Austin Babies

Okay, circ question #2

So here's the scoop on the conflict with DH:  I don't want to circumcise, he does.  I feel like it's an unnecessary cosmetic procedure, since our religion doesn't "require" it.  My BF prior to DH was not circ'd, and it was no big deal at all.  So it's not something I'm unfamiliar with.  I've done my research and I can't find a compelling (to me) reason to do it.  This is not to say anything about those who choose to do it AT ALL.  It's just not what I would pick.

DH feels strongly that we should.  Mainly for the reason that everyone he know is circ'd.  I think this is a stupid reason.  And he won't do any research on the issue.  I am more than willing to discuss it and am open hearing any issues he has, but to me the herd mentality is not a good enough reason to do it.  I also think he's bothered by the fact that the only person he's even heard of that wasn't is my ex.  I feel like if we have a girl and I wanted to have a painful cosmetic procedure done when she is a few days old for no reason other than "everyone else is doing it", he would freak. 

We're not really fighting about it, we're just kind of ignoring it.  But it's something I want resolved before we have this baby, and it's staring to stress me out a little.  And how on earth do you find middle ground here?  There's no compromise that I can see.  Either I "win", or he does.  We're doing things pretty much the way I want to so far (birthing center vs. hospital, cloth diapering, etc.) so I feel like I should honor some of his wishes, but at my child's expense?  I just can't decide what to do.  Help!

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"There is a fine line between a princess and a witch...thinking you're one does NOT give you the right to act like the other." my grandmother
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Re: Okay, circ question #2

  • I know this can be a hot topic for so many people but I really don't see the issue.  Yes, its basically an unnecessary cosmetic surgery but its a minor one and the risks are minimal. 

    I have a hard time buying into the "harming the child" reasoning because when my son was circ'd, he was gone from the room about 15-20 minutes and came back sound asleep.  He was never in pain or suffering from it.  It healed quickly and easily.  And given how disgusting 10 year old boys are, I'm very glad that its one less thing I have to worry about him cleaning properly.

    My opinion is slanted since I went with the circ but I do think I would let your DH have his way on this one.  I think the simple fact that your DH has been circ'd, is happy with it and now wants his son done as well, is a strong argument in favor.  I would tell my H that since he felt strongly about it, you will leave it to him to research who should perform the procedure and make the appt.  Chances are, he won't get around to it and you'll end up having your way anyway :)

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  • I'm pretty sure that's it's about 50-50 in this area so your child would certainly not be the only kid who is uncircumcised.  I had no intention of circumcising our child and luckily DH agreed with me 100%.

    I don't want to piss off half of the board, (truly, I don't!) so I'll just say that Mothering.com would be a really good resource for info on changing your DH's mind.

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  • imagekiarox2002:

    I don't want to piss off half of the board, (truly, I don't!) so I'll just say that Mothering.com would be a really good resource for info on changing your DH's mind.

    Yeah, no.  MDC tends to be very hotheaded about this issue and present scare tactics. I don't think that's the best way to go. There are other, less one-sided views on circumcision available.

    That being said, I think this is largely just a personal choice. I was ready to do a brit shalom (the alternative to a brit milah, or ritual circumcision.) My conundrum was one of great spiritual significance. It had a lot to do with Jewish identity and a covenant. I made the decision to go with the circumcision after I read some thoughts on the subject from a spiritual POV.  That's not where you are coming from, though, I understand.

    If we were not Jewish, DH and I were not going to circumcise our son. I did not see any compelling medical reason to do so and DH did not see the merit in a looking-like-dad argument (DH is circ'd.)  I also wondered about the social implications of being uncut and the whole locker room issue. DH said this: "You know, high school boys just don't really spend time looking at each other's wangs in the locker room."  Smile

  • Your husband is right, most of (if not all the guys) he knows probably are circ'ed.

    But your son won't be in that group. It's close to 50 50 in the Austin area now.  It's similar out here and less and less people across the US are doing it. There's really no need unless it's part of your religion.

    I don't want to tick people off either, but there are tons of resources online and why take away part of your kid's anatomy w/out his consent.  You can always let him do it later if he wants, but he can't regrow it.


