Re: donating meds something I've always wondered

MontyMrs · February 2010

Isn't this illegal? I'm lucky to have meds coverage but hopefully I'll have some leftovers this cycle but I get concerned to donate my leftovers to girls on the board.

Don't you always have to have a dr's prescription to dispense meds legally? What if for some reason my meds weren't stored properly and the person I donated to had a problem or bad reaction to them, couldn't they sue me?

I'm not trying to stop the donation process which is great for many OOP women, but I have concerns. My clinic takes donated meds and gives them to cancer patients, which I might consider.

thoughts?

sweetky_06 · February 2010

From what I understand, every state has different rules about donating meds.

If you are concerned about the legal aspects, you can check out:

https://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=14425

njdcgirl · February 2010

Technically, yes I think it is illegal. I know it is def. illegal to sell them, but I think one of the regulars is a pharmist, and she's commented before that donation is tech illegal also. I've done it before, but I've been thinking about this lately too - I think this time I will give back to my RE if I don't need mine.

Echloe · February 2010

I have wondered the same thing. We aren't pharmacists and don't have a license to dispense drugs.

theworms · February 2010

I don't know the legality of donating meds. I know it's illegal to resell them.

I've donated gonal F and PIO to people.

I guess I've never thought about it that much. I would tell my RE that I am using meds given to me by a friend.

aj5oh00 · February 2010

My RE can't take meds because it's illegal for them to re-distribute in any way.

MontyMrs · February 2010

sweetky_06:
From what I understand, every state has different rules about donating meds.
If you are concerned about the legal aspects, you can check out:
https://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=14425

Thanks! I'll read this over later.

Chels0504 · February 2010

I don't know. But I do know that I have benefitted TREMENDOUSLY from the OOP meds exchange and it would a shame if we weren't able to do it anymore. It has been a life saver for me.

bridezillatobe2009 · February 2010

i think the legality of this for me is that speeding is illegal and yes there are risks but we all do it.

I don't see the harm in donating extra meds to someone who's physician prescribed exactly the same med as I was donating.its not as if I decided all of a sudden, hey I'm going to try gonal-f this cycle without any medical advice.

sometimes I wonder how the person responsible for the oop med check in knows that the people receiving the meds are actually being treated by an MD for IF. It would be so easy for anyone to come onto this site and pretend to being treated for IF but really they're playing dr at home for themselves.

Jaclyn278 · February 2010

Chels0504:
I don't know. But I do know that I have benefitted TREMENDOUSLY from the OOP meds exchange and it would a shame if we weren't able to do it anymore. It has been a life saver for me.

Me too!

Scigrlnyc · February 2010

It is illegal to redistribute ANY prescription medication for money or not. It's distribution of a controlled substance without a pharmacists license, and it's relevant for any prescription from antibiotics to painkillers.

This isn't to say people don't do it, or benefit from it, but it is illegal.

The main reason is a quality control issue. Once the medicine leaves the pharmacy and into your private possession there is no way to guarantee that it has been stored properly, hasn't been damaged, or tampered with. It's a HUGE safety issue. I understand that doctor's do it, but heaven forbid the day someone gets sick or injured from "donated" medicine, their medical licensure and career will be in peril. If you are doing it personally, you run the risk of being sued by the person, or charged with a crime.

MontyMrs · February 2010

Chels0504:
I don't know. But I do know that I have benefitted TREMENDOUSLY from the OOP meds exchange and it would a shame if we weren't able to do it anymore. It has been a life saver for me.

I certainly don't want this benefit for you and others to go away, I thought this issue should be discussed since there are legal issues involved.

Tab2710 · February 2010

bridezillatobe2009:

sometimes I wonder how the person responsible for the oop med check in knows that the people receiving the meds are actually being treated by an MD for IF. It would be so easy for anyone to come onto this site and pretend to being treated for IF but really they're playing dr at home for themselves.

I don't, actually! But I can say that I frequent the boards, and I only match up girls that I know I've seen before on the boards, so that's my sort of "system". If they don't have a nest name or they say that someone sent them from somewhere else, I usually don't continue. I guess I'm just doing the best I can, but if this is going to be a problem in any way then we'll have to stop the program I suppose...I don't want to get in trouble or get anyone else in trouble for that matter. It would be a shame though, because this program helps out so many wonderful ladies!

kthappy76 · February 2010

Officially I think it probably is, but I would guess the risk of a lawsuit is probably low given the receiver knows they are getting them outside a pharmacy and would be calling themselves out in the process.

njohnson1972 · February 2010

My DH mentioned the same thing when I told him about those donating meds.

