IF testing and treatment W/O 8/19

ruby696

@kpearse99 they are reabsorbed, so it makes sense that if they're smaller, it's because you ovulated. I don't think they would reabsorb/shrink unless ovulation had occurred.

kpearse99

@ruby696 okay, that's what I've been thinking too. And I find it hard to believe that the follies would grow and grow if I wasn't going to produce an egg to O.

Just trying to wrap my head around all of this information.  Just when I think I figure it out, I'm thrown for a twist and a turn!

hanshotfirst77

@kpearse99 wow that is really strange. I hope you really did O. I'm sorry I forget did you use a trigger?

@ruby696 I'm glad your ER went smoothly. I hope those eggs are perfect and Fx for a smooth transfer Saturday! Are you planning on transferring both?

ruby696

@hanshotfirst77 I meant to type three eggs - so I'm thinking they'll transfer two and freeze one? I guess we'll see if they all make it to day two.

inthewoods23

@ruby696 glad things went well with your ER! Do you know if they all fertilized?

@kpearse99 what a roller coaster! I hope things start making sense, and if they don't, at least you know you have a great and supportive RE!

kpearse99

@hanshotfirst77 we didn't get to do the trigger because my levels on Monday were indicating I was Oing on my own.  (At least I didn't waste the trigger lol)

@inthewoods23 a supportive RE but also super supportive and wonderful bump friends!!! For real, I always feel better after talking with your ladies!

ruby696

@inthewoods23 I haven't heard yet... how long did you have to wait until you knew??

emmasemm

*lurker responding to the page from @ruby696 *

First of all congrats on your three eggs! This is a really good result!
I am keeping everything crossed that you get a great report on maturity and fertilization tomorrow!

I have also done a day 2 transfer before - it doesn’t really make a difference day 2 or 3, the only thing is if they watch to day 3 they know a tiny bit more about their development than on day 2. But it’s still the egg doing most of the work at that stage - only going to day 5 tells you if the sperm gets it butt in gear and starts driving embryo development more. Remember when we were banking we froze all embryos on day 3. So also don’t be worried if they freeze any extras on day 2 or 3 instead of growing to blast. It’s all fine.

It is common with us older DOR ladies to do earlier transfers than younger patients or those with more embryos.
Logic is it is better (if your uterus is looking great, no bad effects from stims or retrieval etc) to put embryos back in their natural environment where there is a slightly higher chance they survive than in the lab if you don’t have many rather than try to grow to blastocyst and then risk having nothing to transfer. Transferring early does not reduce chances of success. This is really important to understand. If an embryo doesn’t lead to a +be with a day 2 transfer, it would not have done with a day 5 either.
You are just “testing” your embryos in your ute rather than in the lab. Especially for older ladies if our eggs are a little more “sensitive” then they really can do much better in their natural environment than in a tube.

Regarding transferring multiple embryos - only do it if they are looking of similar quality and development stage. So if one looks fragmented or isn’t quite developing as expected, don’t mix it with a top quality one for transfer - transferring embryos of different quality and/or development stage together is linked to slightly worse outcomes. Two of same stage and quality should be fine in your circumstances though. 

Please keep me updated and feel free to pm too - though happy to post replies here For everyone’s benefit if you’re all comfortable.

Sending happy fertilizing thoughts to your eggs!

ruby696

@emmasemm Thank you, that made me feel a lot better. I hope you're doing well! ❤❤

emeraldduchess

@kpearse99 I am sorry your body is being all sorts of confusing right now. It sounds like you are in excellent hands with your RE, though!

@ruby696 I am crossing everything I have that you get good news tomorrow and can do your transfer on Saturday!! 💜

inthewoods23

@ruby696 ok I feel stupid because I remembered my own ER wrong. Later in the day of the ER I was told how many were mature. The next day they told me how many fertilized 🤦

I'll ask again tomorrow 😄

mokay19

@kpearse99 sorry about the confusion! So, I’ve been told by several RE’s that once your eggs get over a certain size, they most likely won’t just shrink away. I believe that size was about 15 mm so I would have thought that yours were already past the point of no return... of course, the measurements may have just been a little off and they actually weren’t. 
Now, I have had a cycle where my follicles started to grow, got into double digits, and then just went away. 
Instead of waiting for a period (since I don’t get periods) or “waiting and seeing” they just checked to see if my bloodwork was at baseline and gave me another, higher dose of Letrozole—I started at 5 mg and went up to 7.5 mg. 
It is possible that your follicles started to develop and then stalled out and that you need a higher dose of Letrozole to really get them over the hump.  
Are you going back tomorrow for bloodwork to see if your progesterone does rise?  
Do you track BBT to give some answers if you O’d?

ruby696

@inthewoods23 I had three that were mature but I won't know how many fertilized until my transfer on Saturday. Which is kind of annoying, but I'll deal I guess.

kpearse99

@mokay19 I don’t go back for bloodwork until Like two weeks from now when AF arrives or doesn’t.  At this point they just want us to have more sex for a few more days.  I don’t temp... I’ll just keep doing OPKs for a little longer and hope for the best! 

