP I simply asked a question about Babywise.

Actually, you pretty much invited the debate when you said this:

jkfranklin:

After reading the book, it seems like common sense to me. I'm not into AP. I think AP causes more problems in LO and wears out the mom.

I only said this after I was attacked saying that Babywise was horrible.

Motherhood is tiring. At your baby's age it's not about schedules and convenience. End of story.

BrideBuddies · February 2010

diana82:
ToledoDeux:

I'm still stuck at Babywise seeming like "common sense" to anyone, and AP seeming harmful.

Common sense doesn't actually get more basic than:

Baby Cries. Pick Baby Up.

THIS THIS THIS. Jesus H Christ people.

Oh for crying out loud, (literally). Do you really believe that people who do not fully buy into all AP philosophy or follow BW just allow their infants to lie there and cry until they're purple in the face and pass out?

Common sense, indeed.

jkfranklin · February 2010

diana82:
jkfranklin:
ToledoDeux:
jkfranklin:

I didn't mean for this to turn into a debate on Babywise vs AP I simply asked a question about Babywise.

Actually, you pretty much invited the debate when you said this:

jkfranklin:

After reading the book, it seems like common sense to me. I'm not into AP. I think AP causes more problems in LO and wears out the mom.

I only said this after I was attacked saying that Babywise was horrible.

Motherhood is tiring. At your baby's age it's not about schedules and convenience. End of story.

Yes it is tiring and I Babywise is about getting a baby on a schedule, which I 100% believe is possible. That being said, I don't expect my month old baby to stick to a schedule but having a good foundation IMO is a good idea. Right now, I know that if DS eats for a full feeding, 99% of the time I know that he won't need to eat again for at least 2 hours. This is a schedule right now. I know that when I feed LO I can go to Target and get some stuff and get home to feed LO (rather than feed him in Target).

I didn't mean to start a debate, but I really don't like people pushing their opinions on others. I asked a question for clarification on Babywise and still really didn't get an answer, only bashing and opinions.

ToledoDeux · February 2010

BrideBuddies:
diana82:
ToledoDeux:

I'm still stuck at Babywise seeming like "common sense" to anyone, and AP seeming harmful.

Common sense doesn't actually get more basic than:

Baby Cries. Pick Baby Up.

THIS THIS THIS. Jesus H Christ people.

Oh for crying out loud, (literally). Do you really believe that people who do not fully buy into all AP philosophy or follow BW just allow their infants to lie there and cry until they're purple in the face and pass out?

Common sense, indeed.

Just going by the OP. Anyone who would consider any form of CIO at 4 weeks has no common sense.

And fwiw, I'm not an APer, nor do I really subscribe to any "philosophy" about parenting.

MattysGirl81 · February 2010

There is a reason why the author had to revise this book. Babies were being diagnosed with Failure to Thrive based on his "recommendations." I would never in a million years do anything he says.

SusieQ1982 · February 2010

MattysGirl81:
There is a reason why the author had to revise this book. Babies were being diagnosed with Failure to Thrive based on his "recommendations." I would never in a million years do anything he says.

Seriously. Why on earth would someone whose writings had to be changed because they were harming babies be used as a role model for parenting?

margeincharge2 · February 2010

jkfranklin:
So according to Babywise you are supposed to let your baby cry himself to sleep starting at 3 weeks. I thought you shouldn't do this until they are older, like 5 months. Am I misunderstanding something?

Since you seem to think no one answered your question, I will.

You do not let a 3 week old baby CIO. (Period). I don't claim to know babywise but regardless of what it says (not saying it says that) when a 3 week old baby cries, you respond. It's what all newborns (human or otherwise) do to get the attention of their mother to tell them they are needed.

If you want to use CIO later on when babies are capable of self soothing, you can look into it then.

As an aside, whenever I hear schedule and baby I do this ----> Tongue Tied

And for whatever it's worth, I have never let me DS cry himself to sleep and he sleeps just fine. He has sttn since about 12 weeks and we have never had to do any kind of technique or CIO.

