epidural, revisited

margareth-2

I remember there was a thread about epidurals a while back, but I needed to reopen it since having to put down "The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding" after reading their numerous admonitions against getting an epidural because they claim it adversely affects breastfeeding.  I am a FTM and I am planning on having an epidural.  Yet I also plan on breastfeeding, hopefully for at least the first 9 months!  I had heard great things about that book (and I'm sure there's a lot of merit to it), but I must say I felt judged (already?!) by their approach to epidurals; it was very black and white.  There's still time, so I was wondering how many of you had an epidural and chose to breastfeed, and how it may have affected the experience (or not).  I wonder if there's anyone out there who's had an epidural for one delivery, opted against it for another, and breastfed in both circumstances; in that case there's a chance for more comparison.  But any thoughts are welcome on this issue!

Rhubarb7216

@margareth, also a FTM here so I don't have experience to share, but just had to mention I started reading Breastfeeding Made Simple yesterday and the tone was so preachy that I had to stop reading it! This was not just related to epidurals, but there was one part that made it sound like you're only going to have a successful first breastfeeding experience if you have an unmedicated birth. My hope is to do an unmedicated birth, but I'm still keeping my options open for an epidrural and either way I found the tone offensive. I do have a friend who had an epidural the first time and not the second (and this was actually because baby came too fast not because she didn't want an epidural) and she was equally successful in establishing breastfeeding both times - didn't seem to be be a factor.

satuttle1014

I had an epidural with my 1st and I plan to have one this time. I BF with my 1st but I didn't BF that long because it just wasn't my thing. I will try BF again for a little this time as well. 

Breath_Easy92

@margareth thank you for posting this! I actually quit read that book because I felt like it was stressing me out more than helping. But I would like a few different points of view, maybe that would help.

heatherlynn321

I had an epidural and breastfed DS for 20 months.

Carebella

I've only had one baby and while I was trying to avoid an epidural for many reasons, I ended up getting one and had no trouble breastfeeding. Heck, my 2.5 year old is still nursing. 

Most women can breastfeed without issue, but your best bet no matter how baby arrives is to have some good resources* lined up and ask for help as soon as you have any inclination of concerns. I remember from my breastfeeding class that the Lactation Consultant (LC) said that while some pain is normal, on a scale of 1-10, if it's worse than a 3, get help. And that weighted feeds are available if you're concerned they aren't getting enough milk.

We really LOVED our breastfeeding class and it helped take away 99% of the concerns I had and I came away with so much knowledge that I felt confident that if it could work for us we'd make it work. Also, the class and LC who taught it was much better informed than the hospital LC that came by (and I pretty much ignored).

*find a La Leche Leauge group, or a local mom/baby store that has groups and or classes, see if the pediatrician you choose has an LC on staff you like, research on Kellymom.com. 

margareth-2

This is all very helpful.  I attended a breastfeeding class last month and there was absolutely no mention of an epidural affecting breastfeeding; considering the conscientiousness and wide-ranging knowledge of the woman leading it, I would assume that she would have addressed the issue if she felt it were of major concern.  So I guess it's just some of these books that seem to preach against it. If it were a hard and fast rule, then that would be another story, but it seems like there's no definitive evidence of this link between epidural and breastfeeding...

Becky012016

The epidural just blocks the pain of contractions and delivery from being felt.  Your boobs and the baby are not affected by the catheter and medicine.  Baby could be tired and/or lazy just because labor took multiple hours or just from its little personality, not because you had an epidural.  

tfrangul

I personally have not had an epidural but my sister and most other moms I know have and breast feed with no issues. I have never read a book about pregnancy, birth, child raising ect... I don't have the patience to read about someones one sided views on a situation that can never be predicted.  I would say get your epidural and not stressing about it girl! 

margareth-2

I'm with you, @tfrangul! It just struck me as odd to get so many recommendations about a book and then to read such preachiness within the pages... they did say that the baby might be sluggish and "not get his/her act together" (also - using that phrasing?!). Yeah, I'm done with that book... it might be good for other ppl, but...

