Something I understood better with my second pregnancy is that a birth plan is not so much a “contract of how it needs to go” as it is learning about all the different options and becoming educated on the different ways to birth...the only predictable thing about birth is that it’s unpredictable, but that doesn’t mean that going in blind is better than having a couple general goals and working to prepare for those goals as best as you can. If you are using a birth plan to “fight the system” or to “tell the nurses how to do their jobs”, there’s a pretty good chance you are going into birth with a lot of unresolved fears/doubts, which is not going to make it easier to achieve your goals. And a goal doesn’t have to be “all natural” or even “no csection ever”....but “I would like to be told my options and make the decision based on what I feel comfortable with” “I have prepared by x,y,z but will be comfortable following the path my birth takes as long as I am included in the decisions being made”. Sometimes the thing women have more trauma over isn’t the actual hole the baby comes out of, it’s how she’s treated through the process....it makes me sad to hear when people say things like “I wish I knew” or “the doctor/nurse/person kept suggesting it until I gave in, and that’s when it all went downhill”. Respect and dignity go a long way into making an experience good or bad, regardless of the path a baby takes to be born.
Being well informed is way more important that a birth plan. I knew what I wanted my births to look like. But my first I was not well informed and I let them walk all over me.
My second and third I had done so much research. I was extremely well informed. I knew what I wanted in any case and any twist or turn.
With th my second I had a midwife and so she knew exactly what I wanted.
With my third i was back at the mercy mercy of a hospital and a rotating Dr system with no ability to build a relationship with who would be on for delivery.
I made my wants and wishes she’s well known at appointments, yet I’m not sure the info was passed along.
When I went in to deliver the nurse asked if I had a birth plan. I told her “No, the only thing I want is to be asked permission and be allowed informed consent for anything and everything regardless of how little for both myself and my baby.”
She told me that was the best plan ever, and they asked for *every.little.thing* to the point that it almost got annoying and it was perfect. When things went a little sideways they still continued to ask me everything they could, starting by giving me all the options and outcomes before she came so I could agree to them before it became emergent with no time to consent. And then after when we were separated briefly they came and got my permission for everything extra once she was stabilized. It was a small request but it gave me control while still letting them do their jobs when and how they needed to.
@maggiemadeit@mappowell@Lbloom I had planned for a VBAC for my second but ending up with a RCS after becoming a week overdue. It was night and day compared to my Emergency CSection. I went in showered, with a bit of makeup and felt amazing right after. Recovery was better and it wasn't the nightmare I had remembered from my first. Naïvely, I was hoping for a VBA2C this time but after doing my proper research I know that another RCS is really my only option. I won't be as disappointed as the first two times knowing how well the RCS can go.
@shrub I never had an emergency C, but was really happy with how both of my c-sections went and will be having a RCS for this final baby. They're certainly not for everyone - and I respect the hell out of VBAC mamas - but I had really positive c-section experiences and wouldn't change it for the world!
*TW* - Loss Mentioned There have been a lot of good suggestions to this discussion relating to everything I would have said in relation to birth, breastfeeding, early postpartum months, even lip/tongue ties. There is one thing that hasn't been said that I am going to add now that I sorely wish I would have known with my first pregnancy. I was going to comment as we get further along in our pregnancies, but since education is the topic, I'm going to weigh in.
I wish I had known with my first pregnancy that doing "daily kick counts" is not paranoia and can actually save a life. If I had known that, my oldest might be here today.
It had been mentioned briefly on my BMB at the time but I just blew it off as paranoia. Stillbirth at term doesn't happen that much anymore, right? And my pregnancy was textbook healthy.
Oh if only I would have known. I'm not saying this to scare anybody and not a lot of people talk about this because they don't want to scare moms and it's taboo. The stillbirth community is working to fight this stigma. I'm saying all of this simply to be an advocate for information. The more you know, the better outcome you may have. And as I stated earlier, I will be bringing up this topic of "kick-counting" as we all get further along. If, however, you want to start looking up info now, here is a good place to start; https://www.countthekicks.org/
Not baby related but still something I wish I would have known. I wish I would have known how much sex hurts the first time after baby. Waited until my 6 week check-up, everything was cleared by the Dr, and DH was all too eager to jump back into it. Ladies! Make sure to communicate with your spouses/SO. It hurt his feelings when I made him stop but it HURT so bad and felt so dry, even using lube. And it's probably not the same experience for everyone but just be prepared for it to be different the first few times.