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  • I think a compromise would be for you both to discuss it rather than ignoring it and have one or the other actually be convinced to agree with the other. The only way to "lose" here is to be absolutely against whatever is decided on, and this is a pretty big decision to have one parent be really against the decision.

    I disagree that it is only a cosmetic procedure. Research shows that there are slight medical advantages and disadvantages for having it done. You can also ask your pedi to weigh in on the issue (if you have a pedi yet) or at the very least to recommend some places you can go for more unbiased information. 

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  • I had added a long ETA on my post in the other thread but not sure if you read it, so I'll paste it here:

    Also, as far as the conflict with your DH:  I'm not sure your stance or your reasons, but like Ali said, this was an issue that I ultimately left up to DH.  He's the one with a penis, so I firgured if it was important to him I'd go with it.  I honestly could have gone either way.I have a friend who had initially decided not to circ her 1st son.  He had a terrible time with UTI's in the early months for whatever reason, that she ended up having him circ'd when he was about 5-6mo old.  This did resolve his UTI issues, but I remember it was awful for her to see him in such pain from it, and to be honest, having my DS2 circ'd yesterday at 2wks old suckedass because I could tell he was in pain all afternoon.  With DS1, it was done in hospital so it almost just seemed like something that "came with" the baby, kwim?  But since I've had 2 weeks to bond with and get to know this little guy, I could definitely see his pain and see that it's different from his normal temperament. (he's all better and back to normal today though, so it is short-lived!).  And another friend didnt have her 1st son circ'd until 3mo (not sure why) but she just mentioned yesterday that he has always been freakishly protective of his penis and hated to let her even touch/wash it when bathing him or whatever (he's 17 now).  She has 2 other sons who were circ'd in hospital and have never acted that way.

    I guess my point is, based on my limited knowledge, I would recommend if you decide to do it, do it as early as possible! 

    I also had made most of the decisions regarding birth plan, diapering, feeding, sleeping, etc and felt comfortable with him making this decision.  His main reason for it was for son(s) to look the same as Dad.  I understand this is not important to many/most people  but I also think that because my friend had gone through having her son circ'd so late due to medical reasons, I was really ok with whatever he decided.  Again, I have no idea why my friend's son kept having UTI issues - I'm sure she was obsessive about cleaning the area, as she's pretty obsessive about most things with her kids.  It's just one of those things, I guess.  So when her 2nd son came around, she had him circ'd in the hospital.  If you'd like, I can ask her for more specific info on what exactly the issue was with her DS1.

    And also want to clarify - yes it's generally not a medically necessary procedure.  And yes I was a post-partum hormonal mess yesterday seeing my 2-wk old in pain from it, but like I said - it was short lived and today you'd have no idea that it was hurting him yesterday.  He's totally fine.  It may not be 'necessary', medically speaking, but it's harmless.  

    And, I'm SURE this will piss someone or many off, and will probably start a whole new debate, but I kind of see it like piercing baby girls' ears.  There's no reason for it, IMO, except cosmetic.  Some parents like the way it looks, so they have their baby's ears pierced.  It's not comfortable for the baby, but it's a short-lived discomfort and it's generally harmless.  That's all I meant by that.

  • What are his reasons for doing it? Common ones are "so we look the same". My response to that is doe he remember seeing his dads penis growing up? My husband laughed at that and said "no!" and if the child does noticeits "different " between him and dad at some point it will probably be more of him noticing size differences not the details. Also the other arguement that i hear is "I dont want him laughed at in the locker room" to which my response is "ok we WONT circ then". In the last few years only 30% of boys in the US were circumsized compared to 80% in the 70s and 80s.

    Hopefully those comebacks will help. Im with you! there is no compromise especially over something that only causes harm.  Unless it is for religous reasons, I havent heard of 1 good reason to do it. I wish that doctors informed parents more about the lack of reasons to do this procedure and the potential complications. 

    Drmomma.org is a great rescource. They have some really sad videos. :( but great info and they will mail you an info packet too.

    Also, check with your insurance because many companies now consider it elective and will not cover the cost. 

