I'm so heartbroken. I thought people were better, smarter than this. This is not the world our babies deserve.
The only silver lining is that I truly believe Trump purposefully made controversial and inflammatory promises throughout his campaign to incense uneducated, rural voters. I hope that he doesn't follow through on half of his claims, which seem pretty far fetched, controversial, and unconstitutional for the most part.
I believe this too. I mean I didn't personally vote for him, but he's a businessman. I work with businessmen all day every day, and they will say whatever needs to be said to get a deal done, regardless of what they actually believe or what they actually plan to follow through on. I do not believe that Trump is half as conservative as he pretended to be during his campaign - which is why so many Republicans in Washington dislike him.
I can completely understand why people didn't want to vote for Hillary - she was not a perfect candidate, far from it, and especially if you are unhappy with the current government, it makes sense to want to go in a different direction. I just hope that Trump is serious, and isn't going to have a hissy fit in a year when he realizes how relatively little power a President actually has, and step down. Because he's scary, but I don't know that I believe he can personally get anything truly scary done. Pence is a much scarier option in my opinion, because he knows how the game works. And a quick look at his legislation in Indiana scares the shit out of me.
As I said yesterday, I've voted pretty evenly for Democrats and Republicans over my lifetime, but I find it truly difficult to vote for men who believe they should control a woman's reproductive system, or straight people who believe that homosexuals aren't real and shouldn't have basic human rights. Pence checks both boxes there, so I just need Trump to stay in office and not step down or get impeached. And it would be nice if Trump would actually listen to his daughter a little, because a nationally mandated maternity leave policy would be a great help to a lot of women who cannot afford to take necessary time off of work to bond with their newborns. It really might not be that bad. The Dems need to find a perfect candidate in 4 years though. My personal choice would be Kristen Gillibrand, but she might be too young still at that point.
The thing that makes me the most sad is all of the name calling I'm seeing on my FB feed. I don't ever post anything political and I don't judge those with opinions different than my own because we are all entitled to our opinion, so to see all of these cruel things being said by half of the people I know just hurts my heart for our country. What ever happened to being the change you want to see in the world? How does insulting people and making judgments make you any better? End rant.
I'll admit that I'm shocked today (I thought Clinton would run away with it), but I didn't vote for either candidate. As I said before, I don't believe in voting by party line and I believe it is up to every individual citizen to do their research and vote for the candidate he/she feels is best for the job.
That said... I ALWAYS respect the political opinions of others. It saddens me that so many across the country today are assuming "My countrymen are racist because they voted for Trump". "My countrymen lack intelligence because they voted for Trump". "My countrymen are bigoted and sexist because they voted for Trump". Be upset with the outcome all you want (I'm not happy about it either), but lets not tear down Trump's supporters in the process. Be angry at Trump and the delivery of his message, but don't take this out on your peers.
Now we need to come together as a country. I am friends with several who voted for Trump and I can tell you that they are kind, educated individuals spanning various ethnic backgrounds and religions. They are fed up with the corruption in Washington. They were not moved by any of the other candidates. They felt attacked and/or turned off by recent policies put into place under President Obama and feared the same would continue under Clinton. I am not happy about their vote, but I respect it and I respect them. I am not ashamed of my country today. This is an amazing country and to anyone who thinks otherwise I say "there's the door". My father is an immigrant and his family did everything they had to in order to enter and serve the country. I value my citizenship here and value the many freedoms this country grants us. I hope everyone upset by the outcome can find peace and stand unified together as we try to figure out the next 4 years.
It was a truly disappointing and disheartening outcome. I want to believe that the majority of this country is good. At least where I live there is no celebratory attitude. The mood is somber.
Stuck in the box. But he did not win the popular vote. The majority of this country is NOT for him and his message but we are stuck with him. We now have no meaningful representation in any branch of government. That is what is sad, and terrifying to people with progressive values.
