July 2017 Moms

Unpopular Opinions Thursday 3-16-17

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Re: Unpopular Opinions Thursday 3-16-17

  • While I respect gun owners' rights to own them, I also reserve my right as a parent to ensure the safety of my child. Guns aren't chemical cleaners or other household items that kids can, in theory, get into and harm themselves with. They are weapons designed for maximum affect. If a family isn't extraordinarily careful with their firearms, my child isn't going there. Accidents happen. Kids who know where guns are and are told not to touch them still touch them - they're kids, they break rules. 

    A gun in the house makes that home's inhabitants far more likely to be injured or killed by a firearm. 
    PurplePoppy424hanmagan
  • @abmommy15 Someone who is carelessly keeping toxic chemicals(bleach or whatever) out to where my child could drink/get it in their eye if spilt/get burns from, is a home my child wouldn't be allowed in! Or OTC/perception meds is a huge one for me. I guess in my eyes someone guilty of those things is not responsible enough to have my child at their home.

    Also, I hope everyone is equally as passionate about pool safety as gun safety. It's a lot higher on the CDC list of accidental deaths for 0-19 than guns(by a landslide). If someone doesn't have a fence around their pool, my kid isn't going to their home. Also, the gate needs to be locked. And if they are swimming that day, a parent needs to be on life guard duty the entire time!!! I'm way more freaked out about pool safety than I am guns because the odds are a lot greater(but now gun safety is on my radar!!!). And nothing attracts young children faster than a pool! I grew up with a pool and very strict parents about pool safety. My child will be taugh to swim soon(1.5 years old now), and he will be taugh pool safety. Safety in all areas is important. CDC has great stats on this stuff for everyone. 
    BusyZeelph4248PurplePumpernickel
  • While I respect gun owners' rights to own them, I also reserve my right as a parent to ensure the safety of my child. Guns aren't chemical cleaners or other household items that kids can, in theory, get into and harm themselves with. They are weapons designed for maximum affect. If a family isn't extraordinarily careful with their firearms, my child isn't going there. Accidents happen. Kids who know where guns are and are told not to touch them still touch them - they're kids, they break rules. 

    A gun in the house makes that home's inhabitants far more likely to be injured or killed by a firearm. 
    This is exactly how I feel. It's not a personal attack on the parents that do own them, it's my decision as a parent myself to either allow or not allow my child to be around guns. I personally am against guns, especially handguns. We will never own them and I don't want my children to be around them. I respect that not everyone shares that view and I respect that people feel that they need/want to own them. I respect people that own them legally and practice diligent gun safety. However, It's my right as a parent to keep my children out of homes that have them. It's nothing personal to those that do own them, that's just how I feel and I feel like my wishes should also be respected. 
  • BusyZeeBusyZee member
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    LoveLee85 said:
    @abmommy15 Someone who is carelessly keeping toxic chemicals(bleach or whatever) out to where my child could drink/get it in their eye if spilt/get burns from, is a home my child wouldn't be allowed in! Or OTC/perception meds is a huge one for me. I guess in my eyes someone guilty of those things is not responsible enough to have my child at their home.

    Also, I hope everyone is equally as passionate about pool safety as gun safety. It's a lot higher on the CDC list of accidental deaths for 0-19 than guns(by a landslide). If someone doesn't have a fence around their pool, my kid isn't going to their home. Also, the gate needs to be locked. And if they are swimming that day, a parent needs to be on life guard duty the entire time!!! I'm way more freaked out about pool safety than I am guns because the odds are a lot greater(but now gun safety is on my radar!!!). And nothing attracts young children faster than a pool! I grew up with a pool and very strict parents about pool safety. My child will be taugh to swim soon(1.5 years old now), and he will be taugh pool safety. Safety in all areas is important. CDC has great stats on this stuff for everyone. 
    Agree with All of this!
  • abmommy15 said:
    Opinion disclaimer - I'm Canadian so my thoughts and opinions about gun ownership are probably drastically different from the majority of the group.
    I probably wouldn't allow my kids to go on a play date in a home that has guns.  For me it's an unnecessary risk and while I'm sure that the majority of gun owners are very responsible there is always a what if factor and I've heard too many stories of the unthinkable happening because one time somebody forgot to lock the safe or stepped away for a second.  While the rational side of me knows those situations are very rare the protective mom who doesn't understand the desire to own a gun  side of me can't get over it.
    I'm the opposite.  So many people around here have guns for hunting that my kids would never go anywhere if I didn't allow them in homes with guns.  I would have never even thought to ask if someone owns them.  