     

    Good luck! 

    Mama to Lily 2 1/2 and Dawson 1
  • Parenting is full of tough decisions and unfortunately, sometimes you both feel really strongly on each side of the issue. This came up for us when I was pregnant and I ABSOLUTELY wanted my mom and sister in the delivery room and DH ABSOLUTELY didn't......and a decision had to be made!

    I don't think whether we circ'd my DS is relevant to whether you should if you have a son, but I would expect that DH would clearly hear and understand your reasons for not wanting to do so. In any disagreement, I think the other party needs to be willing to fully put themselves in the other person's point of view, as much as they can. At least if y'all do circ, then you can feel like you've done it while still being heard/understood and the same for your DH.

    I do think you'll look back on it and and realize it wasn't such a big deal though. What I mean by that is, I don't think you're going to be heartbroken every time you change your sons diaper and see a circumcised penis (if that's what you end up doing). Y'all will make a decision and move on. Every time I've gotten worked up over some "major" parenting decision, once it's in the past, I realize that I made more of it than it was. 

    Good luck! Major disagreements aren't fun!

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  • Here's some quick google info. It's difficult to find objective research on this subject since it can be so inflammatory.

     

    "At that time, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) said that circumcising newborn boys did have potential medical advantages, primarily related to preventing urinary tract infections (UTIs). But by 1999, the AAP had formed a task force on circumcision that decided the procedure shouldn't be routinely recommended. The task force based this policy on 40 years of studies of both circumcised and uncircumcised boys, and it concluded the following:

    • Problems with the penis, such as irritation, can occur with or without circumcision.
    • With proper care, there is no difference in hygiene.
    • There may or may not be differences in sexual sensation in adult men.
    • There is an increased risk for a UTI in uncircumcised males, especially babies under 1 year. However, the risk for a UTI is still less than 1 percent.
    • Newborn circumcision provides some protection from penile cancer, which only occurs in the foreskin. However, the risk of this cancer is very low in developed countries such as the United States.

    "We also looked at whether being circumcised prevents HIV in a man's partner," says Jack Swanson, MD, a pediatrician in Ames, Iowa, and a task force member. "There may be a slight benefit to being circumcised, but the statistics were inconclusive. There weren't any medical reasons that were convincing enough for us to say that all boy babies should be circumcised," he says.

    However, in 2002, a study found male circumcision was linked to a reduced risk of penile human papillomavirus infection (HPV). The study also showed a lower risk of cervical cancer in the current female partners of circumcised men with a history of multiple sexual partners. (HPV is associated with an increased risk of cervical cancer.) But no medical evidence has been weighty enough to reverse the AAP's policy on circumcision. In fact, this past May it reaffirmed its stand that circumcision shouldn't be recommended unless the procedure is essential to the newborn's health."

     

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  • I did not have an opinion either way, so I left it up to DH. 

     

    imagefjaril:

    Your husband is right, most of (if not all the guys) he knows probably are circ'ed.

    But your son won't be in that group. It's close to 50 50 in the Austin area now.  It's similar out here and less and less people across the US are doing it. There's really no need unless it's part of your religion.

    I don't want to tick people off either, but there are tons of resources online and why take away part of your kid's anatomy w/out his consent.  You can always let him do it later if he wants, but he can't regrow it.


     

    really? so why did you go there then? 

  • imagefjaril:
    ...why take away part of your kid's anatomy w/out his consent.  You can always let him do it later if he wants, but he can't regrow it.

    Hmm. I just don't buy the without-consent argument. We do a lot of things to our children without their consent: vaccinate, make them eat their vegetables, put helmets on their heads when they ride their bike, make them sit in car seats, tell them "No, you may not have a scorpion farm", etc.

    Having a circumcision when you're an older child or an adult is far more difficult, risky, and painful.

     

  • imageMrsAJL:
    imagekiarox2002:

    I don't want to piss off half of the board, (truly, I don't!) so I'll just say that Mothering.com would be a really good resource for info on changing your DH's mind.

