The SleepEasy Thread

lest12

@wareagle1220‌ I'm not weaning the paci. But I would say he's learning to fall asleep without it on his own. There was a point in time when the paci would put him to sleep. That phase is long gone, but I put him down with it out of habit, though he always spits it out before he goes to sleep. I also have to use it sometimes to keep him from nursing himself to sleep (if he starts drifting off I take him off the boob and give him the pacifier. Otherwise he screams).

wareagle1220

lest12 said:

@wareagle1220‌ I'm not weaning the paci. But I would say he's learning to fall asleep without it on his own. There was a point in time when the paci would put him to sleep. That phase is long gone, but I put him down with it out of habit, though he always spits it out before he goes to sleep. I also have to use it sometimes to keep him from nursing himself to sleep (if he starts drifting off I take him off the boob and give him the pacifier. Otherwise he screams).

@lest12‌, we are in the same camp. She spits it out before falling asleep but I do the boob to paci replacement as well. She doesn't take the paci at all during the day anymore. Only for naps and bed.

AandJ28

So last night was night #1... she fell asleep within 5 minutes of being put down (without pacifier). Then woke at 10:45pm. I waited until she started crying before going in to check. I tried to let her self-soothe and she seemed to be ok. Only stayed in the room for 30 seconds, left and waited 3 minutes. She was crying the entire 3 minutes, went back in, soothed, and left. Again she started crying. Checked in after 5 minutes and I broke down. I couldn't handle her crying so I gave her the pacifier. Ugh! She woke again at 12:45am but only stirred. I didn't do any checks and she was asleep again within 10 minutes. She woke again at 3:19am, stirred, no check, and she went back to sleep. Crying at 4:05am, waited 3 minutes, checked, left. Then crying again, checked and gave her pacifier. She fell asleep and woke for the day at 5:15am. A total of 11 hours in her crib, 12 hours since her last feed.

I know the pacifier is a "crutch" and I should wean her off of it but it broke my heart last night because she is lying there, on her stomach with her head turned to the side, eyes closed, and mouth open looking for the pacifier. Hoping tonight and every night going forward gets better, but last night was better than being up every 30 minutes. I also realized that I am too quick to get up and run in to her. Knowing that, I would lay there and watch the monitor when she woke until she cried. It was good to see that while other nights, I would have run in to check on her, I could have left her and she would have gone back to sleep. We'll see how tonight goes. She just went down for her 1st nap. I know it hasn't been exactly 2 hours but she was ready. She went down with no pacifier.

nicolemcm

Night 6 was a hit!
As I said earlier, down at 7:30 and cried less than a minute
Dreamfeed - for 4 minutes and fussed and cried intermittently <5m
up at 6:30 bright and bushy tailed
zero wakeups requiring checkins - fussed and tossed, but we only knew bc of the monitor, not a peep out of him

And Mama bear actually got a decent amount of sleep, too
First night without dreamfeed tonight and we're on to Day 3 of naps

This thread has been awesome, and thanks nunz for all the encouragement and advice )

katekat8721

Night 4... both babies slept from 6:19 - 3:45! V got up then and fussed for less than 3 mins and has been back to sleep ever since. (It's 5 now, just wanna make it to 5:30).

Eventually we want to wean Scar's swaddle and push bedtime a little later if we can, but right now our priority has been the MOTN wakeups. Next is naps, they're getting 3 naps but only making it 45 mins.

I have to say... the change that this has brought to our family is incredible. The babies are so much happier and more pleasant, I can actually schedule time out of the house without worrying when they're next meltdown will be and they're both napping at the same time so DH and I get a break during the day. This is awesome!

wareagle1220

Honestly, what @katekat8721‌ said is why I'm contemplating the sleep training. She needs to sleep. She's so cranky from lack of sleep. She's fussy and overtired.

nunzchucks

@AandJ28‌ Do you have a timer so you are not checking in too early? You really need to resist giving the paci if she can't replace it herself - self soothing is a huge part of this. Also, I would try to space out your first check from the time crying starts - not from the time when she wakes up. She may need to fuss a little to settle down



That said, it sounds like things are already improving which is great!

nunzchucks

Thrilled for you, @nicolemcm and @katekat8721

katekat8721

wareagle1220 said:

Honestly, what @katekat8721‌ said is why I'm contemplating the sleep training. She needs to sleep. She's so cranky from lack of sleep. She's fussy and overtired.

