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Natural Birth
Circumcision
We just found out we are having a boy and DH wants to do a circumcision, but when it was brought up a midwife appt she seemed totally against it. Personally I never really gave it a thought and so was just going to go with DH on it, but with MW's strong aversion to it I would like to look more in to it. What are the pro's and cons on this? Any good resources to look at regarding circumcision?
TIA!
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Circumcision
I think that this is an excellent short overview of the benefits/risks: https://tinyurl.com/29pge44. It's from the Canadian Paediatric Society, which is the Canadian equivalent of the AAP.
It is elective cosmetic surgery on a newborn. And it hurts. So it's definitely worth giving some thought to. And I say this as a mom of a circumcised son.
Mommy to DD1 (June 2007), DS (January 2010), DD2 (July 2012), and The Next One (EDD 3/31/2015)
My midwife made the point that one of the risk of the procedure is infection and death. It scared me and if we have a boy i'll probably avoid it. She also mentioned it is not common place anymore. The majority is now NOT circumcised. (not that you should base your decision on what everyone else is doing)
I think the main problem with not getting the circumcision is future infections, but we can teach our LO's how to clean themselves properly. You know, as women, we have more skin folds down there and we can clean just fine. And i'd probably be pretty ticked off if they just cut all that off at birth. I don't know... just a thought. Good luck on the decision making. I know it's hard because you always want to do the right thing.
We circumcise in our house. Both of my boys were.
I left the decision up to my husband and he wanted it done - for many different personal reasons. I trust his decision.
Before we found out we were having a girl, we decided that we would not circumcise a son. For us, the most important reason was the matter of personal autonomy. Body modification should be left up to the person living in the body. We are not convinced that there is a compelling medical reason for the surgery, so we will allow any future son to decide for himself.
I agree w/ pp, though ? don't let your midwife's opinion bother you. This is something you have to decide for your own family.
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This is a great website! I used it as well to give DH more info. Also, if you decide for - find out what type of procedure they use to do it. Our Dr. used the plastibell (with local anesthetic first) and it didn't seem to bother Dominic at all. He didn't even cry during the procedure. It's healing pretty good. It is definitely a decision that you and your DH need to make without being pressured either way from outside sources!! GL with your decision - you can't make a wrong one!!
I agree with this. Personally, we will not circ if we have a boy. The only reason for it that I can remotely justify is the religious one, and as we are not Jewish, we don't have to worry about it.
<a href="http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/putalittlepolkainyourdot/?action=view
Here are some facts many do not realize:
1. Circumsision rate has dropped drastically (from 55% to 33% in the us) from 2003 -2009 : https://www.mdconsult.com/das/news/body/213591086-2/mnfp/0/220621/1.html
2. Over 200 babies die a year from this cosmetic surgery
3. Circumcision based on "cleanliness" assumes that the human body is unclean... the facts are that removing this part is EXACTLY the same as removing the hood over your clitorous as in the 14 - 15th week this is the part that grows to a penis/foreskin. And funny enough, female circumcision is illegal. The intact penis is naturally clean. The common view of the penis or the foreskin as ?dirty? is unscientific and irrational.
4. You are effecting your sons sexual function when you choose to have this surgery: "The prepuce is primary, erogenous tissue necessary for normal sexual function. The complex interaction between the protopathic sensitivity of the corpuscular receptor-deficient glans penis and the corpuscular receptor-rich ridged band of the male prepuce is required for normal copulatory behavior". ? Dr. Christopher Cold, M.D. and Dr. John Taylor, M.D. article here: https://www.drmomma.org/2009/09/functions-of-foreskin-purposes-of.html
5. circumcision HURTS, BAD for a long time and they DO remember this pain. https://www.drmomma.org/2009/11/babies-remember-circumcision-pain.htmland the child cannot decide this for himself... if he wants to be circumcised as an adult, that is his decision...
