Catholic Support Needed!!!

hjoy_06

My husband and I are set to have IVF next week. I've really been looking forward to this and wasn't questioning anything...until yesterday when I found out the Catholic church is VERY against this, they consider this to be like "abortion". I've been crying straight for 24 hours feeling like I'm a horrible person for wanting to start a family. Are there any Catholics that have gone through this that can give me any advise. We've already paid for everything and have so much time and emotions invested and I'm actually thinking about backing out because this has all made me feel like a horrible baby killer. My husband doesn't feel the same way so I don't think he fully understands why this is hurting me so badly. Anyone else go through this???

mm29

(((Huge hugs)))

Although I am not Catholic I could only imagine the pain and mixed emotions you are going through right now.  I have seen simular post to yours from other catholics and also women from other various religions.  Some couples have chosen to move forward with IVF against thier churches wishes.  However, it is ultimately up to you and your DH decision of what is best for you two. 

LaLe09

DH & I are Catholic. It was very disheartening to find out how strongly they are against IF treatments. We have had many discussions about this with our friends and family (who are almost all Catholic) and they are all completely supportive of us. (Well not DH's parents, but that's another story....) Other religions accept IVF/IUI and quite honestly, my husband and I are looking into joining other religions at this point as we do not feel accepted in the Catholic church. We are a Christian couple, want to live a Christian lifestyle, and find it unfair that because we were dealt this hand, that we are looked down upon for what we are choosing to do to have a family.

My advice to you would be to do what feels right to you and your husband. I'm sorry that you are going through this so close to your IVF cycle. I hope that you can make a decision that's best for you.

 ETA: I would refrain from using the term "baby killer" when referring to IVF. It's honestly kind of offensive and completely incorrect. 

Aegis2005

I'm not catholic, but am actually going through RCIA inquiry classes and seriously considering entering into the catholic church - the main "issue" I've had from moving forward, for me is comments that the Pope has made regarding ART. 

I have spent a lot of time in prayer and reflection on my choice to move forward with IVF and am completely comfortable with it.  A good portion of my embryos don't make it past the first few days, but they wouldn't have made it if they were inside of me.  For me, I don't consider that "taking a life" but that may be different for you.  We're giving all viable embryos a shot (albeit we froze some, because we didn't want to put me at risk with high order multiples), and both my husband and I are comfortable with this.

I have spoken with leaders in the Catholic church we attend, because in my research I know that all priest do not agree with the comments the pope has made.  What they've said to me is that the pope is a man, his comments on ART are not doctrine but opinions.   (I guess the last time a pope made a comment that was considered doctrine was 1953 regarding the assumption of Mary).  I was told there is something referred to - oh I'm forgetting the phrase they used - but it had the word consciousness and morality in it - that I should take into consideration the words of the pope and vatican, but spend time in prayer and reflection.  That if in those times my conscious says it's right, than I should do that. 

Honestly, I think you need to spend some time in thought and reflection to determien whether you feel you're taking a life if embryos don't make it. 

Good luck in your decision, I'm sure it's hard.

kelnyc

*sig warning*

This is one of the main reasons why I have left the Catholic faith. To the church, my child is an aberration, which makes me angry. I think the issue with the "baby killing" thing is that people assume that unused embryos are just thrown away, which is not usually true. Ours are frozen for future use, and those we don't use will be donated to adopting couples. But, even with this line of action, the church doesn't approve of artifical conception, so no matter what, we're looked down upon. Honestly, the day my faith turned its back on me, I walked away. I am no longer religious at all, but the people I know who are and have struggled with this have comfort in knowing that God is involved in making the IVF work, so hopefully the church will eventually catch on.

mattea1986

I was raised Catholic and some of my family is as well, and they are against my plans to do IUI... My thinking is this: God gave us enough brains to figure out how to make babies, and along with that, develop scientific technology to allow us to save lives, live longer, help our environment, etc. If God didn't want us to help ourselves, He wouldn't have given us the brain capacity to figure things out for ourselves. But He did. He gave us the tools and knowledge to create these procedures, which were created to help people. God wants us to help others. That's why he gave us the tools to do so. And then I think, why would it be against God's wishes for me to have a family and love a child? It's not. The Pope isn't experiencing IF and never will, and neither have any of the other men who rule the Catholic church, so none of them will ever understand the struggles and moral dilemmas faced by us. They have no right to tell us that these procedures, which are the only way for some of us to have families,are immoral. I'm also sure that the God that I worship would want you to worship with a denomination that accepts your lifestyle choices, whether it be Catholic, United, Pentecostal, whatever. If your church isn't accepting you and is giving you a hard time about it, leave. They have no right to judge you. Good luck and God Bless.

