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September 2013 Moms
UO thursday
This discussion has been closed.
Re: UO thursday
When I was 19 years old I had a medical abortion at 7 weeks. I took a series of pills that told my body to miscarry. I paid for the abortion completely out of pocked ($550) and it was carried out in a clinical, safe environment. To those who say "But birth control is everywher!" Yes, yes it is. But it DOES fail.
To this day, I do not regret my decision one bit. It was the best decision for myself, my then-BF and our families. Even after having one child and with another one on the way, I still do not regret my decision.
Judge away, but until you've been in my shoes, you have no idea what it's like. I'm beyond thankful I had the option and CHOICE that I did.
I actually posted a question about epidurals because of how terribly sick anesthesia and a lot of medications make me. I did do research on it but didn't really find info one way or the other and it's something I will discuss with my dr but I was curious if others had a reaction. Is that something that would be annoying to you? I don't want to be an irritating poster! I obviously wouldn't ever base a decision solely on the feedback of internet strangers but it was helpful for me and made me feel a bit better in case I do end up getting an epidural.
I agree that a lot of them are stupid common sense questions or just out and out ridiculous like all the weight posts but when people are being sensible, I do like hearing other's experiences or opinions.
DST T4L
Candy Crush and basically every other Facebook Game.
Not sure why people constantly invite me to play. I feel like I could throat punch some people because they keep inviting me to play. Not only do I not have time for that crap I simply am not that interested nor will I ever be. You would think they would stop after I asked them to but nope, I guess they really need to get their bonus points or extra life or piece of candy to continue on with their day.
So we have resorted to name calling now. Classy.
I could not agree more. Too many church members do not understand why it is a problem. Such a pity.
OMG I am kind of laughing right now. I was just pulling a random example that I have seen, not just from this board but others as well. I was not trying to point fingers at one person or the other. If I was I would have said something directly to you.
But my opinion still stands. If you have a certain spinal condition you need to talk to your OB and an anestesiologist about it, not random people on the internet for their experience.
Lets say Nancy123 was in a car accident, got pregnant, and had a successful epidural. Her experience will have no bearing on whether or not you will be able to. Only your doctors will be able to tell you it the placement is even possible. IMO, hearing from others on where you could/should/can will mean nothing when you are actually in labor and wanting pain meds. You can use the argument (not saying you will, just a general you) that well this woman had some sort of spine issue that I have no detailed info on and was able to get one, I should be able to as well.
Well, this is way the USA is going to with the new healthcare policies. It's a slippery slope.
I completely agree, I love your posts! You're so concise and reasonable, this honestly made me think about my own life and what I could be doing. We recently moved to the tiny little town I grew up in and I seriously need to educate myself about what more I can be doing for the church and our community. Thank you for motivating me!
You can block invites to those games in the game center when you receive another notification...
Haha, no, no, I know you weren't finger pointing! I just don't want to put up questions if others are irritated by them because we have plenty of posts that really are pointless and stupid. If I had a serious medical problem, like the spinal injury reference, then I agree, that's not something where other people's opinions could even help our matter. But I do like a lot of the btdt questions just to see what others went through or how they feel. Lol, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound overly sensitive or self conscious, I just don't want to add to the other annoying posts!
My kids eat steamed veggies all the time when we go out to eat. They also eat salad. I think it is ok to have a treat every once in a while, but when you go out to eat you are already eating something that is likely not 100% great for you as is!
If you want to post questions that have been asked before, go for it. I personally will not be responding to many if any at all. You can always bump google it to bring up previous threads as well.
Wow! Interesting today. I will skip the abortion discussion, but I do want to say Rev Laura, I completely agree! Having worked with the church for a long time and seeing what goes on with others, it would be nice to see people stand up and DO more, rather than just yell from the side of the road about what they want OTHER'S to do. Get up and get involved.
My UO, I want to see World War Z, but I can't stand Brad Pitt. I feel I will suffer through it for DH, but man... that guy and his lisp just drive me batty!
2. While I may never choose to get an abortion, I do not think that because I don't want/agree with it I should be able to tell someone else that they can't have it. there are so many variables that can play into getting in that situation and what can happen after that its just not my choice to make for someone else.
