Help with friend issue

fintin

There is a big difference in being inquisitive and constantly questioning authority. A child needs to learn some time the answer is no. No if, ands or buts about it. Period.

ordinary1

I'm so confused by some of these points. Eating fruit snacks and not questioning me when I say no means no leads to creating a drone. It's important to teach to respect no from women and each other, but not to teach not to judge others on different snacks/rules? Not every family has the same rules.

kcisthebombdotcom

amy052006 said:

kcisthebombdotcom said:

amy052006 said:

kcisthebombdotcom said:

amy052006 said:

kcisthebombdotcom said:

Andrewsgal said:

Um every teacher tells parents how great their preschoolers are at open house. It's like the teacher rule.

I was pretty much the first parent she sought to rave about my kid. She was positive of course but she didn't repeat the same line to every person in the room. I have always gotten honest reports of what my kids strengths/weaknesses are in reports. Behavior has absolutely never been an issue and is always what his teachers rave about for the past nearly two years of preschool.

So you just hung out an listened to what she said to other parents about other kids?

My kids class only has eight kids--it isn't huge. Yes, it was pretty easy to hear what she was saying in close proximity.

This shit is why you have to be friends with the nanny.  My god.  The last thing I want to now have to worry about is some asshole mom with nothing better to do than eavesdrop on discussions I have with my child's teacher.

We went to back to school night.  We made a point to introduce ourselves first during the small talk portion so we could get out of there and enjoy each other's company while we had a sitter.  

My question is how do you block someone out who is speaking two feet away from you? I was looking at my kids schoolwork and could hear the conversation because I was literally right there. I wasn't with dh talking to him.

We spoke with the teacher and left.  It's not difficult.

I mean really, you either listened or you didn't.  I overhear shit all day long -- I don't remember it. You listened well enough to stop and compare.  That is so serious crazy.

I didn't walk in with a list of questions, pull her aside, ask them and walk out. It was an open dialogue with people asking about the classroom and such--people were not just solely asking about their particular kid. Just because I can recall it wasn't the teacher telling every parent the same line about their kid absolutely doesn't mean I was spying to compare.

kcisthebombdotcom

amy052006 said:

You know who is really good about expecting you to take no for an answer? Cops.

There's a pretty clear set of rules there though. Just like there's a pretty clear set of rules of how to treat women.

Andrewsgal

kcisthebombdotcom said:

amy052006 said:

You know who is really good about expecting you to take no for an answer? Cops.

There's a pretty clear set of rules there though. Just like there's a pretty clear set of rules of how to treat women.

So as long as there is rules it's okay to say no?

kcisthebombdotcom

Andrewsgal said:

amy052006 said:

kcisthebombdotcom said:

You can give your children a voice, teach them to question, and explain why the rules are the way they are vs "no because I said so" and also teach your child to respect women. The two lessons are not mutually exclusive.

But you can't teach him to respect the food choices of other kids?

Yeah, my expectation of a four year old and a teenager are two very different things. I don't expect a four year old to have a well developed filter yet. Obviously my expectation for my teen/adult will be vastly different. What a foolish comparison.

Yes of course because what we are teaching them now is not totally shaping who they are. How foolish of us.

Obviously you teach but what you expect are two different things. I teach my kid what's socially appropriate and what's not but it's not surprising if he says something inappropriate without realizing or cries because he doesn't get his way. At 13 I will have very different expectations and he will have experience/maturity under his belt.

Andrewsgal

kcisthebombdotcom said:

Andrewsgal said:

amy052006 said:

kcisthebombdotcom said:

You can give your children a voice, teach them to question, and explain why the rules are the way they are vs "no because I said so" and also teach your child to respect women. The two lessons are not mutually exclusive.

But you can't teach him to respect the food choices of other kids?

Yeah, my expectation of a four year old and a teenager are two very different things. I don't expect a four year old to have a well developed filter yet. Obviously my expectation for my teen/adult will be vastly different. What a foolish comparison.

Yes of course because what we are teaching them now is not totally shaping who they are. How foolish of us.