@Lbloom I am so sorry for your loss, and thank you for that really important reminder. I hope you will continue to bring this up and educate all of us on this important topic.
I read your other post and I just want you to know that sharing this with us does not make you a Debbie Downer. I personally really appreciate you looking out for all of us and sharing your experience in an honest way. Hugs to you.
This is such a good thread, I seriously hope the FTM's read it because there is so much truth in here. I didn't read every single post, but I agree with A LOT of what I did read (pregnancy, birth plan, breastfeeding, omg breastfeeding...).
Now that my daughter is approaching 2, I wish I would have known that your love just continues to grow EXPONENTIALLY every day. I am not a baby person, and having a baby didn't change that, but I obviously still loved my daughter during that phase, but once she got more of a personality, could talk, understood things more, etc. I just can't express how much your heart grows. The love becomes palpable. I'm sure plenty of people feel this way before I did, but I just want to share that it's ok if it takes you a minute! I also wish I would have known how adorable they are after the baby phase ends because I always pictured toddlers as snotty (literal and figurative), grimy little creatures who just throw tantrums, and even though that's very true, there is also a whole other side that is just so enjoyable. They are hilarious.
I also wish someone would have told me to just bite the bullet and go see someone about PPA when I first noticed it at 4 months. It affected my relationship with my daughter for a period of time, and is a regret I'll probably carry with me forever. I know better this time.
Also, weaning!! I wish someone would have told me how hard weaning is! Almost 22 months and I just have no idea how to get her off the boob!
I think the biggest thing STM's carry with them through another pregnancy/parenthood is perspective. You now have the ability to understand that every phase ends eventually, and even though it might feel like it lasts forever in the moment, you WILL get through it.
@canadamommy I love that birth plan! My first I was very well informed due to a best friend who had a traumatizing first birth. I had a MW, Doula, etc. but my labor was LOOOONG (like 2 days...) and at some point I stopped progressing and was exhausted, so things had to happen that weren't necessarily part of my birth plan, BUT because I was informed, and able to give consent, it's not a regret I carry with me. This time around I have generally the same birth plan I did before, but I think when the nurse asks, I will tell her something along the same lines as you did. That's really what it's all about and it's a shame we have to ask for that!
You may not instantly fall in love with your baby and that’s ok. It’s also very possible your husband might not fall in love. This is a new relationship that you have to build from the ground up and that can take time. And the whole newborn thing is a surreal and overwhelming experience. As long as their needs are met it’s ok to wait for that bond to develop.
DD1: June '16 DD2: March ‘19 :::: Married since 2011 :::: USN Wife ::::
On the flip side, your husband may fall in love with your kid instantly, and you may have to realize that you are no longer the #1 woman in his life.
In the throes of PP hormones, as my daughter and I were both wailing, I realized he will always go to her first. That is how it should be, in my opinion, but still not an easy lesson to learn, especially when you are super hormonal.
This may be a unique situation, as my husband did skin to skin and got to bond with my daughter long before I did, but I thought I would share the perspective in case it resonates with anyone else.
I agree with the above and @peacebubblebaby. What it comes down to, I think, is you have to trust your providers.
I had barely anything of a birth plan, and that's because I completely trusted my midwives and that if they said I needed to go to the hospital, I actually needed to go to the hospital. Or if they said I needed x intervention, I actually needed it. It is so so SO important that you find a provider you trust. Because if you don't, all the birth plans in the world and all the "my birth plan is I just want to be informed and told my options and give my permission to things" won't do a lick of good.
And trust in provider doesn’t just mean believing that all providers know more than you do and this listen to them....the trust and respect should be mutual....they should be completely cheering you on and excited about how you want to do your birth, and prepared to help you make that a reality....so that if things go a different path, you can know that they are only suggesting it because this is truly what’s needed and not something that they tend to do to everyone out of ease.
With my first I wish that I had just trusted my body more and had the nerve to say no to my OB when she bullied me into an induction at 4 days past due with absolutely no medical need for one. Instead I had a 41 hour miserable labor and a first failed induction attempt all because I suspect she was going on vacation for the weekend. I never did get answers because when I called to schedule my 6 wk follow-up she had been "Let go" from the practice and when I went in for my followup the doctor I saw "Couldn't find my file".
