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Babies: 6 - 9 Months
agytay
member
Playdate question (Primarly for vaxers)
agytay
member
First, let me make a disclaimer that this post is not intended to start a debate on vax vs. anit-vax.
For those that vax, do you limit your LO's playdates and playmates to only vaxers?We just had a huge rift in my usual playgroup when it was decided we would limit the group to vaxers only due to teething, toy-sharing, drooling, etc. The non-vaxers were offended and up and arms. Even more surprisingly was a couple of vaxers dropped out because they wanted the group to be all-inclusive.
I am just curious, what do other people do?
ETA: This is a group that meets weekly and several of the babies (4 to 10 months) have already travelled internationally (e.g., Peru, Argentina, Germany, Tawain, etc.). The topic was discovered when a non-vaxer gloated how she has yet to take her 11 month old to the ped.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Playdate question (Primarly for vaxers)
Life with Blog
IMO-and this is just my opinion not meant to be rude.
I think this is stupid. Just because a kid is not vaccinated does not mean they are going to give something to a kid that is. It is just as likely that a vax child will give another vax child a virus or anything when they are sharing teehter.
I would not share teethers whether they are vax. or unvax. I would not discriminate against anyone for their choice to vax or not vax their child and I look down on people who do discriminate.
I vaccinate but I completely understand why parents choose not to.
Why do non vaxers need to be more open minded? It is usually moms who vax that have a fit when they find a parent that chooses not to. I have never seen a mom who does not vax attack a mom who does. But I have seen plenty of moms who do vax attack moms who dont.
Why does an unvaxed child expose your child to disease? Doesn't a vaxed child that could carry the disease but never contract it be more likely to expose it to your child? If the unvaxed child was sick, they should not be at the play group just as a vaxed child should not be. But if they are healthy what is the big deal?
I think the issue is that vaccinations come at different appointments for each child. So some of the non-vaxed kids could be carrying something that another baby hasn't gotten the vaccination for yet, and could pass it on to them. For example, if one of the nonvaxers' babies got the measles, but my baby hasn't gotten that shot yet, he could get it too. The germs could get passed long before anyone realizes anything is wrong.
I agree with GhostMonkey.
An unvaxed child can carry something and not show symptoms yet. They then could expose that to children that have not yet received the vaccine for that particular illness, or to children who are unable to get it for other reasons.
THIS MAKES NO SENSE TO ME?
I am assuming you are doing a play date with babies that are all around the same age. If your baby could not get the measles vaccine yet, how could the nonvaxing parent have gotten their child the vaccine yet? Even a vaccinated baby would not have that vaccine yet. So both babies are just as likely to give it to your baby.
While I agree that this is possible isn't it just as possible that the same thing could happen with a vaccinated child? They may have contracted a virus that they themselves are too young for the vaccine and spread it to others too young for that vaccine without showing symptoms?
Life with Blog
Okay, I'll try again. (Also no need for all caps, or racial comparisons. This isn't discrimination.) The babies may be 'around' the same age , but they still aren't going to get their shots at the same time. DS gets his shots on the 4th, because it's his birthdate, for example- or very close to it. Hypothetically, my kid is not getting his shots until the 4th next month, but everyone else in my playgroup has babies just a little older than mine, and they got theirs before him. Meanwhile, the nonvaxed baby is never getting it. So until DS gets his shot, the nonvaxed baby is the only one in the group who could pass it on to mine.
I'm not personally suggesting to you what I would do, just explaining the reasoning. It would depend on the situation for me.
I'm just saying, the belief that nonvaxed kids can't hurt anything as long as everyone else is vaxed is false. We all benefit from the 'herd immunity' in society as a whole.
Well, yes, that is also possible. (I didn't mean for it to sound like it wasn't.) But at least once those babies are vaccinated, they are no longer susceptible to it and won't get it again, and won't spread it to anyone else. Meanwhile, a nonvaxed child will continue to possibly be a carrier for an illness.