6. Circumcision hinders breastfeeding. and " the newly circumcised infant expresses noticeably decreased responses to a mother's attempts at engaging their attention." https://www.drmomma.org/2009/11/circumcision-leads-to-breastfeeding.html
Here is PLENTY of reading for you: https://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/DOC/publications.html#leaflets
https://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/are-you-fully-informed.html
https://www.circumcision.orghttps://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org
https://www.circumstitions.com
https://www.cirp.org
https://nurses.cirp.org
https://www.coloradonocirc.org
https://www.circinfosite.com
https://www.drmomma.org
https://www.noharmm.org
https://www.nocirc.org
https://www.mothersagainstcirc.org
https://www.mgmbill.org
https://www.circumcisionandhiv.com
https://www.studentsforgenitalintegrity.org
https://www.intactamerica.org
https://stopthecut.org
https://www.oknocirc.com
https://circumcisiondecisionmaker.com
https://www.asnatureintended.info
https://www.icgi.org
https://www.theridgedband.info
https://www.notjustskin.org
https://www.stopinfantcircumcision.org
https://www.sexasnatureintendedit.com
https://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org
https://www.infocirc.org
https://circumcisionquotes.com
https://www.sicsociety.org
https://www.arclaw.org
https://www.norm.org
https://www.tlctugger.com
https://www.mothering.com
https://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/circumcision.html [Islam]
https://www.quran.org/khatne.htm [Islam]
https://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org [Judaism]
https://www.catholicsagainstcircumcision.org [Catholicism]
"It really annoys me when doctors and MW push their opinions on you. That is a decision that you and your DH will have to make together. Do the research and look at both sides. Then when you have your decision made, stand by it no matter what."
You know... the only reason why circumcision is even done in America... even an option parents think of doing... is because there was a time when DOCTORS PUSHED THEIR OPINIONS on people... and by "push" I don't mean give you their honest heartfelt opinion... I mean ... they took your kid and cut off a substantial piece of their penis without even telling you they were going to do it or giving you the chance to opt out. Lots of people thought it was illegal to not circumcise... So if you have a family member who lacks objectivity on the subject because they think that circumcised is standard and unquestionable social norm... maybe you need to ask yourself WHY and HOW that came to be. Don't assume that it's your family tradition springing from insight and CHOICE... it comes from disempowerment of women and the paternalistic imposition of a different time in medical history when patients and parents had no say so in their care and doctor's orders were never questioned... the age when men waited in halls for babies to be born- and women labored tied in beds alone drugged on scopalomine.
If you think the male sex organ as nature designed it is funny looking of unhygenic... that it needs "scientific correction" ...maybe you need to douche with Lysol to be reminded of the mindset prevailing when circumcision was done as a matter of routine in American hospitals-
and OP, I invite you to visit my blog where you will find several post I wrote on the topic for Genital Integrity Awareness Week.
MH hadn't really given it another thought until we started looking into it either.
In addition to the websites listed above, we found talking to people really helped us most. The thing that most swayed MH toward not circumcising any of our children was talking with a guy in his 30s who had an elective adult circumcision (for cosmetic reasons, not religious). The guy said something to the effect of "I'm really grateful my parents left the decision up to me, but I wish that they'd told me why they didn't do it. And honestly, sex is...well, it's like going from a 50" plasma screen to my grandparents' black and white rabbit ear tv. And that just sucks."
One regret story obviously isn't universal, and having been circumcised all one's life would clearly be different, but for MH, that was enough to say "hey, if our future children want it, they can choose it when they're old enough, but I'm not going to do it."
Mother's Day, 2011
Have you ever taken care of a newborn that has had a circumcision?? These statements are so ridiculous it's not even funny. Neither of my boys had any issues with breastfeeding. In fact, I'm still BFing my 18 month old now. My sons never had a decreased response to my "engaging their attention" - they saw a boob and they opened their mouths. Seriously, where do people come up with this stuff?
Neither of my newborns have had any pain or problems associated with the circ - and my three year old certainly does not remember it. I just asked him. lol
Many of us have husbands with circs and I'm pretty sure they are functioning just fine sexually and have no complaints.
I get that circs aren't for everyone and I understand your not wanting to do it for your sons, but our family had several very valid (in our opinion) reasons for wanting to do it. I wish people could just respect that and mind their own business. Stop spreading false information.
She never insulted you or your decision to mutilate your child. You are the one on the defensive and attacking people. If you are really so worried about respect and minding ones own business you should try it yourself.
What she has posted is not false information it is all backed up by scientific studies.
Why would you have us deprive others of scientifically supported information just because it doesn't support your decision?
I agree with this. I dislike when the main reason for circumcising is "DH has the penis, so it should be his decision."
OP -- do your homework and research the procedure itself. Maybe sit down and watch a video of the procedure with your DH. You'll want to know what goes into it. You may also want to ask at the hospital what goes into their circumcisions since there are several different ways to do the circumcision. Read about the pros and cons. And have a nice heart-to-heart with DH. Remember once it's done, it's done. You can't take it back, so you TOTALLY want to be 100% sure of your decision before you go through with it.
