IVF and religion vent...long

Mrs.Johnson

Hello, I normally post on the Adoption board but wanted to get some opinions about IVF and religion from ladies currently going through it.  DH and I are leaning towards IVF next summer.  I am Roman Catholic, which strictly prohibits IVF.  DH is not religious.  Lately, I have not gone to church and feel that God's silence in my fertility struggles is beyond frustrating.  I don't pray anymore and basically feel quite lost and empty. 

I have always considered myself more spiritual than religious anyway.  But here's the thing...I want to do the IVF because I want to have a baby.  The church teaches that just because we want to have a baby doesn't mean we are entitled to it or that it is in God's plan.  I'm not even sure there is a plan, since we have free will anyway.  I am not so arrogant to presume to know the will of God anyway.  So, in a way I agree with the church, some people cannot have children and maybe we are not entitled to children.  What I have a problem with is all the unwed mothers, the people who have abortions and basically anyone who disrespects life.  If my DH and I go through with the IVF and receive a miracle by having a healthy baby, I believe that baby is wanted by God or the universe just as much or more than those accidentally conceived by others the "natural" way.  I absolutely don't feel that we are "playing God" as the church believes, because if God doesn't want us to conceive a child, then the embryo won't stick and grow into a child.  I have stage I endometriosis and feel that the IVF gives us a better chance at becoming parents but does not guarantee us a baby.

Thanks for reading...anyone have any thoughts on this?  Not trying to create controversy, just looking for intelligent opinions on the subject. 

ams8099

I am not religious at all. I do not believe that God wills anything to happen or to not happen. 

If he did, and ART was so wrong, why would he allow the science to happen?

I just don't believe that God would pick and chose who had babies and who did. Who got cancer and who didn't.

As sucky as it is, it is just what it is.  

kthappy76

I can't answer your questions, but I do know that many many Catholics do IVF and have their babies baptized in the Church and noone is the wiser.  IMHO it's not anyone's business how your children are conceived.  GL to you.

Mrs.Johnson

ams8099 (sorry I don't know your name)

I agree with you.  I think sucky things happen in life and good things happen.  We have to make the best of everything the best way we know how.  Who really knows what's after this life?  No one has been there and back to tell us. 

I also think that the church's rules and doctrine are based on what men have written about God, since God did not write the Bible, Koran, etc. himself we are left to other people's interpretations.  It is really hard for me to say I am Catholic or any religion for that matter, since I don't fully agree with or completely understand any one religion's system of beliefs 100%. 

I hate how much IF has made me question EVERYTHING in my life, myself, my marriage, my religion, etc.  I hope I come out of this a stronger person, but only time will tell.

amethystgrrl

I most certainly have no answers, but I want to offer up my support for you and your situation. "Natural" or via ART, your child will be loved and treasured in a way that will leave no doubt as to whether you and DH "deserved" a child. I wish you the best, no matter what you choose.

kit.kat343

My SIL, who is an amazing, loving and devoted mother, has struggled with infertility.  I would never believe that it is in God's plan for her to not have children.  I cannot tell you what you should do, and can only wish you and your husband the best as you make the right decision for yourself.

chuckansarah

We are not Catholic, but we struggled with this before we did IVF. We believe life is precious and were concerned with the embies that we would be creating and wanted to make sure all that were viable would be given a chance at life. We talked to our dr. about it and he assured us we would be able to do that.

As far as God's will, this is another conversation I have had over and over and over again. One of my dear friends has also struggled with infertility and pointed out at one point that if you read the Bible, there isn't one woman in the Bible who desired a baby and wasn't given one at some point. Therefore we have to believe that it is God's will for us to have a child if we desire it, and that he put these people (the drs) into our life to make that a possibility. Good luck with the decision, it is definitely a tough one!

Edwina.McDunnough

Mrs.Johnson:

The church's rules and doctrine are based on what men have written about God, since God did not write the Bible, Koran, etc. himself we are left to other people's interpretations.

This. I'm not Catholic but my DH is and he does not agree with the Church on IVF. Both the RC priest who married us and our local RC priest have many opinions that differ from that of the Chuch. Right and wrong are not black and white even for them.

