IF Testing and Treatment w/o 10/18

kiki047

This is a place for those of us who have already started TTC, but have started infertility testing and/or treatments. You can express your thoughts, feelings, and frustrations on infertility. TTC can be a long journey naturally, then add in the difficulties associated with infertility, and it becomes a whole new ball game. The road to infertility can be lonely, frustrating, and complicated, so let's make this a place where we can vent, ask questions, and support one another. Feel free to resurrect this thread at any point in the week if you have something to say. Treat this as an ongoing conversation.

Diagnosis (if you've been):  

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA):  

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?):  

How are things going?:  

Any questions?:  

GTKY: What would be your go-to karaoke/singing alone in the shower song? 

kiki047

Diagnosis (if you've been):  PCOS, RPL/RIF, MFI 

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA):  WTO 

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?):  IVF #3 

How are things going?:  Not bad. I felt like garbage last night after declaring that I felt really good all weekend, all things considered. Things are ticking along, my ovaries are basically pomegranates right now. He wouldn't tell me actual #s but in attempting to read my chart upside-down, it looks like I have 4-5 follicles between 18-20mm, another 6-8 in the 14-17mm range, and a whole whack between 10-14mm. He's still sticking to the every-3-day monitoring schedule, which is both nice and nerve-wracking, so I go back Wednesday at which point he'll personally do my US and decide when we trigger. We figure my ER will be Friday, which is good because that means I should be able to make it to my work retreat on Saturday. Starting to get crampy and uncomfortable, feeling lots of twinges in my ovaries and just general fullness. He did confirm that depending on the results of this ER, we will most likely roll right into my 2nd ER, and if I'm going to do 2 I might as well do the 3rd (free) because of their BOGO deal. That feels a little daunting, but I look to @bumblebee0210 for your strength and fortitude to soldier through it knowing these *should* be the last ERs we will hopefully ever have to do. We're hoping to have 10-12 euploid embryos by the end of it all. 
Current protocol: Gonal-F 262.5, Menopur 225iu, Cetrotide .25mg

Any questions?:  Lots, but all hypothetical. Trying to just put my trust into this Dr and follow his lead. MH is worried because our best PGT results were from our first cycle, where we only got 5 eggs but had 3 euploid from it, and that was the cycle where we used the lowest doses for stims so he's hypothesizing that more aggressive does not always equal better results. But this isn't like some overly super aggressive protocol, if anything my last RE was suuuper conservative so I want/need to believe that this could and will work. 

GTKY: What would be your go-to karaoke/singing alone in the shower song? Either Spice Girls or BSB. I think "I Want it That Way" or "Wannabe" come to mind first, then probably something 'N Sync or Britney lol. In the shower I seem to almost exclusively sing Christmas songs and I don't know why? 

bumblebee0210

@kiki047 That's great about all the follicles! I'm a little surprised he is letting you go 3 days with 3 18+ follicles, but maybe he has his eyes on all of those littler ones. I got a peek at the actual protocol for standard cycles at my clinic, and the algorithm is typically to trigger once there are 3 18+, and preferably some more 14-17. Anyway, fxx you can get big numbers to get you on your way to your optimal bank. Also-- this is going to become my refrain on here, but I really do think it's helpful not to overanalyze cycle differences. My experience with 6 nearly-identical protocol cycles was wildly different cycle-to-cycle, and the thing that most correlated was just my AFC at the beginning of the month. 

Diagnosis (if you've been):   RPL, DOR

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA):  WFAF 

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?):  FET #1, once CD1 hits

How are things going?:  Good-- I think AF is showing up tonight/tomorrow, so it's time to start the show. My protocol is nothing fancy, just estrace for 10 days, lining check, progesterone for 6 days, transfer. My lining has always been normal-thick during my ER cycles, so I'm hoping we won't have any hangups on this end.

Any questions?:   I don't know anything about typical FET protocols, but this struck me as pretty low-key. Is this normal? I'm not doing any weird testing or mock transfers or anything, basically because there is no indication for me, but it also makes me a little nervous because I worked hard for those embryos, and I'd hate to lose one. 

GTKY:What would be your go-to karaoke/singing alone in the shower song?  We didn't start the fire. This was my favorite song from ages like 4-6, and I still know 90% of the words. 

hanshotfirst77

@kiki75 great follie results. Sounds like you got a good plan going. Fx for your ER!

@bumblebee0210 my FET was very similar. Just estrace until PIO started. I didn’t do any other testing either. My RE never mentioned it to me. I’m assuming they only do if it seems necessary. Fx you don’t lose any precious embryos!

Diagnosis (if you've been):  Unexplained secondary IF and RPL, PCOS 

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA):  waiting on AF for testing 

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?):  I think AF should be coming this week so I can call and schedule my bloodwork and saline Sono hopefully late oct/early nov. 

How are things going?: good.    if the timing works out and it’s all clear I’m probably looking at Dec or Jan FET. Which is exciting that it could be so soonish. But I worry about the holidays messing things up but even still Jan isn’t that far off either. 