Carebella

The one complication I have heard of from hospital deliveries was more related to having an IV because the additional fluids can put pressure on the milk ducts making nursing harder at first. "Thankfully" all the additional fluid for me went to my feet so I didn't have any trouble with nursing. Just painfully swollen troll feet. 

wannabeamongoose

Rhubarb7216 said:

@margareth, also a FTM here so I don't have experience to share, but just had to mention I started reading Breastfeeding Made Simple yesterday and the tone was so preachy that I had to stop reading it! This was not just related to epidurals, but there was one part that made it sound like you're only going to have a successful first breastfeeding experience if you have an unmedicated birth. My hope is to do an unmedicated birth, but I'm still keeping my options open for an epidrural and either way I found the tone offensive. I do have a friend who had an epidural the first time and not the second (and this was actually because baby came too fast not because she didn't want an epidural) and she was equally successful in establishing breastfeeding both times - didn't seem to be be a factor.

As someone who had an unmedicated birth and also breastfed, I can tell you that not having an epidural did not make my breastfeeding experience any easier. At all.

Also, I'm honestly not sure how an epidural would impact breastfeeding in the long term. I get how it could impact baby's ability to nurse immediately after birth, and according to La Leche League, there is evidence that it does so. But as with most things breastfeeding takes practice. Even if it comes totally naturally to you, you and baby are likely to take a while to fully get the hang of it regardless of how baby was born.

tfrangul

Well said @wannabeamongoose! 

MyNamesTaken

I had an epidural and had no issues breastfeeding. DS latched on and went for it. We had to make a few adjustments here and there but that's because neither of us knew what we were doing, not because I had the epi. It's your labour, do what makes you feel comfortable and don't feel pressured by a judgy book!

sarahufl

I would stop reading books like that. I had an epidural and breastfed very easily for 13 months and only stopped because DD and I were both ready. 

Get ready to be judged for basically every parenting decision you make and def skip the judgy books where you can.

bnmort8

FTM here too. Me and hubby took a labor and delivery class that went over all the pros and cons of both meds and no meds labor. I was all for no meds till one of the pros with epidural is your more relaxed your not stressing about the next contraction which could then prolong your labor. So now I have changed my mind I was mainly worried about the needle I already knew there is no effects on baby.

Defiantly do your research and you'll know what's best for you and baby

SquattingGryphon

Just adding myself to list of moms who had an epidural and had no issues with breastfeeding (weaned him off around 12 months).

TLooney17

I have had two unmedicated births and breast fed with no issues. My sister had two births with epidurals and breast fed both of her boys for a year with no issues. I really don't think the epidural made our breastfeeding experiences any different. I know in the birth center where I gave birth they made a big deal about my babies being so alert because I had no medications, but my nephews both seemed pretty alert and into nursing in my opinion.

daisy62103

I had an epidural with my first and second. My first was somewhat sluggish and tired and we had a lot of issues breastfeeding in the beginning. She had no health issues, but was tired and disinterested in nursing. We eventually got the hang of it. My second nursed awesome right away and we never had any issues. For my third I went totally drug free and she also nursed right away. I wouldn't worry about an epidural interfering with bfing. If you want the epidural, go for it. 

lilpoots

I had a spinal, two IVs and I lost 3 units of blood. Still was able to breastfeed for over two years. Supply is a very personal and individual thing. Don't let that book scare you off, from your own birth plan.

tiki8286

I had an epidural 6 hours after my water broke two weeks before my due date. It was another 6 hours with the epidural in before my son was born. He was 6 lbs 6 oz at birth. He would sort of latch on but was kind of lazy. The nurses stated pushing me towards supplementing but I stuck it out. He did end up loosing almost a full pound of body weight and I Ended up having to pump and syringe feed him for the first week of his life, most of the time while
he was at the breast (would stick the syringe into the corner of his mouth while he was latched).

After that week, it was smooth sailing - he got stronger, his latch got better and the bugger nursed like a champ till he was 14 months old. So I think him being 2 weeks early + epidural being in for 6 hours made him lazy which then made him weaker. But I was determined and happy I stuck through. I don't think the epidural itself was what gave us issues so I wouldn't discount having an epidural at all.