3. Im 24 and grew up watchin Miley Cyrus on the Disney channel.. I loved her than.. now I think she has just lost it and i really can't stand her anymore.. Her video was beyond stupid and I have no idea why so many kids are still in love with her.
4. I always try to think of an UO that I have and can never think of it on Thursday.. then like Sunday hits and I think of one.. oh the issues I have
While I would never get an abortion myself, I support a woman's right to have one and I don't think it should be outlawed.
I actually read a really good book in college on abortions in my women's studies class. It explained how even though abortions were illegal back in the 50s and 60s, they were still going on. Making them illegal won't stop them. It only makes them more dangerous for all involved.
The rich would either pay off doctors to perform them, or they would take their daughters/wives to Europe disguised as fancy trips, when in reality it was to get an abortion and to recover.
If the woman happened to be poor or a minority, well she was SOL. She either had to resort to a back alley doctor that resulted in bad infections/injuries, and sometimes death. Or she had to cross the border into another country (usually Mexico) to get it done. But most couldn't afford the trip and most of the doctors there were just as bad as the back alley doctors. The really eye-opening thing about that book was that it said that women that are pro-life are more likely to get an abortion than someone that was pro-choice.
LO then (2 days) and now (1 year)
There you go again with the name calling. Why don't you offer a rebuttal instead of calling me a name?
This may just be me, but every time I try to relive my childhood I end up realizing it isn't as cool as I remember. For instance, Pop Rocks and Faerie Tale Theater. I loved both when I was a kid and had such great memories, but when I tried to eat Pop Rocks and watch FTT I was so disappointed. That's when I decided that I couldn't try to go back. Lol
I do imagine older women screaming like little girls and throwing their panties on stage and it skeeves me out. Lol
What kind of facts are you looking for Aurora? You highlighted a previous statement of mine where I commented that babies are human. Do you disagree with me? Is there any question in your mind that the baby is your belly isn't indeed a small person? Or was it the part about babies don't feel pain? Well, I personally don't need proof of this, but if you really want to educate yourself, why don't you Google the murder trial of the Philly physician Kermit Gosnell. Why don't you look up the testimony from some of the people that worked in that clinic. Then you tell me? People want to make this subject so clean and use arguments that are extreme like rape, incest, and life of the mother being the reason people makes the choice to abort. I am not against it for many of those extremes. The fact of the matter, Aurora, is that many people are not in these extreme situations when they decide to abort. I think people should start educating themselves on what really goes on or what could happen should they decide to end the life of the unborn. It not always just a clean medical abortion. It's messy and people's physical and mental health are affected after making a decision like that...
So as for proof, I don't need it! But if you do, why don't you read some of that testimony and tell me that those babies weren't human and didn't feel anything. I love those babies and I don't give a crap what you have to write about that!
What is your evidence for them feeling pain other than "of course they do?" At what point of development do you believe a gestating human "feels pain?" Conception? If so, I'm sorry, I have to laugh in your face. A little bundle of cells cannot feel pain. Period. When pain is felt is being debated because it's not a cut and dry issue.
And I'm not even going to address the rest of your post. Lets just say I'm vehemently pro-choice.
Please don't go. Just don't read this drivel.
I have to (mostly) agree with auroraloo on this one. I'm all for people saying that in their opinion abortion is just so morally wrong it should be banned (I'm pro-choice). I'm also for people holding the opinion that human life begins at conception. I'm NOT for the opinion that zygotes can feel pain at conception, because it's just NOT TRUE.
As for the 20 weeks thing, well, it's being debated because it's not a black and white issue. You can hold the opinion that at 20 weeks a fetus feels pain, but you need to acknowledge that it's a opinion alone, instead of saying "of course they do." Science does not say definitively that they can feel pain at 20 weeks and if anything it would say it's later on, but it's complicated because pain relies on a network that starts forming well before 20 weeks but is not complete until well after.
Oh gawd you're one of those.
GL to the rest of the board. Enjoy your cray crays.