Good luck! I know this is a tough one
FWIW both my husband and myself are reform Jews. He is strongly for circumcision based solely on our religeous beliefs. I am against it because I believe cosmetic surgery should never be forced upon a human being who cannot decide to have it or not have it for themselves.. Not circ'ing actually goes against my religeous beliefs, and if we do not circ our families will probably disown us.
Both MH and myself hope we have all girls so we don't have to have that argument with each other and our families. We are both at a stand still in our decision/opinion.
No, you just did by using the word mutilate. I can tell we can't have an intelligent debate about this topic, because you refuse to show any respect for the other point of view.
I'd be curious to. Recently I read on the bump someplace that someone had or will have it done because "my husband wants his son's penis to look like his"....does anyone find this completely creepy? What adult man is comparing his penis to his son's? To me that's inappropriate...trying not to judge la la la-la.
I have no desire to have a debate with you, but am very curious as to why you chose to circ your sons. You seem like a well educated woman, and I really am just curious.
We had several different reasons.
My father was not circed as a baby and chose to have it done at a later age. It was a very painful procedure that had some complications, and DH and I both agreed that it is safer to have it done as a baby.
The medical benefits were compelling to me - I know some of the research is controversial, but I do believe that it decreases the risk of infection, penile cancer, and other problems with the urinary tract. I take other measures, including vaccinations, to decrease my childrens' risks of developing fatal diseases, so I think circumcision is kind of like that for us.
This reason may not make sense to other people, but it's important to me. I have Crohn's Disease and struggled with my health for a very long time. After I gave up on what Western Medicine had to offer me in terms of treatments, I looked into some diet-based healing plans. Some research showed that Crohn's Disease is very common in people of Jewish ancestry and they think it's because modern diets have strayed so far from the food laws of the Old Testament. Many people with the disease have had changes in their health by following the OT dietary laws, so I tried it and it changed my life. I am not Jewish, but I follow the laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, because I feel they represent a healthy diet. Throughout history the Jews have been a very healthy people - when plagues wiped out entire populations, Jewish communities remained because of their strict dietary guidelines and cleanliness routines.
While I don't see following the Maker's Diet as an issue of salvation, I feel it IS the way that God intended us to eat in order to keep us healthy. In the same way, I don't believe that circumcision is a salvation issue (I am a Christian and am not bound by OT law), but it doesn't mean that it still isn't a good practice. I believe that God wanted the Jews to practice circumcision for many reasons, including to protect them and to keep them clean/healthy. The scientific data today that shows that circ'd men have less chance of infection proves that. Yes, one can be clean and healthy without being circ'd, but circ'ing just makes it easier.
Our final and main reason was because we prayed about it and both felt that God was telling us to do the circ. We go to God with every major decision in our lives, medical or otherwise, and let Him guide us.
I prayed about it and gave DH my reasons for wanting the circ done and he did the same, but ultimately I left the decision up to DH. It wasn't just because "he has the penis", but because that's just the way things go in our marriage. I trusted him to make the best decision for our boys, under God's guidance.
I understand that our reasoning may not make sense to other people and that they have completely different opinions, not just on circ'ing, but on our lifestyle. That is fine. I am glad we live in a time and place where we have the freedom to make these types of decisions. I just wish both sides could show some respect and quit trying to put the other side down for making what is a very personal decision for their own family. Everyone loves their children and just wants what is best for them - having a circ or not having a circ doesn't make you a better or more loving parent.
This is my favorite reasaon by far:) Because you know DH and his father compare penises all the time. In fact I have several male friends and out of curiosity asked them if they even knew if their fathers were circ or not and none of them even knew. This also goes along the line of the locker room excuse.
I was on the fence about circumcision but chose to do it because of research showing reduced risk of STDs later in life in circumcized men.
Here is just one article referencing this research:
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/714553
I've also seen other studies that show that men who are circumcized are less likely to spread STDs to their partners.
It wasn't the only reason but that was the one that won me over. I don't think it's ridiculous to take DH's input into account. I also think this discussion is ignoring the religious factor for many people.
But as to the people who say the babies remember it and hold it against their parents, please, give me a break. Almost every guy I know is circumcized and no one has ever been depressed about it or secretly hating their parents for taking away their foreskin.
