Weekly Randoms w/o 2/7

optimistgardener

optimistgardener

guys i am trying to fill in @bows22 shoes here with the grad check-in thread but i dunno what i'm doing so if i messed it up someone please tell me.

optimistgardener

also @keikilove i have learned about gifs and now you are all dooooomed

acleverusername

@optimistgardener if you've mastered gifs, do you pronounce it as "G-I-F" (hard g, like garage) or "J-EE-F"? Cause the mark of a true gif master is to be able to defend their choice of pronunciation and then shame anyone who doesn't agree. 

acleverusername

Hey so I've been thinking lately – and @abjm0325's question this morning kind of confirms it – that maybe we can change the name of the weekly IF thread to be "IF Questions, Testing, and Treatment"? I think that might make it a bit more welcoming for ppl to do one-of question posts before jumping in with treatment. Otherwise, I feel like now the bar to post in that thread is having an OBGYN/RE appointment to start the full IF workup.

fantasyflyte

@acleverusername I like that idea!

optimistgardener

@acleverusername oh no!! you've caught me out. I cannot justify my choice (which is gif like garage) at all!
But more importantly, re: the name of the thread, I'm a vote in favor of a more inclusive name. I was also just thinking this morning with @caseys02's post, where she noted that she was *lurking*, and with you and your current situ with rest cycles in prep for a FET, that even if folks are not actively engaged in testing/treatment on a given cycle, if a person has a history of infertility or suspects that they may qualify for an IF-related diagnosis or if they've recently done an IF thread check-in that they should feel free to pop on in without having to qualify themselves as lurkers.

anniemarie887

@acleverusername i literally feel like my mind was read by @abjm0325 , i was laying in bed last night reading the IF thread and pondering about jumping in with some questions and thoughts... but wasn't sure if that's where i go... just want to say thanks for you all and @optimistgardener comments right now and the openness and clarity around it.

caseys02

@optimistgardener I'm unsure where to state if I'm lurking or not. I figured until I start with actual treatments I would just post in the tww or wto.  I just like to try to see how everyone's doing though and if I can offer input anywhere that may or may not be helpful.    

I also say a hard G, so its like Jif even though ex said I'm wrong. 

Also, because idk where else to say this my af can suck it this month. Came for a day, left, giving me massive headaches and now I think she's back. 

optimistgardener

gonna put on my hopeful single mom hat here for a sec and also say that considering my circumstances (no partner, no previous BFP) there are obvious places on this forum where I do not fit (TFAS, TTCAL), and usually  the dailies are not really the right fit, either, since organizing a source of sperm on my "off" cycles is not as straightforward as it is for most of the rest of you. This is of course totally fine for me! I don't expect to or want to fit everywhere. But I do think that for potential future members of the community who might be, like me, single or queer and thus reliant on science and donor sperm to get the deed done, that IF in some ways feels like the most appropriate category even in the absence of a diagnosis, since such a person would potentially be dealing with a lot of the same kinds of interventions (IUI, medications, etc.), that an IF patient would. I know that back in my days as a lurker and even before I started thinking of myself as someone with IF, I always lurked the infertility boards since they were the most functionally relevant to my circumstances. And yes, I know there are boards out there specifically aimed at LGBTQIA+ peoples and also at single moms. But they are often, perhaps surprisingly, not as useful when it comes to solid, translatable advice and info.

fantasyflyte

@optimistgardener what about maybe calling it "IF/ART Questions, Testing, and Treatment"? Since, as you mentioned, there may be people pursuing assisted reproductive technology for infertility AND non-infertility-specific reasons?

Paturkey

Hi folks. Just stopping in here to say 'hello' since AF is here and I'm cranky and I don't want to post in dailies because I don't want to see that this is my seventh cycle. 

I like the IF thread name change, that sounds inclusive. I also lurk that thread but feel weird 'liking' stuff bc I feel like a creepy lurker but I really should just not over-analyze it so much. I'm rooting for everybody!!

Also, it is Gif, like garage. "Gary likes a Gif". Obviously.

optimistgardener

@fantasyflyte i was just thinking about ways to incorporate ART into the title as a means of reaching out to more people.

@Paturkey we love our lurkers!

kiki047

@fantasyflyte I like the idea of somehow including ART in there too, but I'm a child and I read "IF/ART" as "I FART" and it makes me chuckle every time. 

keikilove

Scrolling for a second and definitely read that as “I FART” 😂 @kiki047 I can always count on you to join me in these things.😄

optimistgardener

ART/IF? IF & ART?

fantasyflyte

@kiki047 I'm so glad it wasn't just me, I thought the same thing as soon as I posted it!

I think ART/IF would be good.

acleverusername

We should definitely call it I FART.

walkawaynee

I agree with including ART and questions in the title! 