I promise you, it's a big change. I have been chained to my house for months because I never knew when V would lose her shit. Now with the nap formula thisng it's awesome. I know I have a solid couple hours in between naps to do my own thing and can plan around that. This weekend we organized the garage, just because we had time haha.

With the twins I could always see the difference between S, my good sleeper, and V, my shitty sleeper. Plus I knew I was sleep deprived, and physically felt like shit from it. I figured she was problably achey and had headaches and stuff too. That's what ultimately made me bite the bullet.

AandJ28

@nunzchucks - I know I need to cut out the pacifier but feel like I need to wean? Or should I just go cold turkey with it? She was fine going down without it but then needed it to go back to sleep. As for a timer, I have my cell next to me which I have ready with the "stopwatch." I know I need to be more strict with myself... she let out a scream and a cry at 7:40pm to which I jumped up, got half way up the stairs and she had already gone back to sleep. I am realizing more and more that I may be standing in her way. I have a video monitor next to me at night and think that I need to start looking at that, then looking at the time and starting the stopwatch prior to making any sudden moves to get out of bed. ??

Edit to say that yes, the pacifier needs to and apparently can be cut out. I put her down for her nap at 10:00 on the dot, no pacifier. 5 minutes later, I didn't hear anything. Just now I went to check on her and she is asleep. Hands clasped together, on her side, her little mouth moving as if she had a pacifier. Maybe it is / was more me that needed this.

nunzchucks

@emotionlotion‌ You can always do a dream feed before you go to bed if you are unsure. They recommend this until 5 mo. My chunker was 18.5 lbs at 4 mo so we ended up stopping the dream feed at 4.5 mo because I felt like I was disturbing his sleep pattern. Some of it is parent discretion. If he's going thru w/o weaning your feed - AWESOME! Hope naps aren't too bad today!

nunzchucks

All the successes are making me so happy for everyone! It's so wonderful. We felt like we got our lives back.

nicolemcm

I absolutely agree @nunzchucks re getting your life back. We did have a rough go in the beginning with consistency, but now that we're into it, we're just so much happier, all of us. DH and I watched a movie last night all curled up the two of us and kind of looked around thinking that the silence was bizarre.

I used to wait until DH was home/a friend came over in order to do major housework, bake, read, or shower. But this morning during his morning nap, I had a shower and made a coffee cake. Then as soon as he got up, we went grocery shopping - no meltdowns! I honestly do feel like I have my life back. And poor DH can have his wife back, cause this one was a crazy stressed one for weeks on end before we did this. Never looking back.

AandJ28

LO has always been great at naps but would only have 2/day and be super fussy between 4pm and bedtime. Reading the book and realizing that she needed 3 naps was an eye-opener. We are on day 1, entering night 2, and I just put her down for nap #3. This is the 2nd nap without the pacifier. She fussed / cried, went 5 minutes and did a check-in, then she cried for another 2 minutes and was out like a light. After thinking about it all day, I'm really starting to think that it's me that needed to be trained. Trained to let her grow and realize that she needs some independence. While I hate to see/hear her cry, I'm thinking that tonight will go better. I also went back and read the S in E.A.S.Y. (Baby Whisperer) and she also made me realize that I wasn't giving her a chance to soothe herself or figure it out because I was "rescuing" her.

nunzchucks

If you'll all excuse me, I'm having my own personal CIO moment at all these success stories!

AbbySeiden

I am desperate to fix LO's napping! However he's in daycare five days a week. I don't want to spend every weekend nap training, but the next time I'll have so many consistent days at home isn't until Christmas!

I didn't really do the sleep easy system for nighttime sleep, because he has naturally been able to put himself to sleep and self soothe in the middle the night. But when I put him down for nap, he just lays there and cries. Doesn't try to get himself comfortable or to do anything to soothe himself.

