UO

sooner1981

First, I don't believe anyone ever advocated exposing any part of the breast unnecessary to the actual feeding of your specific child. As I said, needlessly exposing more of your breast than necessary doesn't do anything to help normalize nursing in public. Just because one woman has a baby who won't nurse under a cover doesn't mean all women should do so or need to do so. Again, nursing in public isn't about being sexy or flashing skin. It is about feeding a baby.

So, personally, I just don't get the whole "respect" argument. I might ask my husband if he is okay with me going topless at a beach out of respect. I wouldn't even dream of asking him if he is cool with me nursing in public beacause I just don't see how nursing in public is somehow "unecessarily immodest or sexy."

And I only brought up NateLady's previouslystated and defended position because I thought it demonstrated that she and I are obviously just on totally different wavelengths and are probably not going to ever reach agreements on issues of gender roles and the ways that we should "respect" our husbands. Nothing more intended.

redheadscu

Uh-oh. Looks like I'm about to get voted off the island for defecting from the Sooner-You-Are-So-Wise Club.

NatnDyl

"Ah! So if someone asks their husband about their feelings on the possible exposure of the breast (which, I believe was actually the issue here -- not NIP, but doing it without a cover or in such a manner more likely to expose the breast), then obviously that means she cares more about submitting to her husband than about feeding her baby. (insert sarcarsm here). Got it!

Also, way to change the argument by throwing in the part about a different week's controversy. Sneaky sneaky!"

-Quote from Redheadscu

It sounds like a waste of time discussing things that might possibly happen, but that you intend to take precautions against. I NIP and use a cover when DS will let me. Because I embarass easily and have no great desire to show my goods to the world, I attempt to be discreet, but que sera, sera. If everyone agrees that they do not want to flash the general population, why would anyone need to discuss how their husband felt about it?

To me, its like having a discussion about not crashing the car. Every day, I do not want to be in a car accident, I take the necessary measures to avoid one at all costs. Sometimes you are in an accident anyways, your fault or not. Why would you discuss it before hand? "DH, how would you feel if I crashed the car?" "not great" "me either"

Also, some of the things Nateslady said last week really rubbed people (including me) the wrong way and so yes, I do look at her posts differently than I might if she hadn't said such inflammatory things.

redheadscu

The tribe has spoken.

jja0812

I think we need to move on. The two sides are not even arguing the same issue. I am beginning to seriously question some of the reading comprehension skills around here.

 

Jen0204

redheadscu:

Uh-oh. Looks like I'm about to get voted off the island for defecting from the Sooner-You-Are-So-Wise Club.

Yes, because no one has ever disagreed with her before. 

FWIW, I think the same thing whenever I read NatesLady's posts. She offended many people on this board, and I'm sure quite a few people read her posts differently then they did before. People's opinions of each other on here are formed by what we write so it only makes sense that people will remember of someone says something that really offends them.

MollySm

Lawren:

I totally think people vote for their own kid in the photo contests.

I don't do that, but I do wait until the end of the day to vote.  If the person I like best is winning by enough, I often vote for my 2nd or 3rd place pick because I want them to know that people liked their photo.   

 That being said, the person I like best is rarely winning, because apparently I have really bizarre taste in pictures!  I'm often way off the mark in terms of the general consensus.

pinkshades05

Wow, I missed a lot today, but I am finally caught up! So here are my two cents:

I can totally understand what the moms are saying when they talk about asking their husbands first before found NIP sit in. My DH freaks out about it, too, because to him it's just weird. Moms find it uncomfortable and so do dads. FTR, I nurse anywhere I need and never needed to ask my DH, but I can understand why they would ask. I'm sure by the next kid this will be old hat!

I didn't like the siggy challenge, but I deal with it because others do like it. It won because the rest of us split our votes between 3 other choices. NBD!

The comment by Jen about the studies was interesting. You always have to be careful with what you read because everyone is biased including you! I read a study that I disagree with and I look for flaws. A study I agree with I will probably overlook those flaws. Either way, the study will make me think about the topic a little more objectively.

Yes, I voted for Nat in a photo contest. Only once, but it made me feel better. I usually vote different people. I wish we could vote top 3 to share the love!

Shmogan09

I am late to this but my reaction is very simple on the NIP issue...