Any questions?:  

GTKY: What would be your go-to karaoke/singing alone in the shower song? 
Probably Roar by Katy Perry I have loved that song for a long time. It’s always made me feel empowered after my divorce. 

kiki047

@bumblebee0210 the fact that I had so many in the 18-19mm range and still being pushed to Friday shocked me too. But I guess we'll see. Like just the fact that I went in yesterday and don't go back until Wednesday is enough to make me worried my ovaries will go rogue or something else can/will go wrong. Your FET protocol sounds pretty standard for a medicated FET. That's essentially the same as mine was too. US and BW on CD3, then lining check around CD10 but otherwise start progesterone suppositories 6 days prior to transfer, PIO 3 days prior, doxycycline for me for 3 days before, and continuing both estrogen and progesterone through to beta day (12dp5dt). 
@hanshotfirst77 yay for moving forward! FX you can get your sono booked ASAP and everything looks clear to proceed with your FET. 

knockupthestock

Diagnosis (if you've been):  PCOS

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA):  WTO (CD8)

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?):  timed intercourse attempt #1 - had a baseline US 10/13 and things looked good so we started meds. 5 days of letrozole and clomid, finished yesterday. dexamethasone for the entire of the cycle, as well as increased metformin and synthroid doses. next US is on Friday to see when we trigger.

How are things going?: pretty good. the dexamethasone makes it reallllly hard to sleep which sucks. and something about clomid makes me want nothing to do with my husband, which is a bit counterproductive haha. hes all sweet and cuddling me and im just like go awayyyyy hahaha. also, night sweats, ugh.

Any questions?:  not right now!

GTKY: What would be your go-to karaoke/singing alone in the shower song? it totally depends on what i've been hearing on the radio recently as to what song is in my head. recently its been Fancy Like by Walker Hayes, hahaha. 



@kiki047 - i agree with what others have said, im surprised your RE is waiting when you have multiple 18+ follicles, but they know best! also, thats encouraging to have that many! sorry youre starting to feel it though....those dang pomegranates!

@bumblebee0210 - i dont have any experience with FET but i can understand not wanting to lose any of those embryos you worked hard for! FX!

@hanshotfirst77 - yay for getting things scheduled soon and getting things moving! the holidays always seem to mess things up a bit haha. hopefully it isnt too much of a difficulty!

inthewoods23

@kiki047 gah Wednesday seems so far away! FX this ER goes well for you and starts things off on the right foot!

@bumblebee0210 that does seem pretty low key. I mean, FET cycles always seem more low key compared to the craziness of an ER cycle. I did lupron leading up to the transfer and did estradiol injections every 2-3 days for about 2 weeks before the progesterone was added.

@hanshotfirst77 hope everything looks great for your saline sono so you can get the show on the road. It sucks that the holidays can get in the way of transfers and such, but at the same time I like kind of having the "break" before it's showtime.

@knockupthestock too bad they can't just add some libido booster (if those are even a thing) to med protocols haha

Diagnosis (if you've been): unexplained, low morph, exploring immune issues

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): WTO

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?): still trying to get that damn blood work done lol

How are things going?: great!! I spoke with one of the nurses at my OB's office to discuss the results of the saline sono. It was in fact normal yay!! That's a huge relief so I don't have to go through a hysteroscopy again. Doing that plus the biopsy last cycle made me realize that I've completely forgotten the feeling of having people all up in my business down there time and time again. Doesn't help that I'm way overdue on having a pap smear so the whole speculum insertion, etc felt not as comfortable as I remember.

Any questions?: nope

GTKY: What would be your go-to karaoke/singing alone in the shower song? well my go-to karaoke song is All The Small Things by Blink-182. Singing alone in the shower could be anything. Usually it's whatever gets my hips moving and dancing more than singability. Metal music isn't exactly karaoke friendly haha.

optimistgardener

@kiki047 my ovary hurts just thinking about all those ripe eggs you're lugging around right now. FX for a successful retrieval and, oof, maybe 2 more? that is A LOT of euploid embryos you're aiming at! Tell YH to read that article i posted from last week arguing that protocol, dose, etc., does not show a measurable relationship with euploidy rates. i think we all respond differently to different stim protocols but in the face of just a huge amount of noise at the cycle to cycle level i feel like we have to lean on the study results and try to trust them.

@bumblebee0210 the FET protocol that they had planned for me until my PGT-A results this summer was, i gather, the sort of "deluxe" option, and included a down-regulation phase on BC and lupron before they hit me with the estrace and progesterone. i think the goal was to try to rein in any errant endometriosis stuff going on, just in case, before hand. if that's not one of the things you're worried about then a simple protocol seems fine. the mock transfer i did before my first retrieval was just the doc checking to make sure he could find his way into my cervix without trouble. i had gotten all geared up imagining it was some big thing and then he was done in 5 seconds and i was like, "i've been holding this full bladder for 8 hours and that's it!?" i guess they prefer not to discover that you've got a funky screwed-down-tight cervix while the embryo is literally hanging in the balance. if you've done a bunch of no-hitch IUIs or *TW* have gone through vaginal childbirth *end TW* it'll probably be easy peasy.

@hanshotfirst77 i hope the sono gets scheduled soon and all is smooth sailing!

@knockupthestock i know dexamethasone is a fairly standard thing for fertility applications but i'm always amazed when i see it prescribed in this context. my mom had to be on it during her cancer treatment to keep her body from like, freaking out and destroying itself in response to the chemo regimen, basically. and omg what a miserable drug. mania and no sleep for days and then you come off of it and it's miserable in a different way. i guess what i want to say here is be gentle with yourself while you're taking it. the side effects are really really real. plus clomid is no walk in the park either. good luck finding the inspiration you need to get the job done in spite of all that this cycle!

