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Success after IF
qtpa2t
member
Anyone else see "The Business of Being Born"?
qtpa2t
member
Just saw this movie/documentary - The Business of Being Born. ?Thoughts?
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Re: Anyone else see "The Business of Being Born"?
It was so-so. I thought it really made you think about a lot of things, but at the same time my hospital experiences have been so completely different that I just found it almost 'fake' for lack of a better description. It was *so* one sided and didn't really show any of the 'good' hospitals/doctors.
And yes, that part about the type of birth at the end made me mad too, and I've had two vaginal births!
This part enraged me and was one of the reasons that while I liked the film I would not reccommend it.
The comments were right up there with the BF nazis that like to tell women who FF that their babies will be fat and stupid because they are formula fed.
come on!!! this made me furious! and the one-sidedness was terribly annoying. the hospital bashing was a bit out of control. if you are going to do a proper documentary you have to be fair.
the irony in the end was brilliant though. thank god for hospitals right?!
2 infertiles' journey to 2 pink lines (and a baby girl)
"our IF story"
While there were aspects that I found informative and interesting, it was far from fair and balanced. I took from it what I wanted, but it did not change my mind about how I would like my birth experience to be--medicated in a hospital setting! (Heck, if offreed a c-section right now, I'd jump at it! LOL!)
Just like with most things in life, you've got to be able to process the information on your own and make the best decision for you and your baby.
I believ eyou can watch it at the website.
Google: The Business of Being Born
I have it on my netflix queue/Roku box and have seen clips before but I have been hesitant to watch it b/c of the things the pp's have said... I have a friend who delivered at one of the birthing places they highlight in the movie & she is hard core into all that stuff & one time we were chatting online and I mentioned that I was a likely candidate for a CS because of having twins & being very small framed & my mom had 2, etc and she basically was like 'don't let 'them' tell you that, you can do it' and I said well I'm ok with it, I just want the safest way to get both out and I wasn't really going along with the whole thing & finally she said "well, you can still have a positive pregnancy even if they're telling you that". ?
Uhhhh thanks? I wasn't aware you couldn't have a 'positive pregnancy' if you might need a c/s? I told her as much & haven't brought any of it up since. ?
I watched it online through Netflix. ?Worth seeing, I think. ?
Well...most documentaries are one sided if they're of this type so I don't think you can fault it for that. They obviously had a point they were setting out to make.
What I found most interesting were the doctors and nurses who admitted to all the crazy things surrounding birth in our country and how it's a lot about money, insurance, NOT evidence based, etc.
I loved it.
oh, and my favorite interviewee - the guy from the WHO "If you want a humanized birth, get the hell out of the hospital".
believe this if you want to. it's a "nice thought" if you haven't had your baby yet. having gone through a horrific labor experience with a child that was completely stuck I can whole heartedly say "be careful with what you say." had I not been in a hospital setting with the appropriate equipment and staff (I cannot even type this without crying) ginny would not be here. I'm not bashing home births by any means but don't beat up the hospitals and their care when you never know...
2 infertiles' journey to 2 pink lines (and a baby girl)
"our IF story"
ah the you just wait argument... I'm not saying there is never a need for medical intervention, clearly there is. But for the most part, people don't need to be having babies in hospitals and it's definitely not the most humanized way of looking at and "treating" birth for the general population. I'm not really going to get into it all, but i've done my research and I stand by my opinion.
This is so offensive to me.
I agree with Roaringrock all the research in the world does no good when it comes to medical issues. Yes many hospitals are in it to make money but that doesn't mean that all dr's have it out for you and aren't looking out for your wellbeing.
I went in having a med free labor and was never once encouraged to pushed to have an epidural, c-section etc etc
To make the blanket statements that this documentary has made is wrong IMO.
that's rude! it's not an "argument. it's a FACT! my beautiful daughter almost died and you better believe it that I thank my lucky stars over and over and over again that we had the medical care required. medical care that nobody anticipated after an unremarkable pregnancy. I will defend my ob, his brilliant staff and the hospital until the day I die. don't you dare go there with me with all "your research."
2 infertiles' journey to 2 pink lines (and a baby girl)
"our IF story"
Bravo Roaringrock Bravo!!
Birthing a baby is risky no matter how it is done and no matter how healthy a baby is. There is always a risk. Birthing a baby at home, IMO, is irresponsible and not a very well thought out process.
There is my controversial opinion. Roll with it.
And Tak is right, there is not enough research in the world to prove that it is safe enough. What is the research going to do for you if you are birthing at home and start having complications?
