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July 2011 Moms
MCH77
member
CP: DH/SO Circumsision
MCH77
member
Was your DH/SO circumcised?
[Poll]BFP #1 March 24, 2010; missed m/c May 26, 2010 @ 12w 4d; D&E May 28, 2010
BFP #2 Oct 20, 2010; My little boy was born on July 5, 2011
BFP #3 April 30, 2013; Chemical Pg May 5, 2013
BFP #4 Aug 22, 2013; It's a boy. Loss discovered at 24 weeks on Jan 15, 2014 (cause CMV virus)
We love and miss you Timothy
BFP #5 April 6, 2014; missed m/c May 15, 2014 @ 9 weeks; Misoprostol May 15, 2014; D&C May June 3, 2014
This discussion has been closed.
Re: CP: DH/SO Circumsision
My DH is having reservations about circumcision too....we haven't decided (well...come to a MUTUAL decision) yet but DH always thinks the "wanting to look like Daddy" argument (which I use in my pro-circ rationale) is weird. He says he never once compared (or has even seen his father's) penis and wonders who these guys are who show them to their sons!
I've never seen my mom's vag or boobs (well, I haven't seen her boobs since breastfeeding days anyway....)
That being said. I want my son circ'd. We will see how this plays out though.
MH is NOT circumcised. If LO is a boy, we will not be getting him circumcised. My MIL has 4 boys, got the three older ones done and then not my husband. She said she never noticed a difference in not getting in done with him, and felt better she didn't because she thought it was painful to her other boys.
I wouldn't be opposed to it though and neither is DH. We thought about the cleaning it, and being different/the same as his Dad. But the pros and cons medically are so 50/50 and since it's no longer covered by Alberta Health Care we'd have to pay for it anyway. It's $200 but for something 50/50 why spend the money I guess.
My Blogs -
Why would it be so hard to explain it to LO?
The parent child debates a dumb one when it comes down to it. There is such a huge difference between a childs penis & an adults that even if ones circ'ed & ones not the kid wont know the difference.
Our son has seen Jeffs, we were teaching him how to potty train standing up & Jeff showed him. He's never mentioned a word about it since. Its just not a big deal.
My sons (13 and 5) are intact and their father is circumcised. This has never been an issue. In fact- when my oldest son found out what circumcision is he was happy that it had not happened to him. There is no reason that boys can not have this simply explained in age appropriate terms- it's not "confusing" ... and really- isn't this idea that you can avoid talking about what circumcision is- by doing it - to impose acceptance on a child just to avoid your own discomfort with possibly being asked a question about it a really dishonest way to approach parenting/sexuality and honesty? If circumcision is too awkward to explain the difference- what are you saying- that you intend to raise your son to believe that all boys are born circumcised or that circumcision is necessary? Why not allow a kid to look like his parent's DNA coded him to be- a human male... there is nothing shameful or confusing about that!! and an added bonus is that from then on- babies can be born in your family already matching their dad and not needing any surgery!
If you read my blog (click picture) I have a bunch of circumcision posts, one of them tells the story of what happened when my husband and I first faced this- and a family story he was never told (more shamed silence to avoid conversations) he was circumcised in 1964 in a Cincinnati hospital without his parent's consent- ALL the male babies were... parents didn't get any say (so if you think all men are circumcised- you should also know that this is HOW that came to be- not from family tradition or choices- but a practice that was instituted in hospitals in an era when people didn't question doctor's orders...some parents thought it was illegal to not circumcise.) His parents were horrified about what had happened- his father was intact, and a native American with no history of circumcision in their culture- but they figured that the doctor knew best and accepted it and never told my husband this story. When his younger brother was born, he was also circumcised. No one questioned.
It's understandable that if you have never seen an intact penis on an adult man, that you might find it strangely different- that's OK... do you remember the first time you ever saw a penis? That was strange too! Your emotional reaction to the difference is normal for a person in a circumcising culture- but the answer is not to change your son's beautiful little perfect body- the answer is to fix your artificially manipulated idea about what the male body is. You can open your mind rather than protect it's narrow view of maleness that was imposed on our friends and lovers when they were 2 days old.
There is a website (a very anti-circumcision website) called "circumstitions.com" and they have a few galleries designed for people just like you- people who just want to learn- (not to get off.) one is a picture gallery of nude adult men- the pictures are from porn sources- but they are very playgirl safe sorts of pin-up pictures... just posed alone and not "doing anything" with themselves or anyone else. This is a safe site to peruse without worrying about porn spam or viruses.
https://www.circumstitions.com/Famous1.html
Another gallery at circumstitions is of famous intact men (with their clothes ON) It's a list of current and historic figures, musicians, actors, sports stars, politicians... people you already know- learning about how many men- (sexy, respected, talented, smart, wonderful men) are enjoying life without having been circumcised might just help it click with you- right now you think everyone is... but Elvis, Will Smith, Liam Neelson, Joe DiMaggio, Mario Lopez, Keanu Reeves, George Washington, David Beckham....not circumcised. It's interesting to open your mind this way and get rid of this idea that all men are circumcised- or that it's needed to be socially acceptable. The intact human body is timeless- not an oddity.