"We like nothing better than buffing our Zygoma. And imagining a horny time traveling long overcoat purple scarf wearing super sleuth nordic legend fuck fantasy. Get to work on that, internet." Benedict Cumberbatch
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"We like nothing better than buffing our Zygoma. And imagining a horny time traveling long overcoat purple scarf wearing super sleuth nordic legend fuck fantasy. Get to work on that, internet." Benedict Cumberbatch
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How do you not need proof of this?! Do you know how pain works? It relies on a neural network and a brain. A gestating human does not have those things at the point of conception. They're in the works but not formed at 20 weeks, which is precisely why it's up for debate.
OK, BAD example. Honestly, whenever Kermit Gosnell is invoked it is +1 for pro-choicers. He is the reason we should have more oversight and less vilification of abortion. He is precisely what we're talking about when we're talking about how making abortion illegal puts human and fetuses at major health risks. What testimony tells us something about whether fetuses at 20 weeks feel pain? Or were you actually talking about the fetuses that were killed at 38+ weeks and were viable & living before being slaughtered? That's not an abortion. That's delivering a child and then murdering it. Very different and completely not what any pro-choicer is even advocating for.
Seriously you're invoking Gosnell and you're calling the pro-choicers extreme?! WOW. Well I'll say it -- I think it's perfectly ok for a woman to choose to abort an "oops" pregnancy that she could have prevented but didn't by her own mistake, very early on in the pregnancy (like 8 weeks or less). Yes, that is the vast majority of abortions (or just like that but attempted birth control failed), and if we cut the crap and let them be more available (as well as much more available birth control & education), they'd happen even sooner, at 6 weeks or earlier. You can look into how developed an embryo (see, not even a fetus!) is at that stage and you're not going to be able to find evidence of pain, etc. You may believe a human "soul" is present at that time which is why I understand the topic of abortion is a very dicey one, and I won't argue with you on that one because it's not something that science can really speak to. But at 8 weeks the embryo is biologically most similar to primitive species that we never have any issues with killing, e.g. a shrimp. I understand that biologically is not the same as spiritually, so that's just not something I'll speak to.
I also happen to be in favor of women choosing to abort later, because a) those cases are exceedingly rare and b) they tend to involve extenuating circumstances, like the mom's life/health being at risk, or the baby having a disorder that will prevent it from being viable for more than days after birth.
Sure...and people need to be educated on what happens if they carry the baby to term. Seriously, in a LOT of these cases that you're bringing up, (2nd tri and later), it's SAFER to get the abortion than to carry the baby to term, which is why the abortion is happening in the first place!
As long as we're on the topic of education, why can't we just educate people on birth control in the first place and make it more available? I'm not saying you're this way at all, VCK, given that you made a comment about birth control, but one thing that drives me mad about this "debate" is that the people who are anti-abortion also tend to be the ones who want to limit birth control education and birth control access. Give me a break. If we just followed what the typical pro-choicer / planned parenthood opinion was for policy, we'd actually have a whole hell of lot FEWER abortions in this country. No one likes abortions and thinks they're a good thing. Lets just try to prevent pregnancies. It would be great if "abstinence" worked as a tactic but seeing as that has been proven false time and again, lets do what works and teach people about birth control and make it available. It's a public health issue, a women's rights issue, a moral issue, and perhaps most of all an economic issue.
OK, yeah, the testimony I've seen is about babies that were BABIES, not half-form fetuses.
Personally, I like to have evidence when I make claims and have opinions. I guess that's the flaw of being a scientist....
FWIW, VCK, props to you for posting an UO. I mean that in all seriousness.
I didn't actually know about the 15 states covering it. What I was referring
to is government, who I give close to 40 percent of my income to, is funding abortions by giving a subsidy to the
individual to buy insurance which
covers abortion.
Also, why do you need a peer reviewed journal article to prove this to you? We are not trying to find out if a bandaid is gonna stick. We are talking about a human life and science does not explain everything.
I love how so many of you refer to your own baby as a baby, buy when the abortion debate starts up, it's a fetus. Why weren't you referring to it as a fetus when we were all in the first trimester? I guess the unwanted are just a fetus', but the wanted are babies, huh?