    In Canada (or at least where I am) they must be stored and locked up, unloaded when not in use.  You have to have a license to own a gun and we go through pretty rigorous background checks to get them.  We have unrestricted (hunting type guns) and restricted licenses (hand guns, semi-automatics etc.  We aren't allowed to own fully automatics anywhere here. I have no idea if it's the same in the US)  We also have to have hunting licenses.  Mainly people only own here for hunting.  Owning for self-defense is pretty unheard of.  If you have a restricted license you are only allow to shoot those guns at ranges and gun clubs.  Not in your own backyard, not anywhere else.  You have to fill out a pretty complicated form which details your driving route to the club or range exactly.  It's pretty intense. They need to know where that weapon is at all times.  None of this bothers me.  I really hope our gun laws stay this way.    
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  • I am very much on the same page as @LoveLee85 regarding pool safety. The chemical is almost a non-issue for me because I can't really envision my child being at another parent's house unsupervised by myself until he is of an age where cleaning products don't look appatizing. Most 6-7 year olds don't go around putting everytjinf in their mouths. I do, however, have an irrational fear of childhood drowning. Maybe not so irrational, considering, but it happens to quickly and frequently enough that my husband and I even ruled out homes with pools before we bought our house and also made it a stipulation of the contract we signed upon closing that the hottub be removed from the property before we would take possession of the property. My son is starting swim lessons on the 23rd (18 months old) and my twins will do the same. It's just a major paranoia of mine (I'm the same way about turning my back for even a second when he's in the tub and make this clear to anyone who bathes him aside from myself as well). That said, I refuse to live my life afraid - I'd never be able to leave the house and my son would live in an organic, natural fiber, sterilized bubble if I tried to avoid all potential hazards. Absolutely none of this is meant to degrade the negative opinions regarding guns - I fee I was fairly clear in my earlier statement about how respectful my husband and I intend to be in the handling of that scenario. But I do believe that reasonable, intelligent, sensible precautions go a long way towards dampening the dangerous world.
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  • rae1-3rae1-3 member
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    @stokesm21 I had no idea gun laws were so strict in Canada! In the US, if you buy a gun from an actual gun broker, they do a background check, but that is about it. And honestly the background check took all of 5 min on the phone when I bought my handgun so I am not sure how in depth the go. Maybe it would take longer if they found something suspicious. BUT, anyone can buy a gun from any random person (friend, neighbor, craigslist, etc.) and there is no paperwork that legally has to be filed. Even as a gun owner, I don't know how I feel about this portion of the laws here.

    A license is only required if you want to carry concealed (but you can own a gun and even open carry without any license in most places). I don't hunt so I am not sure on the law regarding that. 

    There are certain things in the US that require special permits. Example: DH is going through the process of getting a suppressor/silencer and let me tell you THAT is a lot of work. Same with certain after market modifications you can make to your weapon. 

    @ktewart @LoveLee85 completely agree on pool safety. I was a swimmer and taught swim classes (including infant mommy-and-me classes) when I was in HS. Our LO will definitely be in the pool early on. 
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  • @Rae1 Haha yes, it's pretty ... involved.  We need a PAL (Possession and Acquisition License) which is where the background check comes in.  If you have any sort of criminal background relating to aggression, weapons or anything like that you are going to have a much harder time acquiring a license.  They also want to know who your spouse or SO is to avoid firearms being purchased by one and potentially used by the other who for whatever reason, cannot get a license.  In addition to this we need to take a mandatory gun safety course.  They also put a wait on processing your application so you can't just go in, get a license and buy a gun.  It's a mandatory 28 day waiting period at a minimum.  Then we need to renew every 5 years.  We do have prohibited firearms licenses (think sawed-off shotguns, fully automatics etc.) but I don't think your average joe can get those. I've never met anyone who has that license.  Possibly only for military and police personnel?  Who knows haha!  That's not to say that I wouldn't use my weapon in self-defense if I really felt that I needed to but that's generally not why we have them.  (I also said that like I own firearms when in reality I don't.  I would like to get my non-restricted and restricted but it's just not something I really want to spend the money on at the moment haha!  It's hundreds for a license and the courses then the guns and ammo on top of that)  I don't believe you are allowed to conceal or open carry anywhere in Canada.   
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  • My parents have a pool so we've added added some pool safety things and baby swimming items to the registry. (Like those floats that attach baby to mom). I would never require my mom to put a fence around the pool but we will definitely be turning on all the door chimes and getting one of those alarms that go off when the surface tension of the pool changes. 
  • I thought it was a law that you had to have a fenced yard if you have a pool. So random people can't come swim in your pool when you're not there. Or at least a requirement from insurance companies. I'm sure it varies from place to place, but it seems like that would be a major liability issue. 
  • I haven't even thought of pool safety. Why are there so many things that could hurt our children?!?