Jcole, you know I love you, but that's dumb. Race is not a contagious disease. The playdates we go to have my LO, two 2 year olds, a 5 year old, and soon, 2 infants. Even if they were all the same ages, there are siblings to consider.
Vaccines are not perfect. Even if my LO got all of his on time, there is a chance that some of them didn't "take." That's not a reason to NOT vax, but it's a possibility, and I don't feel the need to push my luck.
This is actually pretty offensive. Last time I checked, you can't die from being black...you can die (and infect others) when not vaccinated...talk about an analogy gone wrong.
Maybe I came off wrong. I am not apply that nonvaxed kids can't hurt anything as long as everyone else is vaxed. I believe it is just as likely that a vax child could pass a disease as a non vaxed child.
If you chld is to young to get a vaccine that older kids have gotten, should they be excluded until they can have that vaccine? They would be considered unvaxed and could therefore pass the disease?
Whether a chld is vax or not they are just as likely to be exposed to a disease as any other child living in the same general area. It will not necessary be an unvaxed person that exposes them to the disease. It is not more likely that the person who exposed them to the disease was unvaxed. It is more likely that it was an adult who had been vaccinated when younger and believed they were still protected but were mistaken.
Maybe I am incapable of understanding why unvaccinated children have to be labeled and excluded from groups? If excluding a group of parents and their children for a choice they made is not discrimination what is it?
I think the carrier thing is a risk no matter what to a degree, like you explained. It can happen either way. The more I think about it, the more I think it's the unvaxed kids' parents who should be concerned and cautious. Their kids are the ones the most at risk in this scenario.
I apologize if my analogy is wrong. I also apologize if it is offensive to anyone. It is not meant to be that way it was only meant to make a point. I am sorry.
It's not discrimination, it's a reasonable precaution.
My H keeps guns in the house. WE know they are safe, locked, not loaded, etc, but if someone wasn't comfortable with the "risk" of their child playing in a house with guns in it, I really can't argue with that or get offended when the playgroup won't meet at our house. Having guns in the house is our choice.
It's not reasonable to not let LO play with anyone, ever, until he gets all his shots. It's also not reasonable to not play with a kid who can't get vaxed because of a health reason. But it's perfectly reasonable to expect that someone who CAN get vaxed against a disease that is vaccine preventable SHOULD do so for everyone's benefit.
I don't know where you got the info that diseases are more likely to spread from adults than non-vaxed kids, I'd be happy to read it. Every case that I have read recently has been due to exposure from intentionally non-vaxed kids.
No one is saying (in this thread anyway) that non-vaxed kids shouldn't be allowed in public schools, or church, or stores, or whatever. What people are saying is that it's not ridiculous to not want to ADD potential exposure risks to your kid's life.
I believe it is safe to say that adults that come into contact with my child do not greet him with a wad of spit. Nor do they stick an object in my LO's mouth after it has been in there. The exchange of saliva at these play groups is pretty high, thus increasing the spread of germs.
I don't know. I feel like if you are that worried about it, YOU should be the one to keep your kid at home.
Tons of people choose not to get the flu vaccine and it can be a life threatening illness. Why is it different for other vaccines? My pedi doesn't have the flu vaccine yet. Should I tell people in our playgroup who aren't planning on getting a flu shot for their kid that they need to leave the playgroup to decrease the risk to my kid? Of course not - that's silly. If I'm worried about it, I should keep my kid at home.
(I didn't read too far into the responses)
No, I would not be comfortable spending lots of time with several kids who were not vax'ed. I would look for a play group that does, that hasn't had this drama because that'll never go away now. Good luck.
-m/c at 11w2d due to partial molar 2008 -m/c #2 2009
Beautiful daughter born February 2011
**Ultimate TTCALer 2009**
Nope, if I'm the one being responsible and getting my kid vaxed, we should not be the ones at home. You're right though- if I was THAT worried about any illness, I would keep my kid home. I'm not overly concerned. Again, reasonable precautions. If there are steps I can take to decrease my kid's risk, I'm going to take them.