Obviously you teach but what you expect are two different things. I teach my kid what's socially appropriate and what's not but it's not surprising if he says something inappropriate without realizing or cries because he doesn't get his way. At 13 I will have very different expectations and he will have experience/maturity under his belt.

Oh so the magic age you have high expectations is 13? That's cool I choose to set high expectations from day one. Strange it seems to be working for me. But waiting until a kid is 13 maybe kind of sort of could work.

penguingrrl

cjcouple said:

my kids are screwed. they eat fruit snacks, gummies, lunchable and ask why when I say no. honestly, I never thought it was an issue. I always hated that "because I said so" that my aunt pulled with my cousins. but I wouldnt call them mindless drones. lol really, aside from the obvious "no" with sex, as an adult I cannot remember one time I was ever told no without explanation.

I wasn't saying that I never give an explanation as to why I decided what I did. Most of the time I do give them a reason. They just also have been taught that sometimes no without a reason has to suffice and that's what KCs son seems to lack in understanding. 

kcisthebombdotcom

Andrewsgal said:

kcisthebombdotcom said:

amy052006 said:

You know who is really good about expecting you to take no for an answer? Cops.

There's a pretty clear set of rules there though. Just like there's a pretty clear set of rules of how to treat women.

So as long as there is rules it's okay to say no?

That's not it. I want my kids to ask why if they don't understand something instead of blindly following. I want them to know why rules exist, their purpose and why they should obey instead of just following what someone who is bigger says. When my kid is telling someone else to do the right thing I don't think he's intending to be an asshole. His heart is in the right place. He is still learning social rules because he is a preschooler and he's acting age appropriately. I agree with cj-there's always a good reason why a rule exist. Other people think its poor parenting if a child questions. That's fine. I just happen to disagree and consider it a positive behavior I'd never want to extinguish, not a negative.

magentawarped

Except that he's not telling kids to do the right thing...he's spouting off sanctimonious judgy crap because someone has put it in his head that the way your family does things is the "right way" and other ways are wrong. Who possibly could have instilled this in him?

fintin

Example:
Kid: Mom can I have this cool dinosaur toy. Timmy has it, please?
Mom: No you don't need that.
Kid: please mom! Why can I have it?
Mkm: because I said no.

Andrewsgal

cjcouple said:

cjcouple said:

my kids are screwed. they eat fruit snacks, gummies, lunchable and ask why when I say no. honestly, I never thought it was an issue. I always hated that "because I said so" that my aunt pulled with my cousins. but I wouldnt call them mindless drones. lol really, aside from the obvious "no" with sex, as an adult I cannot remember one time I was ever told no without explanation.

I wasn't saying that I never give an explanation as to why I decided what I did. Most of the time I do give them a reason. They just also have been taught that sometimes no without a reason has to suffice and that's what KCs son seems to lack in understanding. 

idk, I don't get why they need to know that? of course there are rules and directions that need to be followed without question, back talk etc but being told no without reason? not sure I agree. if my kid is told no he can't go bathroom or recess I think he has a right to ask and be told why. I think I need examples before I agree or disagree. maybe there are situations I am missing here. anyone?

CJ you have lost your fucking mind. Your social snowflake doesn't deserve an answer because you never taught him to accept no. Do the adults and teachers a favor and teach that skill ASAP. Sometimes there just isn't time to explain to 22 kids why teachers say no. I prefer my kids teachers spend that time actually teaching, this is ridiculous. Seriously I expect an 8 year old to be able to except no for an answer. As a parent you should too.

fintin

No one said it was bad parenting if you kid is inquisitive. We said sometimes no means no and thats a lesson kids need to learn.

kcisthebombdotcom

magentawarped said:

Except that he's not telling kids to do the right thing...he's spouting off sanctimonious judgy crap because someone has put it in his head that the way your family does things is the "right way" and other ways are wrong. Who possibly could have instilled this in him?

Um no. Kids are pretty black and white. He knows healthy food makes us big and small and treats are fun but not something we can eat everyday like apples. In his mind healthy food=good and unhealthy food=bad. I absolutely have never used another family as an example of what's wrong,

magentawarped

kcisthebombdotcom said:

magentawarped said:

Except that he's not telling kids to do the right thing...he's spouting off sanctimonious judgy crap because someone has put it in his head that the way your family does things is the "right way" and other ways are wrong. Who possibly could have instilled this in him?