    Kidding. But that's a great point. I was lucky enough to have a sitter who had a pool, and teamed up with a local swim instructor to teach us to swim early. I'm not a graceful swimmer by any means, but I can swim and tread water. Will definitely have the small one learn water safety and swimming techniques as soon as I can - especially since he/she WILL be a beach person. (If my husband doesn't do the beach, I need another beach partner in crime.)
  • AdaByron said:
    I thought it was a law that you had to have a fenced yard if you have a pool. So random people can't come swim in your pool when you're not there. Or at least a requirement from insurance companies. I'm sure it varies from place to place, but it seems like that would be a major liability issue. 
    The only thing I've heard was from DH.  He said having a fence around your pool will lower your premium on your insurance, so not sure if it's required or not.

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  • rae1-3rae1-3 member
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    AdaByron said:
    I thought it was a law that you had to have a fenced yard if you have a pool. So random people can't come swim in your pool when you're not there. Or at least a requirement from insurance companies. I'm sure it varies from place to place, but it seems like that would be a major liability issue. 
    I think if it's in ground, yes. But I am not positive. But there's also a difference between having a fenced in yard with a pool, and actually having just the pool area fenced in. Maybe that is what parent's have? If I had a pool with children, I would want the pool itself in it's own fenced area so the kids could be playing in the yard without concern of drowing. 
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  • lph4248lph4248 member
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    The gun question is tricky.

    @adabyron I had honestly never thought about this but it's such a good point - if people aren't locking up their firearms, unloaded, in a place the children cannot get to, there is a danger. My grandfather's family had a rifle that everyone *knew* was unloaded, and the kids got to it, and surprise, it wasn't unloaded. One of them accidentally shot a bullet through the roof.

    But the problem with straight-up asking other parents is that some people really aren't comfortable disclosing their gun ownership, especially in the northeast US (or the west coast of course). Where I am, gun ownership is not particularly common, but it's hardly unheard of either. It's just not talked about much... which is very different from where half of my family is from in the southern US, where gun ownership is basically the norm, like @ktewart is saying. There, realistically the question isn't "do you have a gun?" but "how do you store your guns?" Around here I'd be super uncomfortable bringing up the topic while scheduling a playdate, unless I know the parents really well.


  • AdaByron said:
    I thought it was a law that you had to have a fenced yard if you have a pool. So random people can't come swim in your pool when you're not there. Or at least a requirement from insurance companies. I'm sure it varies from place to place, but it seems like that would be a major liability issue. 
    Each municipality has their own regulations about when a fence is required, but yes, usually it is required to prevent this exact problem, kids drowning.
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  • Rae1 said:
    AdaByron said:
    I thought it was a law that you had to have a fenced yard if you have a pool. So random people can't come swim in your pool when you're not there. Or at least a requirement from insurance companies. I'm sure it varies from place to place, but it seems like that would be a major liability issue. 
    I think if it's in ground, yes. But I am not positive. But there's also a difference between having a fenced in yard with a pool, and actually having just the pool area fenced in. Maybe that is what parent's have? If I had a pool with children, I would want the pool itself in it's own fenced area so the kids could be playing in the yard without concern of drowing. 
    Oh, I see. This is different. A lot of people I know who have pools sacrifice any play space for the pool, so it would be impractical in some situations. Or like the back yard would be fenced off for the pool, but there would be a front/side yard where kids can play that would be unfenced. I would think it would be a relatively short period of time where you would be comfortable with the kids outside playing unsupervised, but not near the pool unsupervised, so it is probably not an issue for most people. Bur our yard isn't fenced at all, so it'll be a long time before I left my DS play outside without me.
  • Rae1 said:
    @stokesm21 I had no idea gun laws were so strict in Canada! In the US, if you buy a gun from an actual gun broker, they do a background check, but that is about it. And honestly the background check took all of 5 min on the phone when I bought my handgun so I am not sure how in depth the go. Maybe it would take longer if they found something suspicious. BUT, anyone can buy a gun from any random person (friend, neighbor, craigslist, etc.) and there is no paperwork that legally has to be filed. Even as a gun owner, I don't know how I feel about this portion of the laws here.

