We all understand that the question was on a wrong thread but the responder should have simply correct her by saying this is not the right thread for questions or please lets talk about this on a new post without being that rude, to me it was an attack not a correction.
That is essentially exactly what she did, in addition to asking for both posts to be deleted so it didn't cause a scene. How was she rude?
Are epidurals standard procedure in America? Does anyone have a natural or water birth?
Honestly, I don't think it should matter to you what anyone else's birthplan is, or whether or not they get an epidural. Also, am tagging an admin to delete this comment, as it is not a birth announcement.
This is not a thread to be judgemental. This is a thread where women can rejoice in one of the greatest gifts ever given to them.
We all understand that the question was on a wrong thread but the responder should have simply correct her by saying this is not the right thread for questions or please lets talk about this on a new post without being that rude, to me it was an attack not a correction.
That is essentially exactly what she did, in addition to asking for both posts to be deleted so it didn't cause a scene. How was she rude?
Are epidurals standard procedure in America? Does anyone have a natural or water birth?
Honestly, I don't think it should matter to you what anyone else's birthplan is, or whether or not they get an epidural. Also, am tagging an admin to delete this comment, as it is not a birth announcement.
This is not a thread to be judgemental. This is a thread where women can rejoice in one of the greatest gifts ever given to them.
@Rachelsbaby why would you tell her she has never experienced it before and will end up getting an epidural? Just because you got one doesn't mean she will. I had two without it and I'm having my third without it also. I think people should support the decision of a natural birth not scare people. She could very easily be strong enough to go without, a lot of women do.
We all understand that the question was on a wrong thread but the responder should have simply correct her by saying this is not the right thread for questions or please lets talk about this on a new post without being that rude, to me it was an attack not a correction.
That is essentially exactly what she did, in addition to asking for both posts to be deleted so it didn't cause a scene. How was she rude?
Are epidurals standard procedure in America? Does anyone have a natural or water birth?
Honestly, I don't think it should matter to you what anyone else's birthplan is, or whether or not they get an epidural. Also, am tagging an admin to delete this comment, as it is not a birth announcement.
This is not a thread to be judgemental. This is a thread where women can rejoice in one of the greatest gifts ever given to them.
Also just as an aside, I spoke to my doctor this morning at my weekly because my hospital just started offering nitrous oxide as an alternative or additional option for women during labor. I wanted to get his take on nitrous. He said that apparently it is used widely throughout Europe in place of epidurals and that many people in Europe consider birth using nitrous oxide (laughing gas) without an epidural to still be a "natural " birth.
He told me about a patient from the UK he had a year ago who said she wanted natural birth as she had previously had in the UK with her other three children. He was fine with that (he is the best doctor--he told me when we first discussed it that it is not his job to decide, but to provide information and support me in whatever decision I made). He said as they continued their discussion she said, "I can get the nitrous oxide, right?" and he was so confused because he didn't understand that she could consider a birth with medication (nitrous) to be a so-called "natural" birth. It was just interesting that there was such a cultural difference between what was considered "natural" and what wasn't in another country. Somewhere in this thread, there was a listing of statistics about America having a lot more epidurals than other countries. I would be interested to see the stats on the use of nitrous oxide in the countries with very low epidural use.
My personal position is use nothing or use whatever the heck you want--totally up to each individual mama! I do find it odd that some women would consider the use of nitrous okay be judgmental about the use of an epidural. Anyway, just an interesting tidbit.
@flodie If you're referring to my post, I was clearly talking about the United States. America is not a continent. North America is a continent and South America is a continent. I don't think anyone would be confused by my use of the term America.
Like I said, I wasn't trying to be rude. I'm just tired of people not being able to read simple directions and making a scene. If I was trying to be rude, I wouldn't have asked for BOTH comments to be deleted.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Here's the thing. If she SERIOUSLY wanted to know, she could have EASILY made a new thread.
But blatantly asking a heated question on a BIRTH ANNOUNCEMENT thread is not okay.
I have no regrets about what I did. In my opinion, it needed to be done. If you don't agree, fine. If you think I was being rude, fine. I wasn't attacking anyone.