CSL522

+1 for having an epidural and successfully breastfeeding my son for 21 months (we stopped because I was 16 weeks pregnant and milk supply was decreasing; also because I have zero desire to tandem feed.) 

jenn622-2

Does anyone have any experience with a "walking epidural"?  I hate the idea of being totally numb from the waist down and not having use of my legs so I was thinking about the "walking epidural" but then I read that, unlike a standard epidural, the drug can be passed to baby leaving him groggy.

coffee-2

I had two vaginal births with epidural and breastfed each child for two years. The epidural did not impact breastfeeding at all as far as I could tell, it just took a while initially for us all to figure out what we were doing. 

mamaofthegarden

I've had one unmedicated birth and one epidural. I successfully breastfed both children but my first (unmedicated) was much more difficult. 

I think plenty of women have an epidural and breastfeed successfully. While I do think there are valid reasons to try to avoid an epidural, I don't think fear of breastfeeding issues is one of them. 

rosemomma

I had a blessed epidural and my baby latched on immediately after birth. I did end up having to switch to formula after 3 months but my breastfeeding trouble had nothing to do with the epidural. The epidural was wonderful! 

ColoradoHiker

jenn622-2 said:

Does anyone have any experience with a "walking epidural"?  I hate the idea of being totally numb from the waist down and not having use of my legs so I was thinking about the "walking epidural" but then I read that, unlike a standard epidural, the drug can be passed to baby leaving him groggy.

My last hospital did walking epidurals, in the sense that the amount of medication was lower, so you could push more effectively  (I think that was the premise, anyway).  However, they did not allow you to walk around due to liability and the falling risks.  I would ask your hospital if they do them, and if so, if you're allowed to walk.

OP, from a scientific POV , I'm curious as to what the correlation between the epidural and BFing they tried to make was.  The epi is literally just meant to block pain.  All of my friends had epidural, and went on to have very successful BFing experiences.  I've never actually personally met anyone who was unsuccessful at BFing attribute it to an epidural. 

wannabeamongoose

@ColoradoHiker According to what I've read (not speaking for OP or the book) there is some evidence that epidural medication does pass into the placenta, making baby groggy and less responsive initially. This leads to the theory that it is harder to latch right away. There is also evidence, in the US at least, of a correlation between epidurals and other interventions which are known to impact the breastfeeding relationship, so in a roundabout way I suppose in those cases the epidural could be blamed. And then there's something about epidurals decrease endorphins in the mother, which in turn decreases endorphins in the milk and makes it less comforting for baby, or something like that.

But there isn't much valid research on how medication relates specifically to breastfeeding and the research that does exist largely lacks in control groups so it's not terribly helpful. And none of the research seems to have found a long term correlation. I'm willing to bet the book was coming from a judgy mcjudgerson anecdotal perspective.

I think the key, regardless of the type of birth you have, is to have the support of experts who can help you work through what is a very natural, but also a very difficult, breastfeeding relationship.

ColoradoHiker

@wannabeamongoose Thanks for the info (and full disclosure: my reading comprehension was not top notch at 8am, I should have noticed the groggy part of the OPs explanation).  I've been told/ read that the baby can be made drowsy if the mother has had narcotics (in lieu of an epidural), but I hadn't heard of it possibly applying to an epidural as well.  I can definitely see how that would make immediate latching difficult.  I think my problem with the idea is that there are so many reasons why BFing successfully can be hard, and I have to admit that having an epidural isn't even in the top twenty I could come up with.  Not latching immediately isn't an indication that BFing as a whole is doomed for mama and baby.  I agree with you, having a support system is absolutely essential, especially for FTMs.

margareth-2

Yes, this is the scientific/medical explanation I had heard, too. 

I really don't know what to expect AT ALL since I'm a FTM, but I'm going to go into it knowing that an epidural is available upon request. I have a feeling I'll prob get one around 4 cm, from what I've heard, but "birth plans" can have a funny way of eluding us! Best to know all options and have some kind of flexible plan, IMO. 

cmar1006

@margareth aren't you in Manhattan? I had a FANTASTIC lactation consultant with DD. Let me
know if I can pass on her info. 