    Yeah, no.  MDC tends to be very hotheaded about this issue and present scare tactics. I don't think that's the best way to go. There are other, less one-sided views on circumcision available. 

    I totally agree that MDC is vehemently anti-circ.  They are also completely one-sided.  She's not asking for unbiased resources though, she's trying to convince her husband not to do it.   

    In my research, I found no compelling reason to have a circumcision done unless it is for religious reasons.  The argument I hear the most is that the father wants the son to look like him.  The way I see it, the biggest difference a kid is going to see is the hair, but I don't see many dads lining up for a bikini wax.

    I think there can be an increased risk of infection if you don't circ, but I'm pretty sure that's mainly an issue if you aren't caring for/ cleaning it properly.  Basically, you're just supposed to leave it alone.  I feel like there were some other pros to having it done, maybe a tiny reduction in the risk for penile cancer?

    One of the cons that you can share with him that might sway him are that it reduces sensation in the penis.  There are more that I can't remember off the top of my head, but I didn't have to convince DH.  When I brought it up (as in, we're not doing this, cool?) he was horrified at the thought of having it done. 

    ETA: Rssnlvr found actual pros and cons.  :)  Go with hers, I was listing things off the top of my head. 

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  • imagekiarox2002:
    imageMrsAJL:
    imagekiarox2002:

    I don't want to piss off half of the board, (truly, I don't!) so I'll just say that Mothering.com would be a really good resource for info on changing your DH's mind.

    Yeah, no.  MDC tends to be very hotheaded about this issue and present scare tactics. I don't think that's the best way to go. There are other, less one-sided views on circumcision available. 

    I totally agree that MDC is vehemently anti-circ.  They are also completely one-sided.  She's not asking for unbiased resources though, she's trying to convince her husband not to do it.   

    You're right. MDC did a number on me convincing me more not to do it. That message board scared the jeebus out of me. :)

  • imageA&Jmom:

    I did not have an opinion either way, so I left it up to DH. 

     

    imagefjaril:

    Your husband is right, most of (if not all the guys) he knows probably are circ'ed.

    But your son won't be in that group. It's close to 50 50 in the Austin area now.  It's similar out here and less and less people across the US are doing it. There's really no need unless it's part of your religion.

    I don't want to tick people off either, but there are tons of resources online and why take away part of your kid's anatomy w/out his consent.  You can always let him do it later if he wants, but he can't regrow it.


     

    really? so why did you go there then? 

    *shrug* It's not offensive to me whatever side I'm on.

    And I'll just stay out of it now since I'm obviously offensive.
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  • imagekiarox2002:
    imageMrsAJL:
    imagekiarox2002:

    I don't want to piss off half of the board, (truly, I don't!) so I'll just say that Mothering.com would be a really good resource for info on changing your DH's mind.

    Yeah, no.  MDC tends to be very hotheaded about this issue and present scare tactics. I don't think that's the best way to go. There are other, less one-sided views on circumcision available. 

    I totally agree that MDC is vehemently anti-circ.  They are also completely one-sided.  She's not asking for unbiased resources though, she's trying to convince her husband not to do it.   

    In my research, I found no compelling reason to have a circumcision done unless it is for religious reasons.  The argument I hear the most is that the father wants the son to look like him.  The way I see it, the biggest difference a kid is going to see is the hair, but I don't see many dads lining up for a bikini wax.

    I think there can be an increased risk of infection if you don't circ, but I'm pretty sure that's mainly an issue if you aren't caring for/ cleaning it properly.  Basically, you're just supposed to leave it alone.  I feel like there were some other pros to having it done, maybe a tiny reduction in the risk for penile cancer?

    One of the cons that you can share with him that might sway him are that it reduces sensation in the penis.  There are more that I can't remember off the top of my head, but I didn't have to convince DH.  When I brought it up (as in, we're not doing this, cool?) he was horrified at the thought of having it done. 

    ETA: Rssnlvr found actual pros and cons.  :)  Go with hers, I was listing things off the top of my head. 

    That's my point.  Little boys are not going to care for it properly.  Its hard enough to get these kids to wipe their butts after going to the bathroom or wash all the soap out of their hair. 