And this is coming from a guy who didn't have insurance at one time and was ordering his meds from overseas - most of the time it was coming from India - and there is no regulation of that.

I honestly hope that I get to donate my meds one day. I think IF puts a whole different perspective on the issue, one that makes us turn the other way when looking at it.

bridezillatobe2009 · February 2010

Tab2710:
bridezillatobe2009:

sometimes I wonder how the person responsible for the oop med check in knows that the people receiving the meds are actually being treated by an MD for IF. It would be so easy for anyone to come onto this site and pretend to being treated for IF but really they're playing dr at home for themselves.

I don't, actually! But I can say that I frequent the boards, and I only match up girls that I know I've seen before on the boards, so that's my sort of "system". If they don't have a nest name or they say that someone sent them from somewhere else, I usually don't continue. I guess I'm just doing the best I can, but if this is going to be a problem in any way then we'll have to stop the program I suppose...I don't want to get in trouble or get anyone else in trouble for that matter. It would be a shame though, because this program helps out so many wonderful ladies!

oh hun I know you're doing everything possible to keep it as "legit" as possible and that's amazing! I by no means meant that to be interpreted as you not being careful, that being said, a person can only be so careful.

I love the support this board has to offer and this meds check in is just another form of support imo. so keep up the good work ladies!

Scigrlnyc · February 2010

kthappy76:
Officially I think it probably is, but I would guess the risk of a lawsuit is probably low given the receiver knows they are getting them outside a pharmacy and would be calling themselves out in the process.

Outing yourself in the process would likely not lead to you being charged with a crime, but could limit your legal claim to compensation. That being said, it would not take away your right to compensation as you could argue that the "distributor" knowingly did not store the medications properly or knew they were not trained to do so, but represented the medications as first quality.

jennim1984 · February 2010

I agree that I think it's technically illegal, but we all do have an rx for that med to be ordered from a pharmacy. Just not to receive it from that person. Yes I'd think it was wrong to give someone a drug and have them use it on their own unmonitored, but this is totally different.

kthappy76 · February 2010

Scigrlnyc:

kthappy76:
Officially I think it probably is, but I would guess the risk of a lawsuit is probably low given the receiver knows they are getting them outside a pharmacy and would be calling themselves out in the process.

Outing yourself in the process would likely not lead to you being charged with a crime, but could limit your legal claim to compensation. That being said, it would not take away your right to compensation as you could argue that the "distributor" knowingly did not store the medications properly or knew they were not trained to do so, but represented the medications as first quality.

Not sure this holds water as all you know for sure is that you are getting them from an unlicensed complete stranger who is really making no representation... But I didn't go past taking the LSATs... Sadly, there's potential risk and liability on both sides.

wiscgirl95 · February 2010

Chels0504:

I don't know. But I do know that I have benefitted TREMENDOUSLY from the OOP meds exchange and it would a shame if we weren't able to do it anymore. It has been a life saver for me.

This! Without the OOP meds and the swap with another patient from my RE we would have paid over $3200 for my meds. I think I paid around $750 when all was said and done. I even discussed this with my nurse and she just warned me of the same precautions that I had already thought of, make sure they are not expired and carefully check the dosage and packaging. After she gave me that warning she gave me the name and number of another patient with extra meds. She couldn't handle and switch to me but she could put 2 people in touch with each other.

I think if people were attempting to make a profit then we would have problems.

yodasmistress · February 2010

njdcgirl:
Technically, yes I think it is illegal.

However, I told my RE that I was using some donated meds in my November cycle and he said it was "fine" as long as I'm not selling them. I am not an anarchist but I am also not a blind-rule-follower kind of person. I look at the context of rules and decide if I think they're fair or not and then decide what I want to do. We ALL have scripts for these drugs - obtaining them as a donation only avoids having to pay for them. Therefore I don't have any moral qualms about it at all.