That is what a hospital is for. They have the expertise, and the right equipment to clear those complications
I don't think it was a 'just you wait' I think it was the opinion of a Mom who had issues...
The problem is, one doesn't know if there will be a crisis. I don't personally think there an issue with birthing centers and home births, in an uncomplicated pregnancy, as long as there is a contingency plan. My issue with this docu was that it was of course one sided, and it generalized. There are many many excellent OBs and good hospitals that do not offer unnecessary procedures and when they suggest intervention, they do it because they believe it is best for the safety of their patient. I venture to guess this film made people question good doctors. I actually think you should always question, but there comes a time when one must trust their physician.
I had a c section. I am diabetic and we had concerns that the baby would have high or low blood sugar and might need immediate assistance. E was born not breathing. This can happen at anytime, regardless of method of delivery, but I a glad it happened where there was O2 readiky available, as opposed to my bedroom. Did I think my birth experience was good? Hell no. I had a horrible experience, extremely painful, as my spinal wore off while my organs were not yet back in my body... but I still think that overall, the end result was good.... E was seen immediately by the pedi endo and we are both fine. Am I any less of a Mother? Do I feel any less connected to my child? Of course not. But after seeing TBOBB, I felt a little bit like I was supposed to.
I LOVED it! I have had my baby, and I know without a doubt that he would have been a c-section had I been in a hospital. He too was in a bad position causing me to be in horrific pain! I was 8 cms for 6 hours and pushed for 4 hours. He was monitored closely at all times while AT HOME! The difference between what would have happened to me in the hospital and what happened to me at home? Lots and lots of position changes and maneuvers by the midwives to change my little man's malpresentation. I will forever be grateful to them that they helped prevent a c-section.
I am most likely the only one here who has homebirthed and I have the unique perspective in that I actually work in a hospital setting in OB units as a registered nurse (I've done all aspects of women's health- L&D, high risk-antepartum, postpartum, NICU, newborn nursery, gyn, etc). This film was really not that far off base and is exactly why I knew I could NEVER birth a low-risk pregnancy in a hospital. Not in this country. We have it very wrong in this country and we cause many of the problems with our 'helpful' interventions. I compared the statistics of my midwives (who have been in practice for 25 years) with statistics of local doctor/hospital practices and honestly...I had a MUCH better chance of having a healthy baby/healthy mom by delivering with them at home or in the birthing center than any of the hospitals around me. I went with the odds on this one. I do wholeheartedly believe that we need hospitals and doctors. I have seen very dangerous conditions in moms and babies and some scary shiit in my 10 years of practice...but I still think for a low-risk pregnancy, we have a long way to go in the general hospital in this country. So, I think this film was amazing to open the eyes and maybe make some changes to how we birth babies and the choices women can make in their own birth experience (wherever that may be). If anything, I really hope women feel more empowered to be in control of their own birth and not to let an institution decide how their experience should be (and so little of what we do in the hospital is based on evidence-based research).
Sorry to be long-winded, but I am the only one here who has homebirthed on SAIF so I feel like my perspective should be heard (even if I am in the minority). Thanks for reading!
It's not irony - I think it was a great end to the documentary. Yes, absolutely thank goodness for hospitals when they're necessary. If you're low risk why not have your care with a midwife? IMO, a healthy low risk pregnancy under the care of an OB (a trained surgeon) is like going to see an ENT when you have a cold.
But that's what's right for me and my family. I'm glad that we have choices, as limited as they are in some place.
I agree with Trish.... Jesus H.. What century are we living in????
Homebirths are dangerous and irresponsible. People started having babies IN HOSPITALS MANY MANY years ago, for this simple fact...... Risk your own life and your babies if you want because you think hospitals are "evil"... but I can guarantee you will be thinking differently when you or you newborn are being rushed to the hospital in an ambulence because your "home birth" didn't go so well!
OMG, can we be friends?
I'd be homebirthing this baby I'm carrying if our insurance company would pay even part of it
We're using a freestanding birth center instead (and *only* having to pay 60% out of pocket - blah) and I'm happy with that. I'd rather be snuggled in my own bed though.
I agree with you on this but I also have to say that not all hospitals and OB automatically jump to c-sections etc.
I was never once pushed to have a c-section, epidural nothing because when I arrived I made it very clear that I wanted little to no intevention and I would tell them when I was wanted something. My plan was respected and I was never pushed for anything by my OB or my nurses.
I had a relatively quick L&D but I did push for 3 friggin hours before DS was finally born, like you he was in a weird position and to my OB credit he worked with me and my nurses to get him into a proper position.
Maybe I was lucky in that respect and have a good OB......
