Chart Stalk / Questions - April

b_1029

Whatcha got this month?

holly321

Does anyone else find CP really unreliable?   Not just thinking it is high, then having it actually be high the next day.  I feel like it changes too much throughout the day.  I’d there a better way or time of day for checking?

chichiphin

@holly321 I think I have better luck with softness/openness rather than actual position, because that for me is usually consistent when I check after I get home from work. I know you aren't supposed to check too close after a BM. 

holly321

@chichiphin, thanks!  Tw... I guess from all the d&c’s and such, mine always feels open, maybe a slight but  still there change.  Maybe I will just stick with checking each day at a certain time.

chichiphin

@holly321 well I haven't gotten back to it after my d&e... so that is a fair point and I'll have to watch out for that  

b_1029

@holly321 I definitely find it unreliable. It's totally different AM to PM. I usually just check in the mornings so it's at least always around the same time 

keikilove

@holly321 I only check in the mornings. Also *TW* If you’ve had other children it may always feel just slightly open *End TW*. You just have to get a feel for what is normal for you. 

lcking82

I do think same time every day is recommended. 

jackie_dunny

*lurking*

@holly321 As PPs have said, you are meant to check around the same time everyday. 

From TCOYF:

”3. Try to check at about the same time each day. Just after a morning or evening shower is probably the most convenient time. But do not check immediately after a bowel movement because you obviously risk introducing bacteria, and it could cause the cervix to open. And don’t check it the very first thing in the morning because it may be temporarily harder to reach. 

4. The most effective position in which to check is squatting, since this pushes the cervix closest to the vaginal opening. However, some women prefer to check while sitting on the toilet, or putting one leg on the bath. Just be consistent about the position you choose, since different positions will change the cervical height.”

ETA: typo

chichiphin

So I'm currently researching the cost of treatments depending on if we have to move on to IVF+PGD or not, and there has been some discussion in the IF thread, but I have looked heavily in the shared-risk programs for paying for IVF costs once my 15k lifetime max could potentially run out (can you tell I'm 100% an over-planner and have some form of neurosis?). I found this fertilityIQ article that was VERY eye-opening, and wanted to share it with those who were also considering a shared-risk program for paying. Obviously if someone has had a diff experience, pls let me know!!

https://www.fertilityiq.com/topics/cost/ivf-refund-and-package-programs

flinstone-2

I need help with my chart. Last cycle I O'd on CD20 with letrozole. I had signs leading up to it, a +opk, etc. Now I'm "4dpo" according to my chart, but around the same time as the temp spike I also had a cold.
I didn't take any timely OPKs because usually they are a waste before CD15/16 for me. I didn't have any O pain yet either. 

Should I keep omitting these temps until my cold is 100% gone and keep HIO?

inthewoods23

@chichiphin I hadn't looked much into that although I know my clinic offers it. Very interesting article! I think it really depends on your diagnosis if these shared risk programs are worth it. I know some people go through multiple rounds of retrieval to build up their collection of embyros. It can definitely make sense for some and not for others.

emmasemm

@chichiphin unfortunately out of the 14 shared risk programs I enquirer about I was excluded from all due to my DOR. Even the most generous don’t accept me - and most don’t support banking as they want you to transfer all embryos from each round one by one before you start the next retrieval.
I think if you’re unexplained it can be a good gamble - but like all things you need to read the small print very carefully.

lcking82

@flinstone-2:  with all your mixed signals, I would proceed to HIO as though O has not occurred.  I think the next few days should be helpful - just leave your temps in for now, and maybe get some good nookie in (if possible).  
I don't think early O is out of the question, but certainly without your usual signs, it's a little suspect.  

chichiphin

@emmasemm oh totally - which I didn’t know until I read that article. I guess I was kind of irritated bc many clinics I looked in to advertised shared
risk as a way to pay, but this article was the first place I found out they have limitations on dx, which I was like, ??? You go through IF Treatment bc there is a bigger issue there ??? 

inthewoods23

@emmasemm okay I definitely didn't read the article enough... Wouldn't someone with DOR be a good candidate for this because you are less likely to get good quality eggs all the time thereby needing more round of IVF for success???

chichiphin

@inthewoods23 that's why they don't want you in the program, you are too much risk to the pool because you need more rounds. 