I am also part of the camp that read it as I FART... and giggled. 

walkawaynee

Also... We got a puppy last week and as such my life has not been my own. 

fantasyflyte

I mean, I can definitely see I FART being a nice chuckle in a stressful process too.

anniemarie887

@optimistgardener i totally get what you mean about not all areas being applicable, and quite frankly i'm glad loads of you are not in the ttcal category and hope you never are! i just know for me personally i don't want to go posting in the IF threads and come across as insensitive, there was a convo with @acleverusername back over the summer about an old thread that i am prob going to butcher the details b/c i'm mobile bumping and can't find it - but it was someone who i think was frustrated after like 4 mos and with secondary infertility and then it became this convo about all of these metrics to qualify for where you post and should there be diff threads. anywho, i just don't want to hurt anyone's feelings by treading where i'm not sure if i should, many of you have been at this IF stuff significantly longer than i have and i want to be cognizant of everyone's emotions. 

acleverusername

@anniemarie887 ah yes, the infamous TTC 6mo+ thread suggestion. Lol. 

optimistgardener

@anniemarie887 i really appreciate your sensitivity to not being "that person" who wanders on to the IF thread all like "woe is meee" because they haven't gotten pregnant after a few months, but honestly most of the folks on the board at this point have had their struggles and i would welcome anyone who approaches the conversation conscientiously. i am afraid i probably wasn't around for the convo you reference but i can definitely imagine how past iterations of this board had to maintain stricter boundaries around thread communities.

So, to return to the q of how to rename the thread, then... apart from "I FART/EVERYBODY FARTS!," I am hearing a consensus forming around "ART/IF Questions, Testing, and Treatment"?

abjm0325

I'm personally just reading all these iterations as FART! Said like a certain F expletive because if others are like me that's how we feel when realizing what a crapshoot TTC is. 

acleverusername

Putting on my "big girl hat" for a sec... +1 to "ART/IF Questions, Testing, and Treatment." Let do this next week!

fantasyflyte

We should also discuss what the first post in that thread should say, since it's IF-geared right now.

anniemarie887

@optimistgardener +1 for the new name! And big weird internet hug for always being so thoughtful yourself. 

optimistgardener

ok to throw a wrench in the mix, the CDC does not classify IUIs as ART. Apparently ART is anything that deals with the handling of eggs/embryos, but not sperm. So, ART doesn't actually serve as well as I'd hoped as a workaround for folks using IF methods even if they haven't got an IF diagnosis.

acleverusername

@optimistgardener Hrm... good point. I was about to debate whether we need to hold the same standard as CDC, but even ASRM is pretty specific on this. What about instead something like: 

Fertility Treatment: Questions, Testing, and Procedures

acleverusername

Hrm, although, according to Dr Turek (a renowned reproductive urologist, FYI), 

The National Library of Medicine defines assisted reproductive techniques as any “clinical and laboratory techniques used to enhance fertility in humans and animals.” By this definition, intrauterine insemination (IUI), ovulation induction (OI), in vitro fertilization (IVF) and other forms of egg or sperm manipulation are considered ART.

So maybe we just go with ART? 

optimistgardener

oh good. I love me a good ol' quandary over terminology. I'm fine with either the old new option or Clever's ARTless alternative.

acleverusername

Okay, need help. For those of you who've tried keto diet (@kiki047 and I can't remember who else toyed with it mid-2021), do the keto strips measure ketones? Cause I just got some bloodwork back, and my ketones are abnormal. So I'm wondering if it's because I'm in a state of ketosis. I haven't been eating too many carbs, but certainly some carbs. How few carbs (in grams) do you need to be eating in order to enter ketosis? 

anniemarie887

Sorry went MIA for a day… happy with either name and just love the thoughtfulness of y’all. 

kiki047

@acleverusername yes, those strips will measure ketones in your urine. It's not the most reliable method but is much more approachable for the average user that doesn't need a blood ketone meter. The strips I got will change colour based on the level of ketones in your urine. I think the general rule of thumb is that you need to consume less than 5% of your daily consumption in carbs, which is typically no more than 40-50g/day. Like a single small apple has 15g of carbs alone. Too much protein can also kick you out of ketosis. Like 65-70% of your diet needs to consist of fat, 10-30% from protein and 0-5% from carbs. Might be worth getting that checked out, there are other reasons why ketones can be out of whack. Hopefully it's nothing serious! 

I have some thoughts on the renaming of the IF thread that I'm still trying to formulate in my head, but my general feeling is that I would agree that we could/should change the first post/thread description to make it more inclusive but that needing to change the title feels arbitrary and that ART is already encompassed by the general "IF" banner and IMO doesn't need to be spelled out just to feel more welcoming. Maybe, as a group, we (and I say "we" because I include myself in that category) need to make more of an effort to be more inclusive and actually venture outside of the IF thread once in a while to be more engaged elsewhere. The Chart Stalk/Questions thread is extremely under-utilized, and I know there's a lot of musing going on in the dailies that I personally wouldn't see because I don't frequent those threads, but could be situations where "our" insights might be helpful. Back when I first joined here, there was very much the same kind of separation between the threads, but the IF-ers did still lurk beyond the borders of the IF thread so as to spread their collective knowledge. I appreciate that the IF thread is seen as this kind of sacred ground that feels intimidating to others, but I also recognize the role I've played in perpetuating that impression that makes people feel like they need to somehow qualify for membership into that thread. 