Trust me, I can be rude if I want to be, and that was far from it.
rholbrook7 it blows my mind that you are the one being attacked over this. Honestly does it even matter if you were being rude or not? Not like you went in there and started bashing birth announcements for no good reason. You called someone out that was clearly trying to start something in the wrong place...but I guess it would have been acceptable had you been "sweet" and "loving" about it. Sorry girl.
@booksandcleverness81 thanks for posting stats! And @littlemama1227here is a nice jargon-filled medical article about nitrous use. I've cut/pasted the stats below. They're about a decade old though. reading up on it briefly leads me to believe we are really missing out by not having nitrous offered as a standard here in the US. I'll definitely be asking my OB if they have it at my hospital.
A recent U.S. survey based on interviews with a representative sample of nearly 1,600 women who gave birth in American hospitals in 2005 provides information on use of 5 pharmacologic and 9 nonpharmacologic pain-relief methods used by women during childbirth in U.S. hospitals during that year (6). The 4 pharmacologic methods used by women who gave birth vaginally were epidural or spinal analgesia (71%), parenteral narcotics (24%), nitrous oxide (1%), and pudendal or other local block injections (1%) (C. Sakala, personal communication; unpublished data, December 4, 2006). Many women used more than 1 pharmacologic method during labor, and 14 percent used no pain medication at all (7). Use of epidural or spinal analgesia by all women (vaginal plus cesarean births) increased from 63 percent in the first survey (data collected from mid-2000 to mid-2002), to 76 percent in 2005 (7). Inversely, nonuse of any pain medication fell from 20 percent in the first survey to 14 percent in 2005. The 9 nonpharmacologic methods were all used more often than nitrous oxide.
By comparison, nitrous oxide is used by the majority of women in many countries that are relatively similar to the U.S. in general socioeconomic and medical standards. Nitrous oxide was used by 48 percent of the women who gave birth in Finland in 2005 (8), and 46 percent of those who gave birth in New South Wales, the largest state in Australia, in 2004 (down from 49% in 2000) (9).
In Canada, 43 percent of women who gave birth in hospitals in British Columbia during 2004/2005 used nitrous oxide alone or in combination with other methods of pain relief, a decline of more than 2 percent since 2000/2001 (M. Klein, personal communication; data from C. Johnson, Provincial Perinatal Analyst, British Columbia Reproductive Care Program, October 30, 2006). The use of nitrous oxide was highest (50%) among women who labored in hospitals with the highest volume of births per year, and lowest (22%) in hospitals with fewer than 10 births per year, a finding that contradicts the idea that its use is higher in hospitals that cannot provide 24-hour-a-day-every-day-of-every-week access to epidurals. Nitrous oxide can also be taken to home births by midwives in British Columbia, although few carry it with them, since “most of our homebirth women are very committed and do fine without any drugs” (K. Campbell, Division of Midwifery, University of British Columbia, personal communication, October 1, 2006).
Based on data from a sample of women who gave birth in 8 locations within the United Kingdom in 2000, approximately 62 percent used nitrous oxide (J. Green, personal communication, October 8 and December 1, 2006; unpublished data from the 2000 Greater Expectations study, Mother & Infant Research Unit, University of Leeds). Forty-two percent of women who used nitrous oxide also used parenteral Demerol or other narcotics (Pethidine, meperidine), 31 percent used transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation (TENS), and 33 percent used epidural analgesia. Twenty-one percent of the entire sample used nitrous oxide but none of the 3 other methods. Including all women who used nitrous oxide, 38 percent judged it to be “very effective,” 47 percent only “partly effective,” and 15 percent “not effective at all”; 68 percent of those who used it were very pleased. Three percent of women who used it felt that they were under considerable pressure to try it; 9 percent felt “a bit” of pressure, and 86 percent said, “No, not at all”; 1 percent of women were encouraged not to use it. Its use among first-time mothers was lower compared with those having a second or higher-order baby.
@callistosmile Thanks! That is so awesome that you found those stats! It is really interesting that it is used so widely in Europe and elsewhere. My hospital literally just started offering it about two months ago and my doctor said I should think about what I want to do and can decide at any point, even right when I get there. That's sort of my take on natural v. epidural v. nitrous. I am going to just feel it out and see what I can manage. I generally have a very high tolerance for pain, but I will go with the flow and haven't made any decisions yet.
