Co-sleeping

Phil413

I know it's really early to talk about co-sleeping, but I found this horror story in a local news outlet. Basically, a real live case against co-sleeping where the mother is being charged. I just thought I would share.

https://6abc.com/news/pa-mom-charged-after-baby-dies-while-sleeping-in-same-bed/1503795/

kap1988

She suffocated her own baby not once but twice??? Sooooo terrible.

kjd291

I'm a huge co-sleeping advocate, of course taking precautions like removing pillows and blankets and knowing whether you are someone that moves around in your sleep, and never doing so if you've had anything to drink or otherwise impair yourself.   But, UO: I don't think you need to post scary stories like this for FTMs, or to pass guilt onto any mom that co-sleeps as if we're risking killing our children.  I get co-sleeping has a bad rap, and most doctors "nay nay" it, but there are equal stories that support co-sleeping being best for baby. 

jmacd22

I never liked co-sleeping. I had a former employee tell me her 10 yo daughter still slept in the bed with them and it made me cringe. I trained my DD from a young age to sleep in her crib then in her own bed. I just need my own space. I'm that parent who doesn't relate at all to the parents who talk about their kids taking up all the space in their beds. I think it's more common than uncommon so I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority on this and I'm ok with that. 

wintersong

I'm sure I'll get slammed for this, but our board needs drama so I'll go for it.

I cosleep, and I feel completely safe. I research how to be safe though. My reaction isnt usually  "what a horrible woman," but "how tragic." I would never recommend everyone to cosleep....the worst tragedies can come out of ignorance, not malice. This story is just weird to me. I don't understand how it could happen twice. This is definitely unusual in terms of other stories I've heard for sure.

I'm not exactly opposed to people sharing stories like this though like a pp. I think they point to the need to teach people how to be safe. Its important to be aware that this happens (in America) all too frequently.

My issue is when news stories report on a tragedy in a way that makes it seem like all bedshaing is inherently unsafe. It creates situations where moms try to nurse or comfort baby in a rocking chair or sofa at night and fall asleep, which is horribly dangerous. To say no bedsharing period like the aap is not only inaccurate, it can be harmful. 

My anecdote: I started Cosleeping with my son in a crib in the room. I would get up to nurse and put him back. This worked out okay but after about a week I accidentally fell asleep with him in the bed twice. This freaked me out because the conditions were definitely not okay. I research How to keep him with me safely to avoid a tragedy like the one in the article.

Alos, you can cosleep without bedsharing. Cosleepers are a great way to keep baby on a separate surface but close by. They also make baskets for your bed that serve a similar purpose....I have not studied their safety though because 

(nonexhausrtive) List of bedsharing rules:
- never by dad. Baby should be on the outside of the bed by mom.
- No bed rails with gaps between the mattress and rail, even small ones. No gap between head board and mattress. 
- No pillows at all near baby's head. I actually slept with a pregnancy pillow behind my back snakes under my head so that it couldn't slip forward.
- No comforter....just dress as warm as baby
- No swaddling
- Tie up long hair
- Never bedshare f you are a smoker or obese or have some kind of sleep disorder
- Don't bedshare if you have had alcohol or take medicine that increases drowsiness
- Dress baby less warmly than you would it she were sleeping alone

Floor beds are great for family beds. 

wintersong

mcdonald-bailey said:

I never liked co-sleeping. I had a former employee tell me her 10 yo daughter still slept in the bed with them and it made me cringe. I trained my DD from a young age to sleep in her crib then in her own bed. I just need my own space. I'm that parent who doesn't relate at all to the parents who talk about their kids taking up all the space in their beds. I think it's more common than uncommon so I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority on this and I'm ok with that. 

That's cool. I like it when people know what they need and make no apologies for it. Some people so need their own space....even some babies are like that! I definitely know a 9 month old that sleeps so much better when he's not touching anyone....he needs to spread out. Plus that picture is pretty accurate for toddlers, so ftms go in to this with your eyes open, lol!

kjd291

@longliveregina thanks for saying it better than me!!  I didn't mean don't share your opinion or articles--it was like you said a frustrating choice of article that makes a generalization of all co-sleeping and anyone who co-sleeps to be knowingly endangering their children. 