ETA : It's not just the non-sex method, it's the issue of destroying embryos as well.

chilibean03

DH and I are both catholic and will start our first IVF cycle this month.  We don't feel like it is playing God.  If we have extra embryos at the end of this process, we plan on giving them to another couple who is struggling with infertility.   There is another option that I believe is called compassionate transfer.  The extra embryos are transfered at a time in your cycle when they won't stick.

yodasmistress

I don't see how the church can be against IVF but not all the other amazing things medicine does for us.  Seems kinda picky-choosy and irrational to me.

Dragonfly1226

I hope it's okay if I reply. I am Roman Catholic too.

I really think that if God didn't want us to conceive using ART we wouldn't have the technology. I don't agree that people suffering from IF just weren't meant to have children b/c it's God's will. By that logic, if you get sick with cancer you shouldn't fight it because it's God's will. But the church has nothing wrong with going to extremes with treating cancer. I don't see why using ART to treat IF is any different.

There are many priests who would also support your decision to pursue ART. I know that many ladies on this board who have had similar concerns have talked to their priests and were surprised by the support they received.

Wishing you all the best with your IVF cycle hon  

dicer2

I am Byz. Catholic and have struggled with several decisions in my life.  My mom always tells me the same thing - If you feel good about your choice and it's coming from a place of love, then God will be okay with it.  She had a conversation with her priest about having her tubes tied after having 3 kids.  They knew they couldn't afford to get pregnant again.  This is the advice that the priest gave her and she was then confident to go ahead with her decision.

scooterq

Dragonfly1226:

I hope it's okay if I reply. I am Roman Catholic too.

I really think that if God didn't want us to conceive using ART we wouldn't have the technology. I don't agree that people suffering from IF just weren't meant to have children b/c it's God's will. By that logic, if you get sick with cancer you shouldn't fight it because it's God's will. But the church has nothing wrong with going to extremes with treating cancer. I don't see why using ART to treat IF is any different.

There are many priests who would also support your decision to pursue ART. I know that many ladies on this board who have had similar concerns have talked to their priests and were surprised by the support they received.

Wishing you all the best with your IVF cycle hon  

THIS!  I'm catholic too and the concerns that the church has with IVF has crossed my mind too, but in my heart of hearts their stance on IVF just doesn't feel "right" to me, because of the reasons bolded above!

SweetyPy17

Good morning! I grew up Roman Catholic too.  I grew up going to to church every Sunday, CCD on Wednesday and confessions on Monday.  I was baptized in this BEAUTIFUL civil war church in MD.  I always saw myself being married and baptizing my children in this church also.  6 years ago, my DH's ex-wife left him.  She just upped and walked out.  Because she left, my dreams of getting married in that church went with her.  We refused to pay the church $3000 to annul the marriage, and we weren't sure she would go through with it anyway. 

With that being said, I get so upset that a church that believes in family and family values won't change their views that are based on ancient times, unless you give them money.  I want to raise my children in a church that allows me to be open and honest in how I conceived them.  I don't want them to believe it was wrong.  I believe that God wants the best for all of his children, no matter what.

Sorry so long....just a close and personal issue.

TryingforBaby1

So, this conversation has been a big one in my house. My husband and I are both Catholic. I think we have come to terms with the fact that we disagree with the church on this one. The church says that ART treatments take the love out of procreation. I could not disagree more. DH and I have found a deeper love because of our struggles.The other issue is what to do with any unused embryos.  I think each person has to deal with any unused embryos on their own. We have elected to donate them to another infertile couple if we do not use them all. But, we have a strong desire to transfer all of them (depending on how many there are.)

I also have found myself distancing from the church. DH (who almost was a priest) has had some significant struggles with religion in the last year.  We have missed a few Sundays this summer and regularly have long conversations questioning our faith. I know that in the future, we will definitely find our way back to the church. There are so many things that I do have faith in. However, for now, we are doing what is best for us and I do not feel wrong about it.

Good luck in your decisions!

Mrs.Johnson

Thanks for all of the responses ladies!  I think it is truely a big decision without adding religion into the mix.  My husband and I have nothing but love and respect for each other, so there is more love going into this rather than less.  After failed adoptions, failed IUIs and years of waiting to become parents, we are doing the right thing by giving ourselves the best chance we can.  I do believe that God knows that and loves every child that is ever conceived.  Think about those women who are raped.  Those children weren't conceived by love, but God loves them.  Thanks for the thoughtful responses and advice.  I know we are making the right decision for our family.