@inthewoods23 true words on the getting used to having people up in your business again. i was just thinking how it's been months of blissful physical privacy since a doctor last had at me with a bunch of cold lube and an U/S wand.

Diagnosis (if you've been):  eggs just a little wrinklier than last week but i'm trying to pretend my supplements are reversing time.

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA):  WTO

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?):  killing time with an at-home insem while i wait for a late nov. retrieval

How are things going?:  just dandy.

Any questions?:  not really

GTKY: What would be your go-to karaoke/singing alone in the shower song? oh boy. ever since i was a kid i've loved Lyle Lovett's "If I had a boat." That's my solo road trip singing into the breeze song. So I guess it works too for a karaoke/shower context. But I am also a sucker for old-school hip hop so if I were throwing a raging house party (which I suspect is one of those "rear view window" things at this point) I'd kick things off with 50 Cent's in da club or maybe Tupac's California Love.

shortstack930

@kiki047 those follicles sound very promising! I hope you're able to do your retrieval Friday. How soon would you start the stims for the next one?

@bumblebee0210 your FET protocol sounds very similar to mine. I've been on estrogen patches and estradiol pills and then I have 6 days of progesterone before transfer. I did do a mock transfer but it was because I haven't done one in 3 years so they needed to measure stuff.

@hanshotfirst77 so exciting that you could be transferring so soon!

@knockupthestock I had all sorts of reactions to Clomid too. I hope you're able to get some rest soon without the night sweats!

@inthewoods23 I'm so glad the saline sono results were normal!! I totally understand what you mean about not being used to people all up there--the first time I had a TV ultrasound this time around I had totally forgotten how uncomfortable it can be.

@optimistgardener I'm glad you decided to go ahead with the at home insemination!

Diagnosis (if you've been):  Endometriosis

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA):  WTO

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?):  FET this Friday!!!

How are things going?:  I've gotten through my first few PIO shots. They're not terrible, but it was real fun yesterday morning trying to do it on my nondominant side in the bathroom at work. I'm excited for Friday but trying not to get my hopes too high just in case.

Any questions?:  Thoughts on lifting restrictions after FET? The nurse at the RE had said just try not to lift more than 20 lbs for a few days at least which is fine because I'm off for the weekend after the FET but I'm worried about when I go to work next week and have to help lift patients up in bed. The RE said they'd give me a note but I really didn't want anyone at work to know about my situation just yet.

GTKY: What would be your go-to karaoke/singing alone in the shower song? Probably Let It Go from Frozen or anything from RENT or Wicked.

keikilove

Hey all, I apologize— I absolutely hate to post & ghost. So sorry I was MIA the last couple of weeks. I tried to lurk & also tried to get these tags done all of last week, but it kept getting erased while I traveled (the culprit was switching on and off of airplane mode & wifi). So anyway, these tags are mostly from last week and a smidgen from today/the new week. This post erased again twice today so if I missed anyone I will catch you later this week. 

@inthewoods23 LOVE all your wedding stories! Sounds like such a fun time.😊 You got a lot of good advice on the blood draw question. The only trick I will add is to ask the phlebotomist how they’re doing, make small talk. They seem to be gentler when people acknowledge them. The other thing I might add is to go earlier in the day rather than later if possible. (I went last Monday afternoon, just before closing, and the lady was clearly burnt out. She jabbed me so hard that my arm is still bruised and swollen a week later; it was very painful. This has never happened before, but I usually go early in the morning and enjoy the fresh phlebotomist lol.) And yep, retroverted ute over here too.🙋‍♀️ It definitely runs in my family.  

@walkawaynee *Awkward* wedding speeches.😬 Ditto to everyone else’s reaction to your clinic’s policy on back-to-back cycles. That sounds super frustrating. And not normal, but not unheard of I guess. I hope you are able to make a decision you feel good about! Also, you’ve gotten good advice about the reasons to bank. Personally, I don’t buy into the doom and gloom about crappy eggs after 40. I have many friends who did IVF in their 40s and got great euploid embryos & perfect babies on their early attempts. And other friends who are in their 30s having a hard time getting any euploids. It’s all such a crapshoot. I believe the bigger challenges are much greater when there are problems or unknowns in the uterine environment. Hopefully you won’t have to deal with any of that!   

@optimistgardener You seem to have a great plan with the Hail Mary insemination. You know I’m all about those last-ditch efforts😉 As everyone else has said, “Booooo!” to the insurance glitch and the change in plans for your next retrieval. FX that the DIY IUI is successful and you won’t even have to think about ER. Loved your wedding outfit story! I also eschew those traditional things (no garter, etc) but I’m sorry you didn’t have more of a heads-up about the fanciness & fussiness of that crowd! 

@LJMoon6 It may be too late since this was from last week. Here’s a quick research article on letrozole dosing. TL;DR 5 mg is more effective than 2.5 mg. It is better to start it on Days 2-3 rather than later in cycle. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16412748/ There’s also a really interesting research article on extending the 2.5mg dose across the entire duration of stims (10 days) instead of stopping after 5 days. I will link that once I can find it on my computer. There’s another interesting research article that suggests 5 days of 5mg followed by 3 days of 2.5mg as the best combo. Some of the studies say to start in CD1.  It’s maybe too late now, and hopefully it’s all a moot point after this cycle! But potential food for thought for the future. 