Um no. Kids are pretty black and white. He knows healthy food makes us big and small and treats are fun but not something we can eat everyday like apples. In his mind healthy food=good and unhealthy food=bad. I absolutely have never used another family as an example of what's wrong,

Sure dude. I absolutely believe that you've never been judgy in front of your kid.

fintin

Fine
Kid: can I have the toy
Me: no
Kid:why
Me: because I said no

kcisthebombdotcom

Andrewsgal said:

cjcouple said:

cjcouple said:

my kids are screwed. they eat fruit snacks, gummies, lunchable and ask why when I say no. honestly, I never thought it was an issue. I always hated that "because I said so" that my aunt pulled with my cousins. but I wouldnt call them mindless drones. lol really, aside from the obvious "no" with sex, as an adult I cannot remember one time I was ever told no without explanation.

I wasn't saying that I never give an explanation as to why I decided what I did. Most of the time I do give them a reason. They just also have been taught that sometimes no without a reason has to suffice and that's what KCs son seems to lack in understanding. 

idk, I don't get why they need to know that? of course there are rules and directions that need to be followed without question, back talk etc but being told no without reason? not sure I agree. if my kid is told no he can't go bathroom or recess I think he has a right to ask and be told why. I think I need examples before I agree or disagree. maybe there are situations I am missing here. anyone?

CJ you have lost your fucking mind. Your social snowflake doesn't deserve an answer because you never taught him to accept no. Do the adults and teachers a favor and teach that skill ASAP. Sometimes there just isn't time to explain to 22 kids why teachers say no. I prefer my kids teachers spend that time actually teaching, this is ridiculous. Seriously I expect an 8 year old to be able to except no for an answer. As a parent you should too.

Isn't that why kids go to preschool? They learn classroom rules. Obviously certain situations will come up that are novel but it's not like a kid will need to be asking why all day.

kcisthebombdotcom

fintin said:

Fine Kid: can I have the toy Me: no Kid:why Me: because I said no

It's easier to make your children understand that toys cost money and therefore are not something they can have every single time they go somewhere. I could say no every time or I explained to my kid why it wasn't practical to have a toy on every outing. I think option two works a whole lot better...

penguingrrl

cjcouple said:

cjcouple said:

my kids are screwed. they eat fruit snacks, gummies, lunchable and ask why when I say no. honestly, I never thought it was an issue. I always hated that "because I said so" that my aunt pulled with my cousins. but I wouldnt call them mindless drones. lol really, aside from the obvious "no" with sex, as an adult I cannot remember one time I was ever told no without explanation.

I wasn't saying that I never give an explanation as to why I decided what I did. Most of the time I do give them a reason. They just also have been taught that sometimes no without a reason has to suffice and that's what KCs son seems to lack in understanding. 

idk, I don't get why they need to know that? of course there are rules and directions that need to be followed without question, back talk etc but being told no without reason? not sure I agree. if my kid is told no he can't go bathroom or recess I think he has a right to ask and be told why. I think I need examples before I agree or disagree. maybe there are situations I am missing here. anyone?

If my kid needed the bathroom and was told no I would want them to question that of course. I definitely think there is a time and place and kids need to advocate for themselves in many situations (like the time someone we carpooled with told Julia it was fine to ride without a booster).

But sometimes I am not comfortable giving my kids the impression that other parents don't take safety or healthy eating or (insert parenting hot topic) as seriously as I do even if they make different decisions than I do (car safety and food being big places where I seem to differ from many families). And so "no, we don't buy that/use that/do that" needs to suffice. 

A huge topic we're currently dealing with is that Julia is one of the few in her class still in a booster seat (even though she just turned 7 there is more than one 9 year old in her 2nd grade class) and I don't want to smugly tell her that the other parents are mistaken in taking their kids out of a booster when they are legally allowed to ride without one, so "different families do things differently" must suffice. In this case it is a situation where I know she would go to school and tell kids why their parents are wrong about taking them out of a booster prematurely, so instead all she will tell them is that her mom does things differently.