    As far as consent goes...I don't know any man walking around mourning the loss of his foreskin. 

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  • imageMrsAJL:
    imagekiarox2002:
    imageMrsAJL:
    imagekiarox2002:

    I don't want to piss off half of the board, (truly, I don't!) so I'll just say that Mothering.com would be a really good resource for info on changing your DH's mind.

    Yeah, no.  MDC tends to be very hotheaded about this issue and present scare tactics. I don't think that's the best way to go. There are other, less one-sided views on circumcision available. 

    I totally agree that MDC is vehemently anti-circ.  They are also completely one-sided.  She's not asking for unbiased resources though, she's trying to convince her husband not to do it.   

    You're right. MDC did a number on me convincing me more not to do it. That message board scared the jeebus out of me. :)

    They are hardcore.  I'm pretty sure that the last time I was there they had info for adult men who were trying to regrow their foreskins.  Now that sounds unpleasant. 

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  • imagefjaril:

    imageA&Jmom:

    I did not have an opinion either way, so I left it up to DH.  

    imagefjaril:

    I don't want to tick people off either, but there are tons of resources online and why take away part of your kid's anatomy w/out his consent.  You can always let him do it later if he wants, but he can't regrow it.

    really? so why did you go there then? 

    *shrug* It's not offensive to me whatever side I'm on.

    And I'll just stay out of it now since I'm obviously offensive.

    I actually don't understand why this is offensive.  (I'm not being sarcastic.)  It seems like a statement of fact to me.  Is it the word anatomy or that she's stating that it is without his consent that is offensive?  

    I never know what to say in real life in these situations.  One of my SILs is having her twins circumcised (which shocked me) but *obviously* I'm not going to say anything negative to her about it.  I kind of didn't know how to respond.  It was brought up in the context of newborn care.  I think she was just as surprised when I told her that I didn't know anything about post-circumcision care since we had not planned to circumcise Kate had she been a boy.

    Also shocking, DH is uncircumcised but his brother is.  They are 3 years apart and used to share a room.  Neither of them knew about the other.  Maybe they are just supremely unobservant, but it kind of makes the locker room argument a moot point.  :)

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  • Our pedi said her clientele was about 50/50, so the locker room issue will be a non-issue for our children.  There is not any extra cleaning really.  I think Mcgee posted a fun little rhyme that included the line "If intact, don't retract" and we've stuck to that with no issues.  The foreskin is also supposed to be full of sensory nerves and when we were researching the subject, DH started to wonder what he was missing out on.  Thinking of your sweet baby having great sex one day is weird and dirty sort of, but I get the point DH was trying to make and we were even on the same side of the issue.  Of course, this is not to say other boys won't enjoy sex...rainbows and all of that.
  • I also responded on the other post, but to add to my response, my OB actually was the one that helped me feel better about deciding not to get either of my boys circumsized. My oldest I didn't have done solely because his dad insisted it didn't get done. Once he was out of the picture, I started feeling guilty about not having it done. I worried that he would be made fun of or the girls would call him dirty. He is 6 now and when he was 4, I went to his pediatrician and talked to her about getting it done. She said she wouldn't reccomend it and that insurance companies after birth, consider it not medically necessary and cosmetic. So I talked to a bunch of my guy friends and they said guys don't look at other guys penises. He couldn't say for sure if he knew anyone without it done because he never paid attention. Then when I talked to my OB this year about getting my newborn done, she told me the stats. It's almost 50/50 and in the next few years it is guessed to be more don't than do. Even  after feeling guilty about not doing it for my oldest, I no longer had any desire to have my youngest done. I ended up going against daddy's decision and did not get him done. He hasn't made a huge fuss about it. He sees my reasoning behind it and admits that the only reason is because he is circumsized. It was a tough one for me, but I my oldest isn't and I haven't had any health problems with him. But believe it or not, there are ALOT of drs out there that will tell you it's not medically necessary. 