@acleverusername Happy belated birthday! Sorry to hear about the crappy insurance news and the accident. Geez, when it rains, it pours. So Glad you are ok! At least one positive thing happened: those precious eggies finally made it from the motherland.💗That seemed like a long time coming.// And HOLY S*** at your wedding story!🤣🤣🤣

@bumblebee0210 Sorry about the most recent fert results. But hooray for moving on to the most exciting part of all of this! Hoping that everything goes smoothly for you from here on out.

@kiki047 I was laughing so hard at your wedding stories too! Your wedding sounds so fun! And the Anil/Anal story… priceless!😂 BTW, Your AFC is jealousy-inducing! I know the ultimate goal is healthy euploid embies overall, but your current AFC is an amazing place to start nonetheless!! FX so hard that the results are just as excellent after retrieval & testing.🤞🏽🤞🏽🤞🏽 And is it just me, or is your stims cycle zipping by? That seemed so fast! 

@shortstack930 Hope things are going well with the PIO! I’ve been doing that almost every month for 2 years and I still dread it every single time.😩 Hopefully you found Kiki’s tips & tricks useful to avoid the lumps & bumps. I heat the entire vial in a small ramekin dish of hot water to help minimize the side effects. Hoping to hear good things from you soon!

bumblebee0210

@keikilove Girl-- I think I speak for all of us when I say, you have more than earned your place on this board, and given all you're going through, it's amazing that you have time and space to cheer us all on. Take care of yourself and know that you are welcome here with open arms whenever. I *think* at this point we know you aren't a Peggy  or a P&G-er. 

ETA
@shortstack930 Eeeee! So soon! I will be cheering you on so hard and not just because I am living vicariously. Today is official CD1 so I'm guessing I'll be about 10 days behind you.  

optimistgardener

@keikilove i was just typing a response that pretty much equates to what @bumblebee0210 has said, and then something made me refresh my page. no apologies. you've got a lot going on.

keikilove

@bumblebee0210 & @optimistgardener Aawww, thanks, friends! I appreciate it.💗

ETA This tag that got erased: @hanshotfirst77 Hoping you are able to get all the testing done ASAP and that it’s green lights for you from here on out🚦 I just love your wedding songs & story. I remember it from your first time around here on TTGP way back when. I always associate your username with your wedding from that GTKY— I can’t remember if it was @inthewoods23 who came up with that GTKY where we all shared our wedding songs—but it was a fun one. Anyway, your wedding sounded epic! 

inthewoods23

@keikilove hey friend! I definitely plan to do the appointment in the morning. Mostly so I can get it out of the way (plus I've heard some have taken a few hours with the boat load of tests they need to put in the system for you), but getting the phlembotomist while they're fresh and not burnt out is a good reason too!

ETA - also yes that was probably a GTKY I came up with. Same with the one where we shared pics of our wedding dresses and shoes! And rings 😆

LJMoon6

@kiki047 Oh my gosh! You’re jugging right along. That’s weird that your RE isn’t telling you your numbers. But I’m glad you could sneak a peek! Pomegranate ovaries sounds so uncomfortable! But you’re so close. And I’m glad you’re going to be able to make your retreat.

@bumblebee0210 Eek! Let’s go! I’m so excited for you to start the FET process.

@hanshotfirst77 January will be here before you know it! These fall months always go by so fast for me.

@knockupthestock I’ve seen a few people taking clomid and letrozole together. What’s the reasoning for that instead of just upping the dose of 1 or the other? (I also want nothing to do with MH and I feel so bad for him lol. You’re not alone!)

@inthewoods23 So happy your saline sono was normal!! I don’t think I will ever get used to having people all up in my business lol. I’m also way overdue for a pap smear. The less people up there, the better at the moment.

@optimistgardener I didn’t get to comment last week about your numbers being slightly better! Yay! Your supplements have to be helping!

@shortstack930 Your FET is so close! Holy crap! At work could you just tell everyone that you pulled a muscle in your back? If you’re not ready to tell anyone, then you should be able to come up with an alternative excuse?

@keikilove Hey girl. I hope you’re doing well and taking care of yourself (and thinking of YH too). Thank you for the information on letrozole! I haven’t messaged my clinic yet, but it’s looking like this cycle didn’t work either. So I’m trying to figure out what would be best moving forward. It’s weird that I have to advocate so hard for a change in protocol when my lining was clearly super thin. I’m going to try to find that second article you talked about (10 days at 2.5mg), because that sounds like it might be better. 5mg has made my lining super thin twice now.

 

Diagnosis (if you've been):  Unexplained

 

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA):  TWW, 11dpIUI and BFN

 

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?):  This was our 3rd IUI.

 

How are things going?:  Blah. Not as shocked by the BFN this morning. I just feel it in my heart that my lining was too thin, however much I told myself not to worry about it. Trying to decide if we’ll do one more cycle this year or take a break. I still need to email my clinic about changing my protocol. If they don’t agree then maybe I’ll go rogue.

 

Any questions?:  I’ve been thinking a lot about our unexplained diagnosis. I know there are some doctors that think many patients with unexplained likely have endometriosis. Or silent endometriosis. When we first started this journey, that was the first thing I thought of because my mom had endometriosis soooo bad. But I don’t have any of the typical symptoms and my tubes are open. And laparoscopies aren’t common anymore, and they especially wouldn’t do one on someone who has no symptoms. Anyways, I guess I don’t really have a question. But just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this.