@mcdonald-bailey I'm not a bedsharing fan with older kids either!! I like having my space for sleeping and a space for my husband and I to have "our space".  I am just a big fan of co-sleeping with babies! (Esp when its recommended all babes sleep in the same room with adults) I personally co-slept with DD until she was rolling over on her own, then transitioned her to her own crib. 

I firmly believe in whatever works best for each mama!! But if co-sleeping works best for you--don't feel guilty and feel like you need to hide it. Like LLRegina said: do your research and make sure you do it safely, but have no shame!! 

wintersong

Also my post was long so I wanted to make a tl;dr language point:

Cosleeping is not synonymous with bed sharing. Bedsharing is a type of Cosleeping. The article uses the phrase wrong. 

Cosleeping is sharing a room. It is recommended that all parents to this to at least 6 months because it has been proven to reduce sids. You can do this on two different surfaces. 

Bedsharing is when baby and mom share the same surface. This can be safe but is not always. For some people it is never safe. For others it is safest. Do your own research. 

jmacd22

@longliveregina thanks for the clarification. I too used the wrong phrasing because I actually did cosleep with DD. I had her crib in my room until she transitioned out of a crib. So I'm just not a fan of bed sharing. 

kap1988

I don't plan on bedsharing, because for me I can't see the benefits, I don't think I could sleep well knowing the baby is in bed with me and DH, and I don't trust myself to follow every rule every night.  But I plan to have the baby co-sleep in the room with us for the first few months because that is supposedly the safest option.  The woman in the story obviously wasn't doing it safely.  Bedsharing safely is a totally different story. I think it's important to share these stories, but I wish that the article would have highlighted how to go about doing it safely. It's like abstinence only sex-ed.  People are going to do it no matter what and they should know how to do it right.

Phil413

kjd291 said:

I'm a huge co-sleeping advocate, of course taking precautions like removing pillows and blankets and knowing whether you are someone that moves around in your sleep, and never doing so if you've had anything to drink or otherwise impair yourself.   But, UO: I don't think you need to post scary stories like this for FTMs, or to pass guilt onto any mom that co-sleeps as if we're risking killing our children.  I get co-sleeping has a bad rap, and most doctors "nay nay" it, but there are equal stories that support co-sleeping being best for baby. 

I posted this as a conversation starter. I didn't post my opinion about it and I never meant to pass judgment. Here's a counter-article for the FTMs: https://www.healthychild.com/the-benefits-of-co-sleeping/

wintersong

@Phil413 I like that you postedit! We never have controversial topics, and we are way respectful enough to handle it. This is a good one to talk about fo' sho'. (If we can avoid a circumcision debate altogether though it be cool with that, lol.) 

kap1988

@Phil413 The Bump has been so mild lately it's kind of nice to have a little debate going on.

kjd291

Phil413 said:

kjd291 said:

I'm a huge co-sleeping advocate, of course taking precautions like removing pillows and blankets and knowing whether you are someone that moves around in your sleep, and never doing so if you've had anything to drink or otherwise impair yourself.   But, UO: I don't think you need to post scary stories like this for FTMs, or to pass guilt onto any mom that co-sleeps as if we're risking killing our children.  I get co-sleeping has a bad rap, and most doctors "nay nay" it, but there are equal stories that support co-sleeping being best for baby. 

I posted this as a conversation starter. I didn't post my opinion about it and I never meant to pass judgment. Here's a counter-article for the FTMs: https://www.healthychild.com/the-benefits-of-co-sleeping/

Sorry to assume you had that opinion and go into crazy defensive mom mode. It wasn't obvious to me from your post that you were just bringing it up as a conversation starter. Came across as one sided-more the article than you-so sorry for jumping to conclusions and attacking you for the article choice.  And I dont think it's "too early" at all for this topic! Like PPs have said, our board could use some drama and good discussion.

kaylaef

Every night my 11 month old sleeps in his crib. Most nights he's there til we get up in the morning.  But some nights...some nights this mama just can't with teething and this pregnancy wiping me out.  So he comes in for snuggles. He slept in the bassinet in our room til he was 6 or so months. Definitely easiest for breast feeding too! I don't have much of an opinion on bedsharing, I feel if your educated and know what works best for you as a familial unit, then do it.  