emmasemm

@inthewoods23 not all shared risk programs are the same, but basically they offer it to people who they think have a good chance of success in say three rounds if that’s what their plan offers. Of course you never know how people respond to meds, if there are hidden egg quality issues etc until you do the first cycle - especially the unexplained group. So the clinic/partner hopes some of these will be successful first round and on those cases they “make” money. However some will have hidden challenges they didn’t expect and some of these might take 2 rounds (probably breakeven for the program) but others 3. Some programs offer all your money back if you’re not successful at the end even... but those have super tough entry criteria normally.
As a patient you know your fixed cost and don’t have to worry about costs escalating unexpectedly. If you think there might be more behind your reason for needing IVF and you might need more than one round it can be good. But some programs can also kick you out if you end up not having good results. You do know the clinic wants to do everything possible to get you KU by your first or latest second round so they make a profit - so they should go all out for you. Then again if you think a clinic is not trying everything to get you KU then you should probably change clinics...
In short - the programs are mostly not about who needs them (from a number of rounds perspective) but is literally gambling with good prognosis patients whether they really just need a blastocyst back in on the right day in the right place to solve their issues or if there is something more complex behind their unexplained.
Some shared risk programs even offer 2 rounds own eggs but third round must be donor eggs... 
There are a lot of variations.

I didn’t do shared risk, but instead I negotiated a package deal - kind of like “buy 2 get 1 free”  ;-) 
I’m an experienced patient, take little management or support from the team, have low numbers of eggs so don’t create leak workloads for the embryologists, freeze all so easy for them to plan ahead... and of course once I had embryos they know I’ll come back to them for FET so securing their future business... well that was my nego approach!

chichiphin

question for my TTCAL ladies (or anyone tbh) **tw mention of my loss** and I posted here rather than TTC after Loss because it would prob get me more eyes. Pls let me know if this is in any way against the rules since I’m not actually asking if I’m KU (bc it’s impossible 🙃)

okay so today is a day where I wish I could post a stick somewhere and get line advice. I’m still trying to test out the hcg in my sys. Today I got the most squinter of evaps on the hpt. Tested an OPK for funsies. Blazing positive - so what gives?

Is this possible? Can you O with remnant hcg? Is enough preg hormone left at 3 weeks post d&e to give a blazing OPK? 

flinstone-2

@lcking82 yeppp temp dropped today and I also got diagnosed with an ear infection and put on antibiotics. I had no idea that adults could get them. I discarding every temp since this whole thing started. It also kind of looks like letrozole isn't going to work this month which is weird and annoying. Oh well RE appt is in 2 weeks. 

@chichiphin i have no idea about the lines but I am definitely interested to see what happens! 

inthewoods23

@chichiphin hmm... Coming from the IUI perspective, the trigger shot is HCG and for funsies I tested both an OPK and cheapie HPT the other month. Blazing positive on the OPK and a fairly dark line on the HPT (obvs). I've read that OPKs can pick up on HCG but maybe you are actually close to O since the HPT is nearly negative? 🤷

ETA: Frankly I think having a pinned "What does a positive OPK look like?" thread on this board would be a good idea because it gets hard to tell if something is positive or juuuust not quite positive (I think we've all had tests like that).

chichiphin

@inthewoods23 Dude I agree - somewhere on the bump message boards there should be a What does a Positive OPK look like? I actually almost posted in the preg test thread just for opinions on this! 

holly321

@chichiphin from what I remember from my molar pregnancy group, you can O with 50 HCG.

chichiphin

oh wow, O could happen with HCG that high still? thanks @holly321. I'll mark in the chart then. 

**edit words

holly321

Tw @chichiphin I am trying to verify that my I am remembering correctly, but I unjoined all my molar support groups..... (it was making things too real). But, usually your period starts when your HCG reaches 0, so it makes since you could ovulate before a negative results.
and, from personal experience.  After my 2nd trimester loss, since it was a d&c and we were going to wait a few months, we didn’t check my levels.  2 weeks later, we accidentally had unprotected sex, right as I think I ovulated (symptoms and positive Opk, etc). 2 weeks later, HCG test was positive, a week later I was bleeding bad, so we are not sure, but i think  I had a CP, or the other scenario is I still had HCG in my system from my loss.


eta, I had a Tennessee tea, so I hope that all made sense.  Now to go back to no alcohol in the TWW!

m6agua

@chichiphin I ovulated after my loss before my blood test was negative. The blood test came back negative two days later so I am guessing my number was pretty low. I also ovulated around the same time as normal.

ruby696

@chichiphin I had a blazing positive OPK with hCG around 27. Not sure if I was actually ovulating or if the OPK was reacting to the hCG.

ETA: OPK's also react to hCG, in case no one else has already said that.

chichiphin

Thank you everyone for your input! I'll be interested to see if AF comes after my normal LP time or not now. 

keikilove

@chichiphin I have had both experiences. *TW for loss & PG* After my late loss (delivery, no D&E, not sure if that affects anything) I still had positive HCG strip tests when I very clearly ovulated 2 weeks later. Also, after being on these boards awhile I learned that OPKs also pick up HCG so I use those to test every time I do an HPT strip too. That’s how I confirmed my last PG before loss: an incredibly faint HCG strip, barely perceptible, and a very strong OPK. 

