Discussion: bad words...

ladipale

John comes from a family of cursers and drops the F bomb quite frequently (his dad can NOT be tamed when it comes to cursing). I used to ask him to stop, but gave up on that a few years ago. Now that we have a kid, I kind of want him to stop, but his argument then and now has always been the same, and its *starting* to make some sense to me. He says its just a word, why would I not use certain words around our daughter?

My argument is always that she will say them in front of her friends and their parents will get upset. He says he's ready to go to arms with those parents because 'its just a word'.  He's a lawyer, and a fiesty one at that, and he would actually get into this argument with people about 'words'.

Anyway, do you refrain from bad words in front of your kids? Would you be upset if your kids' friends said bad words?

We never use discriminatory language or super vulgar names for body parts. I'd say the worst is F*ck, and $hit and a$$ and b!tch too.

Mrs.K&C

I have a terrible cursing problem. I throw the f-word around super casually, all the time. Sabrina has said sh!t. Then I started laughing so she kept saying it.

I don't say "f-you" or very often use curse words to describe people, and if I do I do not do that in front of the kids. If Sabrina drops something and says, "oh, sh!t", I'm not going to lose sleep over it. I'll say that's a grown up word and leave it at that. 

NorcalLinds

Logan has been known to say "oh f*ck" when he drops something. It's embarassing. I usually say, oh did you say trucks! Oh truck!! I'm not a huge fan of Logan knowing these words but i don't think it's a huge deal. I am trying to be clean up my language around him.

llamakins

I guess I feel pretty strongly about it. I was a teacher before I had DS, so I guess it's at the top of my radar. I'm not sure how old your child is, but all kids start to parrot and repeat words like crazy at some point. I would be horrified if my son said the f word or other curse words more than just "trying it out." Other parents would not want their kids around mine. It's a word that makes many people uncomfortable at school and in the work place. It's inapporpriate for a lot of environments. A lot of people feel that way. If your child said it repeatedly around my son, I wouldn't want them to play together because I would be worried that my son would say it, too. That's probably the response you will get. And one time because he heard it somewhere is not a big deal, because that happens sometimes. If your child is saying it because that's what Daddy says, that would be a deal-breaker. Kids need to learn how to say and do other things when they get frustrated.

tri-reader

I do refrain from bad words around my kids.  Though in extreme cases one or two may have slipped out.  I would rather my kids friends not say anything in front of my kids, especially at a young age. I'd say once they got older I know they've probably heard it at school but I'll insist that in our house we don't say those words.  

For the record, the neighbor's grandkids who seem to always be at their house have taken a liking to my DD and they have really foul mouths.  They are at least 3-4 years older than her so 7-8 range, maybe older and they have used all the words in the book.  I cringe when DD walks over to them to say hi.  I try to avoid her hanging out with them because I don't want DD to learn those words.  

So as an argument to your DH, as a parent if there is a "friend" who curses a lot in my house I wouldn't invite them over again.  Especially if they didn't listen when I say we don't say those words in our house/car/whatever space is mine. 

tri-reader

And as a parent of an older child...things get pretty interesting in preschool.  I know she's just testing it out now but we've already had discussions about what's not appropriate to call people.  I mean the worst she's used so far is "You're stupid" and calling other kids names, but I don't want to hear anything worse than that for a long time.  It's crazy what they catch onto at so young.

kfishie

Both DH and I don't use "typical" swear words.  Never have, don't see the need to.  I do say things like "oh heck," "oh darn," and "crap."  That is about it.  But, I try to limit my use of even those in front of children.  Just my personal preference. 

FWIW, I grew up in a household that did not swear.  My mom didn't even like the use of "crap."  Oooh the rebel I became now that I use that word!  

Mrs_Shmoopie

ladipale:

We never use discriminatory language or super vulgar names for body parts. I'd say the worst is F*ck, and $hit and a$$ and b!tch too.

Why not?  They're "just words."  Although, I suppose words like that aren't used by your DH b/c even he is aware of the power that some words hold. 

Not to sound like I'm judging your DH for his swearing... Because I think grownups can say whatever they want in their own home.   And I used to have quite the mouth back in the day.  But I guess I am kind of judging his argument against it.  If a child dropped the "n" word in front of my child am I not allowed to blame the parents b/c "it's just a word?"  Sorry, that really doesn't sit well w/me.

