Forced Apologies (teens)

StrawberryAlarmClock

A 10th grade student of mine went off on me. He was frustrated because he did not understand the class activity. I let him save face in front of his peers and did not call him out on being unprepared for today's class and for sleeping through 3 of the last 5 classes. I just said, "I understand that you're frustrated. How about you go get a drink of water and cool off. We'll talk in private after class." He let out a string of profanity directed towards me. I, of course, wrote him up. The assistant principal did not give him detention but told him to apologize to me and the entire class. When the student came to class the next day he said, "Mr. Williams told me to say sorry." I waited and he gave me a WTF face. I asked, "alright. Are you going to say sorry?" He said, "I just did." I didn't argue in front of his peers but said, "if your classmates accept your apology, you may have a seat and join us." I then gave him a "Hang Around After Class" slip. It's a small piece of paper with a picture of a monkey hanging in a tree. I slip them silently on student's desks when I need to see them instead of making a big deal. After class, I asked him to explain his definition of an apology. He said "saying sorry" and I asked what he considered forgiveness. Then I asked if he wanted forgiveness and he said he didn't reall care. I believe that a little. I think he just wanted the ordeal forgotten. He would have been just as happy to serve his detention and not have to discuss the matter. In some ways, I agree with the VP's decision to right his wrong (I'm not a believer in detention) but I think a "forced apology" is ridiculous. The VP explained that teens have to learn to apologize. I get that, I do, but I just wonder if we didn't just teach this kid to BS his way out of trouble. Thoughts?

honkytonk_kid

I tend to agree with you that forcing an apology just teaches them to say words. What they really need to learn is how to consider others' feelings and actually BE sorry, but I don't I don't know how to teach that to a teen, especially one who is not your child.

Maybe you can say something like, "I don't feel like your apology was sincere, but I can't MAKE you be sorry. I forgive you though, because I know that you were very frustrated and frustration can make us say things we know we shouldn't. Fortunately, you are in control of your circumstances, and can avoid being unprepared which I believe lead to your frustration. Do you understand the class activity now, or do you want me to help clarify it?"

StrawberryAlarmClock

honkytonk_kid:

I tend to agree with you that forcing an apology just teaches them to say words. What they really need to learn is how to consider others' feelings and actually BE sorry, but I don't I don't know how to teach that to a teen, especially one who is not your child.

Maybe you can say something like, "I don't feel like your apology was sincere, but I can't MAKE you be sorry. I forgive you though, because I know that you were very frustrated and frustration can make us say things we know we shouldn't. Fortunately, you are in control of your circumstances, and can avoid being unprepared which I believe lead to your frustration. Do you understand the class activity now, or do you want me to help clarify it?"

Whoo. That is awesome wording! I'm stowing that away for next time! Thanks!

honkytonk_kid

StrawberryAlarmClock:

honkytonk_kid:

I tend to agree with you that forcing an apology just teaches them to say words. What they really need to learn is how to consider others' feelings and actually BE sorry, but I don't I don't know how to teach that to a teen, especially one who is not your child.

Maybe you can say something like, "I don't feel like your apology was sincere, but I can't MAKE you be sorry. I forgive you though, because I know that you were very frustrated and frustration can make us say things we know we shouldn't. Fortunately, you are in control of your circumstances, and can avoid being unprepared which I believe lead to your frustration. Do you understand the class activity now, or do you want me to help clarify it?"

Whoo. That is awesome wording! I'm stowing that away for next time! Thanks!

Haha thanks! I'm actually terrified of teens, and I'm really impressed with how you as a teacher want to teach them more than "just" your academic subject. I also think it's awesome that you understand how important image is to teens and don't embarrass them in front of peers. to you!

I guess no matter what you say, the main points I would try to make are: 1. You're not fooled by false apologies. 2. They need to take control of their situation and 3. As the authority figure, you are above bickering with them or getting into a power struggle.

StrawberryAlarmClock

EllaHella:

I get both sides.  But to me a forced apology at least makes them face their actions.  It is much harder for them to say that forced apology than serve detention. 