Gators&BoSox

Before DS I never planned on bed sharing and planned on keeping him in the bassinet in our room. Welllll DS had awful reflux and would not sleep on his back and would wake whenever we put him in his swing or bassinet and scream in pain. So for the first 9 months of DS' life we bed shared. I looked up how to do it safely as PP's have mentioned and it worked for us until he was able to move to his crib. I would definitely prefer not to bed share with this babe as I like to have my own space and sleep with DH but we will see what happens.

jem89

We always have our babes in a bassinet in our room for the first few months but I have no brought them into our bed. This is mainly because DH is a crazy sleeper and I was too neevous about it. However, after 3 years of sleeping perfectly in her own bed, DD1 has moved into my bed this summer so I cannot say my method kept me from dealing with that "H" shaped sleeping method! Lol 
I am not exactly against these posts but as someone with anxiety, I felt bombarded with the message that everything would cause SIDS when we were in the hospital. I understand educating others but maybe we should have a TW? 

Bok Bagok

 I never ever wanted to bed share with my daughter, but it happened. It started out as co-sleeping and through breastfeeding/exhaustion before long we started to bed share. I hardly slept because I was so terrified of suffocating her.  However, I admit I loved having her next to me. It was like torture every night, between having her actually sleep and also be next to her, vs the fears I had about her suffocating.  I ended up buying this crazy over priced sidecar type bassinet ( I don't even see it sold anywhere anymore and it's shame cause it was a wonderful design) that attached to our bed and one of those Snuza baby alarms ( it clips onto their diaper and will sound an alarm if they stop breathing). The side car was great because we were at the same height/level but on separate surfaces, I could put my hand/arm in there next to her, that was enough to comfort her through the night. The alarm gave me added peace of mind knowing if it didn't detect her breathing it would alarm. I plan on doing the same arrangements with this baby. I attached a picture (not of mine, because all my pictures of it show how messy my bedroom was/is) of the co-sleeper, it was called a culla belly co-sleeper, I don't know why they don't have more of these types of co-sleepers. I know there's that "arms reach" one but my bed frame had a large ledge/frame around it that didn't allow a bassinet to be pulled flush to the side of my bed. 

As others have stated, co-sleeping is safe. Bed sharing makes me super nervous even though I was guilty of doing it for a time. 

dubcompanion

I prefer to have LO co-sleep (not bed-share) with us, but we have two cats that sleep in our bedroom too. I'm nervous about them being all up on baby's sleeping surface. One of my cats is extremely attached to me and will yowl all night if he's separated from me. Obviously, baby > cat. However, if it's determined that it's best to have the cats sleep in a separate room while baby co-sleeps with us, we're still going to have to find a way to do that without a cat keeping all of us humans awake. Uff. I don't like to think about all this for very long, because it stresses me out.

datalover13

We coslept for the first few months (and will again) but didn't usually bedshare because DH is a heavy sleeper. We also formula fed, if I had breastfed bedsharing might have happened more often. I'm all for what works for your family, as long as you're safe.
I will say, DS is 2.5 now and in a toddler bed and ends up in our bed some nights (last night the thunder scared him) and it's just easier to get him back to sleep in our bed and then take him back later. That "H" pic is very accurate lol. He doesn't do it all the time and won't do it forever, so I'm okay with the occasional slumber party.

Phil413

@kjd291 No probs! In hindsight I should have posted a counter-article for the FTMs, etc. so I did later, and I see your point. It's just that I saw that article and emotionally reacted and though I would share with the group.
FWIW, we chose not to co-sleep but that was what worked for us. I just couldn't sleep well because I kept waking up with every little squirm and coo that she would make. She transitioned to her crib as soon as she slept through the night. We had her in a bassinet until that point. One time we did bed share when we were on vacation because the crib that they gave us left much to be desired and she refused to sleep in it. I think for most things parenting you just do your research and go with what works best for your family.

chrlyr

We actually bedshared from about 8 months until he was 3.5 more out of necessity than anything else. It was the only way he would sleep. I was totally one of those people who said I would never do it. It was a very hard habit to break and I wouldn't do it again if I could help it.

Jparisi926

I love that this has brought up strong reactions both for and against and we're all still standing!! I am one of the hesitant STMS due to being on my first board for the mass exodus! 