Andrewsgal

cjcouple said:

Andrewsgal said:

cjcouple said:

penguingrrl said:

cjcouple said:

my kids are screwed.

they eat fruit snacks, gummies, lunchable and ask why when I say no.

honestly, I never thought it was an issue. I always hated that "because I said so" that my aunt pulled with my cousins. but I wouldnt call them mindless drones. lol


really, aside from the obvious "no" with sex, as an adult I cannot remember one time I was ever told no without explanation.

I wasn't saying that I never give an explanation as to why I decided what I did. Most of the time I do give them a reason. They just also have been taught that sometimes no without a reason has to suffice and that's what KCs son seems to lack in understanding. 

idk, I don't get why they need to know that? of course there are rules and directions that need to be followed without question, back talk etc but being told no without reason? not sure I agree.

if my kid is told no he can't go bathroom or recess I think he has a right to ask and be told why.

I think I need examples before I agree or disagree.

maybe there are situations I am missing here. anyone?

CJ you have lost your fucking mind. Your social snowflake doesn't deserve an answer because you never taught him to accept no. Do the adults and teachers a favor and teach that skill ASAP. Sometimes there just isn't time to explain to 22 kids why teachers say no. I prefer my kids teachers spend that time actually teaching, this is ridiculous. Seriously I expect an 8 year old to be able to except no for an answer. As a parent you should too.

whoa, you need to relax.

This is seriously one of my biggest pet peeves as a teacher and parent. The fact that you think a teacher should always offer a reason because you can't teach your child to accept no is asinine and cuts into my kids instructional time.

kcisthebombdotcom

penguingrrl said:

cjcouple said:

cjcouple said:

my kids are screwed. they eat fruit snacks, gummies, lunchable and ask why when I say no. honestly, I never thought it was an issue. I always hated that "because I said so" that my aunt pulled with my cousins. but I wouldnt call them mindless drones. lol really, aside from the obvious "no" with sex, as an adult I cannot remember one time I was ever told no without explanation.

I wasn't saying that I never give an explanation as to why I decided what I did. Most of the time I do give them a reason. They just also have been taught that sometimes no without a reason has to suffice and that's what KCs son seems to lack in understanding. 

idk, I don't get why they need to know that? of course there are rules and directions that need to be followed without question, back talk etc but being told no without reason? not sure I agree. if my kid is told no he can't go bathroom or recess I think he has a right to ask and be told why. I think I need examples before I agree or disagree. maybe there are situations I am missing here. anyone?

If my kid needed the bathroom and was told no I would want them to question that of course. I definitely think there is a time and place and kids need to advocate for themselves in many situations (like the time someone we carpooled with told Julia it was fine to ride without a booster).

But sometimes I am not comfortable giving my kids the impression that other parents don't take safety or healthy eating or (insert parenting hot topic) as seriously as I do even if they make different decisions than I do (car safety and food being big places where I seem to differ from many families). And so "no, we don't buy that/use that/do that" needs to suffice. 

A huge topic we're currently dealing with is that Julia is one of the few in her class still in a booster seat (even though she just turned 7 there is more than one 9 year old in her 2nd grade class) and I don't want to smugly tell her that the other parents are mistaken in taking their kids out of a booster when they are legally allowed to ride without one, so "different families do things differently" must suffice. In this case it is a situation where I know she would go to school and tell kids why their parents are wrong about taking them out of a booster prematurely, so instead all she will tell them is that her mom does things differently.

But you gave her a reason. Different families do things differently =\= no because I said so.

fintin

It's more practical having your child question every decision that you make? Well then I have been doing everything wrong. /:)

Andrewsgal

cjcouple said:

I think some people might need to step away from the computer!!!

cough.....AG..... cough.

I do find it rather humorous that you are telling me to teach my mute child to just keep quiet and accept no (which he can) when told. I promise you if my kid asked his teacher why she said no, the entire class including his teacher would be celebrating. lol

aim that target elsewhere lady.