    A license is only required if you want to carry concealed (but you can own a gun and even open carry without any license in most places). I don't hunt so I am not sure on the law regarding that. 

    There are certain things in the US that require special permits. Example: DH is going through the process of getting a suppressor/silencer and let me tell you THAT is a lot of work. Same with certain after market modifications you can make to your weapon. 

    @ktewart @LoveLee85 completely agree on pool safety. I was a swimmer and taught swim classes (including infant mommy-and-me classes) when I was in HS. Our LO will definitely be in the pool early on. 
    Freaking blows my mind. There is something wrong with this, right?
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  • rae1-3rae1-3 member
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    @adabyron same - our yard isn't fenced and there's a drop off at the very back into a wooded/brush area. We will likely only be in this house another 5ish years though (we keep extending it lol) so who knows.
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  • LoveLee85 said:
    @abmommy15 Someone who is carelessly keeping toxic chemicals(bleach or whatever) out to where my child could drink/get it in their eye if spilt/get burns from, is a home my child wouldn't be allowed in! Or OTC/perception meds is a huge one for me. I guess in my eyes someone guilty of those things is not responsible enough to have my child at their home.

    Also, I hope everyone is equally as passionate about pool safety as gun safety. It's a lot higher on the CDC list of accidental deaths for 0-19 than guns(by a landslide). If someone doesn't have a fence around their pool, my kid isn't going to their home. Also, the gate needs to be locked. And if they are swimming that day, a parent needs to be on life guard duty the entire time!!! I'm way more freaked out about pool safety than I am guns because the odds are a lot greater(but now gun safety is on my radar!!!). And nothing attracts young children faster than a pool! I grew up with a pool and very strict parents about pool safety. My child will be taugh to swim soon(1.5 years old now), and he will be taugh pool safety. Safety in all areas is important. CDC has great stats on this stuff for everyone. 
    I wasn't saying that proper storage of chemicals isn't important, Only that I don't think it is on the same level as gun safety.  

    Totally agree aboit the pool safety. Here if you have a pool it has to have a fence around it with a spring loaded gate.  Still not fool proof but definitely helps prevent accidental drownings.  
  • lph4248 said:
    The gun question is tricky.

    @adabyron I had honestly never thought about this but it's such a good point - if people aren't locking up their firearms, unloaded, in a place the children cannot get to, there is a danger. My grandfather's family had a rifle that everyone *knew* was unloaded, and the kids got to it, and surprise, it wasn't unloaded. One of them accidentally shot a bullet through the roof.

    But the problem with straight-up asking other parents is that some people really aren't comfortable disclosing their gun ownership, especially in the northeast US (or the west coast of course). Where I am, gun ownership is not particularly common, but it's hardly unheard of either. It's just not talked about much... which is very different from where half of my family is from in the southern US, where gun ownership is basically the norm, like @ktewart is saying. There, realistically the question isn't "do you have a gun?" but "how do you store your guns?" Around here I'd be super uncomfortable bringing up the topic while scheduling a playdate, unless I know the parents really well.
    And tagging @caribbeanmama  as well, we live in LA in a bubble but as DD gets older and her social circle starts to grow to include people that I may not immediately connect with, it becomes much more important, to me, to ask those questions. I used to feel like it was an uncomfortable conversation to have, but after having that conversation with my LEO friend and with a few other moms on my birth board, it's gotten much easier - we basically just say "hey, whenever we go to a new friend's house, we just have to check to cover off a few things: DD is super scared of dogs and has had a few issue with them in the past - do you guys have dogs? Also, she's never seen a gun before in real life, wouldn't understand the dangers of a gun, and knows nothing about gun safety. Do you guys have guns? how do you guys store it? and finally, do you guys have a pool? is there a fence? she doesn't know how to swim, either, although that's something we're actually working on right now" 