Perhaps this is unpopular but I don't think all opinions are deserving of respect, particularly when the policies enacted as result restrict the rights and freedom of others. I respect working together, compromise, and drawing from logic. I can't respect misogyny, racism, sexism, xenophobia. I will not politely accept that our new leader is the preferred candidate of the KKK. I do not see this as a political issue, it is a human issue.
@Wino0920 His rhetoric did target uneducated voters by playing into their fears. Looking at voter demographics, this was his core group of supporters. This was fact based, not name calling.
All his speeches were geared to those on a 4th grade level. other Republican nominees spoke at an 8th grade level and above.
He is no better than David Duke. Policy is not everything. You need a candidate that is not an open bigot and misogynist. he mocks those that are different than him.
Trump called his supporters and non supporters names. Nasty woman, it must be that time of months, Mexicans are rapists, it goes on. if you are okay with him calling you names, don't complain because those that see Trump for who he is calls his supporters what he is. you cannot vote for Trump and ask for unity. this man was divisive from the very start.
Perhaps this is unpopular but I don't think all opinions are deserving of respect, particularly when the policies enacted as result restrict the rights and freedom of others. I respect working together, compromise, and drawing from logic. I can't respect misogyny, racism, sexism, xenophobia. I will not politely accept that our new leader is the preferred candidate of the KKK. I do not see this as a political issue, it is a human issue.
I have never heard him say all Mexicans are rapists, or that he hates Mexicans. I heard him say that all the illegal Mexicans that are criminals need to leave. Which I agree with. I also agree that if you want to live here, be my guest, but do it the right way. My father was a boater. I'm sick of hearing people say it's hard!! Life is hard, everything is hard. Doesn't mean it shouldn't and can't be done.
Illegal criminals need to leave does not equal racism like the media and Trump haters want me to believe.
If I say American citizens that commit crimes need to be locked up make me unpatriotic?!
Lets talk about being blind. Blue states turned red. I live in a blue area and I can't believe how red it turned. That to me says that people have seen something and were ready to admit it and change it. Maybe it's time to maybe to check yourself.
You say Trump uses fear, but Hillary supporters are using name calling and stereotyping.
@Wino0920 His rhetoric did target uneducated voters by playing into their fears. Looking at voter demographics, this was his core group of supporters. This was fact based, not name calling.
All his speeches were geared to those on a 4th grade level. other Republican nominees spoke at an 8th grade level and above.
And it worked. Maybe people should learn to speak to everyone and not just people that are privileged enough for higher education.
I've gone through all the stages of loss last night and this morning. Anger, despair, hopelessness. And I've just come to this. Let's be the change we desire ladies. Let's be more proactive than just voting to effect this change. First order of business, protect the vulnerable. LGTBQ, persons of color, immigrants, Muslims, women, the disabled, the uninsured... I'm probably forgetting some. I'm going to start doing what I can from my little corner of the world to make a better world for my little on and all of us. Maybe this was the wakeup call we needed.....
Perhaps this is unpopular but I don't think all opinions are deserving of respect, particularly when the policies enacted as result restrict the rights and freedom of others. I respect working together, compromise, and drawing from logic. I can't respect misogyny, racism, sexism, xenophobia. I will not politely accept that our new leader is the preferred candidate of the KKK. I do not see this as a political issue, it is a human issue.
If your opinion is that someone who says he can grab women by the pussy because he's a star is a good option for president, that does lower my level of respect.
@Wino0920 once again, these are purely the voter demographics.
I'm not suggesting that all are uninformed, but I am saying that he did purposively target a certain demographic with his techniques.
I'm not talking about the uneducated comments. I am talking about names like stupid, racist, blindness. Name calling.
I can get into Hillary demographic as well but still not call them names just because they are from a certain demographic.
I wasn't trying to offend anyone when I said some people were blinded by party lines. I'm speaking from experience. I have many loved ones who would never tolerate a male family member speaking about women the way Trump has, but when he said those things they laughed and brushed it off, because they identify as republicans. I don't know how else to explain that. Some people voted blindly. Some people voted with their eyes wide open in excitement. And some were simply voting against Hillary and not necessarily for Trump. It's just a fact. It's not an insult.
