IIRC, in most states though, the burden of proving self-defense is on the defense, not the prosecution.
Unable to even.
********************
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What was tray on doing that was so suspicious? He was a kid walking home on a sidewalk in the rain. What made him suspicious? His skin color. That is why this was racially motivated. If it had been a white teenager walking home the likelihood of Zimmerman following would be much less. ITA that the only reason Zimmerman followed him was because he had a gun.
I still maintain Florida is a f'ucked up state.nbsp;
I grew up there, so I can speak with authority.
It is. Beyond.
And I also agree, that if in your state a woman gets 20 years for discharging a firearm and a man kills a kid and gets nothing, you are doing something wrong.
This is a question of other bad law: mandatory minimum sentencing. The judge apologized while sentencing and wanted to give her less.
You don't understand the appeal of Benedict Cumberbatch / think he's fug / don't know who he is? WATCH SHERLOCK. Until you do, your negative opinion of him will not be taken seriously.
Right. That was my point. Many states require burden shifting to defendant to prove self defense since it is an affirmative defense. Florida is loony because all a defendant has to do is bring self defense into question then the burden stays with prosecutors to disprove it beyond a r doubt. Leading to scary results like this one.
This just seems crazy to me. Make sure you kill someone close enough to your size to hurt you, and make sure there are no witnesses, and hey, you're good!
As of 30 June 2013, 1,107,474 people had a permit to carry a concealed weapon. That means 1 in 14 people in the State could legally be carrying a firearm at any given time. Anyone living in the State or visiting the State should assume that the people they are interacting are armed with potentially deadly force, and treat everyone with the dignity and respect that they deserve as humans.
Zimmerman was within his rights as a CCW permit holder to have his weapon on him in the neighborhood on that tragic night. However, had he acted as a responsible person, there would be no news about this subject. He could have approached Martin, identified himself, and in a non-confrontational manner, asked what Martin was doing in the neighborhood, at which time he would have learned Martin was staying in the neighborhood and this wouldn't be news. He could have called 911 and reported suspicious activity like he did, and when told to let the police handle the situation, he could have. He made a terrible choice, and someone lost their life as a result. He's been found not guilty in the criminal court system (I would also like to interject that not guilty is NOT the same as innocent) but I wouldn't be surprised to see a civil suit. He won't ever get away from the terrible choice he made.
Martin could have called 911 to report Zimmerman following him and asked for an officer to come deal with Zimmerman but he didn't. His choice wasn't wrong, but it was just as deadly.
I believe in standing up for yourself and not allowing yourself to be bullied, but in a state like Florida, the choice you make to stand up for yourself could result in a gunfight. The person you shoot the bird for cutting you off in traffic *could* shoot you with a gun in response. I think if more people thought about the fact that they could potentially be getting into a confrontation with an armed person, they might behave differently.
I am going to insert an unpopular opinion/flammable confession here: when I was pregnant with my first child, I did consider getting a permit to carry a firearm. At the time, there were a number of stories in the news about pregnant women being kidnapped and having their babies cut out of their wombs. I didn't have time to attend the required classes to get a permit so I didn't. However, that is a time when I personally would have felt justified in using deadly force. Otherwise, I think that we have a police force for a reason.
As for the other case being discussed - Marissa Alexander and firing warning shots... she's being sentenced because of Florida's 10-20-Life law, which requires a judge to issue a mandatory sentence for felonies involving use or attempted use of a firearm or other destructive device. The State's Motion in Opposition for Immunity is pretty compelling ( https://www.scribd.com/doc/89763383/States-Motion-in-Opposition-of-Defendants-Motion-for-Immunity) , and though she was previously abused, I believe in this situation, she made a bad choice, and she's going to have to live with that choice, however unfortunate it may be.
Both Zimmerman and Alexander had a choice to leave the situation and not use their weapons. Both made terribly tragic choices, and will have to live with the consequences of their actions.
Both cases made me sick. A gun is not the answer in a confrontation. Self control is. Treat everyone you encounter like you would want them to treat you, or avoid them and seek professional assistance to deal with them if they won't leave you alone.
And with that, I just realized I am apparently a pacifist. Huh. Didn't see that coming.
"Last man standing" justice is right. When an idiot stalks an unarmed teenager at night for blocks and then kills him during the confrontation, the idiot should face penalties. Not in Florida though. As long as you can be safely assured of killing the only person who can refute your story, you have a good shot at getting away with the crime. The law is poorly and vaguely written and needs to be changed. No one who provokes a confrontation should be able to claim self-defense later, especially when the other person is the one who is unarmed. Does the law allow you to kill someone because you are losing a fight that you started?
