HTT: Dying with dignity

Weljadraak

It's still Tuesday on the West coast.

Ycu2013

I support it. I can't imagine doing it myself, because I'm a coward and I'd want every last second with my H and Family, but it's easy for me to say since I have never been in that situation.

mancila60

I go back and forth too. I support it for the most part but still see some cons but I have never been in the situation or even around someone in it so that could change everything.

huntjul

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a veterinarian who doesn't support dying with dignity. It's a norm in our practices to recognize and end unrelievable suffering that we know will result in death. When it comes down to the very end of human life, I'm in favor of a person's right to choose to a reasonable extent what they want that end to look like.

[Deleted User]

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Lee81

I don't really understand how anyone could not support it.

bkeane619

My uncle had a brain tumor and his personality changed tremendously and he suffered pretty bad at the end. My Aunt basically took care of him with nurses that came to her house for a few hours a day. He was 6'5" and my Aunt is 5ft. She had to go through not only the mental pain but physical pain of taking care of him. I think if he knew how many months he lingered like that he would have chose to end his life. It was a really hard time.

carawasa

I support it. I don't know if I could ever make a decision like that, but it's understandable.

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jennlin

cdhaslag said:

Dear people who don't support it, please tell me why. I'm genuinely curious!

my husband supports it, but is lost in the "what ifs" if it were to happen to someone we know/love.

trackgirlparis

I completely support it.

PinkDahLia44

Support. I was frustrated (to the point of tears) on Monday when a hospice doctor called in to the morning show I was listening to and said that it was "sad" that Brittany didn't choose hospice bc "she was afraid of suffering and we have drugs that can take the pain away." No, you didn't listen to her. She was afraid of losing her autonomy, which is EXACTLY what those drugs would have done to her. The last thing she would have wanted was to spend her last days in a drug-induced haze. I'm mad all over again thinking about that arrogant bastard.

@jennlin, I understand why your husband is conflicted, but the way I see it, it's not up to me to decide these things for my loved ones; it's up to me to support their decisions.

KerCo51

I support it 100% and I think it's wrong that some religious leaders used their beliefs to judge her. It's her body, her decision.

Jalee85

I support it. My grandmother died a slow and painful death due to brain cancer. She basically died of dehydration I was only 2 at the time, but it was horrific and I was told more about it as I got older. I do think that it needs to be for the most extreme cases though.

PixiesDust

I support someone's decision to do so.  But dont think I would take this route if given the option

huntjul

PixiesDust said:

I support someone's decision to do so.  But dont think I would take this route if given the option

My opinion is I think everyone would choose to quit early, eventually, if they were lucid and in enough pain. 

Why put up such a fight when everyone knows the ending? I'll happily give up non-quality time if it means avoiding a drawn out, painful death process. Maybe that makes me a pansy when it comes to pain, but I am heartily against suffering that has no point.

deedee1017

I don't know how I feel.  I support people's right to choose what is best for them, but I don't know if I could do it.

deedee1017

huntjul said:

PixiesDust said:

I support someone's decision to do so.  But dont think I would take this route if given the option

My opinion is I think everyone would choose to quit early, eventually, if they were lucid and in enough pain. 

Why put up such a fight when everyone knows the ending? I'll happily give up non-quality time if it means avoiding a drawn out, painful death process. Maybe that makes me a pansy when it comes to pain, but I am heartily against suffering that has no point.

I don't know that I would.  Again, to each his/her own, but for me, I do worry about playing God.  I think at some point I'd have to leave it up to a higher power.  I hope I never am in the position to have to worry about this, but at this point in time, in my circumstances, I don't know if I could do it. 

sooner1981

Support 100%. My brother is a neurologist, and has discussed how previously normal, upstanding people in end-stage cancers with brain involvement will have radical personality shifts, including telling their loved ones super hateful, vile things, masturbating openly while grandchildren are in the room, trying to physically hurt caretakers and friends/family members, etc.

To me, a mostly intact brain is one of the things that defines me as a "human." I would consider losing my ability to control things like the events I described above to be a fate worse than death. I wouldn't have "gained" anything from being "alive" to experience being hateful and inappropriate to my friends and family--and they would never be able to truly erase those last few memories from their overall memory of me.

Not all illnesses cause the wild personality changes at the end. There are some that, with hospice support and large amounts of appropriate drugs, can cause the "drifting away peacefully" that people often associate with end-stage illness. I think both hospice (for those who choose it) and assisted suicide should be allowed and appropriately regulated.

Amjoy25

I support it, but couldn't do it myself.

skyla13

I didn't even want to vote because I am so torn. I really am. I have seen cancer ravage three of my grandparents. And in the end, I suspect they died from a morphine overdose anyway, they were in so much pain, if that makes sense. But at the same time...I dunno. I can't even articulate why I am hesitant, but I think it's the concept of a currently able-minded person ending their life. Maybe because that's scary to me? Maybe because I don't want to think about the possibility of that happening to me?