With my second I wish I HAD NOT had my membranes swept. It may work great for some but for me I had bleeding within 30 min and uncomfortable non productive contractions for the entire day before I went into labor. Next time I prefer to just wait it out. Especially now that I know my body just cooks babies at least 4 days late.
I agree that I wish someone had clued me into lipase issues before I dumped hundreds of ounces of frozen breastmilk down the drain. If your milk has too much lipase it causes it to sour unless you scald it on the stove. Babies don't like sour milk.
What @lucysmom2016 said! FTM here and I’m incredibly grateful to each of you for sharing your experiences, tips, and knowledge. I’m certain I’ll be referring back to this tread throughout my pregnancy and beyond. Thank you and much appreciated!
1. Download an app for your phone to track babies feeds (breastfed or formula fed), diapers wet & dirty, and # of hours sleeping before you have the baby. These are questions you will get a lot in the beginning especially. If you have an app it’s way easier thank writing it all down. I used one called “baby tracker”.
2. If you plan to breastfeed when you feed your baby on one side (at least for me) the other side would leak or let down. This is why it’s important to have breastpads because it will soak the other breastpad depending on how full you are. Some women even use a “haakaa” it’s a handheld pump to catch the milk that is letting down.
I can’t wait to try the haakaa, it’s top of my “oh this is shiny and new, I need it” list. Baby gear evolves in all of 3-4 years, all my stuff is 7 years old and way out of date. I’m too stingy to splurge on all new stuff, but I can swing for a haakaa.
@peacebubblebaby I know me too! Especially for at the end of breastfeeding when I was barely pumping enough at work for the next day. I wish I had “caught” my early letdown and created more of a freezer stash in the beginning.
@ashley14598 I used the sprout baby app and it was great. It also has a section for tracking medicine, which is good when you're trying to remember when you gave the last dose. But it was especially good for nursing, it times how long you're nursing on each side and then the main screen tells you how long it's been since you nursed (which, for FTM's, is counted from the time you started nursing not finished nursing. In the beginning it feels like you get a 30 minute break before you're nursing again)
DD1: June '16 DD2: March ‘19 :::: Married since 2011 :::: USN Wife ::::
I’m so impressed with you ladies keeping track of everything! So organized! I kept a notebook for exactly 10 days, and once we were done with formula supplementing I just winged it. Maybe this time I will get one of these apps you all have suggested.
@maggiemadeit I really only used the nursing, sleep and medicine trackers, and it was nice to take keeping track of when I fed last off my mind. It was also nice to look back and see how DD's eat, play, sleep pattern changed over time so I could better plan errands/visitors without having to put her on a schedule.
DD1: June '16 DD2: March ‘19 :::: Married since 2011 :::: USN Wife ::::
We only officially tracked for a day, and I didn't even do it, haha. My midwives definitely wanted us to for that first 24 hours, including temping our baby regularly. My H was in charge of that because I barely even remember getting the instructions. We tracked on paper.
Personally, I have having lots of extraneous apps on my phone, so I would never use one for something like this.
To each their own, but personally I don't think it's important to keep track unless it's that first day or two (which isn't really relevant for hospital births. I left my birth center about four hours after birth, but you typically have to stay for at least 24 hours after a normal hospital birth) or you're specifically noticing issues.
Yeah, I don’t track either. I count diapers (which is easy because I cloth diaper, so I count them when they come out of the dryer), and 24 hours before a doctor appointment I try to take note of the answers they want.
@peacebubblebaby@lovesclimbing I completely agree with you about trusting your providers because the respect is mutual. You have to be treated like a client, not a sick patient who needs a cure.
My last pregnancy was a nightmare of scary symptoms with a super scary “specialist” who was already discussing induction before my due date when I was only 7 months along. I just knew there was no chance of an intervention-free birth if I stayed with her. I actually moved across the country at the start of my 9th month in order to be back home, where I was lucky to find a wonderful doctor to work with my aunty/midwife. I went 10 days past due date, just like with my first baby. This second labor was so easy I was shocked. Baby was born within minutes of arriving at the hospital. We left 5 hours later. That never would’ve happened with my previous provider. Trust yourself & your instincts, & shop around until you find a provider you trust.