Whales124

mattea1986:

My thinking is this: God gave us enough brains to figure out how to make babies, and along with that, develop scientific technology to allow us to save lives, live longer, help our environment, etc. If God didn't want us to help ourselves, He wouldn't have given us the brain capacity to figure things out for ourselves. But He did. He gave us the tools and knowledge to create these procedures, which were created to help people. God wants us to help others. That's why he gave us the tools to do so. And then I think, why would it be against God's wishes for me to have a family and love a child? It's not.

This! I was raised Catholic and my DH and I are both practicing Catholics.  When we did our first IVF and FET I didn't rely very much on my faith, in fact I was frustrated that I as well as many others had to "carry this cross".  Leading up to our 2nd IVF I started going to church more and praying the rosary.  A rosary was given to me by someone to help calm my anxiety and reassure me that God was close by.  I have white-knuckle gripped this rosary through every step of this cycle including my first u/s today.  It brings me comfort.

IVF and religion are both very personal decisions so I wish you and your DH the best of luck in making them!

lynn0926

DH and I were both born and raised in strong Catholic homes, Catholic schools and all. We recently made the decision to stop being Catholic for this very reason, plus disagreeing with a lot if their man made rules. We were just visiting friends in FL who lack for a better word are "bible thumpers". We went to their Christian Church, after not being to church in about 2 years, and were so enlightened that we sought out a similar church in our area. We got to talking about ART and our upcoming DE cycle. Our friend talked to a guy at their church for us who is a Bible scholar. He stated that no where in the bible is there anything against ART (ART was also developed well after the bible), however, he went on to say that God determines each and every life that is born. Be it from DE, IVF, etc, he is the one who controls the success or failure of these cycles. He also went on to say that we need to find out what it is that God wants for us with these successes or failures. He did also say that the bible states that life begins at conception, so it would be against the bible to destroy embryos. I have been wanting to donate any extra embryos we have to another couple prior to hearing this. This just confims my feelings.

You have to keep in mind the Catholic religion makes their own rules. It might be right for you or the next person, but keep in mind what the Bible actually teaches. You are not a bad person for going through IVF. God has control over the life that may be born from it. Also, I believe that God put the people on this earth who are the brains behind all of this for a reason.

PennyLane26

I am an active Catholic and teach in a Catholic school. That being said, I love my faith, not necessarily my Church. What I mean by that is that I don't agree with a good number of things that the Papacy "commands." I regularly use birth control (the church even Frowns on condoms!), I support gay rights and (obviously) I am going through IVF. 

 I love the ancient teachings of the Catholic church and I also love my parish community. IMO, the pope is just a man, elected by men. In other words, I wouldn't move out of the U.S. if I didn't like the president. I sincerely hope that our Church makes some major changes but I doubt that is going to happen. I have seriously considered changing religions, but I haven't found one that I can relate to in the same way that I relate to Catholicism. 

GL and know that you can find support here! There are also Catholic support groups for IVF (although I'm sure they aren't backed by the Church). 

Jezebell26

Wow some of the responses are so moving! I completely agree with all the other ladies. I was raised catholic, made all my sacraments, married in a catholic church, but really only go to church on holidays. I would say I am non practicing. MH was totally against the catholic church when we first met. But now that he has been around me and my family long enough he understands why I want the kids to be baptized and have god parents and make communion and confirmation. The traditions mean a lot to me, but I dont necessarily agree with all the teachings. We also came to see that a lot of people think and feel the same way we do that we don't always go to church to pray to God. I talk to him all the time. I go to church when I want to have that connection or when I need it. I have gotten DH to go to church with me a few times and he took me to a very special church that has the national shrine of St. Gerard.

I think your level of faith is up to you and what you are comfortable with. I have not asked my church if they will baptize IVF babies and I dont necessarily plan on telling them either. I think at this point in our lives we do what we have to in order to get by. Wishing you the best on this journey! Hugs!

EMNTOM

My husband and his family are Catholic. They all have been very supportive of our IF and IVF. Although they are aware of the Catholic Church's opinion on it... I have to believe that God would not give us the resources and the doctors the knowledge to help us conceive if he didn't want us to use them. I honestly believe that the church is against it because they don't understand it.

Laurakat81

Aegis2005:

I have spent a lot of time in prayer and reflection on my choice to move forward with IVF and am completely comfortable with it.  A good portion of my embryos don't make it past the first few days, but they wouldn't have made it if they were inside of me.  For me, I don't consider that "taking a life" but that may be different for you.  We're giving all viable embryos a shot (albeit we froze some, because we didn't want to put me at risk with high order multiples), and both my husband and I are comfortable with this.