When you know you are wrong play the SN card that's cool.

kcisthebombdotcom

Penguin, this is the exact thing I was posting about. I don't want to give my kid the impression other people are doing it wrong so I wanted a different answer. Why are you disagreeing with me?

kcisthebombdotcom

fintin said:

It's more practical having your child question every decision that you make? Well then I have been doing everything wrong. /:)

I could say "no because I said so" and deal with the same question every time we are at the store or I could explain why the rule exists to stop the questioning. Doesn't the latter make life easier or am I missing something?

fintin

@kcisthebombdotcom‌ When I say no my child says "yes ma'am" because that's how we raised him. What we say goes. If I give him a reason great! If not the answers still no. He respects that. So no! I set my standards high for my child and he rises to the occasion.

Andrewsgal

cjcouple said:

Andrewsgal said:

cjcouple said:

I think some people might need to step away from the computer!!!

cough.....AG..... cough.

I do find it rather humorous that you are telling me to teach my mute child to just keep quiet and accept no (which he can) when told. I promise you if my kid asked his teacher why she said no, the entire class including his teacher would be celebrating. lol

aim that target elsewhere lady.

When you know you are wrong play the SN card that's cool.

it has nothing to do with his SM. YOU are physically telling ME (you said cj teach your 8yo) to teach my kid a skill about something he can't do. and you know he is mute. it's not a secret.

clearly my kid doesn't pester his teacher.

but isn't it the hope that one day he will? And what about the other one. BTW I still think playing the SN card here is kind of gross.

kcisthebombdotcom

fintin said:

@kcisthebombdotcom‌ When I say no my child says "yes ma'am" because that's how we raised him. What we say goes. If I give him a reason great! If not the answers still no. He respects that. So no! I set my standards high for my child and he rises to the occasion.

Again different strokes for different folks but I consider that teaching compliance to adults vs teaching right from wrong. I want my kids to behave because they understand the rules and respect them, not just going along with what adults say.

fintin

Well you're also a hypocritical helicopter mom who flips shit over fruit snacks so that doesn't surprise me.

Andrewsgal

kcisthebombdotcom said:

fintin said:

@kcisthebombdotcom‌ When I say no my child says "yes ma'am" because that's how we raised him. What we say goes. If I give him a reason great! If not the answers still no. He respects that. So no! I set my standards high for my child and he rises to the occasion.

Again different strokes for different folks but I consider that teaching compliance to adults vs teaching right from wrong. I want my kids to behave because they understand the rules and respect them, not just going along with what adults say.

What if they don't respect a rule? Seriously the speed limit in a road by my house is 30. It is ridiculous. I still have to follow it. There will always be rules in life we don't agree with and still have to follow. I have like 10 I can think of off the top of my head.

penguingrrl

kcisthebombdotcom said:

Penguin, this is the exact thing I was posting about. I don't want to give my kid the impression other people are doing it wrong so I wanted a different answer. Why are you disagreeing with me?

Because it sounded to me like you were saying he wouldn't accept "different families do things differently" and you didn't know how to give a more detailed explanation without risking him repeating something that might hurt someone's feelings. 

kcisthebombdotcom

Andrewsgal said:

fintin said:

@kcisthebombdotcom‌ When I say no my child says "yes ma'am" because that's how we raised him. What we say goes. If I give him a reason great! If not the answers still no. He respects that. So no! I set my standards high for my child and he rises to the occasion.

Again different strokes for different folks but I consider that teaching compliance to adults vs teaching right from wrong. I want my kids to behave because they understand the rules and respect them, not just going along with what adults say.

What if they don't respect a rule? Seriously the speed limit in a road by my house is 30. It is ridiculous. I still have to follow it. There will always be rules in life we don't agree with and still have to follow. I have like 10 I can think of off the top of my head.