I am running out here in a few minutes, so I will have to read through the blogs/information you provided later. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and information.
I don't mean to come off as unwilling to have discussions or afraid to talk with my child. I am a HS guidance counselor and talk often with my students about sex (safe sex, stds, pregnancy, etc), so I am not nervous about that.
I guess what it comes down to is that I do not have a penis, so I really do not know how having a circumsision or not can affect the individual. It really does not matter. You grow up knowing what you know and when there are questions, we just answer it honestly and explain the history/medical reasons of having or not having one.
DH does not want it done. And I have not pushed the issue, since I feel like he has a better understanding of what it is like (he has the penis). I just want to make sure we are doing the best for the little guy.
For something like this... I hate the internet, all of my thoughts come out messy and sounding like a 3 year old. This is where I need to talk it out IRL with others.
Thank you again for the links.
BFP #1 March 24, 2010; missed m/c May 26, 2010 @ 12w 4d; D&E May 28, 2010
BFP #2 Oct 20, 2010; My little boy was born on July 5, 2011
BFP #3 April 30, 2013; Chemical Pg May 5, 2013
BFP #4 Aug 22, 2013; It's a boy. Loss discovered at 24 weeks on Jan 15, 2014 (cause CMV virus)
BFP #5 April 6, 2014; missed m/c May 15, 2014 @ 9 weeks; Misoprostol May 15, 2014; D&C May June 3, 2014
I agree with the pp. A child's penis and an adult penis are different regardless of if it is circumcised or not. Plus, do kids really stand around staring at their dad's penis? How often would that really happen?
The argument for it "looking like dad's" is an asinine argument.
We'll miss you sweet Debbie Girl (4.21.12) and sweet Cindy Girl (8.9.12)
We'll miss you sweet Debbie Girl (4.21.12) and sweet Cindy Girl (8.9.12)
I would agree with this. Plus, if it does come up in conversation, it will probably be the most "tame" out of all the "sex talks" you should be having with your child throughout their life.
It's interesting, before giving birth, DH and I were of the same mindset:"cut the boy!" However, since birth, DH is more of the "it's not medically needed, blah blah" mindset (I haven't changed my mind). It will be interesting to see how it plays out if we ever have a boy in the future.
The un-cut peen is weird looking to me. I wouldn't date a guy who was un-cut. Unless he was uber rich...then I could be swayed
Shallow, me? Nah.
Oh, and it's part of my religion. I'll just throw that out there, since no matter what I say, it seems to get a free pass on the Bump.
BFP #3 via cancelled IUI ~ C (2lb 3oz; HELLP) 5/16/11
BFP #4 via the natural (free!) way ~ E (8lb 11oz) 9/13/12
I completely agree with you and would definitely want my dc circumcised.
Even though my father was circumcised neither of my brothers were and I asked my mom about any awkward conversations. She said there was never any "why don't we look the same" worries. But, my parents have always talked to us about the human body and how it functions and sex and all that from a very early age, just increasing the amount of information/details appropriately with how old we were and what we were able to understand. They also never had any issues with keeping it clean (nor has my 11-year old nephew) I think this comes from not being truly educated about it and not giving proper instructions to the boys.
DH wants any future son to be circ'd but it's because he believes all the old untruths about it and doesn't want to do the research to see what has come to light as of late. Even though he is circ'd I'd prefer not to do so to a future boy of mine. FWIW of all my friends and family with young boys I know very few who have opted to circumcise. The trend really is changing. Personally, I don't worry about an awkward conversation or two over the health of my child, but it is comforting to know that more and more parents aren't choosing cosmetic surgery for their infant sons.
I suppose I'll get flamed now, but just to warn ya I won't be on much this weekend to "defend myself."
Personally, I don't get this reasoning behind circ'ing at.all. My DH is, but that's because it's what pretty much every Caucasian family in the US did in the 80's. Why must a son's genitalia "look like daddy"? It won't any way, because your husband's penis will likely be a lot bigger and have hair... I know I sure don't compare my vagina to my mom's, much less remember seeing it...undoubtedly there's a difference there too. How hard is it to say "yours is different, that's okay" or "yours is how its supposed to be"...?
Circ rates in the country are hovering around 50% and continuing to decline...for good reason. It's completely unnecessary. This, from someone who had her son circ'd. Sadly, I just didn't even question it until it was too late. Had this child been a boy...he would not have been circumsized. No hesitation or second thought.
Just to be clear, when I sorta fired off about the difficulty of "explaining the difference"- it wasn't anything you said- but the post right after yours- but there is no purpose in pointing out particular posts because the sentiment is extremely common.