 Anyway, yeah, I wouldn't be too happy if my kid's friend swore in front of him.  I'd let it go once or twice but I'd probably talk to the kid and definitely the kid's parents as well.  And if the child's parent had such little respect for me and my child as to argue that it's okay for their kid to say "F*ck" in front of my kid when I've specifically asked them not to then my child would just have to find a new playmate.  It's more about mutual respect than using "certain words." 

J has his own 3 yr-old version of swearing that he uses all the time.  Everything is "bootie butt" and "caca" or "poop."  It's silly but we really don't have a problem w/that as long as it's at home.  When he's around other kids he knows that not everyone appreciates his "silly words" and not to use them.  He'll still slip up sometimes but overall he's pretty good about it.  So, maybe you could try that w/your DC?  Tell them certain words are okay at home or in certain situations but not in others.  (You know, the way your DH presumably knows that it's okay to swear at home but not in a courtroom in front of a judge). 

leverby

We're not frequent cursers and so its not a huge stretch for us to abstain from it altogether in front of our kid. I don't buy the "it's just a word" defense. A word is not just some sound we make or a collection of letters. We live in a society that places a negative value on certain words, and besides its literal meaning, it carries with it a certain intent.  F*ck, and the like, in another language is just word, but in english in the present day, its to express a certain kind of rage and it'll make a lot of people cringe when they hear it. I'd cringe if I heard a young kid say it, let's face it, its creepy.

AnyaBella

If "it's just a word" then he shouldn't have any problem letting go of it right? Obviously it must hold some importance to him if he's not willing to give it up when you want him to.

Unfortunately we both curse and I'm pretty sure G has already said God damn which I'm not really happy about. We're both working to cut it out but breaking habits like that is hard. I totally get that they're just words, but unfortunately cultural norms kind of matter. I mean I'm not going to freak out if my kid knows a few curse words but I would really rather he didn't.  If he heads into Kindergarten saying "fvck" not only are we going to be judged as parents but he's going to be judged and possibly not be able to be friends with other kids because of "just a word." I get the argument that that's a problem the other parents have, but no amount of arguing is really going to change their minds and I wouldn't want our kid being punished because we couldn't control our language around him.

I would assume he accepts other cultural norms and expects your LO to follow them? Like wearing clothes in public? An argument could easily made that nudity is natural. It's just our bodies and if other people don't like it that's their problem. Unfortunately (for nudists) that's just not how our culture works.

fricksgirl

I have a bad, bad potty mouth and I can tell you from personal experience he needs to STOP.  Now.  Kids are super spongey.  Alex can full on swear, appropriately in the right context, and although when it's just us I do think it's funny, there have been times when it's been awfully, awfully embarrassing.  

I won't make the same mistake for Simon, and we're working on curtailing it all around now.  

But I'm, like, Denise Richards bad.  I really swear a LOT. Which is wierd being a teacher obviously I have a filter, I would NEVER swear at work, I need to turn it on 100% of the time! 

 

KellyMRocks

We haven't curbed our swearing. Road rage and my bad dog get me every time. Grey has mimic'd but he is also good at following rules and the rule is that he is not to swear around other kids or outside of our car. It's not that I encourage or "allow" swearing, but I am not going to punish him for doing something that I do.  If he didn't follow rules as well or started saying things at school I would probably make it an effort. Plus really, and i am sure this is horrible to say, it is kind of funny to hear him say, "damn fvcking dog" under his breath when Brodie knocks over a drink or whatever dog shenanigans he gets into. 

We DO curb our language around other kids. Not doing so would be disrespectful. I wouldn't want Grey to be the kid who is not invited over to Melissa's house

. 

Mrs.BoomBoom

Does DH use profanity in the courtroom in front of a judge?  I'd bet not.  I bet he doesn't use it with the partners in his office either.  There's a context for these words just like all others.  Unfortunately, small children don't know context when they're learning language and so they cannot curtail their use of inappropriate language.  I believe it's our responsibility of parents to therefore limit their exposure to words we don't want them to use in all company. 

Would you have a discussion with your child about sodomy?  Rape?  Murder?  No, because that's not something you want them to know about. 

These are not 'just' words.  These words have a particular connotation and meaning and are not appropriate for all venues.  

scrapmama2201

In the game of semantics, how does a lawyer do his job without words? Written or spoken, words make the world go round. 

I don't curse often and will definitely teach the boys that certain words aren't acceptable. Words that are used with the intent to hurt or put others down are also unacceptable. If and when it happens, I'll channel my inner Atticus Finch.