  What they've said to me is that the pope is a man, his comments on ART are not doctrine but opinions.   (I guess the last time a pope made a comment that was considered doctrine was 1953 regarding the assumption of Mary).  I was told there is something referred to - oh I'm forgetting the phrase they used - but it had the word consciousness and morality in it - that I should take into consideration the words of the pope and vatican, but spend time in prayer and reflection.  That if in those times my conscious says it's right, than I should do that. 

Honestly, I think you need to spend some time in thought and reflection to determien whether you feel you're taking a life if embryos don't make it. 

Good luck in your decision, I'm sure it's hard.

All of this! I'm Catholic and while we aren't to the point of needing IVF I've worried about this as well. Everything that Aegis has said is dead on to me! These embryos wouldn't even exist if it weren't for IVF, so how is that taking a life? In my opinion, its giving God the chance to work His miracles. The babies born from IVF are nothing short of miracles, and any embryos that didn't make it, well at least you gave them a chance and I think that is where the Pope is just uneducated in the whole process. It's not preventing life, its creating life, no matter how short!

(((Hugs))) I wish you the best of luck in this decision.  

Pnut30

I hope you don't mind me posting.....

 

   This was also a problem that we initially faced.  DH and I are Catholic, DH born and raised and I went through RCIA before our wedding.  I think this is one of those things where you need to ask yourself how God feels about it and it might be a different answer than the Pope's stance.  The Church used to be against couples living together prior to marriage but now you just have to take a few extra questions on their test.  My mother was also told that she could not deliver my brother at the Catholic hospital in the 1970's because she merely used fertility drugs to conceive him.  Now they are ok with ferility drugs, just not ART.  They change their stance on things all the time so it is difficult to always live accordingly.  I try to just "take the good" out of mass which is sometimes easier said than done.  I struggle with this issue more than my DH even though he is much more active in the Church than I am.  It took many many conversations but in the end we were comfortable with our decision to move forward with IVF.

   I also want to point out though that this is really part of the bigger picture as to why IVF is so tough.  You have to be prepared to ask yourself a lot of questions and think about things you never would have thought you had to.  I don't think we would have gone down this road if it wasn't our only chance for a biological child.  It is an emotional rollercoaster and you can try to decide things ahead of time that will make you feel better but you don't know what the outcome will be.  We thought we were doing everything right and planned on using all of our frozen embryos.  We had severe sperm issues so we never would have thought in a million years that we would wind up with SEVEN viable blastocysts from our first cycle.  They retrieved 14 eggs from me and 12 were mature.  Ten of them fertilized with ICSI.  We transferred one and got pregnant and now have 6 frozen (2 pairs and 2 singles).  This was way far beyond ours and our Dr.'s expectations for us.  Unless you limit the number of eggs to be fertilized (which they should ask you if you'd like to to do) you won't know if you will wind up with more than you plan on using.  I don't know if we could potentially have 7 babies.  I don't know if I could give them the attention that they each would need and deserve.  It is heartbreaking to me that I know have to think of what we will do with all of them and it might not be the way we initally planned it.  I don't think you should put the cart before the horse and worry about being in a similar situation I just wanted to point out that these questions and decisions really make IVF tough.

Good luck with your decision.   

sorry that this got long!

PennyLane26

Pnut30:

I hope you don't mind me posting.....

 

   This was also a problem that we initially faced.  DH and I are Catholic, DH born and raised and I went through RCIA before our wedding.  I think this is one of those things where you need to ask yourself how God feels about it and it might be a different answer than the Pope's stance.  The Church used to be against couples living together prior to marriage but now you just have to take a few extra questions on their test.  My mother was also told that she could not deliver my brother at the Catholic hospital in the 1970's because she merely used fertility drugs to conceive him.  Now they are ok with ferility drugs, just not ART.  They change their stance on things all the time so it is difficult to always live accordingly.  I try to just "take the good" out of mass which is sometimes easier said than done.  I struggle with this issue more than my DH even though he is much more active in the Church than I am.  It took many many conversations but in the end we were comfortable with our decision to move forward with IVF.

   I also want to point out though that this is really part of the bigger picture as to why IVF is so tough.  You have to be prepared to ask yourself a lot of questions and think about things you never would have thought you had to.  I don't think we would have gone down this road if it wasn't our only chance for a biological child.  It is an emotional rollercoaster and you can try to decide things ahead of time that will make you feel better but you don't know what the outcome will be.  We thought we were doing everything right and planned on using all of our frozen embryos.  We had severe sperm issues so we never would have thought in a million years that we would wind up with SEVEN viable blastocysts from our first cycle.  They retrieved 14 eggs from me and 12 were mature.  Ten of them fertilized with ICSI.  We transferred one and got pregnant and now have 6 frozen (2 pairs and 2 singles).  This was way far beyond ours and our Dr.'s expectations for us.  Unless you limit the number of eggs to be fertilized (which they should ask you if you'd like to to do) you won't know if you will wind up with more than you plan on using.  I don't know if we could potentially have 7 babies.  I don't know if I could give them the attention that they each would need and deserve.  It is heartbreaking to me that I know have to think of what we will do with all of them and it might not be the way we initally planned it.  I don't think you should put the cart before the horse and worry about being in a similar situation I just wanted to point out that these questions and decisions really make IVF tough.