I so agree with finding a provider you trust. I started my first pregnancy with an OB who I liked fine enough, but his office was a baby factory and the hospital where he delivered had very strict policies about how long you could be in labor before they'd make you have a c-section (24 hours after your water breaks is their absolute limit). Their c-section rate was crazy high, so I switched to a midwives practice that was based in a hospital, and I'm positive I would have ended up with a c-section had I not switched. My water broke before I was in labor and it took 42 hours before I delivered. They monitored me and baby for infection and sent my placenta to pathology after I delivered to make sure that they hadn't missed anything, but me and my little boy were both fine - we just needed the extra time. I'm now back at my original OB for my first few appointments because the midwives practice is so backed up they couldn't get me in until September. He keeps trying to convince me to stay with them. No way dude.
Let's see what else - I don't think everyone needs to track, but if your milk is taking a while to come in it can be helpful to track diapers. I was so tired I couldn't remember that kind of stuff but it's really important in those early days. Also, if you plan to breastfeed, find a lactation consultant who can come to your house the day after you get home. I really struggled after we got home and I wish I had one come sooner. You may not end up needed it, but having the contact information on hand before you are tearing your hair out at home and worried about your baby is really helpful.
I so agree with finding a provider you trust. I started my first pregnancy with an OB who I liked fine enough, but his office was a baby factory and the hospital where he delivered had very strict policies about how long you could be in labor before they'd make you have a c-section (24 hours after your water breaks is their absolute limit). Their c-section rate was crazy high, so I switched to a midwives practice that was based in a hospital, and I'm positive I would have ended up with a c-section had I not switched. My water broke before I was in labor and it took 42 hours before I delivered. They monitored me and baby for infection and sent my placenta to pathology after I delivered to make sure that they hadn't missed anything, but me and my little boy were both fine - we just needed the extra time. I'm now back at my original OB for my first few appointments because the midwives practice is so backed up they couldn't get me in until September. He keeps trying to convince me to stay with them. No way dude.
>snip<
Have you told him why? That you won't switch back because you had a perfectly fine and safe vaginal delivery 42 hours post water breaking, and he wouldn't allow that? I kind of really want you to just so I can hear his response, lol! I want @keikilove to write her former provider an email too!
@lovesclimbing I actually was planning to ask him at my next appointment what the policy was if my water broke before I was in labor. The OB himself seemed pretty reasonable, but there was no guarantee that I'd get him. And from everything I read about that particular hospital, they would've cut me open at that 24 hour mark.
Adding on to what others have said about mutual respect and trust in your doctor - if you are super uncomfortable with your doctor, it is ok to switch! I roughed it out with a terrible doctor my first pregnancy. At first I thought I was being sensitive or hormonal but it continued through my whole pregnancy and by the time I realized how bad she was for me I thought it was too late to switch. I was afraid of getting someone worse. In retrospect, I knew after the first visit that she was a bad fit and I really wish I had found someone else.
@peacebubblebaby I had to Google haakaa because I didn't recognize the name, but I have one of those! Can confirm they are awesome for catching let down in the breast you don't use while nursing. I had some plastic ones as well made Lanisoh I think the soft shells. I definitely preferred the haakaa because of the suction aspect. You'd be surprised how much letdown milk you can catch!
Something I wish I’d known was that even if you lose all the baby weight, your body still changes shape and may result in different sizing. I was so pissed after losing the pregnancy weight and then some, that my skinny pants I’d been saving for a *long time* had no hope of closing because my hips were just wider. Similar problems with a lot of non-flowy tops.
Me: 30 DH: 31 Married: 2012 BFP #1 Sept 2014, MMC Dec 2014 | BFP #2 May 2015, DD Jan 2016 | BFP #3 May 2017, MC July 2017 | BFP #4 Jan 2018, MC Feb 2018 | BFP #5 July 2018, fingers crossed
@ My feet are 1/2 a size bigger which means none of the shoes in my huge collection of sz 7 flats fit anymore! And this is over 2 years after giving birth. I hope my feet don't grow again this time!
How did it not occur to me until now that my feet might grow with this pregnancy too?!? Haha I was under the delusion that wasn’t a factor again. Ug. My feet have always been a little different size but after pregnancy they are a full half size (plus) different. Makes it very tough to find a comfortable pair....maybe this time I can at least hope for them to even out!