Help! What should I do? I get about 3 to 4 20 minute naps a day, usually after he's been awake for 2 1/2 hours is simply too tired to fight.

nunzchucks

@AbbySeiden‌ Unfortunately SleepEasy's suggestion is to take time off work to work on naps (page 221)

cinnamonsmiles

Just wanted to pop in to say that I actually had to wake LO up after nap #2 because he had been sleeping 2 hours!! I followed the suggestion that maybe he was just bored and kept switching activities to see. He still put up just as much of a fuss every time (nap#1 was the usual 45 and #3 doesnt look like it's going to happen) but that was such a change! Hopefully this trend continues

nunzchucks

CAMag said:

Paging @nunzchucks‌! One of my guys just vomited. He seems to be ok; no fever or anything. I think it may have been because I was overzealous with his oatmeal. Anyway, thoughts on how to proceed with sleep training tonight?

Honestly, I think you should be ok as long as you don't think he's really sick. There's a section on what do do if they throw up while training.

cinnamonsmiles

So call me dumb but I just realized this.... Before we started Sleepeasy, we would let LO stay up until 9, feed one last time (6x total per day), and he would sleep from 10-8. Ever since we started sleep training, LO will wake up exactly 8.5hrs after I put him to bed. Doesn't matter whether I put him to bed at 630, 7, or 8, the wakeup will correspond with the timing. I had thought it was the morning traffic that was waking him, but do you think it could be because he's missing that last full meal? He usually will cry without going back to sleep until I get him up for the day at 10 hours. Should I start a dreamfeed (how do you even start one at this point?) ETA: please dont think that I was intentionally forcing LO to miss a meal. As I mentioned before, we try to "tank him up" before actually going to bed. Last night DH gave him a bottle instead of me bfing and he didn't even take 2oz for that feed, which made me realize this.

nunzchucks

@emotionlotion‌ Funny you should ask this! We have a similar issue with DS. He sometimes wakes up at 3AM and just chats to himself for 10-30 min. We do not check in unless he starts to cry. For him, our check ins usually make things worse. My rec is no checks unless there is crying. I mean, sometimes I lie awake for a little before falling asleep, why shouldn't a baby?

nunzchucks

@cinnamonsmiles‌ What time is bed time? The book does recommend a dream feed up to 5 mo.

cinnamonsmiles

nunzchucks said:

@cinnamonsmiles‌ What time is bed time? The book does recommend a dream feed up to 5 mo.

We start getting him ready for bed at 720 and put him down at 8pm. The time change messed us up a bit and I had to put him down at 630 Sunday but stretched him back out to 8 today. And I did see that but didnt think we needed one since he wasn't waking up for MOTN feedings before. I'm open to the suggestion, just have no idea how to instate it.

nunzchucks

@cinnamonsmiles When I dream fed DS (EBF) I would do it before I went to bed which was roughly three hours from his bed time (6:30/9:30). I would just get him out of the crib and have him latch. From there he would feed 5 min or so and I'd put him back down. I don't have any experience with a bottle feed dream feed so anyone else should feel free to chime in.

cinnamonsmiles

nunzchucks said:

@cinnamonsmiles When I dream fed DS (EBF) I would do it before I went to bed which was roughly three hours from his bed time (6:30/9:30). I would just get him out of the crib and have him latch. From there he would feed 5 min or so and I'd put him back down. I don't have any experience with a bottle feed dream feed so anyone else should feel free to chime in.

Thank you! The book mentioned it but not how to do it, so that helps a lot. And I already pump every night before I go to sleep, so the supply is there. Trying it tonight, will post an update tomorrow. Fingers crossed it goes smoothly! ETA: So you put him back down asleep?

katekat8721

CharSamm said:

nunzchucks said:

If you'll all excuse me, I'm having my own personal CIO moment at all these success stories!

Seriously, you have been such a huge help with all of this and your replies have been so quick. Thanks nunz 

All of this times a million. Seriously nunz, like you said this is life changing. I feel like I'm living instead of just surviving. My IRL twin mom bestie also implemented this the same night I did and her babies are doing awesome too.