Yikes. There's so much negativity around this topic. Clearly, this is a very personal decision and highly emotional topic. Perhaps, it's best to just not discuss it...even on here. Previously (and in person, not on here), I answered ONE inquiry about my intention for birth and did feel judged...so now I just provide a neutral response to avoid the conflict. When someone asks, you don't have to share. When the topic comes up, you don't have to contribute. Keep it to yourself. We don't need others' validation for our decision. Make your own decision and be confident in it. There's nothing to discuss. This topic is a dead end. Let's not cause ourselves unwarranted stress!
I could understand why someone who is from another country may be curious about that as well.. Especially since (from what I have read) a lot of the birth announcements were also induced.. May come off overly medical to someone who doesn't know any different.
But, yes. It states clearly to only post announcements in replies.!
I could understand why someone who is from another country may be curious about that as well.. Especially since (from what I have read) a lot of the birth announcements were also induced.. May come off overly medical to someone who doesn't know any different.
But, yes. It states clearly to only post announcements in replies.!
The reason the announcements are mainly inductions is because the majority of them are early births for medical reasons. Most people haven't even reached their EDD yet. As time goes on and more moms reach full term you will see more and more women going into labor on their own.
The reason the announcements are mainly inductions is because the majority of them are early births for medical reasons. Most people haven't even reached their EDD yet. As time goes on and more moms reach full term you will see more and more women going into labor on their own.
Yes, lol. I realize that. And exactly my point. So for someone who isn't really aware - it could come off as a very medical process to be delivering in general. I'm sure that is why she asked.
My sister is visiting from Germany and we got on this topic yesterday. According to her epidurals are viewed as harmful to the infant and not typically available. What I also thought was interesting was that circumcision wasn't done until the child was older and only for religious reasons.
Personally, I believe every woman is capable of drug-free birth(assuming no complications). That's what we are built for. I just don't see the point of being in pain if I can get a pain killer. I take Advil for menstrual cramps and migraines, and don't feel bad about it. I know I will want the epidural and I am glad I have the option.
Not everyone feels that way and that's ok, but I do appreciate having the choice.
@conchispitita I'm curious as to whether they use laughing gas (nitrous oxide) in Germany or if they go totally drug free? I've heard that a lot of Europeans only use nitrous, but consider that to be better than epidurals. I'd be interested to see what your sister says!
@littlemama1227 I can't speak for Germany but in Italy I've never heard of nitrous gas being used. It's deemed as quite old fashioned. Also most hospitals resist giving you an epidural and you can only get one if you've done the appropriate paperwork in advance. During my first labor I was deadset on no epidural so didn't bother doing the paperwork. At one point I was so miserable I started screaming that I wanted the epidural but the OB nurse and midwife coached me on saying "no, you can do it without" and within the hour my DD was born. I only saw the doctor twice - once when he broke my water and the second time when he came in post-partum to give me a single stitch.
@conchispitita I'm curious as to whether they use laughing gas (nitrous oxide) in Germany or if they go totally drug free? I've heard that a lot of Europeans only use nitrous, but consider that to be better than epidurals. I'd be interested to see what your sister says!
To her knowledge they don't do anything. She also said they only give you Motrin if you are getting a c-section, but I find that a little hard to believe. It may be the mom she heard that from just felt that way post surgery
@sararegine Thank you for sharing! I feel like if someone wrote a book on this, I would read it It's all so interesting to me how it's done differently in so many places and what cultural norms are!
@conchispitita Thanks for asking her!!! I agree with you on the Motrin I don't think they are cutting anyone wide open and only giving you advil....haha
Re: Are Epidurals the Standard in America??
If I was trying to be rude, I wouldn't have asked for BOTH comments to be deleted.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Here's the thing. If she SERIOUSLY wanted to know, she could have EASILY made a new thread.
But blatantly asking a heated question on a BIRTH ANNOUNCEMENT thread is not okay.
I have no regrets about what I did. In my opinion, it needed to be done. If you don't agree, fine. If you think I was being rude, fine. I wasn't attacking anyone.