Are you serious?? The infant mortality rate in the United States is disgusting comparatively speaking. 29th in the world in 2008.
https://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/news/20081015/infant-mortality-us-ranks-29th
It's gotten worse since birth moved into the hospitals. In 1960 the US was 12th in the world. By 1990 we'd dropped to 23rd. Coincidence?
Double
.
I just wanted to add that I had an oxygen tank in my house by 36 weeks, all of the same drugs (minus the epidural) in my house that we have in the hospital and all of the equipment to resucitate a newborn and a mommy if needed. So, it would have been the same whether Patrick had not taken a breath in the hospital or at home (and I am a Neonatal Resuscitaion Provider-certified- so I know what this entails). But you would not have been a candidate for a homebirth based upon your high risk status and a hospital was absolutely the best and safest place for you to birth:-) You are one tough cookie!
Probably not worth responding, people are very polarized on this issue and those of us here in SAIF who are already mothers are also affected by actual birth experiences but...that said...(and obviously not being a mother yet) for me, watching that documentary helped me form the basis for what I would like my birth to be. I'm not set up mentally for a home birth (this time) but I really wanted a free-standing birth center birth and when my insurance (BCBS by the way) told me that not only would they not cover it but they would not cover any midwife care at all (a 100% exclusion) I recognized that at least a portion of what the movie was saying was true. An insurance company was in essence dictating my care and for an otherwise normal and healthy pregnancy I was now required, to be covered by insurance, to go to a hospital, have an OB and birth in a medicalized setting. That pissed me off.
I've gotten over it, have a doula that I'm paying out of pocket for, found an OB supportive of physiological birth options and recognize that of course once I've been there my mind may be changed completely by the reality of it all, but for now I credit that movie with forcing me to completely think out my options for a med-free, minimal intervention birth. After conceiving in a medicalized setting it was very important for me to know as much about the process as I could to try and avoid making the entire thing medicalized.
Thanks to the homebirth Moms who posted too -- I enjoy reading stories like that. So many of the birth stories are scary and I don't think that really helps anyone, appreciating that birth *can* be scary is very different than having it drilled into a pregnant woman's head that birth is always or has to be a medical emergency. No one should be marginalized for their birthing choices and at the same time if someone has done their research and decided that a non-medical birth is for them they shouldn't be relagated with stories of "near-death" experiences to support the reason for hospital births. Hospital births became the norm not because they were safer but because richer women in the Industrial Revolution wanted to birth cleanly without pain and without the stigma of a likely immigrant-midwife. It's true, look it up. The first wave of hospital births in this country resulted in more maternal deaths because of the poor cleanliness standards in hospitals at the time. No one is saying that's the case now but there's just as much info and fact on the side of those of us who want to be supportive of non-medicalized birth in this country as there is supporting hospital birth and one person's (or twenty or thirty persons) bad birth experiences that could have resulted in a death do not make those facts untrue.
My goal was to have a completely unmedicated birth. That went out the water when I ended up needing to be induced. However I was NEVER pressured into having an epidural, they NEVER even brought up a c-section to me and I checked in for my induction on a Thursday morning and my son wasn't born until Saturday.
Hospitals as not evil by any means. If having a vaginal birth is important to you then find an OB ahead of time that respects that wish. I did and I'm glad for it. They allowed me to continue my induction as naturdally as possible since my son was doing well. Sure I could have had my son at home or at a birthing center and he probably would have been fine. BUT.... considering *I* entered into this world via an emergency c-section I knew that sometimes things go wrong during an otherwise uneventful pregnancy and medical intervention is necessary.
And the whole part about c-section Mom's not loving their kids? WTF is that about? I was born via c-section and I have never felt anything but love from my Mom. That statement is just beyond ignorant.
just to clarify what I said from the very beginning, I have no problem whatsoever with people choosing home births. sh!t. have your baby in the ocean, on the space shuttle, bungee jumping... I don't care! I love the fact that in this day and age we are able to make these choices. more power to ya! "your body, do what you like!"
I do though, have no tolerance for the hospital bashing. not a friggin' morsel. I'm not saying every physician out there is a genius (see skoorb's post.) but as a wife of someone who just monday graduated with an advanced degree from yale medical school I find all the doctor/hospital beatings unacceptable and insulting. dh has put medicine first in his life. ginny and I are clearly second. he has devoted everything to research and saving people's lives. I am a "single mom" because of his career and dedication to helping people. he and dr f (my ob who safely delivered ginny) deserve nothing but respect.2 infertiles' journey to 2 pink lines (and a baby girl)
"our IF story"
Yes- we can be friends! Good luck on your birthing center birth! My insurance paid for my home birth but just recently, I no longer have coverage for the midwives and I am beyond furious and upset. If I get pregnant again, we can't afford to pay OOP for a home birth (DH got laid off in Janurary). I might be forced into a hospital and for that I am very, very bitter. It is not for everyone but I believe everyone should at least have the option to choose where they want to birth. But we will figure things out when the time comes because unless I am high risk, I really have no interest in being in a hospital.