This is pretty problematic. He says that Mexico is "sending us" drug dealers and rapists. He concedes that there might be some good people, but we just can't be sure.
The immigrants I know left to get away from drug violence and provide a better quality of life for their families. Implying that immigrants are probably criminals who can't be trusted is wreckless at best and racist at worst.
We could debate this until the next election, but it won't change anything, let alone people's opinions. I know several people who voted for him, but they will at least concede that he has a track record of making minority groups somehow less than or less important. I don't know how this can be denied.
It's almost lunchtime, and I've literally done no work today. Just been reading about the election and for some reason stalking Facebook. Seeing everyone's crazy(/racism/sexism/pure ignorance) out on display! It's a car wreck - don't want to look but just can't help it...
And it worked. Maybe people should learn to speak to everyone and not just people that are privileged enough for higher education.
I have no qualms about whether someone is educated or not. College is expensive and if you ask recent grads, in a lot of cases it's worthless. However when you go to college there is no class on common decency and demeanor. That's not a pre-req to your degree. It also doesn't take a high school diploma to understand that calling an entire race criminals and rapists is disgusting and racist. Also learning not to discuss women as if they are objects only there for your own sexual desires wasn't in my curriculum. But maybe that's because I'm a woman... maybe it was in one of the guy classes... I didn't think that by 'speaking to everyone' you have to lack class and say extremely inappropriate things. If that's the case I have a BIL who is by your account perfect for the job. Hell he'd sweep that rust belt right up!
And it worked. Maybe people should learn to speak to everyone and not just people that are privileged enough for higher education.
I have no qualms about whether someone is educated or not. College is expensive and if you ask recent grads, in a lot of cases it's worthless. However when you go to college there is no class on common decency and demeanor. That's not a pre-req to your degree. It also doesn't take a high school diploma to understand that calling an entire race criminals and rapists is disgusting and racist. Also learning not to discuss women as if they are objects only there for your own sexual desires wasn't in my curriculum. But maybe that's because I'm a woman... maybe it was in one of the guy classes... I didn't think that by 'speaking to everyone' you have to lack class and say extremely inappropriate things. If that's the case I have a BIL who is by your account perfect for the job. Hell he'd sweep that rust belt right up!
so now your saying he spoke without class? Is that what speaking to lower education means? Your original comment was about how he spoke to people with educations of the fourth grade. I'm trying to figure out what one has to do with another. What does speaking to people with lower education mean? I'd really hate to be an underprivileged person of any race and sex around you.
Again, with he called a whole race, rapist. Pretty sure he didn't say that. Even in the video posted earlier.
And it worked. Maybe people should learn to speak to everyone and not just people that are privileged enough for higher education.
I have no qualms about whether someone is educated or not. College is expensive and if you ask recent grads, in a lot of cases it's worthless. However when you go to college there is no class on common decency and demeanor. That's not a pre-req to your degree. It also doesn't take a high school diploma to understand that calling an entire race criminals and rapists is disgusting and racist. Also learning not to discuss women as if they are objects only there for your own sexual desires wasn't in my curriculum. But maybe that's because I'm a woman... maybe it was in one of the guy classes... I didn't think that by 'speaking to everyone' you have to lack class and say extremely inappropriate things. If that's the case I have a BIL who is by your account perfect for the job. Hell he'd sweep that rust belt right up!
so now your saying he spoke without class? Is that what speaking to lower education means? Your original comment was about how he spoke to people with educations of the fourth grade. I'm trying to figure out what one has to do with another. What does speaking to people with lower education mean? I'd really hate to be an underprivileged person of any race and sex around you.
Again, with he called a whole race, rapist. Pretty sure he didn't say that. Even in the video posted earlier.
Yes, he did speak without class. He spoke with disregard for so many cultures. He spoke with rhetoric. He spoke with an intent to insight fear. And for whatever crazy reason, this appealed to certain statistically identifiable groups of people across the country.