    If they're like - damn lady, wtf, I probably wouldn't go, or I'd make a little joke about how I'm a total hippie and wouldn't last a minute in the apocalypse. 
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  • Oh man, I just remembered something from my childhood related to guns. So I'm in Canada, and as it's already been explained, we have very tough gun laws which I'm in full agreement with. However, as a child, our family visited my grandma's house and my aunt was there with her slimeball boyfriend. The boyfriend thought it would be cool to show my younger brother (5 yrs)​ the stash of rifles he had locked up in the garage without telling our parents. As he was showing my brother the guns, my sister (7 yrs) snuck in, snatched up one of the guns, ran into the house with it, and pointed it at grandma. 

    Thank god it wasn't loaded, but all hell broke loose. I was 9 at the time so I don't remember too​ clearly, but I believe it ended with a huge fight between my dad and the boyfriend who was an irresponsible idiot. Boyfriend tried blaming my sister, which was madness because it was entirely his fault and she was a child. We don't know anything about gun safety up here because we don't have a prominent gun culture. There's more training for what do to in an earthquake event than gun safety!

    I guess the point of the story is that anything can happen because kids are fast, and guns should never be taken lightly. 

    To this day we don't know if those firearms were legal or illegal. We suspect the latter given how shitty the boyfriend was with gun knowledge and safety. 



    stokesm21
  • @satsumasandlemons, I really love how you've framed out this conversation. It makes it super non-confrontational and opens the dialogue without immediately passing judgement on the other parent. Regardless of the outcome (play date happens or not), I think this is a perfect way to address your possible concerns without stepping on toes and without any gray areas.
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  • @satsumasandlemons thanks for sharing!  I may may have to practice and role play with hubby to strike the right tone lol

    +1 on pool safety.  I'm not a good swimmer though I love the sea and grew up in a house on the beach.  My parents were extremely diligent about stressing that the water was a big no no without an adult present and that the sea was dangerous.  They probably instilled more fear than respect for the water in retrospect, which is ironic because both of them are excellent swimmers.  I nearly drowned in a pool as a teenager so this one is tough for me.  I really am going to be a crazy overprotective hovermommy ugh!  We started our toddler in 'swimming' lessons - he didn't love it so we took a break and will try again in the summer.  I don't know how or when I will get to the point of allowing someone else to watch my child near the water.  I'm also paranoid about taking my eyes off him for a second while he is in the bath.




  • I don't really have any advice/a position, but I did have an interesting incident at my wedding a couple of years ago. I am from Missouri, specifically from a very big hunting community, so a lot of people (read: most people) in my community have guns. For whatever reason, I never really associated that fact with me or my life. Anyway, my sister flew in from Florida and couldn't  bring her handgun in the plane, so she borrowed one from a friend when she landed. When she got to my house and realized how many kids were at the wedding, she regretted bringing it and asked for a place to stash it. We didn't have a safe or anything, so we ended up hiding it in my underwear drawer. An hour or so later, my husband's aunt got there and asked where she could put her handgun so the kids wouldn't find it. It really took me by surprise that two people from different sides of the family would bring a gun to my wedding, but in retrospect, it probably shouldn't have, given the culture and society.

    Neither my husband nor I are hunters or gun owners, so it probably would not have occurred to me to have this conversation if not for the wedding incident and this thread. Definitely something to think about.
  • I don't like pineapple until it's in my mouth, then I remember I don't hate it. But meh.

    @caribbeanmama I hear you. Guns are a large part of why I left the US and will do everything I can in order to raise my kids away from there.

    @chiquita928 yeah, but the 90s leggings had stirrups, 'member?! 

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  • @virginiaunicorn11 I hated the ones with stirrups, but I had plenty without.  I refused to wear jeans for years.
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  • This thread is really bringing home to me what a bubble my east coast city is. I've don't know a single person who owns a gun, there are no private pools at all (only municipal) and I've never seen an expectant moms parking spot in my life! We do have fruits though, and I agree with whoever said bananas make them sad.