Me: 30 DH: 31 Married: 2012 BFP #1 Sept 2014, MMC Dec 2014 | BFP #2 May 2015, DD Jan 2016 | BFP #3 May 2017, MC July 2017 | BFP #4 Jan 2018, MC Feb 2018 | BFP #5 July 2018, fingers crossed
I wear an 11 in women's and my mom's friend always said she'd pray my feet wouldn't grow...luckily her prayers worked for the first! Let's hope they carry over
@laur84ns@mamakate1616@dtspmama I had to get rid of 98% of my shoes after my last pregnancy because I went from a 7 to an 8 (depending on the shoe). If my feet grow again this time around I am going hurt someone...probably my MIL who 2 years later still doesn´t believe that women´s feet grow during pregnancy.
I just thought of one today. I remember being really confused when my butt disappeared after my daughter was born. It was never anything to write home about, but it was flat as a pancake after I gave birth. Turns out that this is one of the first/best fat stores that your body uses to make breast milk.
Re: Things I wish I had known...
Being well informed is way more important that a birth plan. I knew what I wanted my births to look like. But my first I was not well informed and I let them walk all over me.
My second and third I had done so much research. I was extremely well informed. I knew what I wanted in any case and any twist or turn.
With th my second I had a midwife and so she knew exactly what I wanted.
With my third i was back at the mercy mercy of a hospital and a rotating Dr system with no ability to build a relationship with who would be on for delivery.
I made my wants and wishes she’s well known at appointments, yet I’m not sure the info was passed along.
When I went in to deliver the nurse asked if I had a birth plan. I told her “No, the only thing I want is to be asked permission and be allowed informed consent for anything and everything regardless of how little for both myself and my baby.”
She told me that was the best plan ever, and they asked for *every.little.thing* to the point that it almost got annoying and it was perfect. When things went a little sideways they still continued to ask me everything they could, starting by giving me all the options and outcomes before she came so I could agree to them before it became emergent with no time to consent. And then after when we were separated briefly they came and got my permission for everything extra once she was stabilized. It was a small request but it gave me control while still letting them do their jobs when and how they needed to.
Naïvely, I was hoping for a VBA2C this time but after doing my proper research I know that another RCS is really my only option. I won't be as disappointed as the first two times knowing how well the RCS can go.
There have been a lot of good suggestions to this discussion relating to everything I would have said in relation to birth, breastfeeding, early postpartum months, even lip/tongue ties. There is one thing that hasn't been said that I am going to add now that I sorely wish I would have known with my first pregnancy. I was going to comment as we get further along in our pregnancies, but since education is the topic, I'm going to weigh in.
I wish I had known with my first pregnancy that doing "daily kick counts" is not paranoia and can actually save a life. If I had known that, my oldest might be here today.
It had been mentioned briefly on my BMB at the time but I just blew it off as paranoia. Stillbirth at term doesn't happen that much anymore, right? And my pregnancy was textbook healthy.
Oh if only I would have known. I'm not saying this to scare anybody and not a lot of people talk about this because they don't want to scare moms and it's taboo. The stillbirth community is working to fight this stigma. I'm saying all of this simply to be an advocate for information. The more you know, the better outcome you may have. And as I stated earlier, I will be bringing up this topic of "kick-counting" as we all get further along. If, however, you want to start looking up info now, here is a good place to start; https://www.countthekicks.org/
[spoiler=TW in signature]
Me: 36, DH 37.
August 2014- 6w MMC
July 2015- CP
PCOS, plus some medical issues that make me high risk.
Our rainbow babies are due 3/21!!!!!
[/spoiler]
I read your other post and I just want you to know that sharing this with us does not make you a Debbie Downer. I personally really appreciate you looking out for all of us and sharing your experience in an honest way. Hugs to you.
Now that my daughter is approaching 2, I wish I would have known that your love just continues to grow EXPONENTIALLY every day. I am not a baby person, and having a baby didn't change that, but I obviously still loved my daughter during that phase, but once she got more of a personality, could talk, understood things more, etc. I just can't express how much your heart grows. The love becomes palpable. I'm sure plenty of people feel this way before I did, but I just want to share that it's ok if it takes you a minute! I also wish I would have known how adorable they are after the baby phase ends because I always pictured toddlers as snotty (literal and figurative), grimy little creatures who just throw tantrums, and even though that's very true, there is also a whole other side that is just so enjoyable. They are hilarious.
