When do kids understand the concept of wasting and that things cost money?

northernvabride

Last night, DD#1 (38 months old), who has become very independent with picking her dinner and preparing it, wanted to mix crackers, ketchup, ravioli, green beans, and diced peaches together in a bowl to eat.  I had to make the ravioli so I said to her that if I did and she put it in her bowl, she would need to eat it since I didn't want to waste it.  She agreed.  Then she did not eat one bite of her special dinner.  DH didn't want to let her leave the table until she ate it all.  I tried to reason with her and tell her that she agreed to eat it and it would go to waste if she didn't.  And food costs money.  DH decided he should try to force feed her to show her that if she asks for something and we make it for her, she has to eat it.  I stopped him from doing this at the cost of us getting in a big fight about her learning this lesson.  She then said her tummy hurt and she went to bed without any dinner.  Later, we talked about it and he said he didn't see anything wrong with trying to force feed her to teach her this lesson, and that his mom had done this when he and his 3 brothers were growing up.  So, we're obviously coming from different places with our experiences.  I just wanted to see what people thought on when kids understand wasting thing and that things cost money (which doesn't grow on trees).  The next time she wants to do something like this again, I think I will remind her about the last time and give her one more chance possibly, but then not fulfill her wishes if she wastes again. 

claraj

She's 3. I think your DH needs to chill out. Force feeding her is not going to teach her anything except that being physically forceful is an acceptable way to get someone to do what you want.

My DD is 3 also, so I understand that sometimes it's frustrating. I cook meals that she claims she wants and then she won't eat. I think at this age, all you can do is reinforce with words what you want her to know.

northernvabride

I agree on the force feeding, which is why we got in a fight.  DH has a few things like this, where it was how it was when he grew up, and not how I grew up, that we have butted heads over.  While I was frustrated at the wasting, it was more that she agreed to do something and didn't, which is about keeping true to your word.  But she is 3, so I can only try to encourage her to do the right thing and keep her word. 

QueSrah

I don't think you can really understand the concept of wasting money until you learn how hard it is to earn money in the first place.  Money is way too abstract for a three year old.  At the point that a child begins earning an allowance and want to save up to buy something expensive, he/she might begin to understand how it's wasteful to make a dinner you then won't eat.  But I don't think it's really something you can teach a 3 y.o. effectively.  Maybe at age 5 or 6?  (What do I know?  My kid is 2.  She thinks that running water for 5 minutes to play in the sink is the best thing ever.  We're a long way away from a useful reference point as a parent!)

MrsPhilDunphy

Honestly, I think where you went wrong was letting her have that concoction in the first place. Because, come on, did you really think she was going to eat that? But then again, we're a very "Here's what's for dinner, this is what you're eating" family. I think if you're going to give a three year old that much control over dinner, you have to accept that it might go in the trash.

northernvabride

MrsPhil, the night before she had eaten almost the same thing but without the ravioli, so I thought there was a good chance she would actually eat it.  She loves ketchup on everything, fruits, veggies, oatmeal, you name it.  This is a very new thing, where she wants to pick dinner out, so we are still trying to figure out boundaries.  She is a picky eater in general and we only have 5-6 dinner meals we cook (I am picky and have allergies, both of which I hope I haven't passed on to my girls), and she doesn't like most of them on a consistent enough basis to not make her something separate for dinner...so she usually eats mac and cheese or ravioli.  I would love to be at the point where both girls ate what we were eating for dinner, but neither does.  Sigh...

hsbbride

MrsPhilDunphy:

Honestly, I think where you went wrong was letting her have that concoction in the first place. Because, come on, did you really think she was going to eat that? But then again, we're a very "Here's what's for dinner, this is what you're eating" family. I think if you're going to give a three year old that much control over dinner, you have to accept that it might go in the trash.

I have a 6 month old so I'm by no means an expert, but I tend to agree with MPD here.  Also, this is how I grew up. Mom wasn't a short order cook, I could either eat what she made for dinner or go to bed hungry. The only expection was liver and onions night which I HATED but everyone else loved. And it still took at least a half dozen times of me saying I hated it before I was allowed to have something else.

BirdGirl01

I think there are competing lessons here - creativity and waste.  I'd let creativity win at 3.  In the future I'd probably say something like, why don't we try this with a little of your food first and see if you like it.  When she doesn't, offer the plain ravioli as an alternative.  I wouldn't want to force her to eat something gross and have her see it as a punishment for trying something new. 

ETA:  I don't think I'd make it about wasting money at that age either.  I think money is such an abstract concept.  I'd make it about wasting food - i.e., what is directly in front of her.

frogdogny

I think it is ok to give your child some say in what she wants to eat, but I also think that, as the parent, you have to be the "rational voice of reason" at the same time. She had no idea that the concotion would not work well together - after all, she loves all those foods so why wouldn't they be great together, right? Yeah, you had to know it probably would be pretty grody. Perhaps you could have allowed her the freedom to be creative and try it, but on a limited scale - i.e., only make a couple of bites worth of the creation - so that when she realizes she doesn't like it, you won't have wasted the whole thing.

SImilar to other posters, I don't agree with your husband's idea of force feeding her. But I do think it would be ok to send her to bed without anything else if she refused to eat her concoction. She won't starve.

As far as the next time... I think you can certainly remind her of what happened the last time, but you also need to be the reasonable person here if she insists on an unreasonable request and use some parental discretion in how much you give her or decide not to give it to her at all.

