December 2017 Moms

New findings about alcohol: even low amounts can influence baby's development

milkbarmilkbar member
edited June 2017 in December 2017 Moms
I have come across this article today and thought this study could help someone to make their choice on whether they can have an occasional glass of wine during pregnancy. Though it doesn't say that a small amount of alcohol is harmful for baby's cognitive abilities, unfortunately, it can alter face features even during second and third trimesters.

UPD. After seeing surprisingly negative feedback about this article, I want to add a couple of clarifying words here. First of all, my post is not advice and it's not meant to teach you, offend you or judge you about your choices. This is just information for consideration.

Second, I shared it because for me these finding are a big deal. I was sure it's perfectly fine to have a glass of wine on a special occasion from time to time. However, that study really surprised me that the second and third trimester can be affected by alcohol consumption, I never heard that before.

It's sad but it made me reconsider my opinion. This article helped me to make a decision, maybe it will be useful for somebody else too. Those who find this information faulty or disagree with it, please share your opinion constructively, without offense or sarcasm. 

Please note, the study talks only about very subtle changes in the baby's faces, which are not harmful or influence any cognitive capabilities. These changes are so small you can't even see them with a naked eye. And not all babies get affected. So ladies, who like me allowed yourselves a glass of wine, our babies will be perfectly fine!! :))

PS. The link to the abstract of the actual study
Jama is a peer-reviewed general medical journal.


Re: New findings about alcohol: even low amounts can influence baby's development

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  • milkbarmilkbar member
    edited June 2017
    @vvitchhazel  I think, they say here or in another article about this study that changes are 2mm at most which is invisible to a naked eye. But the fact that alcohol can do that is a bit scary to me. 
  • milkbarmilkbar member
    edited June 2017
    @Amber_Waves You can find more numbers from the study if you google it. As to the peer review, you may be very right. I am keen to hear more scientific opinions on these findings. 
  • abcolaabcola member
    Thank you @ameliabedelia-2 or inorder to post something like this you need to have read 'Expexting Better' by Emily Oster who reviewed all sorts of studies about the taboo topics. 

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  • So by the logic of this article, since I knew I was KU from the day I conceived and abstained from the juice throughout 1st tri, I'm good to go now! Thanks! 

    In case you're interested in the results of the actual study instead of an inflammatory journalists perspective:
    "Of the 415 children in the study (195 girls and 220 boys; mean [SD] age, 363.0 [8.3] days), a consistent association between craniofacial shape and prenatal alcohol exposure was observed at almost any level regardless of whether exposure occurred only in the first trimester or throughout pregnancy. Regions of difference were concentrated around the midface, nose, lips, and eyes. Directional visualization showed that these differences corresponded to general recession of the midface and superior displacement of the nose, especially the tip of the nose, indicating shortening of the nose and upturning of the nose tip. Differences were most pronounced between groups with no exposure and groups with low exposure in the first trimester (forehead), moderate to high exposure in the first trimester (eyes, midface, chin, and parietal region), and binge-level exposure in the first trimester (chin)."
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  • milkbarmilkbar member
    edited June 2017
    @abcola The study that she refers to in her book can be misleading too. Some say, the fact babies exposed to alcohol in pregnancy show higher cognitive abilities is not because it's healthy or safe but because moms who tend to have drinks during pregnancy are higher paid employed intellectual women who can give a better upbringing. The study above by the way is not about cognitive possibilities but facial changes. Anyways, I am here not to ague but to say that there is a new study moms-to-be might want to consider when they are making a choice. 
  • milkbarmilkbar member
    edited June 2017
    @ameliabedelia-2  This is not advice, this is information for consideration. 
  • milkbarmilkbar member
    edited June 2017
    I don't judge anyone's choices. It's none of my business or interest. But i do care to share information that can be of other people's interest.
  • milkbarmilkbar member
    edited June 2017
    @ameliabedelia-2 I don't judge anyone's choices. It's none of my business or interest. But i do care to share information that can be of other people's interest. If you find this information faulty, better share with us information why we shouldn't be concerned about these findings. Your sarcasm doesn't contribute anything to the discussion and makes wrong impression about me, which is offensive.
  • milkbarmilkbar member
    edited June 2017
    kvacmak said:
    @milkbar based on the study, the primary findings were on alcohol consumption in the 1st tri. Most of us are past the 1st tri. So if you are actually concerned about the results then you're basically telling everyone who may have had a drink, whether they knew they were pregnant or not, that they're bad mom's and they fucked up and it will be on their baby's face for everyone to see. Because it's too late for any of us to go back now and change the decisions we made in the first trimester. 