I never even thought to discuss it with DH and he with me.  I am not an exhibitionist and DH knows this so I just assume he trusts me to feed DS in the way he and I need to do it.  BFing is between a mother and baby.  

To me, the problem is not women's rights but just the fact that you shouldn't feel like you need to discuss with your husband how you feed the baby (IMO).  It should be a mutual understanding that you will do what is best for the baby without being inappropriate.

If DH needed to discuss this with me I would tell him to trust me or grow boobs. Simple.

Mistifier

Ainslie325:

Mistifier:

My UO: sometimes feminists irritate me. If I decide to be a SAHM that doesn't mean I don't care about women's rights, and it is not going to make me unfit for rejoining the workforce down the road. I know many women who were SAHM till their kids were in school and they have great careers.

Am I a feminist because I choose to work and find value in it, or am I a feminist only if I criticize you for not choosing to work?  Such criticism of a SAHM is not feminism.  It's not anti-feminist to leave or take a break from one's career in order to raise one's children.  It's not feminist to choose to work.

As for whether it will make you "unfit" for rejoining the world of work later on, "unfit" is a strong word.  Depending on how much later, though, you may find yourself trying to convince a potential employer of your value after a break of many years.  That employer may also see you as lacking in recent experience, professional relationships, perhaps left behind with regard to job-realted technologies, and out-of-date on job specific regulations, etc.  

My OU (inspired by, but unrelated to, the post I quoted): Women often lament that we are still outearned by men, and that men still populate the majority of top-level government and corporate positions.  When many women choose to stay home for a period of time (putting their career in the backseat), or when women remain in the workforce with the demands of a family occupying time previously spent on work--most men don't. We need to acknowledge that there's often a professional cost associated with being a mother.  It's not discrimination, it's the cost associated with putting family first sometimes.  It's a cost I'm okay with professionally To think that you can give 100% to both work and family when you only have 100% in total to give is foolhardy. It's also impossible math.

Sorry for my lack of clarity with using the term feminist, I guess my UO is more a rant about some women I know who consider themselves to be feminists and have responded in ways I indicated. I think whether a woman makes the decision to SAH or return to work, it is a very important one and I just don't like being criticised when I'm trying to make it. I'm battling with my decision for a number of reasons.
And of course it is all case by case with the "unfit" for working thing, I'm just ranting about my encounters.
And I by no means judge a woman who does return to work, I really don't care.

lancyjo

NatnDyl:

"Ah! So if someone asks their husband about their feelings on the possible exposure of the breastnbsp;which, I believe was actually the issue here not NIP, but doing it without a cover or in such a manner more likely to expose the breast, then obviously that means she cares more about submitting to her husband thannbsp;aboutnbsp;feeding her baby. insert sarcarsm here. Got it!
Also, way to change the argument by throwing in the part about a different week's controversy. Sneaky sneaky!"
Quote from Redheadscu
It sounds like a waste of time discussing things that might possibly happen, but that you intend to take precautions against. I NIP and use a cover when DS will let me. Because I embarass easily and have no great desire to show my goods to the world, I attempt to be discreet, but que sera, sera. If everyone agrees that they do not want to flash the general population, why would anyone need to discuss how their husband felt about it?
To me, its like having a discussion about not crashing the car. Every day, I do not want to be in a car accident, I take the necessary measures to avoid one at all costs. Sometimes you are in an accident anyways, your fault or not. Why would you discuss it before hand? "DH, how would you feel if I crashed the car?" "not great" "me either"
Also, some of the things Nateslady said last week really rubbed people including me the wrong way and so yes, I do look at her posts differently than I might if she hadn't said such inflammatory things.