True. I do support the VP in having him face his actions over detention. It's a more memorable life lesson.

angel2288

I dont understand forced apologies. For me its hypocritical, we tell kids not to lie, but apologizing to someone when you are not truely sorry is lying. If he didnt want to apologize, he could have served detention, or did an afternoon of community service for the school IMO

KateLouise

I'm a high school teacher and so of course deal with adolescent tantrums and outbursts from time to time.

I generally ask the kid to stay behind and discuss the situation.

I never force an apology but generally go through a series of questions so that we both get to have our say.

eg.

"tell me about your behaviour in class today."

"do you think that behaviour was ok?"

"How do you think your behaviour might have made me feel?"

"What brought the behaviour on/made you so mad/lead to you acting that way?" (often this gives me a part of the story I might have been unaware of like another kid being mean, or something I did that pissed the kid off, or just something about the situation that they didn't understand.

This in turn gives me a chance to explain things....

- well when I did/said x, y and z it was because blah blah blah) 

"What can we/I do in the future to try and avoid this happening again?" (kids often come up with good solutions like not sitting near a certain student or them asking to step outside if they feel anger building etc)

Then once we've talked it all through I usually end with something like, "I felt really disrespected when you swore at me, what could you do right now to make that better?" which inevitably leads to a (reasonably genuine) apology.

I'm also careful to apologise for my behaviour as relevant because sometimes I do make a mistake with students in how I speak with them, or a decision I make.

I also make sure the student knows that the next class will be a whole fresh start, I won't be holding a grudge.

Plus by the time all of that conversation has taken place they've given up a chunk of their break time, so it kind of serves as detention as well. 

 

Bride2b2004

I like the suggestions by pps.  With DS (only 5) I try to help him recognize his emotion and find the words.  But I will just add that IMO, forced apologies are not ridiculous in circumstances where there was conduct that was completely over the line (like cursing out a teacher, etc.).  I remember being a teen and even when I was sorry, for some reason, it was VERY hard to say... and I remember a particular incident when my Dad forced me to apologize for something (which I resented with a passion at the time), but it turns out that forcing me to apologize at times did help me find the words on my own later on.

StrawberryAlarmClock

fredalina:

KateLouise:

I'm a high school teacher and so of course deal with adolescent tantrums and outbursts from time to time.

I generally ask the kid to stay behind and discuss the situation.

I never force an apology but generally go through a series of questions so that we both get to have our say.

eg.

"tell me about your behaviour in class today."

"do you think that behaviour was ok?"

"How do you think your behaviour might have made me feel?"

"What brought the behaviour on/made you so mad/lead to you acting that way?" (often this gives me a part of the story I might have been unaware of like another kid being mean, or something I did that pissed the kid off, or just something about the situation that they didn't understand.

This in turn gives me a chance to explain things....

- well when I did/said x, y and z it was because blah blah blah) 

"What can we/I do in the future to try and avoid this happening again?" (kids often come up with good solutions like not sitting near a certain student or them asking to step outside if they feel anger building etc)

Then once we've talked it all through I usually end with something like, "I felt really disrespected when you swore at me, what could you do right now to make that better?" which inevitably leads to a (reasonably genuine) apology.

I'm also careful to apologise for my behaviour as relevant because sometimes I do make a mistake with students in how I speak with them, or a decision I make.

I also make sure the student knows that the next class will be a whole fresh start, I won't be holding a grudge.

Plus by the time all of that conversation has taken place they've given up a chunk of their break time, so it kind of serves as detention as well. 

 

I love this answer!

This is like a teen version of a Time In.

StrawberryAlarmClock

Bride2b2004:

I like the suggestions by pps.  With DS (only 5) I try to help him recognize his emotion and find the words.  But I will just add that IMO, forced apologies are not ridiculous in circumstances where there was conduct that was completely over the line (like cursing out a teacher, etc.).  I remember being a teen and even when I was sorry, for some reason, it was VERY hard to say... and I remember a particular incident when my Dad forced me to apologize for something (which I resented with a passion at the time), but it turns out that forcing me to apologize at times did help me find the words on my own later on.

This is a good point. I guess I was giving teens more credit for their own Emotional Intelligence than perhaps they are ready to take on.