christina-marie · February 2010

OP, it seems like no matter how many articles, studies or iron clad facts are presented to you, you will still stand by the idea that your LO needs to be on a parent led schedule at this very young age. So instead of trying to prove to you that nothing could be further from the truth with evidence, I'll attempt an appeal to your human nature. What if, when you went into labor,( an experience you had never had before, it was painful, it was scary, you felt panicked, you didn't know what to expect-you get the point) you called your DH who was in the next room and he said, "Nah...I'm going to finish what I'm doing first." You are crying, you are confused etc. Now imagine you couldn't speak, everyone around you spoke a foreign language you couldn't understand, AND you're immobile. That's as close as I can get to trying to explain what a baby, a newborn at that, is feeling when his/her parent ignores his/her cries. Can you imagine the phisiological stuff going on in your baby's body by that point? Increased heart rate, blood pressure, adrenaline...you get this don't you? I'm not saying don't do CIO when your LO is MUCH older...I'm saying nobody NOBODY on this board should even be thinking about CIO. This has nothing to do with CIO vs AP, and everything to do with common sense and listening to your baby's needs, THEY come first. Also at 6 weeks PP, I am now certain I still had tons of PP hormones going on. It's natural at your stage in the game to feel 1/2 confident and 1/2 confused especially being so soon PP. Read more than just that book. The authorship is questionable at best and it's better to get a wider scope on something as crucial as parenting a newborn. Best of luck! (sorry no paragraph breaks I'm bumping from my iPhone)

dmogmo · February 2010

jkfranklin:
diana82:
jkfranklin:
ToledoDeux:
jkfranklin:

I didn't mean for this to turn into a debate on Babywise vs AP I simply asked a question about Babywise.

Actually, you pretty much invited the debate when you said this:

jkfranklin:

After reading the book, it seems like common sense to me. I'm not into AP. I think AP causes more problems in LO and wears out the mom.

I only said this after I was attacked saying that Babywise was horrible.

Motherhood is tiring. At your baby's age it's not about schedules and convenience. End of story.

Yes it is tiring and I Babywise is about getting a baby on a schedule, which I 100% believe is possible. That being said, I don't expect my month old baby to stick to a schedule but having a good foundation IMO is a good idea. Right now, I know that if DS eats for a full feeding, 99% of the time I know that he won't need to eat again for at least 2 hours. This is a schedule right now. I know that when I feed LO I can go to Target and get some stuff and get home to feed LO (rather than feed him in Target).

I didn't mean to start a debate, but I really don't like people pushing their opinions on others. I asked a question for clarification on Babywise and still really didn't get an answer, only bashing and opinions.

HA. You wait. You're supposed schedule could be gone in the blink of an eye. Good luck.

mommy411 · February 2010

Sorry but your a idiot to let your 3 week old CIO....I'll throat punch you myself!

cstw · February 2010

I think most people that bash BW did NOT read the book. It really does not focus much on CIO. We did have DD CIO at 4 mos and it took all of 2 days before she could self-soothe when she woke up mid-nap and that was pretty much it. She's very mellow by nature though so I don't know if it's BW or not. If you are ever going to do some version of CIO, you cannot do it so young. 4 months is the absolute earliest I'd have done it. Mostly I took from BW the sleep-feed-wake cycle which really helped DD learn to sleep without having to eat in order to do it.

*KC*luvs*RJ* · February 2010

Babywise is evil. Do not follow Babywise.

Tonya_G · February 2010

jkfranklin:
jenny1980:
jkfranklin:

woolgathered:
I personally would never follow Babywise. It just sounds awful to me.

After reading the book, it seems like common sense to me. I'm not into AP. I think AP causes more problems in LO and wears out the mom.

I'm still rocking DS to sleep, but I don't pick him up right when he starts crying and sometimes he calms himself.

Well, sorry, but Babywise flies in the face of everything we know about infant development. In fact, the American Academy of Pediatrics has issued a statement about how dangerous following it can be (particularly related to the feeding schedules). This doesn't even get into the fact that it was written by two people with no qualifications who are currently estranged from their two grown children.
I really want to know how attachment parenting (ie: responding to baby's needs in a loving and attentive way) causes "problems" for the baby.

I don't understand how it can be dangerous? Like pp said, it's about parenting your baby. You feed LO when they are hungry, but not every time that they cry. There is nothing wrong with a baby crying and AP doesn't allow for this. I believe that babies should learn to soothe themselves and they can't do this if mom does it for them. Here is where you run into problems. I have a friend who AP and he is almost two years old and still not sttn.

Also, I don't understand how the authors being estranged from their adult children has anything to do with their advice on infants.

Well, hot damn, I'm AP, and my baby cries all the time. Maybe we missed the memo. Difference is, she's not crying all by herself somewhere- she's crying in my arms. She's not at an age where she CAN self soothe, nor is a single baby on this board. When she gets there, I'll let her take the lead (and she's starting to, b/c she's found her hands and will suck on them for comfort.) And, FWIW, my LO STTN, TYVM. Some kids have trouble STTN, no matter what method the parent uses- some kids just aren't good sleepers. I think there is a lot of misinformation about what AP is and is not out there...

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