 

GTKY: What would be your go-to karaoke/singing alone in the shower song? I’m not a big singer in general. I don’t think I’ve ever sang a song in the shower lol. And the only time I’ve sang karaoke is when I’m so drunk I don’t remember it lol.

kiki047

@knockupthestock I think @inthewoods23 has a point, they need to put some aphrodesiacs in those pills, lol. I've never been on dexamethasone but I found letrozole gave me night sweats and it was awful. Hopefully you don't have to endure too much more of that. 
@inthewoods23 woo on the confirmation of your results. All good signs! All the Small Things is a great karaoke song. It is now stuck in my head. 
@optimistgardener it seems like so many embryos to me too, but in my RE's mind, he figures I need anywhere from 2-4 euploid per live birth and if we want 1-3 children, and don't want to have to go through another retrieval down the road, we should be looking at banking around 8-12. Maybe I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that because 1. I can't even fathom having one child right now so it feels like a pipe dream to be planning for 3, but also 2. we still don't really have answers as to why none of our other 3 euploid embryos (plus 1 untested) didn't take, so in that case 12 seems entirely insufficient. As for your comment about your wrinkly eggs - if your test results are any indication, I think those supplements really are doing something right so keep at it!! 
@shortstack930 YAY Friday is going to be an exciting day for both of us!! Glad the PIO is going ok so far. I want the ultra cautious route after my FETs with virtually no lifting of anything, but I know ladies in the past that had LC at home who still carried them around. I would think it's mainly so you're not doing too much core work, but after the first few days you really should be ok. That said, it tends to vary depending on who you ask and their comfort levels.
When my RE said "right away" I assume he means that I would go for my next baseline on my next CD3. In past IVF cycles AF came really early, like 7-8 days as opposed to my usual 13-14 day LP. @bumblebee0210 was doing duostim so that's a little different but I gather that's how it would go?** 
@keikilove ahh I was so happy to see your name pop up. I see you lurking and know you have way too much on your plate these days. Sending you a great big squeeze hug, as I'm a hugger and that's what I do when I haven't seen a friend in a long time.   You're right, this cycle is flying by, I can't believe today is basically my last day of stims and I'm expecting to trigger tomorrow night. I've had a similarly high AFC in past cycles but was on a very conservative protocol so I'm trying not to get my hopes up that it will equate to a buttload of eggs, but we'll see! I do have concerns that we're doing 100% IMSI this time, whereas in the past we've actually had better fert/blast rates with traditional IVF so I'm going to ask about that for next cycle. 


**Paging any grads to weigh in here too, @emmasemm is the only one coming to mind who was banking embryos. 

bumblebee0210

@kiki047 LP after IVF depends on trigger-- I typically go 10-11 days (normal LP for me) after HCG, and on Lupron it was only 5 days (but I think average is a week). And yes, I think if you're not explicitly doing duostim, I think you just go again with a natural start (ie call on CD1 and get your CD2/3 baseline scheduled, and go again). It's honestly not that different than duostim. 

emmasemm

@kiki047 what a good memory you have! Then again I did regale you all with my very many retrievals over a long time 🙈

@shortstack930 greetings old friend

Will put my reply in a spoiler as typically I tend to write a lot 😉

How many embryos you statistically should have to have a certain number of children does vary from person to person of course - even with euploid PGTA tested embryos (as it’s not a 100% accurate science). Your age (lesser so the guy) is still a big factor as even eggs that make euploid embryos might not have the mitochondrial quality to develop normally. And of course PGTA only checks for major chromosomal issues - it doesn’t detect things on a gene level, some of which also can lead to failed implantation or MC. Then you’ve got the full range of all the other issues - uterine, autoimmune etc which can affect some cycles and not others. I mean when you think about it it’s pretty amazing that the human race has even survived since our chances are so low each try 🙈🙈🙈 
For me being almost 40 with DOR and autoimmune diseases when we did our banking retrievals, but with good sperm, we were told statistically we should get one healthy baby from ten embryos. As we had already transferred 3 before, then we stopped at 7 frozen from banking. We actually tried to go for another retrieval right after our last one but my body said no more thanks. 

But yes I’ve heard the 3-4 euploid embryos per child quoted a lot of times for “normal” cases - and actually backed up by those following Donor Eggs - there you have young fit healthy donors and even then not every euploid embryo works out!

TW mention of success

Of course one anecdotal case doesn’t make for good evidence, but we have one (absolutely gorgeous and amazing and hilarious) child from our ten embryos in the end! We did three before, then two to get our daughter. This year we transferred all our remaining embryos in two rounds but unfortunately both were BFNs. So we backed up the statistics! And we’re not quite ready to give up on number 2 yet - though as I’m now 43 😳 we know our chances are even slimmer than in the past.

shortstack930

@emmasemm hello dear friend 

@LJMoon6 I actually had this same issue. Unexplained secondary infertility with IUIs failing and no other explanation for why. I finally got the laparoscopic surgery done and they found stage 1 endometriosis. My only symptom was infertility--tubes were clear, my cycle was like clockwork, no super bad cramps or anything. My RE explained that sometimes women who have stage 1 endo with hardly any issues can't get pregnant without IVF, yet some women with stage 3 or 4 and all the symptoms can still get pregnant on their own or with less help. Also, it definitely runs in families so if your mom had it there's a very good chance you could also. I'm still holding out hope for you that the IUI works and you don't have to worry about any of this.

hanshotfirst77

@LJMoon6 so sorry about the bfn. And that unexplained diagnosis is so frustrating. I have both unexplained secondary infertility and unexplained RPL and I hate the unexplained part. Like why?!?! Why is there no reason. So frustrating. 