She said 40% of her income goes to the Government who in return wants to fund abortions
Honestly, I refer to my "baby" as a fetus when I'm speaking to people I know well and who wouldn't be freaked out by it (e.g. scientist friends, husband, etc). I'm not even going to tell you DS's nickname when he was in the womb because it would probably appall you (lets just say it was clever and scientific). I say "baby" when I'm talking to people out in the world because that's socially acceptable to everyone else, and it's more that I anticipate an actual baby at the end of it. It's not a baby now, though, it's a fetus.
In the majority of the first trimester I referred to it as an embryo because it was not yet a fetus.
Riiiiiight..... This silly girl thinks 40 percent goes right to abortions....
I do believe in science, but don't need a peer reviewed journal article to tell me it hurts when I stick my finger into a flame. God forbid if someone ever actually tried to put together a study of when babies feel pain...the horror.
You should have really shut up awhile ago.
Liam Dean | 09.11.12 | 6lbs 13oz
You don't need a journal article to tell yourself or us when YOU feel pain. That's clear! But how do you know when/whether a fetus of a particular gestational age feels pain? There are adults who don't feel pain when they stick their fingers in a flame, because they have a neurological disorder that has disrupted the signal somewhere from the pain receptor in the skin to the brain (luckily this is exceedingly rare). This pathway is not even formed in developing fetuses. It's because you can't invoke facts like this that people are claiming you don't "believe in science."
Sorry, I am not a scientist. Since you are and very educated on the subject, tell me, what is the correct term for the little one that was born yesterday from our birth club? Is she still a fetus, baby or something else?
Before you get back to your microscope, please share when the pathway is developed in fetuses.
Listen, I understand that science isn't going to weigh in on when a human "soul" develops or anything like that because that's all about God & faith. Maybe human life begins at conception and that human life is somehow sacred compared to other species that we have no problems killing for food or whatever. That can be debated with opinions and whatnot and science won't really have much to say about it one way or another because it's not science's place to say something about it.
But science can weigh in on pain, which is absolutely not present at conception. We know a lot about it and we have the tools to find out more about it with future experiments & investigations. But we don't know everything about it and this is precisely why it's being debated about when a fetus can or can't feel pain as it develops. A fetus does NOT feel pain the way an adult does. I don't see how this is difficult to understand. Even in born, developed humans, sensory receptors and pain pathways change over time. You can feel pains now that you couldn't as a child and baby (menstrual cramps!) You felt sensations then that you don't feel now (e.g. they say don't tickle/stroke a newborn's skin because it is too intense and doesn't feel good to them). So even if you believe a fetus is a human life (and that's where science does NOT want to have an opinion), why is it so hard to believe that a fetus is incapable of feeling pain at 20 weeks or earlier?
I am SO excited that this is how I come across!!
It pretty much sums up how I feel! Thanks auroraloo!
Mom to Cam and Al, now expecting baby number 3, August 2016. Praying for lots of sticky baby dust!
LoisLayn posted the answer to this right below you. Three articles stating that 3rd tri is when pain is most likely felt (like, 10 weeks after what is being debated in congress, and when you say "of course they feel pain.")
I did see your post about Direy...I had not seen that she had had her baby yesterday and my heart goes out to her. I really hope that her baby is doing ok, but was glad to see that at 27 weeks a baby tends to be viable 95% of the time. My sister had her twins at 29 weeks and they turned out really great (no lasting issues) so I'm really optimistic for Direy. As for the term, I looked it up with google and it's "very premature baby." I think that if the baby is viable you say "baby" once it is born, even though developmentally they are no farther along than the fetuses we are still carrying.
It is so unbelievably vile that you would drag someone facing the birth of a preemie into this. I was with you being free to express your opinion (even if much of it is wrong when looking at fact based evidence) until this. This is disgusting.
Thank you thank you thank you. The fact that another woman's premature baby was used as an example is really unbelievable to me.
Mom to Cam and Al, now expecting baby number 3, August 2016. Praying for lots of sticky baby dust!