*Willis* · February 2010

I think both donating and receiving OOP meds is a (legal) risk you take. You have to weigh the likelihood of the chance of a lawsuit. Personally, I think it's pretty slim. But that's my opinion.

To be quite frank, I doubt many women on here have the "deep pockets" you look for in a lawsuit. Doesn't mean you couldn't be sued, just that you aren't the biggest target.

wiscgirl95 · February 2010

Scigrlnyc:

kthappy76:
Officially I think it probably is, but I would guess the risk of a lawsuit is probably low given the receiver knows they are getting them outside a pharmacy and would be calling themselves out in the process.

Outing yourself in the process would likely not lead to you being charged with a crime, but could limit your legal claim to compensation. That being said, it would not take away your right to compensation as you could argue that the "distributor" knowingly did not store the medications properly or knew they were not trained to do so, but represented the medications as first quality.

I disagree.

I think anyone attempting to collect compensation from someone without a MD or pharmacy license after their name would have huge hurldes in attempting to prove a claim for damages. First the donating party would have a very valid defense with assumption of risk. Second it would be very difficult for the injured party to prove the donating party didn't store or tampered with the medication in a negligent (or God forbid intentional) manner so as to create an unreasonable risk of harm when in all likelihood the donating party probably wouldn't have the requisite expertise to make any representations about medication quality.

*Willis* · February 2010

Scigrlnyc:

kthappy76:
Officially I think it probably is, but I would guess the risk of a lawsuit is probably low given the receiver knows they are getting them outside a pharmacy and would be calling themselves out in the process.

Outing yourself in the process would likely not lead to you being charged with a crime, but could limit your legal claim to compensation. That being said, it would not take away your right to compensation as you could argue that the "distributor" knowingly did not store the medications properly or knew they were not trained to do so, but represented the medications as first quality.

This isn't correct. A lot of this will hinge on your state's laws relating to contributory negligence.

Again, could you be sued? Sure. But with everything, you weigh the risks and consequences to see if it's worth it to you.

veronicacorningstone · February 2010

I would really hate for something as wonderful as this to be ruined by a lawsuit, or even threat of a lawsuit.

We're all big girls, we know the risk associated with getting meds from a "stranger." You should give up your rights to any type of lawsuit the moment you willingly accept meds from an internet friend. But of course, we know some people are sue happy. Sad

I have two unopened boxes of 300u Follistim that I am going to donate once I know for sure I'm not going to need them. They don't expire until late 2011, so I'm not going to throw them away, knowing there are women who could use them.

Hmmm, my BIL is an attorney...maybe I'd ask him to come up with some type of waiver the person my meds went to would have to sign to protect me from a lawsuit!

Scigrlnyc · February 2010

I spoke to my husband, who is a lawyer, and I also spoke to a pharmacist friend.

1. It IS illegal, under FEDERAL law to redistribute prescription drugs without a pharmacists license. It doesn't matter if you pay for them or not, if you know the person or not, or what the circumstances are. This is under the jurisdiction of the DEA and the FDA. Therefore it does not matter what state you are in.

2. Distributing these medications across state lines is an additional charge.

3. You can not waive your legal rights or sign any agreement to make it not illegal.

4. You could say all you want about being "sue happy", however if as a result of improperly stored or administered medications you lose your ability to support yourself, your family, or live, trust me, you'd sue.

5. Deep pockets or no, a lawsuit judgement against you could result in them taking all your savings, your house, and garnishing your wages.

I applaud all of you for your altruistic nature, however you really should be aware of all the legal risks and liabilities in engaging in this practice before you decide to do it.

While it is highly unlikely the feds will come after you, stranger things have happened.

yodasmistress · February 2010

Scigrlnyc - Just out of curiosity, do you have IF insurance coverage?

ginger67 · February 2010

I am so appreciative of this program. Its hard enough to afford the IVF let alone the meds. My RE knows some of my meds are donated, and insured IVF'ers give the clinic meds to donate. I see it as my risk to take donated meds but I have complete trust in the girls here, Tab does a great job "knowing" who everyone is. I wouldnt be able to do IVF without this help. What I would do for the privlige of IF coverage .

Scigrlnyc · February 2010

You've asked before and I've answered. I am OOP for all meds. However it's irrelevant as it is not a personal slight against "donated" meds. OP asked if it's illegal, and it is. Being for or against doesn't change that fact. If it were legal and safeguards were in place, then go ahead. I also think women considering participating should be fully informed of the risks and liabilities of receiving and donating meds. If you want to change the law, lobby your congressperson or assemblyman.