ETA: I also agree with the thread for “What does a positive OPK look like?” Not only would it be helpful to all of us, but when my husband sneaked one of my positive OPKs during the Fertile Week and wrote “Horny” on it and handed it to me saying “This test is very positive” I soooo wanted to show the joke because words just don’t do it justice. 

b_1029

+1 for the positive opk thread. Now that I’m in it for the long haul and trying to be cost conscious, I switched from the clear blue digital to the easy @ home strips and I can never tell unless it’s incredibly obvious

keikilove

@b_1029 You may already be aware of this (and I hope it’s not annoying to anyone that I’ve already mentioned these a couple times) but here are a couple of free resources for automatically reading your OPKs: Both Femometer & Premom apps have you take a pic of your strip & then immediately tell you the number/level of hormone. As you go through the first cycle it learns your normal levels and will clearly indicate Low, High, and Peak when you get there. Premom seems to have a bit higher threshold than Femometer, meaning you might get a 73 on Femometer that says “High” and Premom says it’s a 69 and “Low”. Picture of both apps in Spoiler:

kbrown2385

@keikilove @b_1029 easy@home also has an app that does the same. I use that for mine

kerco925

@chichiphin *TW*   When I had my loss, I had (unconfirmed) retained tissue and still had a positive test several months later.  So naturally, I spent hours researching whether or not you can O with HCG in your system.  There was a lot of conflicting information, but most of what I read said you can actually O with low levels of HCG.  I dont know if I was ovulating at the time since I wasnt temping, but I did use opks and they were positive close to the middle of my cycle....  so I might have been. 

brookert615

@b_1029 I love SmileReader OPKs! There’s an app that reads only their test strips but they’re super cheap on amazon. You just open the app and take a picture of the test! It even has a timer on it! I took them the same time as my expensive Clearblue ones and I had the same high and peak days! 

madcouplewithabox

Saw the convo you guys were having on OPKs. I can’t believe there is an App to help discern!  My mind is blown. 

I always try to have something new to look forward to and try next cycle if the current one doesn’t work... and I’m so excited to try this one!!

chichiphin

Ah @keikilove totally forgot femometer has one. Just uploaded the pic and got a peak. 

brookert615

Hey ladies! Happy weekend! Would it be possible to get some eyes on my chart? I should’ve put it as my sig last month because go home FF, you’re drunk lol. I have been testing with OPKs and I don’t get how I could have O’ed when I had two negative OPKs in the days prior? I also used the temp converter for the two days I took my temp an hour later. One I think was CD7 and the other was CD19. I’m still not convinced that I even O’ed!

Edit! Forgot spoiler! 😊

kagesstarshroom

@brookert615 OPKs are super finicky, and unless you're testing every X* hours, you could def. miss the flair up of whatever it's testing for. Sooo for example, and it's not the best example, but my current chart (see the weekend TWW if you want?) has two negative OPKs, then a day I failed to test which is the day FF thinks I O'd, followed by two positive OPKS? Like, what. I think that your temp shift, though, confirms O & I'd say you're most likely in the luteal phase now--even w/ that one temp like a stitch below the coverline, the coverline is just there to, like, show that a shift has occurred. If your recent temps weren't consistently higher, I'd agree it's questionable you O'd, but I realllllly do think the temps confirm it. Trust your temps! Hope this helps. ^_~*

*IDK what the # of hours is here, but it's not 24. So I used "X." Like math.

keikilove

@brookert615 I'm taking a stab at this but please bear in mind I'm using my own personal experience--I'm no expert at this.    Also, remind me if you have PCOS?  If so my theories could be straight out the window.

To me, it looks like you O-ed on CD14 or 15. (This is based on my own experience of O-ing on the day of or after the Peak.)  If it was CD14 your 3 high temps aren't exactly in a row, but would confirm O by higher temps on CD 15, 16, & 18.  Or if O on CD 15, the temps confirm it on CD16, 18, & 20.

Are you tracking Cervical Position?  That's always the clincher for me when I'm confused by an up-and-down temp rise.  Either way (our theories or FF) you & SO get in enough sexy time to make your timing good.

ETA: I always ignore FF's coverline.  It doesn't even line up mathematically half the time, only visually. If you did O around CD14-15, your coverline should be hanging out around 97.2.

brookert615

@kagesstarshroom You are an absolute angel!!! Thank you so much!!!

@keikilove You are the best! Thanks for clarifying!!! I didn’t do CP this month and I’m kicking myself for it! Also yes I do have PCOS! But I’ve been on Metformin for a while.

Edit: tags!

ruby696

Does anyone understand why FF says temps are trending upwards when they clearly are not? My last two temps have gone down (but still above cover line). I can't figure out why FF says that unless it's 1) drunk or 2) there's some math/graph thing going on that I don't understand. I read what I could find in the Docs section, but couldn't find an answer.