As far as you question about when do kids learn the value of $$, I agree with the prior poster who said once you know what it means to truly earn and save it (and be without it!) then maybe you can understand that. A child of 3 has no such concept. An older child may start to understand a little about "wasting food" or that "things cost money", but they really have no concept of the value of money and that it doesn't grow on trees, per se. So you're still at a loss. GL!

MrsPhilDunphy

frogdogny:

As far as the next time... I think you can certainly remind her of what happened the last time, but you also need to be the reasonable person here if she insists on an unreasonable request and use some parental discretion in how much you give her or decide not to give it to her at all.

 

I think my response came out a little more "my way or the highway" than I intended, but this is basically what I meant. 

If C doesn't like what I make for dinner, then he can have fruit. But he can't have fruit, yogurt, pasta and a random condiment all mixed up in a bowl. Not only because that's not how it works in our house, but because I know the only one eating that mess is the dog. 

vml14

MrsPhilDunphy:

But then again, we're a very "Here's what's for dinner, this is what you're eating" family. I think if you're going to give a three year old that much control over dinner, you have to accept that it might go in the trash.

 I agree with this.  I make 1 thing for dinner, and it's for all of us.  If she doesn't like it, quite honestly, too bad.  She won't starve.  Our LO has food allergies, so the only time I make something different for her is if we are eating something she actually can't eat -- which is rare.  And usually it's just an allergen free variation of what we are eating.  For breakfast and lunch, I offer her 2 choices, and she picks one.  If as she's eating it she decides she wanted the other, too bad, she's stuck with it.  I figure if she's truly hungry, she'll eat it.  We never force food, but we also don't make more than 1 meal.

I think waste is a pretty heavy concept in general for a 3 yo.  I know my DD wouldn't understand one bit about wasting money, or food, for that matter, so using it as the reason why she shouldn't have mixed them together (or not eaten it) doesn't work.  Those just aren't concepts that are tangible enough for little ones.   Instead, you could leave her with the concoction she made, tell her it was that or nothing, and let her go to bed hungry.  That's a consequence that is tangible and understandable for her.  I wouldn't spend much time trying to get her to understand waste at this point.

northernvabride

Thanks everyone for the input.  She seems like such a grown up sometimes that it is hard to remove myself enough to realize she is only 3.  Reading all this makes it so obvious that she is too young to understand the concept of wasting money.  I will work on more tangible things instead like wasting food. 

Artslvr

I didn't read all the responses but I think trying to get her to understand "waste" might be a little much - we took the lead of DDs' preschool and do what they do - talk about all the time and energy and love that went into cooking the meal, and how each kid must take a "thank you" bite of everything to respect the person who cooked the meal.

Honestly we don't always cook meals that the kids can eat, and those are the nights we play short order cook and make them something else.  We are not "you will eat what we eat and if not too bad" on nights when DH makes, say, a Mexican casserole that's spicy. 

It's definitely not black and white in our house. 

Sofka

I read somewhere that you can't expect a child under 5 to understand logic, and you can't reason with a kid under 5. My 3 y.o. also seems so grown up and I have talked to her about $$ and that Mommy and Daddy go to work to earn money so we can buy things. Not sure how much she understands. I have talked about being wasteful (letting water run, etc).  DH has used analogies, i.e.: instead of saying this costs $10, he'll say, this costs however many Nemo (dolls), something she can understand.

(the other day I was coughing so much, my heart hurt and I said, oh my heart hurts, and DD says: why don't you just buy a new one? So yea, not sure how much is actually sinking in but at least she knows what buying is).

As for the food, yea, don't force, I think forcing your kid to eat something is a sure way to making that kid into a very picky adult eater.

We all do our best!

 

Hey Jellisy

Artslvr:

talk about all the time and energy and love that went into cooking the meal, and how each kid must take a "thank you" bite of everything to respect the person who cooked the meal.

I love this.  DD can be picky on occasion, and I was wondering how to encourage her to just try a bite.  (The girl will eat every stinky vegetable known to man - broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, but won't try honey glazed carrots - she loves them raw, grr... they are so much more delicious cooked).  

Sofka

Hey Jellisy:

Artslvr:

talk about all the time and energy and love that went into cooking the meal, and how each kid must take a "thank you" bite of everything to respect the person who cooked the meal.

I love this.  DD can be picky on occasion, and I was wondering how to encourage her to just try a bite.  (The girl will eat every stinky vegetable known to man - broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, but won't try honey glazed carrots - she loves them raw, grr... they are so much more delicious cooked).  

I am with your DD on this one! I love raw veggies but don't like them (pretty much hate them, won't touch cooked carrots, yuck!!) cooked. Steamed - sometimes

 

Useonfire

My DH tried to force feed DS once, and that was the very last time.  He grew up in a house where that worked.  I grew up in a house where what was for dinner was what was for dinner, and we had dinner time, and if your food wasn't consumed in that time, you went without.  Honestly, I agree more with the approach I grew up with. 

We generally make things that we think DS will eat or at least try.  He used to be extremely adventurous with food (his favorites are sushi, and spicy peruvian chicken) but he's less willing to try new things now unless he really thinks he will like them. On occasion, we'll make something we KNOW he won't eat or doesn't like at all (steak comes to mind) and DS can eat 3-4 eggs for dinner with carrots, or he can have a bowl of veggies and fruits.  Those are his options.  For breakfast and lunch, I ask him what he'd like - a bowl of cereal, some waffles, pancakes, eggs etc and he chooses. For lunch, there are much less options, and I usually offer him a kid standard, either grilled cheese, or PB&J.  

I totally agree with the "thank you bite" or just trying what is offered.  I am very pro-teaching my kids to try new things.  If they don't like them, that's their prerogative, but they need to be open-minded enough to give it a shot.