Tonight is night #5 and the changes we've seen so far are just incredible. Does it suck having your kid cry? Yes. But I've been keeping track of how much time they truly spend crying a day... They actually spent more time crying BEFORE we started this than they cry DURING sleep training. Probably because before they were tired, cranky, overtired and felt crappy. Now they're just crying because they're pissed.

I can handle the pissed off crying! I don't like the "mommy I'm so tired I'm exhausted and hate life" crying!

katekat8721

I totally feel like a Sleep Easy success story hahaha.

TunieBee

I'm not sure what to do about pumping now that LO is sleeping thought the night. I can make it until about 5am before I feel like I'm going to explode. When I do pump, I get between 10-12 oz but the milk is so watery! I'm afraid it's causing the baby to be gassy when he gets bottles of it later on in daycare. Any thoughts?

katekat8721

@MaddieRosie I usually get up in the MOTN to pump. I can make it about 6 hours overnight before I wake up soaking (and then morning pumping takes forrrrever). Once the babies sleep really well overnight then I don't know what I'll do!

RoccoStar

Just wanted to share that night 3 (last night) was ah-mazing. He put himself to sleep with no fussing at 7:25, I did a dream feed at 9:30, nursed for 4 mins at 12:30 and was supposed to pull back and only nurse him for 3 mins at 3:30 but I was curious to see how long he would go for if I let him and he went for 5 (just because I was worried he was waking due to hunger during these early morning wakings, but nunz you were right and I feel better about it not being hunger now). He didn't make a peep all night and woke up at 5:55 happy and playing. I decided that since he made it 10.5 hours to go in and get him to start the day. Today we gave up nap training. We're not rocking to sleep and all naps still have to be in the crib (not being held) but we're not letting him cry past 5/10 mins either. We're also following his tired cues instead of sticking to the SleepEasy schedule, although that is a goal I'm just going to give him more time to get there. As long as this doesn't affect our night training we're going to stick with this for now. Tonight I'm so nervous about continuing the night weaning. I think I'm going to drop back to just one feeding at 2 for 5 mins and then take another day or so to wean that. Do you think that's okay? I think I'm probably having a harder time giving up the night feedings than he is. At first it was hard to set the alarm to do it but last night I felt like the Milk Fairy in a sweet way.

lest12

I have to do something about my boobs, too. They have been waking me up in pain @ 5:30 am.

nunzchucks

@roccostar I think your weaning plan is fine. Any particular reason you don't want to do nap training?

nunzchucks

Engorgement: @lest12 @katekat8721 @maddierosie Be careful that extra pumping sessions aren't causing the opposite problem and making you produce more milk. My supply did regulate. I still feel full in the morning, but not painful. If you have to pump, pump to comfort or hand express to comfort. I had bad oversupply issues for 10w so I've been there.

nunzchucks

@MommyWaldron‌ I guess my question is - is it working for you? You say you need to sleep until 10, but you are having to get up at 2 and 7. I think you'll need to read the book and decide.

nunzchucks

@cinnamonsmiles Yes. Back down asleep. I don't feel as though he really ever wakes.

nicolemcm

Ok, so last night was mostly success - down at 715 and asleep within 15 minutes, fussing at 3 with no checkins needed, wake up full on crying at 510. It was our first night without a dream feed, so I wonder if it was out of habit and it just needs to work itself out or he was just ready to be up and about.

nunzchucks

Wow @nicolemcm! What a difference! I find that we are still struggling with the time change. DS is chatty at 4:30 every day since Sunday.

nicolemcm

Ok good nunz, good to know I'm not alone.

So pleased with the huge improvement, and that I have my bed back! I went to bed myself at 10 last night. I can't remember the last time I went to bed that early and actually slept.

Issues now are: 30m naps and morning engorgement/leakage, which I hope will work themselves out in time.

katekat8721

@CAMag‌ you're doing great, truly! When we go get the girls from nap/morning we make a big to do about it open their blinds, give big smiles and say cheerfully "good morning, you did great!" (Even if they didn't do great haha). It puts them in a good mood!

For some reason our 2nd night was worse than our first. Then it got better. Last night V fussed more than the night before. I am thinking it'll just take longer since there are two to deal with!

nunzchucks

Ugh @CAMag‌. Poop derails everything!