While it's a very nice thing to want to do that for someone else, you need to be aware of the risks, especially when doing this over the internet. Are the people donating collecting ID? Prescriptions? SSN? It's based on trust, which sadly, is very easy to obtain without cause in this media.

Some fertility meds have off label uses (some fertility meds ARE off label uses too), which could be obtained by unscrupulous or simply uninformed people. For example, HCG can be used for weight loss. Imagine a woman with an eating disorder gets these drugs posing as an infertile woman...then she dies and they find HCG vials and HCG in her bloodstream? The police are going to investigate where that drug came from.

Yes it's an extreme scenario, but within the realm of possibility. The law is no different for infertility medications than it is for steroids or other drugs.

In talking to my husband, who has legal experience in drug cases he rattled off about 10 such scenarios when I asked him about the practice of donating meds.

Mrs.AmandaMqn · February 2010

veronicacorningstone:
I would really hate for something as wonderful as this to be ruined by a lawsuit, or even threat of a lawsuit.
We're all big girls, we know the risk associated with getting meds from a "stranger." You should give up your rights to any type of lawsuit the moment you willingly accept meds from an internet friend. But of course, we know some people are sue happy.
I have two unopened boxes of 300u Follistim that I am going to donate once I know for sure I'm not going to need them. They don't expire until late 2011, so I'm not going to throw them away, knowing there are women who could use them.
Hmmm, my BIL is an attorney...maybe I'd ask him to come up with some type of waiver the person my meds went to would have to sign to protect me from a lawsuit!

Yes

I don't have any IVF coverage, I hope that I am able to benefit from donated meds and I sure as hell plan on donating any leftovers I have.

veronicacorningstone · February 2010

Scigrlnyc:
3. You can not waive your legal rights or sign any agreement to make it not illegal.
4. You could say all you want about being "sue happy", however if as a result of improperly stored or administered medications you lose your ability to support yourself, your family, or live, trust me, you'd sue. y the feds will come after you, stranger things have happened.

Well it seems like these two comments were directed toward me. The remark I made about having someone sign an agreement was a joke, but thanks for clearing up the legality of it for people who might not know.

And yes, people are "sue happy." You can't deny it. There are frivolous lawsuits being heard every day in courtrooms across America. I would hope to God someone wouldn't lose the ability to support their family because they injected warm Follistim. It's not a schedule 1 controlled substance. But hey, you're right, you never know what someone will do.

So thanks to everything you pointed out, I will not be donating my meds to strangers because I don't want to lose my home or, you know...have my wages garnished. I guess I will keep them for the IFers I know IRL, in case they need these one day.

Scigrlnyc · February 2010

Wasn't directed towards you in particular, even I was under the impression that you could do this, until my husband pointed out it would be an illegal contract (a contract made/or to ensure safety in conducting a prohibited activity).

yodasmistress · February 2010

Scigrlnyc - it's not irrelevant. In my experience it's much easier for someone who doesn't NEED a service to discount it's utility. One method of not needing the OOP meds donation would be to have insurance. Another would be to be wealthy. Since you're not the former I'm guessing you're the latter.

Your posts in this thread rub me the wrong way because they're riddled with a tone of condescension and moral superiority and seem designed to do nothing other than instill fear in women. Bad things can happen ALL the time. When we drive our cars. When we fly. When we get a Tylenol from someone at the office or an Ambien from a family member. We take these "chances" because the relative risk vs reward is relatively small. While the potential outcomes you've outlined are genuinely very negative, the probability of those outcomes is EXTREMELY small, therefore the expected value of the risk is also EXTREMELY small.

wiscgirl95 · February 2010

Scigrlnyc:

I spoke to my husband, who is a lawyer, and I also spoke to a pharmacist friend.

1. It IS illegal, under FEDERAL law to redistribute prescription drugs without a pharmacists license. It doesn't matter if you pay for them or not, if you know the person or not, or what the circumstances are. This is under the jurisdiction of the DEA and the FDA. Therefore it does not matter what state you are in.