I also have a bit of religious niggling - not the idea of "playing God" but that I have personal beliefs about suffering and what it represents on this earth right now.

But even with that being said, I am not one to go bash someone else's decision when I am unclear. If this was the best decision for her, then who am I to judge that.

Amjoy25

skyla13 said:

I didn't even want to vote because I am so torn. I really am. I have seen cancer ravage three of my grandparents. And in the end, I suspect they died from a morphine overdose anyway, they were in so much pain, if that makes sense. But at the same time...I dunno. I can't even articulate why I am hesitant, but I think it's the concept of a currently able-minded person ending their life. Maybe because that's scary to me? Maybe because I don't want to think about the possibility of that happening to me?

That's my thinking too ^^

sleepy33

I support it, but I think it opens up a Pandora's box of issues about who gets to choose and when they get to choose. I would not relish having to be a part of the care team that has responsibility for overseeing this kind of thing.

sweettooth87

I support it 100%.

A few friends are very against it; they are devout Catholics. One has written at length about her opposition to it.

trackgirlparis

sweettooth87 said:

I support it 100%.

A few friends are very against it; they are devout Catholics. One has written at length about her opposition to it.

You can still be Catholic and for it...
Like my mom and I

Chrisanna0508

Someone bust out the Fry not really shocked gif because I am not for it. It opens up a whole Pandora's box of issues.

sweettooth87

trackgirlparis said:

I support it 100%. A few friends are very against it; they are devout Catholics. One has written at length about her opposition to it.

You can still be Catholic and for it... Like my mom and I

Totally agree . I hope I didn't imply that I think that you can't; however, supporting it does not align with the Church's stance. The friends I'm referring to do not stray from any of the church's stances. 

Weljadraak

So, if this were a ballot (which is what I was mockingly going for), I'd vote yes.  I usually side for anything that would give others more freedom without adversely affecting me.  

breadandbutter07 said:

I agree that it opens a can of worms of issues.  DWD would need intense regulation, and I don't like the aspect of "playing God." There are stories upon stories of people diagnosed and given ## months to live who either live well beyond the estimated timeline or even go into remission and live healthy lives for years beyond what was expected.  Allowing or encouraging DWD tells the patient that their situation is hopeless.  Just because no one has beaten a certain type of cancer yet doesn't mean that no one ever will. 

This part doesn't make sense to me.  A patient would not be encouraged to overdose on barbituates, it would just be another option.  Furthermore and lawfully, the patient MUST be of sound mind and physically able to take the medication so they're going to choose what is best for them.  Just because *sometimes* *some people* go on to live longer than expected, they are not only most likely living in pain but will most likely need continuous healthcare in order to maintain a viable state.  

@chrisianna0508, may I please hear your side?  I'm not looking for an argument, I'm mainly curious.  Questions may follow.  

Weljadraak

I think I'm missing the "can of worms" that would be opened.  ::trying to think of issues::   "Playing God" is not a valid reason, to me and doesn't belong in any issue, really.  Just because death is something you can't come back from?  No.  If "playing God" is a valid reason, then logically anything that has to do with altering what may naturally happen is against your beliefs.  

deedee1017

Weljadraak said:

I think I'm missing the "can of worms" that would be opened.  ::trying to think of issues::   "Playing God" is not a valid reason, to me and doesn't belong in any issue, really.  Just because death is something you can't come back from?  No.  If "playing God" is a valid reason, then logically anything that has to do with altering what may naturally happen is against your beliefs.  

Just because playing God is not a valid reason for you, doesn't mean it shouldn't be for others and I mean that with the utmost respect.

Weljadraak

So then based on that logic, is it against your belief to use medication or seek any medical help at all? I mean because that's taking your life in your own hands or "playing God. "

deedee1017

Weljadraak said:

So then based on that logic, is it against your belief to use medication or seek any medical help at all? I mean because that's taking your life in your own hands or "playing God. "

I mean, i guess so is shaving, changing your hair color, cutting your nails... right?  

Weljadraak

deedee1017 said:

Weljadraak said:

So then based on that logic, is it against your belief to use medication or seek any medical help at all? I mean because that's taking your life in your own hands or "playing God. "

I mean, i guess so is shaving, changing your hair color, cutting your nails... right?  

That's pretty benign compared to one's health but sure.

Amjoy25

sweettooth87 said:

trackgirlparis said:

I support it 100%. A few friends are very against it; they are devout Catholics. One has written at length about her opposition to it.

You can still be Catholic and for it... Like my mom and I

Totally agree . I hope I didn't imply that I think that you can't; however, supporting it does not align with the Church's stance. The friends I'm referring to do not stray from any of the church's stances. 

Read: You're a bad Catholic @trackgirlparis. Hee hee.

trackgirlparis

Amjoy25 said:

sweettooth87 said:

trackgirlparis said:

sweettooth87 said:

I support it 100%.