And it worked. Maybe people should learn to speak to everyone and not just people that are privileged enough for higher education.
I have no qualms about whether someone is educated or not. College is expensive and if you ask recent grads, in a lot of cases it's worthless. However when you go to college there is no class on common decency and demeanor. That's not a pre-req to your degree. It also doesn't take a high school diploma to understand that calling an entire race criminals and rapists is disgusting and racist. Also learning not to discuss women as if they are objects only there for your own sexual desires wasn't in my curriculum. But maybe that's because I'm a woman... maybe it was in one of the guy classes... I didn't think that by 'speaking to everyone' you have to lack class and say extremely inappropriate things. If that's the case I have a BIL who is by your account perfect for the job. Hell he'd sweep that rust belt right up!
so now your saying he spoke without class? Is that what speaking to lower education means? Your original comment was about how he spoke to people with educations of the fourth grade. I'm trying to figure out what one has to do with another. What does speaking to people with lower education mean? I'd really hate to be an underprivileged person of any race and sex around you.
Again, with he called a whole race, rapist. Pretty sure he didn't say that. Even in the video posted earlier.
Yes, he said 'they' rape our women.
He also called for violence to those that disagreed with him. this was in speeches to his protestors.
He also accused a woman of being in the midst of that time of month.
He said 'the blacks' are living in poverty with no education. That is what he knows about 'the blacks'.
@QueenNub I thought I was responding to you earlier but I was actually responding to @berg sorry that was my bad.
"They" as an illegal immigrants.
I can't defend everything he has said. No one can defend everything that Hillary has said or done. I feel people had to choose their voting strategies and go with it.
@QueenNub I thought I was responding to you earlier but I was actually responding to @berg sorry that was my bad.
"They" as an illegal immigrants.
I can't defend everything he has said. No one can defend everything that Hillary has said or done. I feel people had to choose their voting strategies and go with it.
Let's not forget Trump has called for violence against protestors more than I can count. He has also said violence against protestors was 'appropriate'.
This man is void of human dignity...policy aside. if Obama said half the shit he said, the country would NEVER laugh it off. Oh the fucking privilege!
so now your saying he spoke without class? Is that what speaking to lower education means? Your original comment was about how he spoke to people with educations of the fourth grade. I'm trying to figure out what one has to do with another. What does speaking to people with lower education mean? I'd really hate to be an underprivileged person of any race and sex around you.
Again, with he called a whole race, rapist. Pretty sure he didn't say that. Even in the video posted earlier.
To the bolded point, I never said that. Someone else did. So you know, read tags. I am saying, without a doubt that he spoke without class. I actually don't believe there is a 'way' to speak to people with, as you have called it, 'lower education' (I'm not sure what lower education means, tbh). The point I was trying to make is that you don't have to have a higher education to realize that some of his rhetoric was inappropriate and well, flat out racist (and yes he did say it, it was huge talking point for weeks). You don't have to have a degree or a high school diploma to understand that every person who walks this earth matters, no matter their race, religion, beliefs, or opinions. If speaking to 'everyone' as you've stated, means speaking like Trump, well then I guess I over-estimated our country's public education system. It's funny that you say you'd hate to be around me as a minority or underprivileged person. I wouldn't hate to be around you regardless of you voting for a man who has numerous sexual assault accusations, hired illegal immigrants to build his hotels but now wants them all deported, said he doesn't handle his money he let's 'the Jews' do that, and as a married man said that women let him do anything because he's a star. You voted the way you felt was right for you and I can respect that. That's why I live in America. I just don't agree in the idea that everyone should speak like him in order to reach 'everyday' Americans. I think it's selling our country short. You don't need a degree to speak with respect, simple as that.
In somewhat unrelated news, I'm seeing my candidate brought in less than .5% of the vote nationwide. I think that is double what I expected. Anyone want to chat board organization. (God I kinda miss that guy right about now... hell I'll even take another 4 years of Obama)
@berg I'm sorry , you are right, I was speaking to Queennub and accidentally quoted you. My bad!