I also wish someone would have told me to just bite the bullet and go see someone about PPA when I first noticed it at 4 months. It affected my relationship with my daughter for a period of time, and is a regret I'll probably carry with me forever. I know better this time.
Also, weaning!! I wish someone would have told me how hard weaning is! Almost 22 months and I just have no idea how to get her off the boob!
I think the biggest thing STM's carry with them through another pregnancy/parenthood is perspective. You now have the ability to understand that every phase ends eventually, and even though it might feel like it lasts forever in the moment, you WILL get through it.
In the throes of PP hormones, as my daughter and I were both wailing, I realized he will always go to her first. That is how it should be, in my opinion, but still not an easy lesson to learn, especially when you are super hormonal.
This may be a unique situation, as my husband did skin to skin and got to bond with my daughter long before I did, but I thought I would share the perspective in case it resonates with anyone else.
I had barely anything of a birth plan, and that's because I completely trusted my midwives and that if they said I needed to go to the hospital, I actually needed to go to the hospital. Or if they said I needed x intervention, I actually needed it. It is so so SO important that you find a provider you trust. Because if you don't, all the birth plans in the world and all the "my birth plan is I just want to be informed and told my options and give my permission to things" won't do a lick of good.
With my second I wish I HAD NOT had my membranes swept. It may work great for some but for me I had bleeding within 30 min and uncomfortable non productive contractions for the entire day before I went into labor. Next time I prefer to just wait it out. Especially now that I know my body just cooks babies at least 4 days late.
I agree that I wish someone had clued me into lipase issues before I dumped hundreds of ounces of frozen breastmilk down the drain. If your milk has too much lipase it causes it to sour unless you scald it on the stove. Babies don't like sour milk.
1. Download an app for your phone to track babies feeds (breastfed or formula fed), diapers wet & dirty, and # of hours sleeping before you have the baby. These are questions you will get a lot in the beginning especially. If you have an app it’s way easier thank writing it all down. I used one called “baby tracker”.
2. If you plan to breastfeed when you feed your baby on one side (at least for me) the other side would leak or let down. This is why it’s important to have breastpads because it will soak the other breastpad depending on how full you are. Some women even use a “haakaa” it’s a handheld pump to catch the milk that is letting down.
Personally, I have having lots of extraneous apps on my phone, so I would never use one for something like this.
To each their own, but personally I don't think it's important to keep track unless it's that first day or two (which isn't really relevant for hospital births. I left my birth center about four hours after birth, but you typically have to stay for at least 24 hours after a normal hospital birth) or you're specifically noticing issues.
My last pregnancy was a nightmare of scary symptoms with a super scary “specialist” who was already discussing induction before my due date when I was only 7 months along. I just knew there was no chance of an intervention-free birth if I stayed with her. I actually moved across the country at the start of my 9th month in order to be back home, where I was lucky to find a wonderful doctor to work with my aunty/midwife. I went 10 days past due date, just like with my first baby. This second labor was so easy I was shocked. Baby was born within minutes of arriving at the hospital. We left 5 hours later. That never would’ve happened with my previous provider. Trust yourself & your instincts, & shop around until you find a provider you trust.
Let's see what else - I don't think everyone needs to track, but if your milk is taking a while to come in it can be helpful to track diapers. I was so tired I couldn't remember that kind of stuff but it's really important in those early days. Also, if you plan to breastfeed, find a lactation consultant who can come to your house the day after you get home. I really struggled after we got home and I wish I had one come sooner. You may not end up needed it, but having the contact information on hand before you are tearing your hair out at home and worried about your baby is really helpful.
Gotta love antiquated thinking!
I was so pissed after losing the pregnancy weight and then some, that my skinny pants I’d been saving for a *long time* had no hope of closing because my hips were just wider. Similar problems with a lot of non-flowy tops.
Married: 2012
BFP #1 Sept 2014, MMC Dec 2014 | BFP #2 May 2015, DD Jan 2016
My feet have always been a little different size but after pregnancy they are a full half size (plus) different. Makes it very tough to find a comfortable pair....maybe this time I can at least hope for them to even out!
Married: 2012
BFP #1 Sept 2014, MMC Dec 2014 | BFP #2 May 2015, DD Jan 2016