@shortstack930 ahh so close! So excited for you!

@optimistgardener super excited you are doing an insemination this cycle. Got everything crossed for you!

@keikilove aww thank you friend. It probably is. So many elements were Star Wars based haha. I hope you and your H are doing well 

optimistgardener

@hanshotfirst77 just for clarity, i'm free-styling it. so it's not like an actual IUI or anything. just a jar of jizz and a needleless syringe, haha. i've probably said this in a few places before but i don't have high hopes, considering my track record. but it always feels better to try.

@ljmoon6 dang about the BFN. so sorry! i know in IVF we can do a down-regulation protocol before a transfer to knock back endo a bit. I'm not sure if there are any medical treatments that help if you're just doing IUI/TI.

kiki047

@optimistgardener "Mommy, where do babies come from?" "Well sweetie, first you need a jar of jizz, and a needleless syringe..."  I'm dying. I'm so glad my romanticized vision of how babies are made was corrected long, long ago... our stories would be similarly unglamorous. 
@bumblebee0210 I'm curious if they'll give me an HCG or Lupron trigger. As for AF, I guess we'll wait and see what happens! 
@LJMoon6 I missed your check-in, we must've been cross-posting at the same time. I'm so sorry for your BFN. Even when you kinda know it's coming, it is still such a punch in the gut. Checking for silent endo isn't a bad idea, especially if it runs in your family. 
@emmasemm thank you for your wise words, as always. Always appreciate your input. 

hanshotfirst77

@optimistgardener haha I love your phrasing! I tried some home attempts myself before it was made clear i needed IVF. But hey it’s always worth a shot. 

LJMoon6

@shortstack930 That’s so crazy. Did you have to push for the laparoscopy or did your RE recommend it? I have been having painful ovulations lately. I mostly chalked that up to the meds tho. I did always gets O cramps but lately they have been painful. My mom had endo so bad she ended up having a hysterectomy and her ovaries removed (from cysts). I just assumed I didn’t have it, since I didn’t have any symptoms. I can’t remember what my RE said about it when I brought it up.

@hanshotfirst77 The “unexplained” kills me too. It’s like a slap in the face.

@optimistgardener I haven’t heard of anyone doing something like that for an IUI. But that would be interesting. I would definitely give it a shot.

@kiki047 Thanks friend. I might have to look into it and see if insurance would even cover a laparoscopy. I’m super curious to find out either way.

acleverusername

OMG dying at "a jar of jizz" @optimistgardener. 

optimistgardener

@kiki047 and @acleverusername so glad to entertain! yeah, being a hopeful "independent mom" (to use our new lingo!) means that a process already made less romantic by the burdens of infertility is made even less so by the absence of a romantic partner. it is entirely about delivering sperm to egg.

shortstack930

@LJMoon6 after trying on our own for about 16 months and then 3 medicated IUI cycles with no success my RE told me I had a choice to go straight to IVF or get the laparoscopy to see if I had endo. I was terrified of IVF and also really wanted answers so I opted for the surgery first. She was able to code it in a way that insurance covered it, I think she put it as due to some sort of pain to get it covered. We did two IUIs with letrozole after that with no success and then opted for IVF.

knockupthestock

@optimistgardener ya, the dexa is so strong, its an interesting addition, haha. i think im adjusting to it more....or maybe im just getting used to being without sleep haha. my husband is always cold in our house but im always sooooo hot haha so it makes things interesting. "jar of jizz" LOLLLLL

@shortstack930 im not sure on lifting the restrictions post FET....but ive never done FET. im always just so cautious about everything. that is a tough spot to be in, not wanting to tell work about it yet....totally understandable. also, you must be an Idina Menzel fan - frozen, rent, and wicked, hahaha

@LJMoon6 ya the letrozole and clomid together....haha. when we tried for our first, they had me on just letrozole and it was taking forever for my ovaries to respond. so my RE said that sometimes combining the two gives it enough of a kick to work. i guess they work differently to stimulate the ovaries, so having both stimulation methods helps? and im so sorry about your BFN unexplained has to be so so hard. i know they dont like to do laparoscopies, but you can push it if you feel like its worthwhile. *tw* my mom had problems getting pregnant with me and they ended up doing a laparoscopy and cleaning out all the endometriosis junk and they got pregnant with me the next try....by cleaning out the stuff it helped my little embryo stick to her lining *end tw* its really hard and im sorry you have to deal with this!

*tw - child discussed*

yesterday was a hard day with my toddler and it totally made me question why we are trying to have another one. im gonna chalk it up to the hormones from the meds, hopefully, haha

inthewoods23

@LJMoon6 I definitely think it's worth investigating! I mean, here I am working with an RI after reading about others experiences here and just having a feeling that something else was up

@kiki047 it certainly can be an earworm haha


Ok ladies, I'm finally getting somewhere down this road. The medical assistant spent an hour on the phone with my insurance yesterday and still didn't get a good answer on what requires pre-authorization. In order to not end her day on a bad note she sorta took some matters into her own hands and found a lab that can do the genetic tests AND also handle the pre-authorization stuff themselves. It would again require me getting my blood drawn locally and then shipped to this lab. But I'll take it! I scheduled an appointment again at Quest to finally do the basic labs so that's all out of the way. Just hoping I don't spend more than an hour there but who knows... there's 26 tests for them to run!