I ended up bedsharing from week 1 because my guy wouldn't sleep! Not in the bassinet if it was flat, not if it was propped up, not in the rock n play, not in his actual crib, not even in the swing which I wasn't ok with doing anyway while I slept in fear of head rolling/airway constriction. 

the only way I could get him to sleep was to nurse and then he'd fall asleep on his belly against my chest. I was able to roll him to his back but more then I would like to admit, I would open my eyes after thinking he just fell asleep and realize I had him on my chest as I slept for several hours. **GASP**. That terrified me more then the bedsharing idea! So... DH and I took the proper measures to come up with a solution we were  comfortable with and purchased a Moses Basket that I could nurse DS in and then remove myself. It worked really really well. We all got the much needed sleep, we weren't petrified of suffocating our precious infant and the babe was comforted by the close proximity to mama! 

sunshine507

Loving this thread in general because I know zero about any of this. DH and I are both active sleepers, so I'm intrigued by these mini bedside cribs... if you use one at night for the baby for the first months, is it worth buying a larger crib for the nursery right off the bat? Does it get used much? 

Bok Bagok

@sunshine507 I still used my big crib a lot, for naps and also a safe place to put baby while I was in her room doing laundry/stocking diapers/cleaning up. I like to have lots of options Plus when it was time for her to move out of our bedroom she was already familiar with being in the crib. I can't say if there would have actually been a problem had we introduced the crib later on (probably not),  but it seemed logical to me. 

kiyamurph

 @sunshine507 Even if the baby sleeps in your room at the start, you'll still want to have the crib set up and ready to go. The last thing you want to do is have to set up the nursery after baby is home because you'll be way too exhausted. We co-slept for 6 months with our little guy sleeping in a Rock n Play next to my side of the bed. At 2 he's still in his crib since he sleeps through the night in it and he's not being moved anytime soon. If it ain't broke and all that. The crib definitely gets lots of use. 

Ivorytower2

We co-slept when the 4 month sleep regression began (talk about scaring FTMs) until we felt OK with modified sleep training around 7 months.

It was nice in some ways, but I was gladddd when it was over

kjd291

@sunshine507 I didn't get the nursery set up till around 1mo after baby, because we moved homes right when babe was arriving:  it ended up not mattering at all. DD slept in our room in a bassinet or bed-sharing, and during the day in her bouncer/rocker downstairs or in car seat on the go.  She didn't sleep in her crib till around 6mo.  This time around, I'm also not setting up a space for baby till close to 4mo. because they'll be in my room for at least that long.  so IMO-no, you don't need a nursery and crib set up pre-baby.

wintersong

Bok Bagok what is that cosleeper called? It looks awesome.

AnonnAni

Im another advocate of co- sleeping I actually still sleep with my soon to be 2yr old baby and I coslept with my oldest child until he was almost to as well and honestly I don't foresee the baby getting out of my bed anytime soon specially since I'm still nursing her.  I dont know how thia will work with a newborn though. 

I feel its all about the precautions that you take. Pillows blankets etc.  My husband and I are both warmer sleepers so to keep us more uncomfortable  we dont use blankets cuz of the baby, but we run a fan as well so we just live through the constant lighter sleep cuz we are kinda cold all night (dress her for the colder temp obviously).  Its not ideal for us an my other kids hate it and dont come in our bed often bc of it and maybe its just our strange thinking but we feel its keeps us in a lighter sleep so we are more aware of the baby in the bed.  And in truth even without being pregnant i pee alllllllllllll night so interrupted light sleep was my life anyways.

Bok Bagok

@longliveregina I think it's called the Culla Belly co-sleeper, I bought it online in 2014 and it was super hard to find. I googled it earlier this month to see if has become more mainstream but I actually can't find a single place that sells it  

npaulie

This might be a dumb question, but for those of you who co-slept for a long time, how does that not affect your intimacy with your partner? I mean, having a 1 year old in your bed isn't really conducive to having intimate time with each other? Again, I'm asking this question ignorantly as a FTM, but I imagine it would impact it a lot?

kjd291

@npaulie - I kept asking my DH if he cared-because I was worried about this.  But he also LOVED having DD nearby. Baby brings a different kind of awesome intimacy.  But for sex--we still found a way to have it regularly... During nap times, sneaking out of bed in the morning and doing it elsewhere.  