Tonya_G

I tell my second graders when they need to apologize to people that they need to take care of business and make things right when they've hurt someone and owe an apology. I don't hang around to see that they've made it, I don't force them to do so, but 9x out of 10, I hear them a minute or so later, after they've cooled off and realize they've screwed up, going up to their friend and apologizing.

I do the same with my son, and it gets a genuine apology out of him, whereas when someone in my family "makes" him apologize (which I don't put a stop to, b/c I want him to realize that sometimes, people in authority over him will demand that of him, and he needs to learn to comply that way too), it's a quick, muttered, not "real" apology. I then later discuss it with him, if I overheard it, and we talk about how he can really make things right.

I don't care for forced apologies. I do however, think that children need to be taught to apologize when they screw up and when they hurt others, either physically or emotionally.

I once had a student, after I'd said this, tell me her mama said she never had to apologize to anyone. I flat out told her that if that was the case, good luck to her in holding down a job, because if she ever spoke to her boss the way she spoke to me, she'd never keep a job. I just saw her recently, and she's grown up some... first words out of her mouth were, "I'm sorry, Ms. G, for being such a pain back in middle school. You were right." Sometimes, it takes a LONG time to hear the apology, but when that seed is planted... it will, most likely, eventually germinate.

terri_doula2010

I definitely think any apology is better than no apology, BUT I think as a society we all need to work harder to teach kids how to be polite at a young age. Sure you start by saying, "Say thank you!" But the words are empty if (at an appropriate age) you don't follow that up by explaining WHY you say thanks/sorry/please/etc is important, and how to do it sincerely and WHY you should do it sincerely.

 I babysat a 10 yr old for a while this summer and he is a really sweet kid, but at one point he made a rather rude demand of my husband. I said, "If you ask him Nicely, he may do it for you." and the kid didn't respond. I gave him a few more chances and then said, "Well I guess you don't want him to do blah if you won't ask nicely." The kid was just sullen. Later on when DH and kid were alone the kid asked if DH was going to do the thing. He reiterated the asking nicely thing, and the kid said he didn't know HOW to ask nicely. DH and he worked on it and then he did in fact ask nicely (just said please, and not in a demanding tone) and DH did the thing. I can't even believe a 10 yr old wouldn't understand something so basic. If he was playing us he did it very well, as DH says he sounded sincere in his confusion.

That was a good learning experience for me and I intend to make sure my kids UNDERSTAND these things...so even if they refuse, at least they know what they are refusing, and the have the opportunity to MEAN it when they apologize.

susanmosley

KateLouise:

I'm a high school teacher and so of course deal with adolescent tantrums and outbursts from time to time.

I generally ask the kid to stay behind and discuss the situation.

I never force an apology but generally go through a series of questions so that we both get to have our say.

eg.

"tell me about your behaviour in class today."

"do you think that behaviour was ok?"

"How do you think your behaviour might have made me feel?"

"What brought the behaviour on/made you so mad/lead to you acting that way?" (often this gives me a part of the story I might have been unaware of like another kid being mean, or something I did that pissed the kid off, or just something about the situation that they didn't understand.

This in turn gives me a chance to explain things....

- well when I did/said x, y and z it was because blah blah blah) 

"What can we/I do in the future to try and avoid this happening again?" (kids often come up with good solutions like not sitting near a certain student or them asking to step outside if they feel anger building etc)

Then once we've talked it all through I usually end with something like, "I felt really disrespected when you swore at me, what could you do right now to make that better?" which inevitably leads to a (reasonably genuine) apology.

I'm also careful to apologise for my behaviour as relevant because sometimes I do make a mistake with students in how I speak with them, or a decision I make.

I also make sure the student knows that the next class will be a whole fresh start, I won't be holding a grudge.

Plus by the time all of that conversation has taken place they've given up a chunk of their break time, so it kind of serves as detention as well. 

 

Nice. 

CalinsBride

I 100% disagree with forced apologies. It just teaches the kid that all they have to do is say sorry, then they're not in trouble. I think just explaining to them how their actions have affected others is more appropriate. If they want to apologize, then they will. If not, a forced apology means nothing.