I feel like my follies, most of them anyway, certainly past the point where they would just vanish. On Monday the biggest was at 17mm. I really don’t understand all of it, so I’m just having faith in my RE. 

mokay19

@kpearse99 well, I really hope that you ovulated and the progesterone just hadn’t spiked yet! Good luck!

mokay19

So, we just got DH's SA results back... a little backstory, back in 2016 when he first did a SA, everything was great. High numbers, great morph (like around 10%), etc.  In April 2019, he had good counts but a 2.4% morphology and elevated leukocytes.  He did a round of doxy for the leukocytes and then we were assumed to be okay.  BUT, he did his repeat SA last week and now his leukocytes are good but his morphology dropped to 0.9%.

Does anyone know what could cause these quick drops?  Any suggestions to increase morphology?  He takes CoQ10 and men's daily vitamins now.  I know this question has probably been asked so many times but we were never dealing with male stuff so I had always let the answers go in one ear and out the other  

misshelen86

@mokay19 I don’t know if I’ll be much help since I’m new to all this. My H was low on morph, count and motility. He was asked to switch vitamins, watch his diet and get back into exercising (he is a normal weight for his height but hadn’t been exercising much because he’s been so busy with work). He went for bloodwork to check his hormones and thyroid and also went for an ultrasound to check for varicoceles. That might be an important one to look into if you haven’t already. I read that 15% of men in the general population have a varicocele, but up to 40% of infertile men have them. Hopefully your RE will have some answers for you!

mokay19

@misshelen86 has your husband always had low numbers?  Or did something change?  My biggest concern is that it's dropping... and seemingly quickly.  DH just ordered some recommended vitamins to add to his daily intake!

misshelen86

@mokay19 He’s only had the one SA so far.. he’ll probably go for a repeat soon. Has your H recently had a high fever or anything else that could cause a drop? More stress than usual? I also read an interesting article on how sperm varies by season. Sperm concentration and morph tend to be higher in the winter than the summer. So could just be fluctuating with the season?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12634309

mokay19

@misshelen86 no sickness lately.  Not any more stress seemingly.  That's interesting about the seasonal variations though!  I would think they'd have him do another repeat one in the future so hopefully the weather will be cooler then  
The steady decline is still worrying... from around 10% in 2016 to 2.4% in Spring 2019 and now 0.9% in Summer 2019...

misshelen86

@mokay19 That is a pretty big drop! Has he had bloodwork or an ultrasound done yet?

mokay19

@misshelen86 he had bloodwork done with the first SA, but not this one.  And no ultrasound yet.  We just got the results back today so I'm hoping the RE calls him today to discuss what she thinks.  We're already planning on doing IVF if this current cycle doesn't work so she might just say to keep with that plan.  I just worry that even with IVF, if things are dropping, could it affect the fertilization rate?  idk!  

kiki047

Ahhh @ruby696 FX FX so hard that they all fertilize and you get a couple you can transfer. Do they put you right under for the ER or how does that work? 
@kpearse99 that's a bummer you didn't get to do the IUI this cycle but glad your RE is still optimistic and it wasn't a total wash. Was this your first monitored cycle? My RE always does one or two 'diagnostic' cycles before he gets to the IUI for the reasons your RE mentioned - so they can see how your body functions normally, then they add in the letrozole + TI and gather whatever info they need so they don't have to find these things out after the fact. That being said, up here in Canada we don't pay for any of the ultrasounds or b/w so it's "free". I'd probably feel differently if I had to pay for the monitoring. Sorry things are still super confusing - are your cycles normally pretty regular? I have PCOS so what you described sounds like my an-o cycles before I changed my diet and started metformin. I hope they can figure it out soon!
@mokay19 that's good that he's adding any supplemental vitamins in case his multi doesn't include important fertility-specific vitamins and minerals like selenium, magnesium, vit c, vit d, folic acid (yes, men need it too!) and zinc. MH takes FertilAid, which is pricey but his count went up from 19mil to 27mil after taking it (not even regularly lol) for about 7 months. He also lost 50lbs in that time frame. I also have him on an Omega3 supplement in addition to the 400mg of CoQ10 daily. I've read conflicting things about morph itself. Some studies say it makes a big difference, others kind of dismiss it. 
@emmasemm thank you for all the info! I, for one, appreciate it when you can respond in the general thread (as opposed to PM) because that is all info I might need to know someday! Very interesting info re: fresh vs frozen, I didn't know any of that. 