EALasagna45

Do we have the same cat @dubcompanion?! Seriously I could have written exactly what you said verbatim. One of our cats is part Maine Coon so he is MASSIVE but he's a cuddle bug and I'm honestly terrified of him jumping up in the crib/RNP, ect and trying to sleep with the baby. I have no idea how I'm going to prevent him from doing that. If he's locked out of the room he'll meow and scratch at the door all night. He's been extra sweet since I've gotten KU too and he's been sleeping across my neck life a scarf! Ugh it stresses me out too. I wish there was an easy answer here! 

I really appreciate everybody's honesty and thoughts on both sides of this coin. As a FTM I am seriously clueless and am so thankful for all the insight this board provides! 

dubcompanion

@EALasagna45 Mine is part-Siamese. (I'd LOVE to have a Maine Coon - even a partly one. They're so purdy!) Yeah, even if we put the cats in the guest bedroom, we'd hear him and it'd drive me nuts - even if it's technically something we could sleep through with two doors and a hallway separating us. I also just don't like having the cat in distress for that long, and I'd pay for it during the day. He'd be EXTRA clingy and even more ambivalent of me leaving him - even just to go to another room.

We might end up just putting the baby in the nursery and letting the cats keep their space. I asked DH about the topic, and he said, "Eh, that's what baby monitors are for." I'll be researching ways to nurse the baby in a manner that, should I fall asleep while doing so, is a safe place to be that's not in bed (since I'll be doing nightly feedings in the nursery).

Cbeanz

"Never say never," I always say!  I was very opposed to bed sharing and fought it with our first.  But it's a level of sleep deprivation like no other - so H and I were finding ourselves falling asleep in a rocking chair with her - WAYYYY more dangerous than a safe bed sharing arrangement.  Once I even fell asleep holding her on the couch - OMG it still haunts me almost 4 years later!

I sleep extremely lightly (H is an active deep sleeper) so with #2 I was in the guest room with her on my chest, and I would just nod off here and there. But I got more sleep that way than having her cry in the bassinet all night. It's all just so hard, you find what works for you.

I could rest feeling her little body breathing.  But now I think I'll get one of those alarms pp mentioned.  Great idea!

That article is awful and something else was going on in that home.

ihateusernames*

npaulie said:

This might be a dumb question, but for those of you who co-slept for a long time, how does that not affect your intimacy with your partner? I mean, having a 1 year old in your bed isn't really conducive to having intimate time with each other? Again, I'm asking this question ignorantly as a FTM, but I imagine it would impact it a lot?

Sex doesn't have to happen in your bed right before sleeping we got creative, and have a spare room.


as for fear mongering the co-sleepers (OP and PP) I've read equally scary horror stories about cot death. Just yesterday I ready the one about a high thermostat (quit reading early because it was sad). i don't choose to post those because I don't feel that we should make our parenting choices based on fear. My husband and I made our choice after a lot of reading (three in a bed) and visits with our doctor who helped us set up a safe co-sleeping environment.

happy sleep arrangements to you all!

Cbeanz

@Phil413 WAIT.  You said LOCAL news outlet That story was from my hometown!  You're in Southeast PA? I grew up in Lancaster.  (Haven't lived there since 2002 though.)

EALasagna45

@dubcompanion I loveeeee Siamese cats!! I'm contemplating picking up one of those monitors that can detect your baby's breathing so hopefully that will eliminate some of the anxiety. I guess we'll be figuring out things as we go 

edit: spelling 

nursemama-2

I also agree with never day never.  My first never slept with us, totally independent and preferred her space. My second loved being held and near someone. When you have a 22 month old as well, you need to do what you have to do to get some rest.

Research how to do it properly. Do it safely.  Baby on their back to sleep without blankets is so important whether they are with you or in their crib. 

peony2418

As a FTM, I found this thread really interesting, and it raised issues I had never considered (i.e.-co-sleeping may reduce the chance of SIDS).  A number of the articles I've looked at this AM use co-sleeping and bed-sharing kind of interchangeably, so I'm a little confused. 

If you co-sleep, but don't bed-share (for example, the baby sleeps in a crib next to and not attached to the bed) do you get similar benefits with the reduction of SIDS, or are those benefits mainly found with bed-sharing or mattresses that attach to the bed?  I'll post anything I can find that addresses the difference in the benefit.