  • my dh and i had the same conflict, except it was the other way around, i was leaning more towards circumcising and he didn't want to do it (DH is). my reasons for wanting to do it was mainly, because that's what i know and that's what everyone was doing. not a good reason, really.

    we sat down and did the research together, had tons of conversations about it, and asked every medical professional their opinion (which we got a lot of "it's a personal choice"). we even had a long conversation with my L&D nurse about it. We were literally torn until the day we left the hospital. we ended up not doing. now i'm 100% on board with the decision. what also sealed the deal was talking to my pedi about it and he telling me he decided not to circumcise his son who was born about 3 weeks after my DS. he said there just weren't enough medical reasons to do it. if i trust him about the rest of my kids health, i trust him on this one too.

    so in the end i did take DH's side, but we both did the research together. funny thing is if DD had been a boy (we were team green with her) i'm sure she wuold have been circumsicsed, because we didn't even think about it or talk about it then.

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  • imagekiarox2002:
    imagefjaril:

    imageA&Jmom:

    I did not have an opinion either way, so I left it up to DH.  

    imagefjaril:

    I don't want to tick people off either, but there are tons of resources online and why take away part of your kid's anatomy w/out his consent.  You can always let him do it later if he wants, but he can't regrow it.

    really? so why did you go there then? 

    *shrug* It's not offensive to me whatever side I'm on.

    And I'll just stay out of it now since I'm obviously offensive.

    I actually don't understand why this is offensive.  (I'm not being sarcastic.)  It seems like a statement of fact to me.  Is it the word anatomy or that she's stating that it is without his consent that is offensive?  

    I never know what to say in real life in these situations.  One of my SILs is having her twins circumcised (which shocked me) but *obviously* I'm not going to say anything negative to her about it.  I kind of didn't know how to respond.  It was brought up in the context of newborn care.  I think she was just as surprised when I told her that I didn't know anything about post-circumcision care since we had not planned to circumcise Kate had she been a boy.

    Also shocking, DH is uncircumcised but his brother is.  They are 3 years apart and used to share a room.  Neither of them knew about the other.  Maybe they are just supremely unobservant, but it kind of makes the locker room argument a moot point.  :)

     

    Sorry I posted and ran...I'm working right not (the babe is down for nap)  Yes, it was the "consent" part.   As other's said we do a lot of things without our kids "consent." I didn't offend me knowing who is was coming from (fjaril- sorry I should have said that in the original post, because I know her and know she did not mean it that way) but in general yes I think it is an offensive statement.

  • I don't have anything new to add really, just that I can empathize. We had big disagreements/discussions over this, we agonized over the decision. So much that I was secretly hoping we'd have a girl to avoid the circ decision. (we didn't know gender until birth). I am Jewish and we had already agreed to raise our kids Jewish. Dh did not want to circ. My ds1 was born on a Tuesday and we hemmed and hawed until Sunday to call the mohel. (circ done on 8th day). Anyway, I was a complete wreck that day. Thank goodness the mohel was also a pediatrician bc he caught a defect that the midwives missed and it turned out he would have to have surgery which would require the foreskin, so he'd be circ'd regardless. Anyway, just wanted to empathize w you on the hard decision!!!
  • My dh and I didn't agree on this issue at all either. In fact, we "discussed" it on the way to the hospital in labor. We ended up not circ and I'm really happy I caved now. And actually dh is one of those men who begrudges the procedure was done to him and has voiced that to his parents. It is short sighted to believe you won't answer for parenting decisions like vaccinating and circ. We have a teenager who wishes he wasn't either vaccinated or circ'd. I'd also say more than about 60ish % of his friends are angry over being vaccinated as well. It's an interesting conversation for sure. One we haven't had with his friends about circ obviously. My point, your decisions will be scrutinized by your children. 
  • I didn't see any reason to do it either. And little boys don't have to know how to care for it. The foreskin doesn't retract on its own for a while, and then they can be taught how to care for it. DH is not circ'd, probably because he is not American, and he thought it was a silly question when I asked him if we'd circ Sparky. He thought only Jewish people were circumcised. 

    This is the same kid who lived in rural Romania for many years and went weeks without a bath. He has never had an infection.  