kpearse99

@kiki047 this was my first letrozole monitored cycle but the 2 cycles before that, while we were doing all the testing, he was also monitoring me (CD3 baseline and mid cycle U/S).  Thankfully my insurance does cover IUIs - I only have to pay my copays, so I am extremely lucky for that! Before the mirena I never had regular cycles but after the IUD came out I was every 30 days.... with the except of the last 2 cycles for some reason (40 days and 38 days). The bloodwork for those late cycles showed that I did O... I just don't know when exactly.

I had a peak OPK Monday and Tuesday, then it dropped down Wednesday and Thursday but then this morning I got another peak...so who knows!!!  I'm gonna keep testing for the next week - maybe this 2nd surge will be the real O.  I'm just so confused and I'm trying not to go crazy figuring it out because that's what my RE is for, right?! I have complete trust in him, I just wish I understood better. Dr. Google just makes me more crazy!

@ruby696 thinking of you!!!!!!!

kiki047

@misshelen86I wonder if the air temperature makes any difference since testicles like to be cool for sperm production? lol obviously totally grasping at straws (edited to fix typo)
@mokay19 does YH wear loose fitting boxers too? Count can fluctuate a lot depending on the last time he ejaculated prior to the test, etc, but I honestly have no idea what can cause morph to fluctuate that much in a relatively short time period. When you do IVF, will you be doing ICSI too? We were advised to go that route based on MH's DNA fragmentation test results. 

misshelen86

@kiki047 That’s what I was thinking too, but who knows?

ruby696

Okay, so I just got the call that my transfer is at 10:10 tomorrow, so at least one must have fertilized!! Lining was at 10 last Tuesday and I started PIO yesterday. Eeek! I'm so excited, but so nervous that it won't work! *takes a deep breath*

@kiki047 I was under general anesthesia, but the procedure was at my RE's office. So it was really relaxed and everyone was excited. I was pretty sore yesterday afternoon and still some today, but mostly because of course I have a cough right now. If I don't cough, I feel perfectly fine. It was a very easy procedure. 

@mokay19 I don't know anything about SA issues, other than I've heard the varicocele thing @misshelen86 mentioned. FX it's something they can get turned around.

mokay19

@kiki047 he wears boxer briefs, but his count hasn’t seemed to be affected. For IVF, we’d be doing ICSI because that’s what our clinic does for all IVF cycles. 

kpearse99

@ruby696 I'll be thinking about you tomorrow morning

inthewoods23

@ruby696 so excited for you!!! Keep us updated!

ruby696

@inthewoods23 How did your injection go last night??

misshelen86

@ruby696 So exciting! I’ll be thinking of you tomorrow! Hope everything goes smoothly 

hanshotfirst77

@ruby696 so excited for you! I'll be thinking of you tomorrow

mokay19

@ruby696 such exciting news!  Are they just going to tell you before the transfer what they'll be transferring and what happened with the embryos?  Or are you expecting a call later today?

inthewoods23

@ruby696 I didn't even feel it go in and I didn't use ice! And then as soon as I took the needle out I bled. Oops! But it wasn't bad at all. I just hope I'm injecting in the right spot.

bluetickgal

@ruby696 yay, so exciting!! Hoping all goes well tomorrow!! 💜

kiki047

@ruby696 ahhhh so exciting!! I'll be holding my breath for you all weekend. I hope everything goes smoothly tomorrow.  

ruby696

@mokay19 They'll tell me how many of the three made it to day two and whether they are similar, as far as quality goes. My RE will have a recommendation based on like quality. So she'll want to transfer two of there are two good ones, but maybe only one if there is one good embryo and two okay embryos.

@inthewoods23 Good job!! I'm so glad it went well! 

emeraldduchess

@ruby696 eek!! So excited for you, friend!! 10:10 sounds like a lucky time.  

NYTino24

@ruby696 Fingers are crossed so hard for you!!