And as I should have expected, my dad mentioned to my mom about seeing this new doctor and she's all excited for us. So I can't believe I'm gonna say this but I actually plan on updating them on how my test results go?? I'm having a total change in mindset here! I think part of it is that I can end it at "we've been given the green light" and not update them until we can announce a pregnancy when we're comfortable.

kiki047

@inthewoods23 If your 26 tests is anything like my 25 or so vials I had to do last month, it really doesn't take as long to draw the blood as you would think. Make sure you take a drink with you or like a granola bar or something for afterwards. I usually opt for apple juice or gingerale. I felt surprisingly ok though, not as light headed as I thought I'd be. 
@optimistgardener speaking of sperm, my very stoic RE actually made a joke today while he was digging around with Wanda trying to get a look at my insanely stimulated ovaries. I asked if we're still good for Friday and he's like "Yup, but you're gonna need some sperm. Know anyone?" There was a big awkward pause while I tried to figure out if he was joking, then I assume he was smirking under his mask because he kinda gave a chuckle and then we both laughed. 


AFM, all looked good at my update today, my RE did the ultrasound himself and didn't spend nearly as much time in there as the techs do because I guess he got his confirmation and was satisfied with that. I trigger tonight at 1am - Lupron trigger this time, not HCG. I also start doxycycline and cabergoline (dostinex) tonight, the latter I'm told is for prevention of OHSS. That's a new one for me. I know we have a lot of DOR ladies here these days so I think I'm in the minority when it comes to being at risk for that. Certainly not a bad problem to have, with such a high AFC, but I'm lowkey terrified of OHSS. Just really hoping for some good results. My ER is Friday at noon. 

inthewoods23

@kiki047 they had me on the cabergoline too since my estrogen was in the 3000s come trigger time. They also had me trigger with only 5000IU of the HCG trigger instead of the usual 10,000 to help lower the risk of OHSS. Did he tell you a follicle count at all? Keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you!!

optimistgardener

@kiki047 i feel like REs have the weirdest humor.

zwink1

@bumblebee0210, that does seem  low key for an FET cycle but I also know plenty of people who have done "natural" FETs with minimal meds, so I think it's more about finding what works for you.  I'm on the "deluxe" (lol) plan @optimistgardener described, so 21 days of BC prep, then like 10 days of just lupron, then the estradiol got added in (though I have pills not shots - today is day 14 of that) and in the next day or so the lupron will get dropped and PIO will get picked up.  I must have been in some sort of fog last time around because I don't remember it being this extensive before, but it's the same protocol.

@kiki047, I hope everything went well today!!!

@hanshotfirst77, sending you good vibes for smooth scheduling and FX you can get rolling shortly. 

@shortstack930 FX everything goes smoothly Fri!!! 

@keikilove - what @bumblebee0210 and @optimistgardener said.  Thinking of you and your fam!

@LJMoon6, this isn't going to be a super helpful response to your question, but to your endo point - I recently read an article about a scientific study touting a break through on findings related to endo's effects on fertility (other than physical blockage), and vaguely recall the findings pointing to hormonal imbalances caused by the endo.  I should have bookmarked it for follow up reading.  I've been curious about this exact thing for a while because my doctors have suspected that endo is playing a role in our case, but I've never had a lap done to confirm.  On the one hand, our confirmed MFI diagnosis sort of helps because it so clearly paints us into a box that any issues that might be stemming from potential endo on my end are sort of defacto addressed, but for people not in a clear box, the mystery of possible endo is a real challenge.  It's too bad men don't have to deal with it because surely someone would've invented Testing that doesn't involve surgery by now...

@emmasemm!!!  I have nothing to add, just wanted to say hi, friend!

Diagnosis (if you've been): primarily MFI + ovulatory dysfunction

Status (WTO/TWW/TTA): fake WTO

What are you doing this cycle? (Testing? Treatment?):  mid FET - transfer tentatively planned for 10/29

How are things going?:  things are fine.  I meant to post last week and just never got there.  I'm having a bit of trouble forming any sort of enthusiasm about anything lately, so I need to work on my crappy attitude, but otherwise, things are good.  

Any questions?:  nope.  Just hoping I can be done with these lupron shots by tomorrow... not that the PIO is necessarily an improvement, but at least it's in a new locale because I'm all bruisy and bloated. 

GTKY: What would be your go-to karaoke/singing alone in the shower song?
Oh man.  This is actually kind of hard.  I avoid karaoke at all costs, and my shower songs tend to change with the times.  If I haaddd to pick something, pretty much anything boy bands works as a shower jam - with an overall edge going to BSB.

shortstack930

@knockupthestock yesss I love Idina!!

@inthewoods23 I'm glad you got all the blood work stuff sorted out! I think it's great that you want to share the results with your parents.