I had an epidural with DD and after a bumpy start we exclusively breastfed until 6 months when we added solids and then until 2.5 years. 

margareth-2

@cmar1006 yes. That would be great! 

cmar1006

@margareth YGPM

msashley2010-2

The only thing I was told before having my epidural and the effect it would have on DD is that it would make her a lot more groggy and that she would probably sleep a lot. 

She came out wide eyed and didn't sleep for hours. They kept commenting on how alert she was and how surprised they were. 

Breastfeeding was a challenge. Just because I didn't know what I was doing. I BF for two weeks and stopped but it didn't have anything to do with the epidural. 

jessieR358

I haven't read the other posts. I planned on going unmedicated for these reasons, but was induced and got an epidural 4 hours in. My son was so alert when he was born! Now, my epidural was wearing off and I could feel pushing so I wasn't dosed so high. My son latched right away and was a champ nurser. I weaned him at about 18 months old. So don't let that book scare you and think your doomed if you get an epidural. 

jenn622-2

The more I've been thinking about it the more I'm considering going, <gulp!> drug free. This was definitely not my intent when pregnancy began. I thought I would want all the drugs! I'm less worried about breastfeeding and more thinking of recovery... I've heard you're less likely to tear during drug-free births and, honestly, the tearing or episiotomy is my biggest fear!! I guess an increase in tearing is more due to you not feeling anything so not following your body's cues to start and stop pushing than the drugs themselves. Similar to how you would leave your hand on a hot stove longer and get a worse burn if your body didn't scream at you to take it off! Makes sense I guess...

I'm a FTM so no idea how bad the pain will be so I might change my tune and demand meds as soon as contractions start to get bad, haha. Any experienced moms have any thoughts on this?

tiki8286

jenn622-2 said:

The more I've been thinking about it the more I'm considering going, <gulp!> drug free. This was definitely not my intent when pregnancy began. I thought I would want all the drugs! I'm less worried about breastfeeding and more thinking of recovery... I've heard you're less likely to tear during drug-free births and, honestly, the tearing or episiotomy is my biggest fear!! I guess an increase in tearing is more due to you not feeling anything so not following your body's cues to start and stop pushing than the drugs themselves. Similar to how you would leave your hand on a hot stove longer and get a worse burn if your body didn't scream at you to take it off! Makes sense I guess...

I'm a FTM so no idea how bad the pain will be so I might change my tune and demand meds as soon as contractions start to get bad, haha. Any experienced moms have any thoughts on this?

This is my 3rd baby. I had an epidural with my first, and all natural med-free with my 2nd (not even by choice, she came so fast the nurse didn't get a chance to get my hand IV in.) I think this time I will try to go med-free by choice - only bc my recovery was a breeze, I walked myself from the delivery table to the wheelchair without assistance. With the epidural, I had residual back pain for 4 months following the birth. 

 I did not tear with either.  My hospital has this thing where a nurse massages the vaginal opening (perineum) back and forth along the bottom and sides - it helped tons! You can ask if your hospital provides this. 

jenn622-2

@tiki8286 I've been hearing that recovery is much easier Drug-free which is a major plus for me. I thought it was related to tearing with an epidural  but maybe there's more to it than that. This was really helpful, thank you!!  

margareth-2

Oh boy now I don't know what to think... play it by ear, I guess, and if I can't take the pain I'll ask for an epidural when that time comes... 

jenn622-2

@margareth please don't let my post scare you away from epidural either! I don't know what the hell im talking about and I'm just trying to get as much info as I can, lol!  I'm sure whatever decision you make will be fine so go with whatever you feel is right for you! 

coastalmomma2

@jenn622-2,  I had a med free birth with my son, but I still tore pretty badly. I think this was largely due to feeling pressure from my doctor to push before I felt I really had to and 2 hours later...from the panicked push I gave which delivered DS after they warned me that his heart rate was dipping.