A few friends are very against it; they are devout Catholics. One has written at length about her opposition to it.

You can still be Catholic and for it...
Like my mom and I

Totally agree . I hope I didn't imply that I think that you can't; however, supporting it does not align with the Church's stance. The friends I'm referring to do not stray from any of the church's stances. 

Read: You're a bad Catholic @trackgirlparis. Hee hee.

Haha, why thank you :-bd

Chrisanna0508

@Weljadraak‌ Sorry, just checked back on here. For starters, yes the playing God aspect has a meaning for me. She kept saying it's not suicide, but if you are ending your own life, that's called suicide. This is neither here nor there, but that part of it bothered me.
The can of worms I see being opened are several things. First, making sure someone is competent to be making these decisions for themselves. I guarantee that there are many clinically depressed people who would try this because there is no way this would remain contained to terminally ill patients. Also, I think that this would quickly expand and would end up not being voluntary anymore, but rather exterminating those who are seen as being a drain of resources. I understand that this may seem like a stretch, but I have no doubt it would go here. Let me know if this doesn't make sense.

Weljadraak

Chrisanna0508 said: @Weljadraak‌ Sorry, just checked back on here. For starters, yes the playing God aspect has a meaning for me. She kept saying it's not suicide, but if you are ending your own life, that's called suicide. This is neither here nor there, but that part of it bothered me.
The can of worms I see being opened are several things. First, making sure someone is competent to be making these decisions for themselves. I guarantee that there are many clinically depressed people who would try this because there is no way this would remain contained to terminally ill patients. Also, I think that this would quickly expand and would end up not being voluntary anymore, but rather exterminating those who are seen as being a drain of resources. I understand that this may seem like a stretch, but I have no doubt it would go here. Let me know if this doesn't make sense.

Thanks for answering!  I think we'll most definitely agree to disagree on this one.  Well, see above for playing God.  As far as the wording of what DWD does, the way I see it is my terminal disease ended my life, I am choosing how I want to die (with DWD, guaranteed peacefully, btw).  I think you sound mostly sketched out on the whole thing, which is cool - it's a very permanent and emotional decision, but I guarantee there are checks and balances in place.  Will some people try to use the system? Um, maybe, some do it now but there are 1,000 ways to die so if I was really set on it, I'll find a way and TBH, probably wouldn't go through my doctor.  Plus, a doctor has a license to uphold and guaranteed s/he isn't going to risk malpractice, but that's neither here nor there because DWD is a process, there is paperwork involved, there are consultations involved.  It is not as easy as "hey, doc, lemme get a bottle of Seconal!"  Your last point about extermination, sounds kind of paranoid and a bit limited.  There are plenty of substances out there, some legal, no Rx required, that could kill a person so unless this extermination is already taking place, nothing would change.  You did say it was a stretch, though. 

sweettooth87

Amjoy25 said:

sweettooth87 said:

trackgirlparis said:

I support it 100%. A few friends are very against it; they are devout Catholics. One has written at length about her opposition to it.

You can still be Catholic and for it... Like my mom and I

Totally agree . I hope I didn't imply that I think that you can't; however, supporting it does not align with the Church's stance. The friends I'm referring to do not stray from any of the church's stances. 

Read: You're a bad Catholic @trackgirlparis. Hee hee.

Or just a Catholic that doesn't agree w/ 100% of what the church says.. which I would think most people would fall under that follow any religion. 

Lee81

sweettooth87 said:

Amjoy25 said:

sweettooth87 said:

trackgirlparis said:

I support it 100%. A few friends are very against it; they are devout Catholics. One has written at length about her opposition to it.

You can still be Catholic and for it... Like my mom and I

Totally agree . I hope I didn't imply that I think that you can't; however, supporting it does not align with the Church's stance. The friends I'm referring to do not stray from any of the church's stances. 

Read: You're a bad Catholic @trackgirlparis. Hee hee.

Or just a Catholic that doesn't agree w/ 100% of what the church says.. which I would think most people would fall under that follow any religion. 

Cafeteria Catholic. I want some of this and some of this, but not that, or that, or that. You raise an interesting point @sweettooth87. I wonder how many other religions have this issue with their followers. 

Lee81

As much as I am in favor of DWD, I do think there is some potential for "can of worms" issues. I think there is concern that some people could be pressured to take the drugs by family/caregivers/etc. Or they might not want to take the drugs but they do anyway because they feel like they are a burden to their family and friends. 

Chrisanna0508

Thank you @breadandbutter07‌. This is what I wastrying to say without much success. I heard it argued, and I agree, that you canot say those who chose to die are brave and those who choose to fight are also brave. It is kind of one or the other. I do not want to live in a world where there is a committee somewhere in Washington deciding who has the right to live and who must die. Roll your eyes if you must, but this is the first step down that path. I understand people commit suicide and it saddens me greatly, but I refuse to support helping them along the way, no matter what the reason.