Chart stalk/ questions October

holly321

sorry for lack of gif, eithere my phone or I am being stupid, I can’t download one!

holly321

Do you agree with when I Oed?  According to ff, AF is 3 days late. BFN yesterday 

chichiphin

I gotcha @holly321

marebear15

@holly321 - I'd agree with FF because of that temp rise and the spotting. It might be cd17? Did you test with a cheapie or a FRER?

prpl11butterfly

@holly321 that temp rise is (imo) indicative of O for 16. 

Sparty18

@holly321 I could make an argument for 16 or 18.  I could also make an argument for it being an an-o cycle... Is it typical for you to not have an obvious temp shift throughout your LP?  Hope you have an answer soon regardless!

holly321

@sparty18 i could literally see all those scenarios.  I looked at all my previous charts.  It’s 50/50 if the temp shift is super obvious. I have some super spikey charts, some triphasic, some that looks more like this one.   Now, I generally am a crappy sleeper, waking 2-3 times a night and this cycle I actually slept very well, with some nights having no wake ups, so maybe that is contributing to the more even temps.

@marebear15 it was a dollar store cheapie.  Which, I know can have super low detection.  

LJMoon6

Has anyone tested the ph of their cm before? Early fffc: I stole some advanced ph strips from work and have been testing every day this week. It's been steady at a 4, which I think is normal. I figured once I got close to O then it would increase closer to 7 but it hasn't. I got a positive OPK today but my ph is still a 4... From what I've read sperm can only live for a couple hours at that acidic of a ph.
Has anyone else tested theirs and what results did you get? Or does anyone have more/better information about this? Is it worth mentioning to my RE at my appointment tomorrow? 

chichiphin

@LJMoon6 google tells me that pH balance temporarily changes during sex. But I’m sure your RE can give a more reliable answer.

From https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20130903005246/en/Feminine-Health-101-Maintaining-Healthy-pH-Balance

“Yet women experience many of the triggers for elevated pH on a regular basis:

1. Period – The pH of blood is 7.4, which is much more alkaline than normal vaginal pH (3.5 - 4.5). This can lead to elevated pH, especially during a heavy or lengthy period.

2. Sex – Intercourse can also change vaginal pH. Semen has a pH of 7.1 to 8 and can elevate pH.”

LJMoon6

@chichiphin Ya I've read that too. But it's my understanding that your ph should rise during FW. Not because it's being diluted with sperm but because of the same hormone change that causes EWCM. My biggest problem is that I feel like our efforts are wasted during the FW. If all the sperm are dying in a couple hours anyways because my cm is too acidic, what's the point. 

mamanbebe

@ljmoon6 I don't know if this is helpful at all, but I've heard acidic foods can affect the cm ph. I want to say that dairy, wheat, gluten, beef (except grass fed), pork, tomatoes, spinach, alcohol, coffee, sugar and processed foods were some standouts from the list I had been given. It's a really depressing and I have a hard time avoiding all of it. 

nnaelilak

Would you go based off a positive opk and ew cm or tempatures that may not be accurate due to irregular sleep (and a possibly loose armband on my tempdrop until cd21 when I tightened it)?

I'm having a really hard time determining my shift this month... My sleep has been so crazy, I've been up until 5am some nights, last night I went to bed at 9pm only to be awake from midnight until 4am, etc. I was also sick for the first part of my cycle (days 5-9 I was really sick, but I really just started feeling better this week) I'm thinking I should go based off ew cm and opk, but wondering what others think.. 

emmasemm

@ljmoon6 so I had quite a conversation with our embryologist about this last week actually...
She said that as the job of the CM is to basically strip the initial coating from the sperm so you do need a certain degree of acidity otherwise they can’t penetrate the egg when they reach it.
More important from her view was then the environment inside the uterus and Fallopian tubes as this is where the sperm “hang out” waiting for the egg, and where they can survive for several days in the right conditions.
She was also explaining of course then how they basically in the lab for both IUI and IVF “wash” the sperm in a slightly acidic solution to manually do the job that the CM does.
We didn’t talk specific values though.
and I guess if you were testing your CM at home it might not be the value of when it is right up close to your cervix “untouched”? Or you might have contaminated it with whatever you fished it out with??? (Ok probably a bit TMI) 