SweetieP

I used to swear a lot and then Ryan came along and we pretty much have stopped.  I rarely even say "damn" anymore  That said - when I get mad, I've been known to call people a biotch and tell my husband that they can F off.  But I don't do it in front of Ryan.  Now my hubs on the other hand, he can't help himself.  He's better than he used to be but not perfect.   I just tell him (in the moment) not to cuss in front of my kids and then I tell my son that daddy said a bad word and we don't say bad words.

Ryan is at the stage right now where he gets mad and makes up words to vent his frustrations.  He doesn't go to pre-school so he doesn't know things like poopoo head or the typical ones.  He did get a time out yesterday for calling me a doofus brain.  Not sure where that came from. 

I can't sensor everything he hears, but I can talk to him about calling people names and how it hurts feelings.  And that some people really don't like bad words.  Shoot - even his disney movies are full of name-calling (not curse words but things like "you idiot"). 

I grew up like kfishie (I think that's who said it):  no one cussed in my house.  Maybe a damn every now an then.  Even saying "oh my God" was wrong.  We were allowed to say gosh...not God.  And it wasn't a religious thing - it was the "intent" of it I guess.

Anyway - long answer!

NCSW

KellyMRocks:

We haven't curbed our swearing. Road rage and my bad dog get me every time. Grey has mimic'd but he is also good at following rules and the rule is that he is not to swear around other kids or outside of our car. It's not that I encourage or "allow" swearing, but I am not going to punish him for doing something that I do.  If he didn't follow rules as well or started saying things at school I would probably make it an effort. Plus really, and i am sure this is horrible to say, it is kind of funny to hear him say, "damn fvcking dog" under his breath when Brodie knocks over a drink or whatever dog shenanigans he gets into. 

We DO curb our language around other kids. Not doing so would be disrespectful. I wouldn't want Grey to be the kid who is not invited over to Melissa's house

. 

I can get behind this. I can't get behind the idea of letting my child swear around other kids and then trying to change everyone else's mind about children swearing. The truth is, it wouldn't work and your kid would lose friends over it... quickly.

Jason and I try not to swear around Mads. Of course, we're not perfect and we do slip up. She's said a bad word once or twice, but we just make it clear that there are some words/phrases she isn't allowed to say. She grasps that concept pretty easily and is a total rule-follower, so that works for her. I'm not very concerned about other people swearing around her for that reason. 

StefandTodd

Todd has been on me about my cursing since he read in My Pregnancy week by week that the baby can hear us

I know I need to stop.  I am a bit utilizer of the word F*ck.

I genuinely want to get better b/c when my little cousins would use curse words they'd hear from their parents (and also from movies they were allowed to watch probably too young, etc), it totally made me cringe.  It's really not okay with me that they learn and say those things from me or the things I allow them to watch, etc. 

ladipale

Sorry I posted and then left!

Anyway, you all have great points. I think John may be changing his mind about the curse words as he sees our older nephew become more vocal.  I do not plan to let Ellie walk around swearing, and whoever brought up the point of the judge is absolutely correct, he does NOT swear around a judge, think he would get fined for that. I always watch my language and will have to convince John to do the same very soon!

ZoeMay06

We are pretty much on the same page as Kelly. I try not to swear much in front of Kyva but I don't censor myself completely, and DH pretty much doesn't filter at all (though he does make an effort around other people's kids out of respect). We plan to teach our kids that there are certain things we don't say around other people, that some things are only for at home. I'm sure they'll pick up plenty when they get to school anyway and I want them to have a healthy respect for the power of words, so they know how, when and where NOT to use "bad" words too even when we're not around.

IMO, vulgar and discriminatory language doesn't belong in the same category as swearing for emphasis or venting a little frustration, which I find mostly acceptable. Those words are not meant to belittle or overtly offend, and that's the important difference for me. Growing up, I heard a LOT of swearing from my mom and I still remember the first time I ever dropped the f-bomb. I was 11 and it was a formative experience! So being exposed to it doesn't necessarily mean a kid will use it inappropriately.