I was debating having a home birth before watching the video. I think the video is good--very one-sided--but good. Before and after watching it, I just can't get over the "what if" factor. A need for a c-section is very real, and my DH and I don't live close to any hospitals. Plus and Heaven forbid, what if something is wrong with the baby? Unexpected problems do happen...I would never forgive myself if something was wrong with the baby and I wasn't close to a NICU.
Just my opinion. With that said, I think ppl (especially women) should support each other no matter what their choice. Home birth? Fine. Hospital? Fine. Csection? Fine. We all love our babies and want the very best for them.
Loved it - and I ended up having a planned C-section (baby was frank breech and tied up by his cord so could not flip or be safely born through a vag!) But I still love the movie - I think it presents a lot of important information and at least makes you THINK and not blindly accept every intervention a hospital may want to throw your way.
"When it comes to sleeping, whatever your baby does is normal. If one thing has damaged parents enjoyment of their babies, it's rigid expectations about how and when the baby should sleep." ~ James McKenna, Ph.D., Mother Baby Behavioral Sleep Center, University of Notre Dame
Wow. ?I'm kinda late to respond, but wanted to get in my two cents anyway.
I loved TBOBB. ?Watched it twice. ?As with any documentary, it is one-sided. ?That's kind of how documentaries are. ?I think that with movies like this, as with anything, it is a good jumping off point for doing your own research. ?
I did my own research and I will be giving birth at a free-standing birth center. ?I am a healthy and low-risk and have no reason not to believe that my body won't know what to do when the time comes. ?I am eating a healthful diet, exercising, and taking Bradley classes to prepare for labor. ?I paid $600 OOP for an ultrasound after my ins gave me crap about my referral so that I could see my baby and get the "everything looks great" about the pregnancy. ?
What I have learned (through a LOT of research) is that this is what the medical profession has done to the birthing process: ?they've trained women to doubt themselves, doubt their bodies, doubt their babies, and put everything into the hands of a doctor. ?They have made women afraid of the what-ifs and the maybes and as a result have taken something that used to be private and intimate and turned it into a medical procedure.
I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with women who choose to give birth in a hospital, women who choose epidurals, and women who have c-sections, elective or otherwise. ?What I do have a problem with is the assumption that women who choose homebirths or birthing center births are irresponsible, which has been stated several times in this thread. ?
My birthing center (same practice GermanWife used) has guidelines in place to ensure the safest birth possible. ?If I go into labor early (38 wks) or late (42wks) I will have to go to a hospital. ?If the baby is breech, I will have to go to a hospital. ?If I develop gestational diabetes, I will have to go to a hospital. ?If at any point during the delivery there is any reason whatsoever to think that the baby or I are in any danger, I will be transfered to a hospital. ?This decision was not made lightly. ?I am 100% confident in my birthing team, my husband's ability to coach me through labor, and my body's own ability to birth our baby. ? ?
Please don't make assumptions about my birth (or anyone else's for that matter). ?We are all adults and have all gone through SO MUCH to get where we are. ?I don't doubt for a second that every single one of us would do anything that would put our babies' lives at risk.?
Been gone all day and just checking back.
First of all, I didn't mean to offend anyone with my opinion. It's just that, my opinion. You have yours and it's different than mine and I can respect that.
I'm not going to get into it like I said, especially because since my last post there have been quite a few posters that have already said what I would have (showing the stats of our mortality rates being awful, homebirths being safer and having better outcomes for low risk pregnancies, the oddness of seeing a surgeon (Ob) for a healthy pregnancy, etc). Some of you definitely do not agree with all of that, but the stats are out there if you want to look into it and that's what my opinions are based off of.
That said, in no way did I say hospitals and doctors are evil and bashed them. My goodness. I simply thought that guy's guote was funny because of the way I believe birth to be (a physiological process) it IS dehumanzed to ME to see some of the stuff that goes on as routine in hospitals. But some people are cool with that and tha'ts great for them.
Like Gypsy, insurance has dictated how I can birth our child which sucks. I am, however, quite lucky to be with a midwifery practice, but they deliver in a hospital. So yeah, I'm going to that hospital that I, apparently, think it so evil.
Exactly.