Trust me, I can be rude if I want to be, and that was far from it.
A recent U.S. survey based on interviews with a representative sample of nearly 1,600 women who gave birth in American hospitals in 2005 provides information on use of 5 pharmacologic and 9 nonpharmacologic pain-relief methods used by women during childbirth in U.S. hospitals during that year (6). The 4 pharmacologic methods used by women who gave birth vaginally were epidural or spinal analgesia (71%), parenteral narcotics (24%), nitrous oxide (1%), and pudendal or other local block injections (1%) (C. Sakala, personal communication; unpublished data, December 4, 2006). Many women used more than 1 pharmacologic method during labor, and 14 percent used no pain medication at all (7). Use of epidural or spinal analgesia by all women (vaginal plus cesarean births) increased from 63 percent in the first survey (data collected from mid-2000 to mid-2002), to 76 percent in 2005 (7). Inversely, nonuse of any pain medication fell from 20 percent in the first survey to 14 percent in 2005. The 9 nonpharmacologic methods were all used more often than nitrous oxide.
By comparison, nitrous oxide is used by the majority of women in many countries that are relatively similar to the U.S. in general socioeconomic and medical standards. Nitrous oxide was used by 48 percent of the women who gave birth in Finland in 2005 (8), and 46 percent of those who gave birth in New South Wales, the largest state in Australia, in 2004 (down from 49% in 2000) (9).
In Canada, 43 percent of women who gave birth in hospitals in British Columbia during 2004/2005 used nitrous oxide alone or in combination with other methods of pain relief, a decline of more than 2 percent since 2000/2001 (M. Klein, personal communication; data from C. Johnson, Provincial Perinatal Analyst, British Columbia Reproductive Care Program, October 30, 2006). The use of nitrous oxide was highest (50%) among women who labored in hospitals with the highest volume of births per year, and lowest (22%) in hospitals with fewer than 10 births per year, a finding that contradicts the idea that its use is higher in hospitals that cannot provide 24-hour-a-day-every-day-of-every-week access to epidurals. Nitrous oxide can also be taken to home births by midwives in British Columbia, although few carry it with them, since “most of our homebirth women are very committed and do fine without any drugs” (K. Campbell, Division of Midwifery, University of British Columbia, personal communication, October 1, 2006).
Based on data from a sample of women who gave birth in 8 locations within the United Kingdom in 2000, approximately 62 percent used nitrous oxide (J. Green, personal communication, October 8 and December 1, 2006; unpublished data from the 2000 Greater Expectations study, Mother & Infant Research Unit, University of Leeds). Forty-two percent of women who used nitrous oxide also used parenteral Demerol or other narcotics (Pethidine, meperidine), 31 percent used transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation (TENS), and 33 percent used epidural analgesia. Twenty-one percent of the entire sample used nitrous oxide but none of the 3 other methods. Including all women who used nitrous oxide, 38 percent judged it to be “very effective,” 47 percent only “partly effective,” and 15 percent “not effective at all”; 68 percent of those who used it were very pleased. Three percent of women who used it felt that they were under considerable pressure to try it; 9 percent felt “a bit” of pressure, and 86 percent said, “No, not at all”; 1 percent of women were encouraged not to use it. Its use among first-time mothers was lower compared with those having a second or higher-order baby.
But, yes. It states clearly to only post announcements in replies.!
The reason the announcements are mainly inductions is because the majority of them are early births for medical reasons. Most people haven't even reached their EDD yet. As time goes on and more moms reach full term you will see more and more women going into labor on their own.
Yes, lol. I realize that. And exactly my point. So for someone who isn't really aware - it could come off as a very medical process to be delivering in general. I'm sure that is why she asked.
Business of Being Born
This gave me a real insight into the culture of Childbirth in the USA. Very different to Europe.
Personally, I believe every woman is capable of drug-free birth(assuming no complications). That's what we are built for. I just don't see the point of being in pain if I can get a pain killer. I take Advil for menstrual cramps and migraines, and don't feel bad about it. I know I will want the epidural and I am glad I have the option.
Not everyone feels that way and that's ok, but I do appreciate having the choice.