As for DS deciding to do it later, there are a lot of decisions we make as parents. We do them in good faith for what we believe is best for our children. Almost anything you can argue is something a kid can decide later in life, vaccinations, religious affiliation, etc. I think it's a cop out to say you're letting them decide because I doubt that logic applies elsewhere in your parenting styles. I think it's fine not to circumcize. I think it's fine to do it. I just hate when people say they'll let their kids decide when they're able because that's unlikely to happen since the pain and recovery of a circumcision only increases with age.
And also I think people get used to whatever they know. If a child is circumcized, that will be his norm and he will be fine with it. If a child is uncircumcized, that will be his norm and he'll be fine with it too.
This may be the first circumcision thread I've read on here where the majority of posts offered a mature, drama-free opinion or explanation of what research was used to make the decision and what the decision was. I've really enjoyed reading some of the posts that explained in greater detail the decision process to or not to circumcise. Thanks to those of you who shared!
It was interesting to see this post upon coming home today, because I spent the weekend at an annual pool party of a close ground of friends about 2 hours away (so many of us stayed all day and spent the night). And being as how everyone had questions for me and my husband about our pregnancy, this is one of the topics that came up.
There were many parents at this party -- some circumcised, some not. But every one of them had chosen to circumcise their own sons. I have several friends who aren't and don't think anything of it - but none of them have children of their own yet. I was truly shocked to hear that those who weren't and had boys had decided to do it to their children. The eldest man there -- who now has a grandson - admitted to he had chosen to have it done to himself in his late 20s/early 30s, and had decided to have it done for his son when he was born b/c he didn't wish for his son to have to go through what he did. He does not regret his decision at all, and while he is not angry or upset with his parents for leaving him the option, he was not at all thankful, stating that he would much have rather had it done when he was an infant and wouldn't remember/felt it. He did not think there was any change in his sex life for the negative after having it done.
As others have said - this is anecdotal. But this was actually my first IRL experience with someone who had opted for the surgery later in life, and I was pretty shocked to hear his story.
I don't know any parents of boys who regret their decision, whether they chose to circumcise or not. So despite how difficult it is to make the decision. I think you're going to feel happy about it afterward. As you can tell, it's a heated topic, but you're in good company regardless of what you choose.
I Agree with you!!
It is still standard to not use any pain relief even though the AAP says that pain relief is available, not using it is dangerous and it should be used. 75% of OB circumcisers (they do the majority of circumcisions in the USA) don't use any pain relief... here is a study of pain relief practices published in the AAP journal:
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/101/6/e5
As for establishing breastfeeding- I have conducted a survey at a conference of lactation professionals and among people who work with mothers and freshly circumcised infants- the fact is- they do see a very different response among the circumcised children who are trying to learn to breastfeed. Their personal observations and survey answers were very consistent. Nurses even coined a term for the behavior ... they call it the "circoma"
I had an interesting experience at the hospital when my daughter was born a few weeks ago- I hadn't written up a birth plan- and we didn't know what the sex of the baby was going to be- so the LC on staff had NO IDEA where I stood on the circumcision question- she came to visit me around midnight and our visit was pretty dreamy in the quiet time getting to know my daughter. because I'm an experienced breastfeeding mom- she didn't need to do much counseling- so we just wound up enjoying our time together and chatting... out of the blue the LC opened up to me about how disturbed she is by the hospital practice of circumcising the babies at two days old and how hard it makes it for the mothers and babies... she is not from the midwest- and said that where she started her career (in California) the circumcision rate is very low and that she did not have to deal with these nursing problems caused by circumcision out there. I gave her a big hug.
I know the bump search feature is pretty crummy- so if you would like to see other discussion here on the subject of circumcision here is how you can do it- go to google and put this in the search bar: site:community.thebump.com (circumcision)
Do that every day... keep searching and reading... look at how many threads come up with circumcision questions and problems... see how many children are going back to get circumcised a second time...
https://community.thebump.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/40883687.aspx
Did you know that more circumcised boys will be circumcised a second time than intact boys will ever need a first circumcision to fix a problem with their foreskin? That circumcision actually causes more problems than it avoids? How can you call this prevention of anything? Do surgery to avoid surgery?
And then there is the question of someone else's sexual function. Who has the right to change the way someone's body is in such a permanent and intimate way?
Honestly, when it came down to it... DH wanted to do it. I didn't. I threw all my research at him. He didn't care. Ultimately, I decided that as the man, he got to make 51% of this decision. (Just like as the woman, I got to make 51% of the decision to do homebirth.) So, circumcision it was.