I<3MYHUSBAND

I think Maya Angelou said it best : ??Words are things, I?m convinced.? You must be careful about the words you use, or the words you allow to be used in your house. Words are things. You must be careful, careful about calling people out of their names, using racial perjoratives and sexual perjoratives and all that ignorance. Don?t do that. Some day we?ll be able to measure the power of words. I think they are things. They get on the walls. They get in your wallpaper. They get in your rugs, in your upholstery, and your clothes, and finally in to you.?" I really do believe that but I will admit I often have a potty mouth I can't seem to curb. I am working on it. Darrian test words out, I try to give little reaction and they go away. His new one, the one I hate the most is "shut up" I think he got it from school. That is one of the worst phrases he could say IMO. I know it can be funny to hear a LO swear, but at some point that is not going to be cute so we nip it in the bud now when we can.DH is the worst and he is trying more too.

tri-reader

KellyMRocks:

We DO curb our language around other kids. Not doing so would be disrespectful. I wouldn't want Grey to be the kid who is not invited over to Melissa's house

. 

LOL

 

For the record, I used to curse a lot.  And funny, when I fall back in with certain friends the cursing comes back as well.  If I'm around the kids I have to make an effort to remember to hold my tongue.

amyfelice

I used to curse a ton.Mother F-er  was out of my mouth every time I stubbed my toe. I was very determined to stop before Elena was born. I did a good job, I still do sometimes very occasionally curse but not much anymore.

I think it's very important that she is respectful and polite. Curses are not considered good manners, people don't want their children to learn those words for a reason, because it's considered base, vulgar and offensive.

I agree that as an adult, around adults, it's one thing but unfortunately it's just a habit that's hard to control if you are using them around adults. Would you want your child going around telling other kids to F off? Or would you want him./her to discuss things rationally? In the words are just words argument I would say, what about saying things are "gay" ? Or "retarded"? Is that offensive? What about the N word or the other racial/ethnic slurs? Are those just words? I mean that is a meaningless argument everyone knows that words are not just words. IN fact, I think words really shape your thought process. When I lived in NY, everyone is sarcastic and negative and it is depressing. When I moved here I learned to be more positive and accepting and I feel so much better. It first came from learning to speak more positively and now my whole thought process is more positive. If you talk the talk, you walk the walk so to speak. 

mrs.moosie

I don't have kids, but Huz and I talk a lot about how we want to parent any future kids. We don't really curse a lot at home. Huz does curse at work, but turns that switch off when he's at home or in a family or friends setting. I curse sometimes alone when I'm driving, and get irritated with people, and sometimes with certain girlfriends when I'm trying to get a point across, or just to be funny. But even with just the two of us, Huz and I really try not to curse. I find it disrespectful and rude.

Honestly, I think cursing a lot and having a straight potty mouth is kind of trashy. And I think it's especially trashy, and just plain terrible when kids are cursing. I was taught growing up that if you are a smart, capable, intelligent, respectful person, you should have other words in your vocabulary besides vulgar words to express yourself. That's a lot different than the rest of my family. It's pretty common in my extended family for parents to laugh and encourage their kids to curse in English and Spanish. Everyone laughs and cheers and asks them to repeat it as if they were saying their ABC's. I think it's sad, and don't find it cute or funny at all when kids say vulgar words.

I don't really buy the "words are just word and hold no power" thing. Words are powerful and expressive and have meanings attached to them whether we like it or not.

 I also don't subscribe to the "I can't punish a kid for doing something I do". There's a difference between being an adult and being a child, and I think it's fine that that double standard is there. I think I should do my best to model appropriate behavior for my kid, but if I slip up, that's not an excuse for my kid to do it too. There are grown up things and kid things, and if that doesn't seem fair, then too bad.

ashleyhuney

This is normally a discussion that I'd avoid, but since it's all about honesty this week I have to say ditto everything that Mrs.Moosie said.  I think that cursing is vulgar.  I don't think that excessive cursing is a mark of an civilized, educated person with good character.  Not saying that a person who curses isn't, but to me they don't come across that way.  I am uncomfortable with it and I don't spend time with people who curse in conversation.  I can remember the age when some of my friends started cursing in elementary school and making the conscience decision not to.  I still don't.

I really don't have a problem with people who curse when they are letting loose, same as it's fine for adults to drink, etc.  But I think that cursing around kids is just as inappropriate as exposing kids to other adult only behavior.  If a kid cursed I probably would really limit the time my kids spent with him/her.  I agree with Michelle, words are things, words are meaningful and while f*ck is "just" a word it is a powerful one and should be used as such.  I don't curse often, and pretty much never when I stub a toe or something.  When I curse it means I feel strongly about something - so when I call my DH an a$$ he knows I'm really angry, lol.  DH doesn't curse either, but then I would never have gotten serious with a guy who did.  I will not listen to anybody who curses at me in anger.