(the reason we had the conversation was because when they “washed” DH’s this time basically they didn’t lose that protective coating properly... so we went for ICSI where they manually make sure the sperm are “stripped” one by one... you can imagine the thoughts of the sperm doing a strip tease...  )

kiki047

@nnaelilak the only real way to tell if you actually ovulated is by tracking your BBT after the fact. EWCM and OPKs are good indicators of possible impending O but it’s your temperature that’ll confirm. I am assuming your huge temp spike today is mostly from your interrupted sleep last night - did you get a good 3 hours before you took your temp around your usual time? I’d hang tight and see how it trends over the next few days. I’d be inclined to agree with FF on CD20 or 21.

nnaelilak

@kiki047 I haven't figured out how to tell when temp drop actually takes my temp with a time stamp, it says NA in Ovuview (the app they import to) but from my understanding  it won't take your temp without 3 hours of sleep

kiki047

@nnaelilak Oh right, sorry I forgot you use the Tempdrop. I'm not super familiar with how that works. Does it take an average of your temps throughout the night or does it just take one reading in the morning after a period of rest? Either way, if you were restless last night today's temp may or may not be an outlier. Hopefully you can get a good sleep tonight and tomorrow should be able to give you a better picture of where you're at. 

nnaelilak

@kiki047 it uses an algorithm of some kind, so I'm thinking it's more of an average, and it will actually go back and update past temps up to 3 days before I think. It did update cd23 and I'm inclined to toss cd8 just because I'm pretty confident my armband was loose that night. Either way, it's looking like O was on cd7 or 8. Definitely got better sleep last night! Well, for me haha

Chart with cd8 disregarded (with it there, ff moved O to cd8) 

LJMoon6

@mamanbebe I've heard that too. The food you eat greatly impacts your ph. I was actually just talking about this with my aunt who is a dietitian. 

@emmasemm Thank you for that wonderful response. That was exactly what I was looking for. First hand knowledge from your RE/embryologist. And it makes complete sense. All of it. Thank you. Put the ph strips down!

kiki047

@nnaelilak theere we go, that looks more like it. That's confusing that it'll update it, but I suppose it's good that the algorithm adjusts itself. In this case yes, CD19 looks more accurate. 

nnaelilak

@kiki047 awesome! Thanks for your help!! 

chichiphin

So I'm not sure where to put this... so here? 

I just got done with my new pt appt with my doc WHO I LOVE!! She was caring, understanding, etc etc. So she is concerned about the 9 day LP, along with my weird AFs the past 2 cycles. She has a ton of lab work ordered as she is concerned about potential issues with ovulation or egg quality, but I was so over the moon to get any testing, I didn't ask exactly what they'll test. She specifically mentioned thyroid, but also mentioned testing that could detect if ovulation happened. I have to get the blood work drawn after I get a poss OPK + temps confirm. 

For those who have gone through this, what do you suspect she is testing for? I realize I could lurk the IF threats or TTC, but I'm behind on acronyms etc. She did mention she is hoping to see if clomid is appropriate for the very next cycle. 

marebear15

@chichiphin - I don't have any answers for your questions, but I'm thrilled that you found a doctor that is listening to your concerns.

brookert615

@chichiphin It's very possible she ordered a full thyroid panel but most of the time TSH should indicate something. I've only experienced low thyroid levels but it did interfere with my cycles and everything. The good news is you have a good doctor! It took a little while for my levels to regulate but now they're rock solid with medication/diet. Not sure if that helps! 

lulu1180

@chichiphin If she's testing for ovulation, she's likely going to test your progesterone.  If that's the case, that specific test should be done on 7 DPO because otherwise it won't tell you anything.  In addition, if she's testing egg quality, she would test AMH and FSH.  AMH can be done any time during the cycle but FSH should be done between CD 2-4.  

Is the 9 day LP just the past 2 cycles or has it been that short since you've been TTC?

chichiphin

@lulu1180 okay - that makes sense because she said on a perfect cycle, they'd do the test on CD21. So Maybe I'll go in 7 DPO per my OPKs and temp. and yes, I have had this short LP since TTC. The last 2 AFs were just weird bc of extreme pain but almost no bleeding. **edited for clarity**

tamalahoops

@chichiphin when she says they want to test to see if you ovulated, she likely is testing for progesterone. Low progesterone during your LP can be indicative of ovulatory dysfunction. Its good that shes having you come in after a positive opk, sometimes docs have a tendency to test blindly on day 21. 