ALL of this.

lancyjo

NatnDyl:

"Ah! So if someone asks their husband about their feelings on the possible exposure of the breastnbsp;which, I believe was actually the issue here not NIP, but doing it without a cover or in such a manner more likely to expose the breast, then obviously that means she cares more about submitting to her husband thannbsp;aboutnbsp;feeding her baby. insert sarcarsm here. Got it!
Also, way to change the argument by throwing in the part about a different week's controversy. Sneaky sneaky!"
Quote from Redheadscu
It sounds like a waste of time discussing things that might possibly happen, but that you intend to take precautions against. I NIP and use a cover when DS will let me. Because I embarass easily and have no great desire to show my goods to the world, I attempt to be discreet, but que sera, sera. If everyone agrees that they do not want to flash the general population, why would anyone need to discuss how their husband felt about it?
To me, its like having a discussion about not crashing the car. Every day, I do not want to be in a car accident, I take the necessary measures to avoid one at all costs. Sometimes you are in an accident anyways, your fault or not. Why would you discuss it before hand? "DH, how would you feel if I crashed the car?" "not great" "me either"
Also, some of the things Nateslady said last week really rubbed people including me the wrong way and so yes, I do look at her posts differently than I might if she hadn't said such inflammatory things.

ALL of this.

HattieLove

Jen0204:

redheadscu:

Uh-oh. Looks like I'm about to get voted off the island for defecting from the Sooner-You-Are-So-Wise Club.

Yes, because no one has ever disagreed with her before. 

FWIW, I think the same thing whenever I read NatesLady's posts. She offended many people on this board, and I'm sure quite a few people read her posts differently then they did before. People's opinions of each other on here are formed by what we write so it only makes sense that people will remember of someone says something that really offends them.

This. That's just the way it works. I'm going to remember someone who's post I strongly disagreed with.

Especially if the opinions they're expressing are so evident in their username.  

Mistifier

Ainslie325:

Mistifier:

Sorry for my lack of clarity with using the term feminist, I guess my UO is more a rant about some women I know who consider themselves to be feminists and have responded in ways I indicated. I think whether a woman makes the decision to SAH or return to work, it is a very important one and I just don't like being criticised when I'm trying to make it. I'm battling with my decision for a number of reasons.
And of course it is all case by case with the "unfit" for working thing, I'm just ranting about my encounters.
And I by no means judge a woman who does return to work, I really don't care.

OP, I think you missed my drift.  My point was that the people you know who consider themselves feminists because they work and you don't?  They're not feminists.  They're morons who don't know what feminism is and are actively undercutting it.

Oops, I gotcha! Sorry :

Shmogan09

Ainslie325:

Mistifier:

My UO: sometimes feminists irritate me. If I decide to be a SAHM that doesn't mean I don't care about women's rights, and it is not going to make me unfit for rejoining the workforce down the road. I know many women who were SAHM till their kids were in school and they have great careers.

Am I a feminist because I choose to work and find value in it, or am I a feminist only if I criticize you for not choosing to work?  Such criticism of a SAHM is not feminism.  It's not anti-feminist to leave or take a break from one's career in order to raise one's children.  It's not feminist to choose to work. If someone couched their criticism of your choice to stay home as feminism, I would contend that this person isn't a feminist, she's an idiot.

As for whether it will make you "unfit" for rejoining the world of work later on, "unfit" is a strong word.  Depending on how much later, though, you may find yourself trying to convince a potential employer of your value after a break of many years.  That employer may also see you as lacking in recent experience, professional relationships, perhaps left behind with regard to job-related technologies, and out-of-date on job specific regulations, etc.  

My OU (inspired by, but unrelated to, the post I quoted): Women often lament that we are still outearned by men, and that men still populate the majority of top-level government and corporate positions.  When many women choose to stay home for a period of time (putting their career in the backseat), or when women remain in the workforce with the demands of a family occupying time previously spent on work--most men don't. We need to acknowledge that there's often a professional cost associated with being a mother.  It's not discrimination, it's the cost associated with putting family first sometimes.  It's a cost I'm okay with professionally To think that you can give 100% to both work and family when you only have 100% in total to give is foolhardy. It's also impossible math.

 

This makes me think of my sister.  She is a lawyer with a 10mo old and I feel for her everyday.  She is the only female out of 8 attorneys at her firm.  They expect her to be as dedicated to work as they are even though they all have stay at home wives.  Her husband works full time as well and she is the primary parent so of course when the baby is sick she has to go get her from day care.  

I watch her trying to do it all everyday and it just kills me for her.  She is a wonderful mother and a great lawyer but sometimes I wonder when she even gets a moment for herself.  It seems pretty unfair to me that women are now expected to be equal in the work force but still the primary parent/ keeper of the household.  

jmccall79

redheadscu:

The tribe has spoken.

No they haven't, you're good!