It sounds like, in OP's situation, there was a general consensus among the families in the playgroup, not one person bossing others around.
This thread really seems like an issue of not agreeing that 1.vaccine preventable diseases can be extremely dangerous and 2. in the absence of a medical contraindication, vaccinating is the responsible, right, and healthiest option.
I actually posted a very similar thread on the SAHM's board recently.
Basically, my sister has a new friend that doesn't vaccinate her two kids at.all. They are school age also so it's not like they're babies home with mom all day KWIM?
There was pretty much a 50/50 split. Some said they totally didn't care. Others said they'd do everything in their power to avoid children they KNOW aren't vaccinated.
I can't imagine limiting the play group officially. I probably would have just stopped going. Then if someone asked I may have said something and maybe a group would have branched from it.
"I'm just saying, the belief that nonvaxed kids can't hurt anything as long as everyone else is vaxed is false. We all benefit from the 'herd immunity' in society as a whole. "
I think this is something people forget.
As someone who seriously considered not vaccing, I am well aware that vaccines are NOT 100% protection.
This really doesn't compare either because the guns aren't going to take themselves out of the case, load themselves, and fire.
That's what diseases do.
It's not a perfect analogy, I know. My point was that we all make choices and have to accept the consequences of those choices.
I agree that vaccinating is the right thing for my child but I am not going to make that choice for anyone else. If I am concerned with my child being exposed to preventable diseases that he has not been vaccinated for, I will remove him from that particular situation. The chances of my kid contracting measles from another kid because they chewed on the same toy are slim. I'm willing to take that chance, I guess. Then again, I don't use a shopping cart cover and make fun of people who do.
I can't wait until you have to start bringing vaccine records to play dates...
Yes, but say the anti-vax household has other children, especially those who are school aged. They are more likely to pass on disease than a FTM or a family with older kids that are vaccinated.
If possible, I would like to avoid my child playing with unvaxed kids (and FTR, I am not a germaphobe at all). The whooping cough outbreak happened and many people died because herd immunity is diminishing due to the non-vax movement.
It's not an unreasonable thing to want to keep your child away from kids who could be carriers of serious illness, especially when your LOs are at an age where they have not received all their vaccines yet and are more susceptible. It's their choice to raise their child however they want, but it's my choice to keep my kid away.
I have never given a thought to whether playmates we vaccinated or not. My nephews are not vaccinated and they held DD when she was days old. Didn't even phase me.
bfp#4 3/19/2014 edd 12/1/2014 please let this be the one!
beta @ 5w0d = 12,026! u/s 4/22/14 @ 8w1d it's twins!
Dup post, bump burp.
1. The type of people that choose not to vax are probably not going to have much in common with DH and I, therefor we won't be in the same play group anyways; and
2. I would make an exception for a family that can't vax due to allergies or severe adverse reactions to vaccines. If you wanted to vax but can't, you understand the basics of science enough that we can still hang out- we would still have the same values- and you probably take other precautions to keep your LO as healthy as possible.
It's not so much that I am anti unvaxed kids, it's more that I am anti anti-vax parents. I run under the assumption that if you really think that it's a good idea not to vax, who knows what other assine parenting decisions you are making.
(Hey, I'm PMSing, you got my full unsensored opinion.)
Ditto.
And even if you're PMSing, you still put it much more eloquently than I would have.
Agreed.
This is for all the caterpillars that never became butterflies. And for all the butterflies that never felt the wind in their wings. And for all the hearts that had hopes and dreams of a wondrous flight together.
Why is an unvaxed chid more likely to pass on a disease? The vaxed child could be a carrier of the disease and never get sick becasue they are immune. That vaxed child would never show symtoms and pass the disease on to your child.
A non vaxed child is not more likely to carry a disease than a vaxed child.
For this particular group, that would be the dealbreaker. Didn't the measles outbreak here result from people that had been overseas? On a normal basis, I can't say I'd be thrilled to let DS play with non-vaxed children if he hadn't had all his vaccines yet but I can't say I'd necessarily forbid it.