  • Chamomile said:
    This thread is really bringing home to me what a bubble my east coast city is. I've don't know a single person who owns a gun, there are no private pools at all (only municipal) and I've never seen an expectant moms parking spot in my life! We do have fruits though, and I agree with whoever said bananas make them sad.
    I was about to Love your post til bananas, lol
    chamomile-2chiquita928dancegurl1118
  • Yeah I'm from NJ where people don't really buy guns. I didn't know people with guns until I met my DH. His brother and one of his cousins are big on guns and they both have toddlers. We're a no gun home. I don't feel that I need them for safety reasons. And my husband doesn't hunt but if he wanted to his brother has plenty. His cousin actually moved to Pennsylvania and has a much longer commute to work because of the gun laws. Baffles me. 
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  • Here in CA you're only required by law to have a fence around your pool if the pool was built or remodeled after 2007. If it was built before, the law doesn't apply. 

    My parents pool was built when I was a kid, but I'm still going to have some safety features installed for them anyway. A fence/gate just isn't one of them... if it were my home I think I'd feel differently. 
  • CPR79CPR79 member
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    I have never been a big fan of guns, but my dad was.  He passed away a few years ago and we had to decide what to do with all of his guns (like 20 of them).  My brother also isn't a gun fan but for some reason felt weird getting rid of them so he kept them.  They're all unloaded and he doesn't use them but they're stored in his basement.  His kids are now 7 and 5, and I'm sure they'll see them or come across them soon, and that makes me uneasy.  He doesn't seem too worried about it. If they were in my house I'd definitely want them locked up at least, even unloaded.
  • CPR79CPR79 member
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    Is it an UO on this board to love March Madness? DH and I both took the day off today, have 2 TVs set up downstairs, I made corned beef in the crockpot and we haven't left the house. 
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  • @CPR79 I can't do a bracket because I become obsessed.  As long as I don't do one, March Madness doesn't distract me and I appreciate it from a distance.

    I'm going to probably plan a NCAA finals watch party at the firm.  Due to the time difference, it starts at in the afternoon in the middle of the workday here.  I did the same thing for Game 7 of the World Series and it was super fun.
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  • We have an above ground  pool (just under 4ft deep) that is half sunken into the ground with a deck and fence around it. We also have a fence around our yard. The pool fence can't actually keep a very determined toddler out. I won't leave the kids alone in the yard till they can swim and plan to talk to parents about their child's ability to swim until the kids are tall enough for it not to be a concern. 

    My best friend has guns in her house. Her husband keeps them in a safe, one is loaded the others are not.  We have already started gun safety talk with our 3 year old. Once the kids are older my friends husband will familiarize all of them with guns and eventually to shoot them. I do feel it is important to learn how to use firearms and to have respect for them. DH would like to have a gun but still isn't comfortable with them in the house until the kids are older and even then has concerns. I do plan to ask parents when my children are older. I honestly choose to have mutiple playdates outside of our house until I know the mom and child well at this age.

  • @CPR79 I love March Madness!  I haven't paid much attention to NCAA basketball this year because my team was frustrating me (silly Buckeyes).  I made a bracket and am doing astonishingly bad lol.  I was thinking of starting a thread but didn't know how many people would be interested.
    Me: 29 DH: 29
    TTC as of September 2016
    BFP: 11/10/2016 - EDD 7/24/2017
  • CPR79CPR79 member
    100 Love Its 100 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    @SpongeWorthy yeah the Buckeyes had a tough year. I'm a fellow big ten fan here, Michigan State alum so last night was a great one for us although I had very low expectations going in. 

    I'm riding a high right now with a first place bracket and that win, but the next 2 days could easily change that!

    @Twinkiedoll I'm jealous of being able to have a watch party for the final game. Being on eastern time, 9pm on a Monday night is no good for anyone! We sometimes try to do a party for the final four games since they're earlier on a Saturday. 

    I probably shouldn't do a bracket either bc I get way too into it, but I won one a couple of years ago so that was great! 
  • Fences around pools are required by law where I am.  Doesn't matter when it was built, what kind it is etc.  No fence, no pool and good luck with the fine if you get caught otherwise haha! 
    Me: 29 DH: 31 SS: 12
    Met: 08/2001 Dating: 07/2004 ~ Engaged: 11/2009 ~ Married: 06/2011
    TTC: Since 09/16 ~ BFP 10/28/16 ~ EDD 7/5/17
    Team Pink * Canadian Bumpie
    BusyZee
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