One thing I did do was research the different options for circumcision so that we could choose the best way possible for DS. In the end, we went to a mohel in our area who does circumcisions for non-Jews. The whole procedure took less than 5 minutes, and DS barely made a peep during it. He was in some pain afterwards, but within a few hours, he was acting pretty much normal.
I still call it my worst experience as a parent, seeing my child in pain, knowing that I caused it, and knowing that it was completely unnecessary. But ultimately, I don't regret it. If we have another son, I'll advocate for not circumcising again, but if DH insists again, I'll do it the same way.
Mommy to DD1 (June 2007), DS (January 2010), DD2 (July 2012), and The Next One (EDD 3/31/2015)
That's not an argument against circumcision, just an argument against using a circumciser who doesn't use pain relief.
Again, that's not an argument against circumcision, just an argument against circumcising when breastfeeding is not well-established. DS was 6 weeks old when he was circumcised; he had already learned to breastfeed. The mohel that we used says that circumcision remains uncomplicated up till 3 months of age, for any parents who wish to wait even longer.
This is addressed by the link that I gave in my first post: https://tinyurl.com/29pge44. The numbers are exactly the same. 10 in 1000 circ'd boys will need a second circ later in life to address problems. 10 in 1000 uncirc'd boys will need a circ later in life to address problems.
*shrug* As parents, there are lots of things we do to our kids that we wouldn't do to just anyone... maybe DS will decide later in life that he would have preferred to be formula fed? I don't know. I just do my best as a mom, every day, and hope he turns out OK.
I agree wholeheartedly with that. Choosing not to do a neonatal circ is just as much a choice for the child as choosing to do it. Circs later in life are a whole different ballgame. It's like saying, "Oh, I'm not going to breastfeed. Who am I to put my nipple in my son's mouth? If he wants breastmilk later in life, he can choose to drink it himself."
Mommy to DD1 (June 2007), DS (January 2010), DD2 (July 2012), and The Next One (EDD 3/31/2015)
Though I hate it when someone tries to push their opinions on me, I do understand that your MW was so forceful so that you'd see the seriousness of this decision. Many people take for granted that this is needed, or that they like the apperance more, or whatever their reasoning is. (DH and I are in an all-out war over this.) She is coming from a good place. She wants you to realize what you're doing and that's why she reacted so vehemently when you mentioned it.
My MW has two boys: one who is and one who isn't. She regrets very much what she did to her oldest child and wishes she could take back that "mutilation" (her words) that she'd done to her son. My mom's BFF chose to with her first two, but not her second two. She wishes every day that they'd never been circumsized. They remove a 3in by 5in piece of skin from your son's penis and sell that skin to cosmetic companies. That's removing an index-sized piece of skin from your baby.
There is a new procedure that is fastly becoming all the rage. It's a long and uncomfortable process of stretching out the skin to give a man his foreskin back. Grown men are electing to do this for various reasons.
Think about this: they lose sensitivity (who wants sex to be less enjoyable?), they can have an abundance of complications with a needless surgery, they are more likely to have problems with the circumsision than with the foreskin, removing that foreskin is taking away inches from his penis, leaving him with a smaller one. What guy wants a smaller penis?!?
I read about half way down and had to stop. You've asked about circ, and obviously, it's a really loaded/heated subject. I would look into the resources listed above,as most of them are very sound. Admittedly, I get heated about the subject too, and will do my best not to get heated
Here is how we came to our decision.
I didn't think about circ until I knew we were having a boy with #2. With #1 we didn't find out what we were having ahead of time and I'm very fortunate we had a girl first.
My dh was against leaving ds intact at first, but he couldn't come up with a better reason than the 'locker room' argument. His immediate 'we WILL circumcise' sent me into research mode and I read everything I could about the subject in order to change his mind. At first, I just read an article that described the procedure and my mind was made up. I can barely get through a circ video, and challenged dh to do the same (he hasn't made it through a single one yet..). At the end of the day, I couldn't find a 'good' reason to do it. I left out a couple of books (in the bathroom no less) on the subject with bookmarks that addressed his specific concerns so that he could read and then talked to him about it at a later date.
Now, it's a non-issue. Ds is just fine, dh is just fine too and if we have any other boys, they will be left intact as well. Best of luck in your research and feel free to pm me if you have any questions on approaching your dh or about intact care of your son.