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chuckansarah:

We are not Catholic, but we struggled with this before we did IVF. We believe life is precious and were concerned with the embies that we would be creating and wanted to make sure all that were viable would be given a chance at life. We talked to our dr. about it and he assured us we would be able to do that.

As far as God's will, this is another conversation I have had over and over and over again. One of my dear friends has also struggled with infertility and pointed out at one point that if you read the Bible, there isn't one woman in the Bible who desired a baby and wasn't given one at some point. Therefore we have to believe that it is God's will for us to have a child if we desire it, and that he put these people (the drs) into our life to make that a possibility. Good luck with the decision, it is definitely a tough one!

I just wanted to say that this mostly, but not entirely true -- Michal (wife of King David and daughter of King Saul) desired a child and never bore one.  2 Samuel 6:23 says that she was childless until the day she died.

To the OP (from someone else who has struggled with religion and technology), I believe that God gave us wonderfully intelligent men and women who have used their God-given talents and gifts to develop the technology we have today.  What you do with your body is between you and God and as long as you two are okay with it, go for it!  I don't believe that He gave us brains to develop technology only to waste it -- do something good with it, dedicate your child to Him, and see the rewards of your faithfulness.

lavitabella17

I am a Christian and it makes me sad to think that Roman Cathlic church disagrees with IVF. In the end, our beliefs are the same, that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. The bible says God doesn't give us more than we can handle. I think that everything happens for a reason, our paths are not all the same, but we can learn and grow and help others. I feel that God is going to bless me with a baby one way or another (naturally, IVF, adoption), the bible says he knows the desires of our hearts. We will have our miracle baby, and if modern science helps us along the way, I'm thankful.

I really hope you both listen to the desires of your hearts and not the legalistic message that some people try to guilt you into believing.

Good Luck!

ColindaP

yodasmistress:

I don't see how the church can be against IVF but not all the other amazing things medicine does for us.  Seems kinda picky-choosy and irrational to me.

This. So very, very much this. Why is IF treatment playing God, but cancer treatment is not? Insulin therapy for diabetics is not? Bypass surgery is not?

I am not religious. DH's mom's side of the family is very religious, but we told them we were doing IVF anyway, thinking "Hello, it's the twentyfreaking-first century..." Their reaction was, well, right-wing religious talking points, to be frank. Because they don't actually know anything about it besides the propaganda. So we tried to phrase it in a way that would be both understandable and mesh with their view of the world. Our problem is not getting pregnant, it is staying pregnant (I've had 4 m/c's) So we pointed out to them that it is our doctor's medical opinion that continuing to try naturally will result in many, many more embryos that are conceived, develop for a few weeks, and then die and IVF is our best shot at *saving* those embryos and having one actually make it to term.

MegW21

I'm a Protestant, so coming from basically the same camp religion-wise. In many ways IF has tested my faith. I get what you're saying about how upsetting it is to see people have babies who aren't fit to be parents. I see that too and it bugs me. But like you said, our free will determines a lot of what we do with our lives--people who shouldn't can have babies, and we can choose to do IF treatments to have a baby. I think God is way more interested in the process we go thru--becoming more like Him, more loving, more patient, more trusting--than He is in the outcome. And I do believe He is also in charge of the outcome of all the circumstances in our lives. He's just always planning for our best--which is not necessarily always what seems like the best thing to us.

 Hope that helps--this is a big issue to struggle thru and I can tell you're having a hard time. I'm sorry

PurplePanda83

I am not catholic but I am a Christian. God commanded us to go forth and multiply. I believe there is a plan, but I often get caught up in the misery of infertility and it is hard to wait on that plan.

I believe that the advancements in medicine and science are inspired by God. As you said, if for some reason God has other timing with you the IVF may not work. You aren't gaurenteeing results or dishonoring God by trying watever you can to fufill His first commandment to His people.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss infertility and religion more. God Bless!

Mrs.AmandaMqn

H and I are cradle Catholics and although as we grew up we began to question our Church a lot, it wasn't until IF entered our lives that we really began to rethink it all. I used to get very upset hearing about the Church's stance on IVF. Then I decided that no one could or should be able to tell me how to create my family.

I think the Catholic Church has much bigger issues to deal with then our IF treatments. I also think that at the core of religion all that really matters is love and we certainly won't love our child less because he or she was conceived via IVF and I refuse to belong to a Church that believes other wise. I also don't think God will love our child differently.

 Good luck with everything!