My inclination is that if the title of the thread needs to change, add the word Questions in there so it would read "IF Testing/Treatment/Questions".

To the point about the TTC 6+ months discussion where there was a subgroup who felt like they needed their own tier of TTC-ness that was more than the newbies but weren't quite IF yet, if I'm not mistaken they all ultimately went on to get KU shortly thereafter so had we given in to their tantrum that thread would've started and ended with them. 

abjm0325

I do sometimes think of you lovely ladies in the IF thread as our TTC Bump Goddesses and am therefore hesitant to reach out for fear of sounding stupid or accidentally offending someone. I realize that is totally on me though and certainly not because you all aren't kind and supportive! I like the idea of including the "questions" option as an opportunity to join the thread at a point of need. I am woefully uniformed to comment on the inclusion or exclusion of ART in the title name. 

keikilove

Chiming in re: the renaming of the IF thread as well. Apologies if I sound blunt. The addition of “Questions” tacked onto the end of the title seems fine to me. But, I actually don’t see the need to change it at all. The thread’s been here for many years before us and will go on for years after us. That being said, it may be most helpful to change the wording within the welcome paragraph, as those words haven’t been updated in the years since I’ve been here and things have…ahem…”softened up” on this entire board since the time when all the thread descriptions were written with their very explicit rules. We could adjust the wording in the welcome so that it sounds more inclusive and less intimidating. 

I completely agree with @Kiki047 that we all could/should utilize the Questions/Chart Stalk thread more often. As far as the Dailies, I used to participate very frequently and post the weekend Dailies religiously. But I’ve been here more than 3 years now, have no clue what cycle I’m on, and the zeal for interacting with constantly revolving new members has totally fizzled for me. The truth is that the IF ladies have always been the ones to keep this board alive as those without issues conceiving are only here for 1, 2, 6 months, etc, and then move on. I didn’t understand that dynamic when I first joined TTGP, and was definitely nervous to join into the IF thread when it became clear that I was having issues TTC. I asked questions before being pointed toward the IF thread by others who knew how it worked. Being here as long as some of us have, I feel that we are simply carrying the torch of so many brave warrior women who came before us. The name of the IF thread included. 

anniemarie887

Ok, confession: I thought the questions part of chart stalk was questions specific to charting. Not in general. Apparently I need to work on my reading skills. 

optimistgardener

@anniemarie887 same! i think at some point i did realize the Q/chart stalk thread was open for more general questions, but i've always mentally categorized it as the thread where people ask about their charts. maybe that title could do with a little minor rephrasing?

@keikilove and @kiki047 thanks both of your for offering your wisdom and perspective on this. I feel like if folks feel strongly that we not change the title, then we should respect that. But I remain in favor of adding a "questions" element to the title if no one disagrees. I do want people who have begun that mental leap of shifting into IF mode but who haven't yet started the actual process of preliminary testing yet to feel ok about asking us questions. Like keiki notes, it's a scary leap to figure out how to make space in your brain for the IF designation. I also agree with keiki about giving the thread blurb a bit of a working over to freshen up the language.

anniemarie887

So what I think checks the boxes is “IF Weekly Testing, Treatment & Questions week of ____”

and then some tweaking to the opening paragraph to include questions in there too?

I feel like I just went all corporate “so what I’m hearing you say is….” But I do think it’s a good comvo and it’s valid that the majority feels good about it. 

kiki047

anniemarie887 said:

I feel like I just went all corporate “so what I’m hearing you say is….” 

hahaha big corporate vibes here, but good discussion overall!

Like @keikilove said, we've been here an awfully long time (coming up 4 years for me) so we've seen the board ebb and flow and have seen literally everyone come and go while we've stayed here and held down the fort. I'm not one of those people who thinks that just because something's been done a certain way before means it has to stay that way, but I do think that the way the board is organized is still valid, but we see board culture shift depending on who is participating. And in this particular season of TTGP, most of the more seasoned members now almost exclusively participate in the IF thread and there's not a ton of participation in the general threads like the GTKYs, CS/Q, Randoms, etc, so there's not a lot of opportunity for crossover which only perpetuates that segregation. And like keiki, I am a slave to my IVF schedule so the dailies unfortunately aren't really applicable to me anymore, and I also lost all interest in trying to make friends with people who would inevitably just move on sooner than later anyway. There was a time when I was one of those people, and to this day I still talk to a handful of those women on an almost daily or weekly basis. 

@abjm0325 oh gosh girl, you flatter us. There was once a time when I was just in awe of the TTGP "royalty" who came before me, the likes of @emmasemm and @Avrilmai, or our resident @stormageddon-darklordofall who patrols TTGP like the Ghost of Christmas Past, and just their sheer collective knowledge and years of experience made them such valued members of the community. They didn't get to be that way because they had easy paths though, and they were (are) highly respected for that reason. Seniority in the TTC world is both impressive and heartbreaking.