When did I confuse class with education? when I made the statement regarding Trump's gradr level of speech. I made a general statement that I found interesting. how am I confusing education with class? even though, Trump is about as classless as they come.
@QueenNub I thought I was responding to you earlier but I was actually responding to @berg sorry that was my bad.
"They" as an illegal immigrants.
I can't defend everything he has said. No one can defend everything that Hillary has said or done. I feel people had to choose their voting strategies and go with it.
But please don't confuse class and education.
That's your opinion of what he was trying to do with his comments. I see it differently, not because I'm a racist. Legal citizens do rape and murder and go to jail. I don't want to pay for illegal criminals.
Im still trying to understand what you meant when you said he speaks to people with 4rth grade level of education.
Hillary voted for the wall until it made Donald look bad. Every president before Trump has been deporting illegals, trying with criminals first, yet now it's racist.
@QueenNub I thought I was responding to you earlier but I was actually responding to @berg sorry that was my bad.
"They" as an illegal immigrants.
I can't defend everything he has said. No one can defend everything that Hillary has said or done. I feel people had to choose their voting strategies and go with it.
But please don't confuse class and education.
That's your opinion of what he was trying to do with his comments. I see it differently, not because I'm a racist. Legal citizens do rape and murder and go to jail. I don't want to pay for illegal criminals.
Im still trying to understand what you meant when you said he speaks to people with 4rth grade level of education.
Hillary voted for the wall until it made Donald look bad. Every president before Trump has been deporting illegals, trying with criminals first, yet now it's racist.
I didn't mean anything by it besides relaying an interesting finding I came across. I've told you this before. you commented that 'it worked' and I commented no further. it obviously worked. anything else on this subject?
You can be hard on illegal immigrants without invoking hate and racism, right? he wasn't concerned with cost of exportation as he was with keeping our women safe.
Re: Election 2016 Thread
I believe this too. I mean I didn't personally vote for him, but he's a businessman. I work with businessmen all day every day, and they will say whatever needs to be said to get a deal done, regardless of what they actually believe or what they actually plan to follow through on. I do not believe that Trump is half as conservative as he pretended to be during his campaign - which is why so many Republicans in Washington dislike him.
I can completely understand why people didn't want to vote for Hillary - she was not a perfect candidate, far from it, and especially if you are unhappy with the current government, it makes sense to want to go in a different direction. I just hope that Trump is serious, and isn't going to have a hissy fit in a year when he realizes how relatively little power a President actually has, and step down. Because he's scary, but I don't know that I believe he can personally get anything truly scary done. Pence is a much scarier option in my opinion, because he knows how the game works. And a quick look at his legislation in Indiana scares the shit out of me.
As I said yesterday, I've voted pretty evenly for Democrats and Republicans over my lifetime, but I find it truly difficult to vote for men who believe they should control a woman's reproductive system, or straight people who believe that homosexuals aren't real and shouldn't have basic human rights. Pence checks both boxes there, so I just need Trump to stay in office and not step down or get impeached. And it would be nice if Trump would actually listen to his daughter a little, because a nationally mandated maternity leave policy would be a great help to a lot of women who cannot afford to take necessary time off of work to bond with their newborns. It really might not be that bad. The Dems need to find a perfect candidate in 4 years though. My personal choice would be Kristen Gillibrand, but she might be too young still at that point.
That said... I ALWAYS respect the political opinions of others. It saddens me that so many across the country today are assuming "My countrymen are racist because they voted for Trump". "My countrymen lack intelligence because they voted for Trump". "My countrymen are bigoted and sexist because they voted for Trump". Be upset with the outcome all you want (I'm not happy about it either), but lets not tear down Trump's supporters in the process. Be angry at Trump and the delivery of his message, but don't take this out on your peers.