    What exactly was your purpose of sharing this, exactly?
    @kvacmak This is study relates to all trimesters:
    "a consistent association between craniofacial shape and prenatal alcohol exposure was observed at almost any level regardless of whether exposure occurred only in the first trimester or throughout pregnancy". 
    So this information can be still useful.

  • @PoeMasque You are totally right. Male pre-conception choices influence 50% of the outcome. Alcohol and certain drugs affect the sperm count, mobility and most importantly - its mophology. Which in its turn can lead to abnormailities in development and miscarriges. Considering that sperm renews within 3 months, men should be on a more strict regimen before and during TTC then us! :)))
  • Aww thanks! She provided advice to me on another thread as well. 
  • @lund Nothing strange. Am I not allowed to express my opinion if I haven't posted before? Or to be part of this forum I need to deserve approval of its regulars first? I haven't seen it in the rules. It's not very friendly. 
  • @Amber_Waves just found out, the Jama magazine is peer-reviewed.

  • @flowerpower5838 Please read my update to the post about advice and judgements as well my other comments in the thread on this topic... I believe my mistake is that I didn't realize that the culture of this forum obliges you have to be an active and known user here to post. I personally have a very limited time to monitor and participate in discussions. I guess that limits my right to share and I have to accept it. Too sad, that information sharing is not the primary goal here. You have to build your relationships to have a say.
  • @milkbar Like I said in the other post, a little blurb that said hey, I haven't contributed yet but here is a little bit about me and I saw this article fellow moms might be interested in, it would've been received differently. You don't necessarily have to build relationships to have a say, but try making it a little more personal... The whole purpose behind these forums is finding support and friendship with other woman. Can you understand how walking in when no one knows you and bringing up a controversial topic, maybe isn't the best thing to do? 
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  • @vvitchhazel @alysapuggles I wish I got this explanation right after I posted the discussion instead of being attacked. I am glad we have figured that out. I've have just added my introduction and added an update to my post which hopefully will make people more comfortable reading it.

  • I'm glad to hear that JAMA is peer-reviewed.
    Does anyone have access to the full text of the article?

    Because, as I mentioned above, there is no information about statistical significance in the abstract.  
    Meaning:  there might be a measurable difference in the average cuteness of the noses, but we have no idea how likely it is that the difference is due to chance alone.  Typically, they have to be 95% sure, based on statistical modeling, that the difference is not due to chance, but they don't provide that information. 

    Also, the study, as described, can only show correlation (if there is statistical significance) not causation (it's not an experiment, it's an enhanced survey); so "alcohol can influence"  is poor language choice as "influence" implies causation.  
  • i think i'm the only one who wasn't bothered by this post, but hey i'm here to read the ongoing comments. (repeating popcorn GIF from above lol)
    I'm not bothered by it. Maybe because i don't drink anyway.  I don't know. It's interesting seeing everyone's perspective. 
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  • @Amber_Waves This is a good point. I haven't found the full description, I hope it'll become available. The only additional peace of information I have just found is a beginning of the article in Jama magazine about this study

  • @lund
    as per usual, the most helpful lurker/poster out there ;) 

    Of course my alumni university journal access doesn't have JAMA pediatrics...
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  • @elcd458  ha, yep, exactly!!
  • @clovelyone YESSSSSS. all of this exacttttlyyy!!! I really don't give a shit if someone hasn't posted before.
    Me: 31  DH: 32      <3 DH since 12.2009       Married 08.2013       EDD 12.2017
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