When you get your labs I'd be happy to answer any questions on this thread or by private message!

lulu1180

@chichiphin There's a grad who had an LP deficiency (paging @adirat) if you have any questions, she is a good resource.  Also, when you get your results, please feel free to come ask questions in the IF thread, the ladies there are amazing!  And if you're not quite ready to jump in there yet, even for questions, you're always welcome to take @tamalahoops up on her offer and just PM her.

chichiphin

@lulu1180 this sounds so weird saying - but thank you for inviting me over to IF to ask Q's after I get my results. I really feel silly saying that, but I'm only 6 mo in to this journey so I don't want to barge in where it isn't appropriate. 
@tamalahoops I so so appreciate your offer to review after I get my results and I may take you up on this. 

tamalahoops

@chichiphin the testing phase is so scary no matter what. Good luck!

lulu1180

@chichiphin The amount of time that you've been trying doesn't matter in the IF thread; in fact, you'll notice our check-in doesn't include that anywhere.  We won't tell you that you don't belong there and we definitely don't play the pain olympics there.  I'm glad that your new doctor has ordered testing, the short LP is definitely concerning.  Also, I understand being hesitant to join in the IF thread; I didn't move over there until about 4-6 months after I finished my testing.  

chichiphin

@lulu1180 got it. I def feel more comfortable with checking in there once I have my results. thanks again. 

kiki047

@chichiphin Nothing constructive to add but so glad your experience with your new doc was positive and that she's going to run the tests for you!!  

holly321

When would/should you be concerned with mid cycle spotting?  I noticed that I spot occasionally when I ovulate, but I had spotting yesterday.  I am only on cd 9 or 10, and opk is not positive yet.  It is getting darker, and I had a migraine yesterday, so maybe it was from a hormone fluctuation?  

I seriously don’t want to call the doctor, lol, it has only been like a month since my last emergency visit. 

littleredm

@chichiphin I think others have answered your questions but I just want to say that I'm so happy that you've found a doctor that you love and is listening to you! I hope you're able to get some answers!

chichiphin

@holly321 do you have a patient portal where you could send a message instead? Sometimes I do that when I feel like it’s not incredibly urgent but should be documented 

edit - I didn’t really address the q. So I had break thru bleeding on oral contraceptives and my doc at the time said that can happen on oral BC but made it seem like it should not be happening in a normal cycle. 

marebear15

Need some help. My sister is getting her hormones tested (not for TTC but for acne) and wants to know what numbers are good. I'm not sure what all they are testing, estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone maybe? She getting them tested on CD3.

mamanbebe

I do not know the application of RIA (radioimmunoassay) and DPC (Diagnostic Products Corporation) but I pulled these from an old endocrine lab sheet that I have in front of me. The first number is RIA and second is DPC for each phase, except testosterone. 

Estradiol:
Follicular: 30-100 (RIA); ND-84 (DPC)
Late Follicular: 100-400; ND-160
Luteal: 50-150; 27-246

Progesterone: 
Follicular: 0.34-0.75; ND-1.13
Luteal: 1-35; 0.95-21

Testosterone: 3.0-10.0

elle-0409

This month is my first time temping, and I am using an iProven BBT thermometer. It has been working fine, but this morning instead of the normal series of beeps, it sounded like a computer was being strangled and then I had a beep followed by a temperature reading. I took my temperature again right away (although I moved around a little bit) and it gave me the normal series of beeps with a different temperature. I tried to Google what that sound could have been, but found nothing. The first temperature says 96.92 and the second says 97.07. Should I use the higher one with the normal beeps? Split the difference? Admit defeat and eat the entire contents of my refrigerator? Thanks! (Chart in spoiler with the higher 97.07 reading.)

emmasemm

@elle-0409 First of all, eating the entire content of the fridge is a great solution 
What I would do is note the first temp in the notes and see when you get close to O if changing it dramatically chang3s your coverline. Sometimes these things just happen. Don’t thing the thermometer robots are going to take over any time soon... 

elle-0409

@emmasemm Thank you! We can't let the thermometer robots win!

kgg2241

Does anyone have suggestions for YouTube channels or apps that guide you through meditation/ self-love? Fertility-related or not. I want to try some this week, but there are so many it is a bit overwhelming. Any suggestions would be appreciated.