Now we need to come together as a country. I am friends with several who voted for Trump and I can tell you that they are kind, educated individuals spanning various ethnic backgrounds and religions. They are fed up with the corruption in Washington. They were not moved by any of the other candidates. They felt attacked and/or turned off by recent policies put into place under President Obama and feared the same would continue under Clinton. I am not happy about their vote, but I respect it and I respect them. I am not ashamed of my country today. This is an amazing country and to anyone who thinks otherwise I say "there's the door". My father is an immigrant and his family did everything they had to in order to enter and serve the country. I value my citizenship here and value the many freedoms this country grants us. I hope everyone upset by the outcome can find peace and stand unified together as we try to figure out the next 4 years.
I'm not suggesting that all are uninformed, but I am saying that he did purposively target a certain demographic with his techniques.
Me: 29 DH: 35
Married: 9/29/12
DS #1: 3/8/15I can get into Hillary demographic as well but still not call them names just because they are from a certain demographic.
Trump called his supporters and non supporters names. Nasty woman, it must be that time of months, Mexicans are rapists, it goes on. if you are okay with him calling you names, don't complain because those that see Trump for who he is calls his supporters what he is. you cannot vote for Trump and ask for unity. this man was divisive from the very start.
He's hateful...policy aside.
Illegal criminals need to leave does not equal racism like the media and Trump haters want me to believe.
If I say American citizens that commit crimes need to be locked up make me unpatriotic?!
Lets talk about being blind. Blue states turned red. I live in a blue area and I can't believe how red it turned. That to me says that people have seen something and were ready to admit it and change it. Maybe it's time to maybe to check yourself.
You say Trump uses fear, but Hillary supporters are using name calling and stereotyping.
This is pretty problematic. He says that Mexico is "sending us" drug dealers and rapists. He concedes that there might be some good people, but we just can't be sure.
The immigrants I know left to get away from drug violence and provide a better quality of life for their families. Implying that immigrants are probably criminals who can't be trusted is wreckless at best and racist at worst.
We could debate this until the next election, but it won't change anything, let alone people's opinions. I know several people who voted for him, but they will at least concede that he has a track record of making minority groups somehow less than or less important. I don't know how this can be denied.
TTC #1 since 9/2015
BFP #1 1/14/16, MC 3/23/16
BFP #2 9/21/2016, EDD 5/30/2017
My heart was just broken this morning. I was naively certain there wasn't enough hatred out there to elect such a candidate.
DD2 8.22.13
MMC 1.4.17 at 16w
Expecting #3, EDD 1.29.18
I didn't think that by 'speaking to everyone' you have to lack class and say extremely inappropriate things. If that's the case I have a BIL who is by your account perfect for the job. Hell he'd sweep that rust belt right up!
Again, with he called a whole race, rapist. Pretty sure he didn't say that. Even in the video posted earlier.
DS1 - 7/2011, DD 12/2012, DS2 - 4/2014, MMC - 12/2015
He also called for violence to those that disagreed with him. this was in speeches to his protestors.
He also accused a woman of being in the midst of that time of month.
He said 'the blacks' are living in poverty with no education. That is what he knows about 'the blacks'.
He mocked a disabled person on TV.
I can go on? This is public knowledge.
"They" as an illegal immigrants.
I can't defend everything he has said. No one can defend everything that Hillary has said or done. I feel people had to choose their voting strategies and go with it.
But please don't confuse class and education.
When did I confuse class and education?
The level of hate that Trump displays is equivalent to white supremacist. plus the statements were plentiful.
Wino0920 said:
This man is void of human dignity...policy aside. if Obama said half the shit he said, the country would NEVER laugh it off. Oh the fucking privilege!
Anyone want to chat board organization.
(God I kinda miss that guy right about now... hell I'll even take another 4 years of Obama)
@Elyse1384
Im still trying to understand what you meant when you said he speaks to people with 4rth grade level of education.
Hillary voted for the wall until it made Donald look bad. Every president before Trump has been deporting illegals, trying with criminals first, yet now it's racist.
You can be hard on illegal immigrants without invoking hate and racism, right? he wasn't concerned with cost of exportation as he was with keeping our women safe.
I never called you a racist.