All I wanted you to know is that it's a very common worry- and one that's really not justified- when they introduced circumcision to America no one was worried about the psychological trauma of that first generation of circumcised boys not matching their intact dads- but now we see (even in medical Dr.s baby books) suggestions that the father's circumcision or lack of it- should probably be the guiding factor. Another common concern is the parenting learning curve- parents who circumcise their first son, or son with the first husband, or baby they had when they were 18... and then- later- they change their mind about how they feel about circumcision but the fact that one child is already circumcised seems to force their hand because they don't want the brothers to feel different- or truly- the message it might send to the older circumcised son that a mistake (and not even a "mistake" maybe they didn't even make a decision- they just went with the flow- now, when they finally do think about it - they realise they would have done differently) ... so they do it again to avoid sending that message. That's a really difficult (and common) situation.
If you are doing some websurfing- the sheer volume can be really daunting- especially with the SanFrancisco ban on the ballot news that has been really hitting big recently- If you have any specific questions- I might have some search terms to add in with "circumcision" that can help you narrow things down. Remember you don't just want to research cutting it off... you need to also learn what it is that's being cut off- so "function of the foreskin" is an important one.
I highly recommend the CIRP.org library for medical questions- they have a collection of articles from medical journals that are not typically available to the general public. Lots of subjects will have an introductory article and then a lot of journal articles in the footnotes.
Another great resource is youtube. There are many videos available of the actual circumcision procedure, as well as social commentary videos of people talking about their ideas on circumcision. One of the really important youtube vids IMHO is a two part science class style presentation about foreskin anatomy called "The Prepuce"
Last- if you want to read posts here at theBump- because the search feature here is so sketchy- you can use google by plugging in -->
site: community.thebump.com (circumcision)
Hope that helps.
I agree.
However, DS is circumcised and so is H. So, it makes it harder for me to decide what to do... because I don't want DS2 to feel different than his brother.
We are actually opposite of most people I feel. H is not circumcized so I told him that this decision was completely up to him. My research hasn't really shown a strong risk/benefit to either stance, so since he's the one with the anatomy I'll give him the decision.
H is very adamant that if we get a surprise and our LO is a boy, he will be circumcized. He's had a very rough time in the world being uncut in America and refuses to put a child of his through the constant teasing and humiliation (his words) that he had to go through when it came to public restrooms, gym class, gf issues, etc. Yes his mom and dad had the "it's natural and they're just stupid" talk, but that only helps so much.
House / Baby blog
I agree with the gf issues. A lot of women find it disgusting and ugly. I have had MANY conversations about uncircumcised penis's (especially with new moms).
DH is circumcised, but we're not circumcising LOs.
As for looking like daddy, most young children are far more likely to notice the big differences, like size and hair. By the time the boys are old enough to see the difference in foreskin, they'll be old enough to understand that when daddy was a baby, people thought that all boys should have the surgery, but that now people don't think it's necessary.
Edit to add: Since the circumcision rate is currently so much lower than it was when we and our SOs were infants, about half of the boys in the locker room will be intact. It's doubtful the our LOs will feel like they are strange or different, when about half of the kids they encounter will be intact. The same goes for future girlfriends - it's doubtful that women twenty years from now will be as shocked by an uncircumcised penis as some women of our generation seem to be - they'll account for half of what they see!
Spontaneous pregnancy #1
DD1 July 31, 2011
Trying for #2 since Oct 11
Spontaneous pregnancy #2= Ectopic #2= lost left tube
Spontaneous pregnancy #3= DD2 January 29, 2016
Spontaneous pregnancy #4= Ectopic #3
Spontaneous pregnancy #5= Baby #3 is a BOY!!!
I think there is some regional aspect to this "new" debate as well. I only hear about non-circ'ing here on the Bump.
We live in the Midwest and ALL of our friends still circumcise. And, we have A LOT of friends who have had and/or are having boys in the past 5 years.
We don't know anyone NOT circumcising.
We are Jewish so both boys are circ'ed and if this one is another boy he will be as well. But, even if we weren't Jewish, we would still circ.
And, just to add to this: No, not all of our friends are Jewish. We have a lot of non-Jewish friends who still circ.
DD1, Kathleen 9/15/2007
Camden's circ'd. He didnt cry from pain, he cried because of how they had to hold him down to circ him. As soon as they let him go he stopped crying. It didnt hurt him, it didnt even hurt him after when we changed his diapers. I only gave him 2 doses of the tylenol they gave me because it wasnt necessary.
This time around different father we might end up not circ'ing, we'll see. I prefer if baby is a boy we do it though.
Yes, and undoubtedly your husband grew in a time when circumcision rates would've been like 90% of his peers had it done. This is absolutely not the case anymore...in fact, depending on where you live, a circ'd penis is and will be the minority. Nationally, the average is around 50%. Fewer and fewer people are doing it because it is not recommended and it's not necessary. The whole locker room argument has absolutely zero credibility anymore.
I live in Michigan, too. I will agree with you that we do not know a single person IRL who ISN'T circumcising... which is part of the reason I'm having so much trouble convincing DH to not circumcise. SIL just gave birth to a baby boy a month ago - I don't even think they considered NOT circumcising.
However, I'm not a "normal" momma and I don't care. I am CDing (yet again, I don't know anyone IRL who CDs) and I plan to exclusive BF (when everyone else is FFing).
Eh, most recent data I can find is for 2006 and my state is at 76%. I still defer to H on this one.
House / Baby blog