Why the f is the burden of proving self defense not on the defense in fla? That makes zero sense. It's virtually impossible to prove a negative ie that someone was not acting in self defense. If defendant doesn't take the stand then it really is impossible. Good on ya, Fla!
As for the factual recount, i disagree. He was walking and he was black. Period. There's no evidence of anything else other than gz's words. What does walking between houses even mean? Was he peering in them? Trying to get in? There's no evidence of that. That's why profiling is so wrong. There was no suspicious behavior here. And suspicious behavior is the only thing that should matter before calling police, not someone's skin color. I posted a link to a video on the pce board that highlights how messed up this is in our country.
As for the previous post two key differences; it was based on repeated, suspicious behavior and no one told her to get personally involved. Call the cops and let them do their job. Gz felt emboldened by his gun and by the law in his state to take matters into his own hands. And now with this verdict, there are other zimmermans who are even more emboldened. Just great.
Uh because they constitution of the US provides us with the right of being innocent until proven guilty. Hence the burden of proof is always on the prosecution. That's the US legal system.
The principle if innocence exist in every constitution I know, and it's a perfectly reasonable one. AGAIN self defense doesn't spin from it. In my system it is the prosecution that needs to prove that the acts were committed, but it is the dfendant who need to prove that he/she acted in self defense. It is also clear that self defense needs to be proportionate to the agression one is repelling.
Look, we can go for days discussing the legal aspects of this, but the truth is that is it revolting to think that this guy took it upon himself to HARRASS a person who was doing nothing wrong and then ended up taking his life. Had he left it alone like he should had it would be a completely diferent story.
One thing the prosecution said and that really had me thinking is that being followed in the middle of the night by a stranger is a kid's worst nightmare. Trayvon was just a kid and I can't even image how scared he must have been. To think that he ended up dead while GZ walked away from this situation that HE provoked with his delusions and stupidity is enfuriating.
I haven't followed the case closely, but have a question for those who have. Why didn't Trayvon just go home? Why did there need to be any verbal confrontation at all--whether started by Trayvon or Zimmerman. My understanding, and again I haven't followed the case all that much, is that he could have just gone home.
If we are going on the premises of scared kid, and I think of myself in that situation I would have just gone home or to a house of a neighbor I knew or used my cell phone that I was on to call the police. It would have been opposite of my instincts to confront the person following me.
I think it's tragic--but really it's not more tragic then in my city where 91% of the homicides are black on black crime and few of them ever see justices because of the unwillingness of the community as a whole to testify (maybe rightfully so because they are in fear of their lives as well). I just think both are tragic and wish that media attention was given to both.
Why didn't George Zimmerman merely ask Trayvon Martin if he (GZ) could help him find where he was going?
There are a million different ways GZ could've handled this situation that did not involve killing Trayvon Martin.
Being as he was the adult in the situation.
Unable to even.
********************
You don't understand the appeal of Benedict Cumberbatch / think he's fug / don't know who he is? WATCH SHERLOCK. Until you do, your negative opinion of him will not be taken seriously.
Re: Zimmerman verdict
Unable to even.
********************
You don't understand the appeal of Benedict Cumberbatch / think he's fug / don't know who he is? WATCH SHERLOCK. Until you do, your negative opinion of him will not be taken seriously.
Florida's self defense law is different. The prosecution had the burden in Florida. I think that's the difference that has people upset and scared.
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This is a question of other bad law: mandatory minimum sentencing. The judge apologized while sentencing and wanted to give her less.
My Blog
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********************
You don't understand the appeal of Benedict Cumberbatch / think he's fug / don't know who he is? WATCH SHERLOCK. Until you do, your negative opinion of him will not be taken seriously.
This just seems crazy to me. Make sure you kill someone close enough to your size to hurt you, and make sure there are no witnesses, and hey, you're good!
The facts in Florida are:
As of 30 June 2013, 1,107,474 people had a permit to carry a concealed weapon. That means 1 in 14 people in the State could legally be carrying a firearm at any given time. Anyone living in the State or visiting the State should assume that the people they are interacting are armed with potentially deadly force, and treat everyone with the dignity and respect that they deserve as humans.