Good luck with your decision.   

sorry that this got long!

Very well said. I havent had the same issue, but I have that Catholic guilt just thinking that any embryos are destroyed. It's a horrible feeling. 

herray

mattea1986:

I was raised Catholic and some of my family is as well, and they are against my plans to do IUI... My thinking is this: God gave us enough brains to figure out how to make babies, and along with that, develop scientific technology to allow us to save lives, live longer, help our environment, etc. If God didn't want us to help ourselves, He wouldn't have given us the brain capacity to figure things out for ourselves. But He did. He gave us the tools and knowledge to create these procedures, which were created to help people. God wants us to help others. That's why he gave us the tools to do so. And then I think, why would it be against God's wishes for me to have a family and love a child? It's not. The Pope isn't experiencing IF and never will, and neither have any of the other men who rule the Catholic church, so none of them will ever understand the struggles and moral dilemmas faced by us. They have no right to tell us that these procedures, which are the only way for some of us to have families,are immoral. I'm also sure that the God that I worship would want you to worship with a denomination that accepts your lifestyle choices, whether it be Catholic, United, Pentecostal, whatever. If your church isn't accepting you and is giving you a hard time about it, leave. They have no right to judge you. Good luck and God Bless.

This. I cannot agree with this entire statement more.

snoangel79

ticker warning**

 

I'm Catholic but not practicing. I have two kids from IVF (DE which is even worse in their eyes). My children are God's children regardless of how they got here. They are very much loved... I hate that the church stands on these issues but it's ok to overlook wacko priests molesting little boys. God loves me, I have done nothing wrong in going about getting my family in this way. I was struck with cancer at 23 so I'm assuming I don't deserve to have a family unless I adopted in some of the church's eyes, well in my opinion I do. I'm a great mom and this is what I was meant to be and I grew and birthed my babies. I think religion twists things too much. I was actually married in a Lutheran church to my husband (who's Lutheran) and they do not have an issue with IVF (DE yes but you know what, oh well)...  God is always in my heart and he is always with me and my children regardless of what the Catholic or any other religion says... My thoughts on the pope is he is a man and not to be worshipped, so I guess even though I was raised Catholic I disagree with a lot of what they have to say but that doesn't make me a bad person. I also "save people's lives" with my job (cord blood collection for cancer patients, donation only) so I'm assuming I'm bad for that too... God is my only judge not man...

Pnut30

car seat:

I realize that was long.  Sorry!  But this has been a big thing for us to take on in the past years, and I know it helped me to hear how other people were dealing with it.  A lot of people stay with the Church and find more liberal priests and congregations.  Others omit the nature of conception when planning baptism.  Others, like us, choose to go elsewhere.  Whatever you decide isn't wrong, but I'm sorry that you need to think about this and navigate your feelings on it right before going through IVF.  You don't need this stress right now, and I wish you peace while you go through your options.

I guess my final thought is that I don't believe in an interventionist God.  I don't believe He's up there deciding who deserves to have children and who should be denied them.  I believe that it's our job to go through life with the circumstances we're given and the teachings of the church to guide us into doing what's right.  He gave us free will and knowledge to make our lives and the lives of people around us better.  He isn't punishing us with failing reproductive parts, but instead should be viewed as a source of strength to help us through our challenges. 

(((hugs)))

I'm sorry. 

 

I agree with you.... During our journey both one of my friends and my MIL tried telling me that this was "in God's plan" and that "everything happens for a reason".... I tried telling them both that I disagree wholeheartedly when in comes to infertility..In order to think that way I would have to tell myself that God chooses drug addicts who already have 8 kids to have another child over us having one and I don't think God would do that. 

I wanted to ask you, and its ok if you don't want to say or would rather PM me but you mentioned that you went "elsewhere".  If you don't mind could you say where that is? I am in a bit of a conundrum now because I have a really hard time continuing to go to our Catholic Church and give our money when I know how they would feel about what we did. I want to talk to our Pastor so that way either I could feel better about staying or my DH can realize we need to leave....My DH is very scared to talk to him about this and thinks we should just keep it to ourselves. It is partly his family who are very fake and encourage him even to lie to stay with the Church (but that is another story)...Anyways I know he wants to raise our baby with the same traditions he had growing up  and I don't want to take that away from him...so we were considering trying an Episcopal mass and seeing how that works.  I was just curious as to whether or not this is where you went. 

Thanks!