Something else I forgot to mention in my earlier post about reasons - while it wasn't part of our initial decision-making process, we learned this after the fact and it confirmed my decision.
We have a family friend who worked as a nurse's aide in a nursing home while putting herself through nursing school. She said she saw countless old men who had infections because they were not circumcised. She told me a really gruesome story about one patient whose infection was so bad that it swelled and began cutting off circulation to his penis. The problems she saw made her decide to circ her future sons.
(God bless her for having to take care of old men in that way. I shudder at the thought.)
Anyways, I guess before she told that story I never thought about what happens to old men once they are unable to take care of themselves. While it's easy to say a lot of the problems can be prevented through good hygiene while a man is younger, it's just not as simple once they are unable to do it for themselves.
Flyer- to avoid confusion in the quote department- I'll just toss out some replies to some of your comments:
That's not an argument against circumcision, just an argument against using a circumciser who doesn't use pain relief.
Actually it's a testament to the widespread disregard for humanity, common decency, compassion, medical ethics and modern standards of surgical need, consent and acceptable procedure that is the reality of the mindset of the professional child genital cutter.
It's also testament to the state of parental understanding of the procedure they are being offered- that so MANY parents will allow their child to undergo a surgery requiring genital flesh of their newborn to be crushed to a point of hemeostasis without any anesthetic.
So yes, of course it suggests that an informed parent should take the time to shop around and find the most ethical, experienced and humanitarian genital mutilator they can hire... but of course if a parent knew that much- they probably would not be in the market for a child genital cutter in the first place.
"Again, that's not an argument against circumcision, just an argument against circumcising when breastfeeding is not well-established."
The fundamental argument against circumcision (the human rights of genital integrity/autonomy) does not rely on breastfeeding to be harmed in order to be valid... but the fact that circumcision in the first or second day of life is common and breastfeeding is often harmed does bear mentioning. It is true that delaying the circumcision until after breastfeeding is established may be a good way to avoid those specific problems... it may also be a way to come to terms with your responsibility as your child's protector and advocate and identify with your child deeper as a perfectly formed human being with rights to his own body that take precedent over any other person's wishes to impose their mutilated ideals on his most sensitive body part. By all means... wait.
The numbers are exactly the same. 10 in 1000 circ'd boys will need a second circ later in life to address problems. 10 in 1000 uncirc'd boys will need a circ later in life to address problems.
Math- FAIL.... 1010 circumcisions vs. 10 ... not the same.
*shrug* As parents, there are lots of things we do to our kids that we wouldn't do to just anyone...
I know that I am not a perfect person, and I'm not a perfect parent.... but just the idea of taking a crushing clamp and a knife to my kid's crotch- makes me feel very dirty and bad inside... like the very core of my being is violated... tainted... to even THINK of doing something like that to my BABY.
I agree wholeheartedly with that. Choosing not to do a neonatal circ is just as much a choice for the child as choosing to do it.
That is very perverse logic... the human body is the default. Not modifying the human body is not a decision that is imposed on a person, it's their natural design as laid out in the coding of their DNA. If they don't like it- they will have to take it up with the man upstairs who made them so!! And no- I don't think that kids should get the say so in getting circumcised... not until they are sexually active responsible adults who understand the purpose of the anatomy and have the emotional maturity to make such a important decision... and pay for it. I have no obligation to predict and prescribe bizarre adult sexual body modifications on my children... not piercings, tattoos, implants or genital mods. If circumcision had so much value- it certainly should be worth it for an adult man to invest a few days of well medicated pain to get the cut penis he wants. if an adult woman can choose a boob job... or labiaplasty... (or give birth to a baby)... why should I assume that a man can't handle responsibility for his own sexual body mods?
I wanted to clarify something Papa Bear wrote... about the 3x5 index card- that is the size of an ADULT foreskin unfolded... not the size of what's cut from an infant which is much smaller due to the relative size of the anatomy... which makes the guesswork involved in infant circumcision even more of a **mindf$ck** how the heck do they know what is "extra" and what is essential to cover the adult erection of the man that one day old baby will become?
Here is an ADULT GRAPHIC slideshow depicting the growing erection of an intact man and the way his foreskin unfolds to cover his erection... first... the veins... OK enough said- that's some pretty integrated sexual anatomy not GARBAGE... second... where again is the "extra" ??
NSFW -- adult content---
https://secretpenis.com/erection.swf