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  • imagecarlinlp:
    My dh and I didn't agree on this issue at all either. In fact, we "discussed" it on the way to the hospital in labor. We ended up not circ and I'm really happy I caved now. And actually dh is one of those men who begrudges the procedure was done to him and has voiced that to his parents. It is short sighted to believe you won't answer for parenting decisions like vaccinating and circ. We have a teenager who wishes he wasn't either vaccinated or circ'd. I'd also say more than about 60ish % of his friends are angry over being vaccinated as well. It's an interesting conversation for sure. One we haven't had with his friends about circ obviously. My point, your decisions will be scrutinized by your children. 

    Why?

  • imageMrsAJL:

    imagecarlinlp:
    My dh and I didn't agree on this issue at all either. In fact, we "discussed" it on the way to the hospital in labor. We ended up not circ and I'm really happy I caved now. And actually dh is one of those men who begrudges the procedure was done to him and has voiced that to his parents. It is short sighted to believe you won't answer for parenting decisions like vaccinating and circ. We have a teenager who wishes he wasn't either vaccinated or circ'd. I'd also say more than about 60ish % of his friends are angry over being vaccinated as well. It's an interesting conversation for sure. One we haven't had with his friends about circ obviously. My point, your decisions will be scrutinized by your children. 

    Why?

    I'm curious about this too.  Are they unhappy about a specific vaccination or that they were vaccinated at all?  I think you all know that we follow an alt vaccination schedule, but I don't get being angry about it once it's done unless they have had some kind of reaction to it?  Or is it like they would rather have caught chicken pox and had the lifetime immunity? 

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  • I don't know. It was part of a project for his leadership class. Reasons weren't given on the survey but they were discussed in class. 
  • I don't know. It was part of a project for his leadership class. Reasons weren't given on the survey but they were discussed in class. 

    Eta:  his close group of friends are all vaxed and most of them have said they wish they weren't. One of the girls said she wonders if she'd have allergies and dyslexia without them. She wished her parents would have not vaxed. Apparently vaxing is a hot topic in class, they talk a lot about it and our crappy food supply often. 
  • Ps I don't want to turn this in to a vax debate, sorry op I just wanted to point out that we do have to answer to our children for the choices we make. 
  • I want to know "why" too!  Vax aren't discussed much with my IRL friends, even those with kids the same age as mine.  I'm really surprised teenagers have much info about this issue (aside from Ty, of course) or even care to care. 

    Maybe this should be its own post?

    ETA: Nevermind.  We must have been posting at the same time.  Thanks for the reply carlinlp!

  • Oh they defInitely talk about it. Ty never brought it up prior to his project but I'd say 5 or so kids are pretty outspoken about it.Pst of this group is not aware that he has a vaccine injured brother. I doubt circumsion is as openly discussed in large groups on the 8th grade lol. DS wishes he wasn't though. 
  • imagecarlinlp:
    My dh and I didn't agree on this issue at all either. In fact, we "discussed" it on the way to the hospital in labor. We ended up not circ and I'm really happy I caved now. And actually dh is one of those men who begrudges the procedure was done to him and has voiced that to his parents. It is short sighted to believe you won't answer for parenting decisions like vaccinating and circ. We have a teenager who wishes he wasn't either vaccinated or circ'd. I'd also say more than about 60ish % of his friends are angry over being vaccinated as well. It's an interesting conversation for sure. One we haven't had with his friends about circ obviously. My point, your decisions will be scrutinized by your children. 

    First of all, no one here said anything about not having to answer to their kids for their parenting decisions. Of course your decisions will be scrutinized by your children.  Not letting my child drink at age 16, or not letting her go and hang out at the mall with her friends, or not letting her smoke pot in my home... all of those decisions will be judged by her.  Does it make me care or change my mind?  Nope.  If I think it's better for her health and wellbeing, just like vaccinations (and, for some people, circumcision), then I am going to do it anyway. 

    What are their reasons for being "angry" about being vaccinated?  This is preposterous to me.  Is it possible that your son's friends are aware of your position on vaccines and are reacting to that?  I have never met anyone who wished they weren't vaccinated.