2. Distributing these medications across state lines is an additional charge.

3. You can not waive your legal rights or sign any agreement to make it not illegal.

4. You could say all you want about being "sue happy", however if as a result of improperly stored or administered medications you lose your ability to support yourself, your family, or live, trust me, you'd sue.

5. Deep pockets or no, a lawsuit judgement against you could result in them taking all your savings, your house, and garnishing your wages.

I applaud all of you for your altruistic nature, however you really should be aware of all the legal risks and liabilities in engaging in this practice before you decide to do it.

While it is highly unlikely the feds will come after you, stranger things have happened.

I think the risk of suing or FDA/DEA prosecution is no different than the risk of you being prosecuted for dispensing legal advice without a license. Because that is what you're doing, no?

Most of what you said is sort of true and some of it is still wrong and I don't have the time to debate your husband via you.

In any event, this is a place for information and support and I hope to God this post doesn't scare the well intentioned women on this board in to flushing their meds when so many really need them.

Scigrlnyc · February 2010

Not discounting it's utility, I am sure it helps a great many people. The posts that say "it's fine" or "my RE says it's OK" rub me the wrong way because I know it's not, and what can happen from improperly stored or tainted meds.

Like I said, it's really great to want to do that for someone, but it doesn't make it any less illegal, which was the original poster's question.

I'm sorry you don't like my tone, but that may be because the subject matter is close to you. Not trying to scare anyone, just wouldn't want anyone to do something without knowing what they are doing, or getting false reassurances that it's OK.

nikinikinine · February 2010

it is illegal. However when I was at my RE's office yesterday I asked him about Menopur and he said that he didn't see any need for me to take it however if I am OOP for meds and my friends had donated me meds from their cycle he'd figure out how to use their stuff so that I could cycle for less money. So while I think it isn't a legal thing to do, it is understood and accepted as part of what we go through with OOP IF.

Scigrlnyc · February 2010

Nope, sorry, we do not have an attorney-client relationship, nor am I giving legal advice, I am merely stating something is illegal. You can take it or leave it. Nor did I say I was a lawyer, it's hearsay and I presented it as such.

I admitted the risk is small, and I understand people are passionate about this, however I would not want someone who didn't know better thinking that this was a legally accepted practice and there were NO risks, when it is not.

The risk is small, however the risk is small until something happens to you because of it, and then it is the biggest thing in the world.

A well intentioned woman could also ask her pharmacist about legal donated meds programs, and he/she would probably explain to her the same thing. If you want to help a woman get needed financial assistance, there are other ways.

yodasmistress · February 2010

Scigrlnyc:
I admitted the risk is small, and I understand people are passionate about this, however I would not want someone who didn't know better thinking that this was a legally accepted practice and there were NO risks, when it is not.

I call bullsh!t. Almost every single poster in this thread started their response with "it's illegal..." And NO ONE said there were NO risks. This isn't about you putting new and different info out there, it's about fear mongering.

Scigrlnyc:
The risk is small, however the risk is small until something happens to you because of it, and then it is the biggest thing in the world.

Yes, I agree. The possibility of getting struck by lightening is very small but if it happens to you, you still fry. However, I'm not going to let that stop me from going outside. Even in the rain!

Scigrlnyc:
If you want to help a woman get needed financial assistance, there are other ways.

Id est?

Scigrlnyc · February 2010

Starting a fund, holding a fundraiser, looking into charitable foundations or state programs?

I think it would be great if there was a charitable fund to help ladies pay for IF treatments, if one doesn't exist already.

It also bothers me when someone admits to something being illegal and then says to do it anyway, probably due to my upbringing and the career path many of my friends and family have chosen, but people willfully breaking the law has always bothered me.

yodasmistress · February 2010

It also bothers me when someone is such a drone that they blindly follow rules and can't think for themselves, probably because of all the independent thinking that many of my friends and family have chosen, but people witlessly following stupid rules has always bothered me.

Scigrlnyc · February 2010

Look, we are all grown women, and I don't expect anyone to do or not do anything they would normally do based on what they read (from me or anyone else) on the internet.

I personally don't think it's a stupid rule, but that's just me. You obviously do, and you can do with your body as you please.

However, I would not encourage women to do this without knowing EXACTLY what they are doing. You obviously feel differently and you can think for yourself, fabulous, so can any other woman on here.

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