Zimmerman was within his rights as a CCW permit holder to have his weapon on him in the neighborhood on that tragic night. However, had he acted as a responsible person, there would be no news about this subject. He could have approached Martin, identified himself, and in a non-confrontational manner, asked what Martin was doing in the neighborhood, at which time he would have learned Martin was staying in the neighborhood and this wouldn't be news. He could have called 911 and reported suspicious activity like he did, and when told to let the police handle the situation, he could have. He made a terrible choice, and someone lost their life as a result. He's been found not guilty in the criminal court system (I would also like to interject that not guilty is NOT the same as innocent) but I wouldn't be surprised to see a civil suit. He won't ever get away from the terrible choice he made.
Martin could have called 911 to report Zimmerman following him and asked for an officer to come deal with Zimmerman but he didn't. His choice wasn't wrong, but it was just as deadly.
I believe in standing up for yourself and not allowing yourself to be bullied, but in a state like Florida, the choice you make to stand up for yourself could result in a gunfight. The person you shoot the bird for cutting you off in traffic *could* shoot you with a gun in response. I think if more people thought about the fact that they could potentially be getting into a confrontation with an armed person, they might behave differently.
I am going to insert an unpopular opinion/flammable confession here: when I was pregnant with my first child, I did consider getting a permit to carry a firearm. At the time, there were a number of stories in the news about pregnant women being kidnapped and having their babies cut out of their wombs. I didn't have time to attend the required classes to get a permit so I didn't. However, that is a time when I personally would have felt justified in using deadly force. Otherwise, I think that we have a police force for a reason.
As for the other case being discussed - Marissa Alexander and firing warning shots... she's being sentenced because of Florida's 10-20-Life law, which requires a judge to issue a mandatory sentence for felonies involving use or attempted use of a firearm or other destructive device. The State's Motion in Opposition for Immunity is pretty compelling ( https://www.scribd.com/doc/89763383/States-Motion-in-Opposition-of-Defendants-Motion-for-Immunity) , and though she was previously abused, I believe in this situation, she made a bad choice, and she's going to have to live with that choice, however unfortunate it may be.
Both Zimmerman and Alexander had a choice to leave the situation and not use their weapons. Both made terribly tragic choices, and will have to live with the consequences of their actions.
Both cases made me sick. A gun is not the answer in a confrontation. Self control is. Treat everyone you encounter like you would want them to treat you, or avoid them and seek professional assistance to deal with them if they won't leave you alone.
And with that, I just realized I am apparently a pacifist. Huh. Didn't see that coming.
This GIF pretty much summarizes my feelings on this topic.
The principle if innocence exist in every constitution I know, and it's a perfectly reasonable one. AGAIN self defense doesn't spin from it. In my system it is the prosecution that needs to prove that the acts were committed, but it is the dfendant who need to prove that he/she acted in self defense. It is also clear that self defense needs to be proportionate to the agression one is repelling.
Look, we can go for days discussing the legal aspects of this, but the truth is that is it revolting to think that this guy took it upon himself to HARRASS a person who was doing nothing wrong and then ended up taking his life. Had he left it alone like he should had it would be a completely diferent story.
One thing the prosecution said and that really had me thinking is that being followed in the middle of the night by a stranger is a kid's worst nightmare. Trayvon was just a kid and I can't even image how scared he must have been. To think that he ended up dead while GZ walked away from this situation that HE provoked with his delusions and stupidity is enfuriating.
I haven't followed the case closely, but have a question for those who have. Why didn't Trayvon just go home? Why did there need to be any verbal confrontation at all--whether started by Trayvon or Zimmerman. My understanding, and again I haven't followed the case all that much, is that he could have just gone home.
If we are going on the premises of scared kid, and I think of myself in that situation I would have just gone home or to a house of a neighbor I knew or used my cell phone that I was on to call the police. It would have been opposite of my instincts to confront the person following me.
I think it's tragic--but really it's not more tragic then in my city where 91% of the homicides are black on black crime and few of them ever see justices because of the unwillingness of the community as a whole to testify (maybe rightfully so because they are in fear of their lives as well). I just think both are tragic and wish that media attention was given to both.
Why didn't George Zimmerman merely ask Trayvon Martin if he (GZ) could help him find where he was going?
There are a million different ways GZ could've handled this situation that did not involve killing Trayvon Martin.
Being as he was the adult in the situation.
Unable to even.
********************
You don't understand the appeal of Benedict Cumberbatch / think he's fug / don't know who he is? WATCH SHERLOCK. Until you do, your negative opinion of him will not be taken seriously.