@zwink1 looks like our FETs will only be a week apart!! I'm so excited for you!!

optimistgardener

heeeey @ zwink1 i have questions about how the lupron's side effects are treating you... is it the hellscape of hot flashes and emotional bleah that i've heard rumors about? also omg! the 29th is right around the corner! you may be having a hard time getting enthusiastic about things right now (maybe it's the lupron?!) but i am way jazzed on your behalf! 🎉

emmasemm

Lurking…

@kiki047 I twice had OHSS, once mild and once moderate… with only two eggs collected each time… I mean when you have both DOR and OHSS, basically IF is just laughing at you 🙈 I hope with the Lupron and cabergoline you don’t get hit hard by it. And it’s most dangerous if you’re doing a fresh transfer.

@zwink1 hey there old friend. Excited for you and @shortstack930 !!! 

jellie603

I realize I am not contributing anything of here, mostly because all of this is greek to me at this point 😂 and I'm sorry that I can't. But just wanted to pop in and ask for you all to gear up in dumbing down anything that I will need to learn/understand haha! Had my first US on Monday and I'm dropping by the lab at some point today to do my CD3 bloodwork (initial testing and all that fun stuff). So I am hoping to hear back from them by mid-week next week. Now to get MH to use the cup that has been sitting on our counter for legit 4 weeks....

optimistgardener

@jellie603 we are totes here for your questions whenever you want to join us. good luck with prodding the H into submitting his sample.

@kiki047 how're you feeling with the trigger in you? lots of weird tweaky sensations yet? i can't wait to hear how your retrieval goes!

kiki047

@inthewoods23 no follicle count, at this point I think I'm better off not knowing. No expectations. I'm told I'll get an update before I leave tomorrow on how many they retrieved, then fertilization report Saturday, then Day 3 and 5 updates. MH isn't allowed to stay with me this time, so he'll come do his part then I'm sending him down the street to one of my favourite little cafes to get me a sweet treat for later lol. 
@zwink1 ohh the 29th is coming up sooon! Like optimist said, we'll be here to cheer for you/cheer you on even when you're not feeling it. 
@shortstack930 @knockupthestock eavesdropping on your convo but another Idina fan here. 
@emmasemm oh man, seriously about the OHSS? That's just a cruel joke at that point. No fresh tsf here so I feel slightly more reassured that we can keep it under control. 
@jellie603 trust me when I say that we all started somewhere, and I learned most of what I know from lurking and asking questions in this thread, so definitely ask alllll the questions and don't feel bad for doing so. GL with these initial stages! And yes, get YH to do his thing... MH took some prompting too. 
@optimistgardener so far so good, though I panic with every twinge and cramp thinking I'm going to ovulate early and I'll have no eggs left tomorrow. I know that's not a thing but this is where my mind is at. I'm extremely bloated and uncomfortable though, to the point where I'm wearing my Smash + Tess romper around the house because it has no waistline, and also because it's freezing in here and I refuse to turn on the heat yet. Thank god for WFH today, I'd be miserable at my desk. 


I got an email from my clinic this morning about a really cool new research study they're doing as an add-on to PGT-A testing. PGT-A looks at the DNA makeup of the cells, but they want to study the relationship between  RNA and positive outcomes (it sounds like they define a "healthy pregnancy" as anything that makes it past the first trimester). I think we'll go for it. There's no additional cost and it doesn't compromise the PGT testing in any way - they "open" the cells to obtain the genetic material then split that sample in half, 50% is used for DNA PGT-A testing and the other 50% will either be used as a backup in case the PGT-A testing is inconclusive/they need more info, or else it will be used for further studies. I'm not a researcher, but is there any real downside to this? 

zwink1

@optimistgardener, luckily no hot flashes here - but then I generally run cold anyway, so I'm wondering if that's just sort of balancing out, lol.  The emotional blah is definitely for real.  I'm either completely unenthused by anything, or I'm an emotional ping pong ball depending on the day/time of day.  Other than that, most of the side effects are pretty low key, but there's enough of them that the combination of them is unpleasant. The tiredness hits hard, particularly in the early afternoon, and i have virtually constant low grade, just enough to annoy, headache.  I already mentioned the bruising (+ burning at injection site).  Other than that, it's hard to say what's a side effect and what's not, like, I've been sneezing way more than normal but there's an even chance that's just allergies, lol.

@jellie603, we're happy to answer any questions you've got!  You're not alone. My H was the worst procrastinator on the planet.  It took repeated prodding to get him moving.  Why is it that they can get stuff for their hobbies done/scheduled in like 2 seconds flat, but actual important stuff gets kicked down the road? Someone must have done a psychological study on this at some point, lol.  But for real though, he should get that sent in and tested before you get too far down the testing road because it's one of the easiest tests to check off the list and the results can make a big difference in how you proceed.

optimistgardener

@jellie603 @zwink1 i feel like if orgasms were like, an obligatory part of my contribution to this whole tired process of testing and just the basic mechanics of the thing (instead of, you know, bloodwork and invasive U/S and injections) i would not be procrastinating, but i do imagine it can feel a little weird for dudes. still: bloodwork? or orgasm? i know which one i'd choose.

(edit because i dragged kiki047 into this unnecessarily! as you were!)

but actually @kiki047 my strong opinion about joining studies is YES, DO THEM! the organizers of such studies are obliged to make sure the study design does not infringe on your success rates, but you get the added benefit of having cool extra data about yourself, plus i feel like being part of a study means people are paying a little bit of extra attention to make sure things go well for you.