    You have a very particular set of circumstances: either your kid reacted badly to the correct dose of the vaccine or he was given too much of a vaccine- I haven't been able to figure it out.  His outlying reaction is not even remotely common, which I guess is why you had such a hard time figuring out what was going on with him.  I don't see why teens would care at all if they were vaccinated, much less be angry about it, if they didn't have a reaction to it.  

  • I was responding to Ali who posted "As far as consent goes...I don't know any man walking around mourning the loss of his foreskin."  I do, my dh and my oldest ds....both with they were not circ'd.  So I don't agree with that statement.

    I'm sure those kids have their reasons.  I know Ty's reasons, he's not happy about what was put in to his body and feels he'd be healthier without all the extra stuff his vaccines included (they were much more metal heavy back then).  I'd say 5 of his friends are aware, so no, the vast majority of those surveyed in his project have no clue, it's not something DS likes to talk about publicly.  I've met plenty of people who regret vaccinating, so I can't relate to you there.  Of course, circ isn't such an open subject, so who really knows how many men regret that decision being made for them.  Talking about the average peni isn't usually dinner conversation LOL.

    I'd also argue that Teagan's vax reaction is common, there are vaccine injured children everywhere.  Just because you don't know them, doesn't mean they don't exist.  It is much more common that I realized before it happened to us.  Maybe that's why his doctor has a 3 month waiting list for new patients though.

  • imagecarlinlp:
    Talking about the average peni isn't usually dinner conversation LOL.

    Clearly we need to have you over for dinner at the Rssn household.

    Wink 

    Dear Bump: You suck.
  • imagerssnlvr:

    imagecarlinlp:
    Talking about the average peni isn't usually dinner conversation LOL.

    Clearly we need to have you over for dinner at the Rssn household.

    Wink 

    Can we come by on a night that dancing with the stars is on?  We could talk about peni and be privy to the dance routines ;)

  • imagecarlinlp:
    imagerssnlvr:

    imagecarlinlp:
    Talking about the average peni isn't usually dinner conversation LOL.

    Clearly we need to have you over for dinner at the Rssn household.

    Wink 

    Can we come by on a night that dancing with the stars is on?  We could talk about peni and be privy to the dance routines ;)

    Perfect! Nothing says dinner party like penis-talk and dance moves.

    Dear Bump: You suck.
  • imagerssnlvr:
    imagecarlinlp:
    imagerssnlvr:

    imagecarlinlp:
    Talking about the average peni isn't usually dinner conversation LOL.

    Clearly we need to have you over for dinner at the Rssn household.

    Wink 

    Can we come by on a night that dancing with the stars is on?  We could talk about peni and be privy to the dance routines ;)

    Perfect! Nothing says dinner party like penis-talk and dance moves.

    Ooh! Or dancing peni!

  • Thanks for all of the input!  I appreciate differing opinions because I have been know to: 1) be wrong and 2) change my mind.  But I am sorry if anyone was offended or got her feelings hurt - that wasn't my intention at all. 

    Now off to start a formula vs. breastmilk debate.....

    BabyFruit Ticker
    "There is a fine line between a princess and a witch...thinking you're one does NOT give you the right to act like the other." my grandmother
  • imageabh1977:

    Thanks for all of the input!  I appreciate differing opinions because I have been know to: 1) be wrong and 2) change my mind.  But I am sorry if anyone was offended or got her feelings hurt - that wasn't my intention at all. 

    Now off to start a formula vs. breastmilk debate.....

    I didn't mean to make it take a nose dive, I obviously used the wrong wording. I just wanted to stress the importance of having a dialogue b/c you can't change you mind later if you go down one of the roads. Also, just b/c you don't have a penis, doesn't mean you don't get an opinion. 

    Lots of luck to you guys. 

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  • It's your son's penis. If he wants it done, he can have it done when he's old enough to make the decision for himself. When we started researching circumcision, my husband (who was circ'd as a baby) was upset to find out how many nerve-endings he lost via the circ, and he now wonders how sex could have been if he'd been left intact. We agreed that if our son wanted it done, we'd pay for it, but we didn't have a right to make a cosmetic decision like that for him.

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