That's my main point. If you're learning to obey an authority vs a rule you're more inclined to break it when you're an adult and you don't have that person over you because you never actually learned self regulation. Most of the time when my son asks why to a rule (taking the fruit snack out of the example because that's one he's never been told) I can ask him "why do you think" and he tells me why, totally bypassing the back and forth power struggle/tantrum. It's really interesting to me that you're all gung-ho over positive discipline and then venture so far away from it on this issue.

penguingrrl

I also do think, though, that it's really important for some kids to understand that they aren't owed an explanation any time someone says no to them. I remember reading an article when Julia was little about how the way you handle things like this when a child is a toddler hard wires their brain and when they hit their teen years they will unconciously expect the same response. So if you teach a child that they will always get a satisfying answer to why you said no at two, when they're a teen they will have a harder time understanding that there isn't always a reason (sex being a huge place where no reason needs to be given, ever). And teens do not have the long-term thinking necessary to comprehend the reasoned answer you're giving them (you need to do well in school so that a decade from now you will hopefully get a good job isn't a very compelling argument when faced with homework versus fun tonight).

Andrewsgal

kcisthebombdotcom said:

Andrewsgal said:

kcisthebombdotcom said:

fintin said:

@kcisthebombdotcom‌ When I say no my child says "yes ma'am" because that's how we raised him. What we say goes. If I give him a reason great! If not the answers still no. He respects that. So no! I set my standards high for my child and he rises to the occasion.

Again different strokes for different folks but I consider that teaching compliance to adults vs teaching right from wrong. I want my kids to behave because they understand the rules and respect them, not just going along with what adults say.

What if they don't respect a rule? Seriously the speed limit in a road by my house is 30. It is ridiculous. I still have to follow it. There will always be rules in life we don't agree with and still have to follow. I have like 10 I can think of off the top of my head.

That's my main point. If you're learning to obey an authority vs a rule you're more inclined to break it when you're an adult and you don't have that person over you because you never actually learned self regulation. Most of the time when my son asks why to a rule (taking the fruit snack out of the example because that's one he's never been told) I can ask him "why do you think" and he tells me why, totally bypassing the back and forth power struggle/tantrum. It's really interesting to me that you're all gung-ho over positive discipline and then venture so far away from it on this issue.
In my example the only thing keeping me from speeding is fear of authority (cops) and consequences. You Know like accepting no because I said so.

kcisthebombdotcom

penguingrrl said:

kcisthebombdotcom said:

Penguin, this is the exact thing I was posting about. I don't want to give my kid the impression other people are doing it wrong so I wanted a different answer. Why are you disagreeing with me?

Because it sounded to me like you were saying he wouldn't accept "different families do things differently" and you didn't know how to give a more detailed explanation without risking him repeating something that might hurt someone's feelings. 

The only strategy I disagreed with is just telling him no because I said so.

kcisthebombdotcom

penguingrrl said:

I also do think, though, that it's really important for some kids to understand that they aren't owed an explanation any time someone says no to them. I remember reading an article when Julia was little about how the way you handle things like this when a child is a toddler hard wires their brain and when they hit their teen years they will unconciously expect the same response. So if you teach a child that they will always get a satisfying answer to why you said no at two, when they're a teen they will have a harder time understanding that there isn't always a reason (sex being a huge place where no reason needs to be given, ever). And teens do not have the long-term thinking necessary to comprehend the reasoned answer you're giving them (you need to do well in school so that a decade from now you will hopefully get a good job isn't a very compelling argument when faced with homework versus fun tonight).

I do think there's a difference between a child asking why to no out of defiance and asking why because they're curious and truly don't understand something.

Andrewsgal

cjcouple said:

Andrewsgal said:

cjcouple said:

Andrewsgal said:

cjcouple said:

I think some people might need to step away from the computer!!!

cough.....AG..... cough.

I do find it rather humorous that you are telling me to teach my mute child to just keep quiet and accept no (which he can) when told. I promise you if my kid asked his teacher why she said no, the entire class including his teacher would be celebrating. lol

aim that target elsewhere lady.

When you know you are wrong play the SN card that's cool.

it has nothing to do with his SM. YOU are physically telling ME (you said cj teach your 8yo) to teach my kid a skill about something he can't do. and you know he is mute. it's not a secret.

clearly my kid doesn't pester his teacher.

but isn't it the hope that one day he will? And what about the other one. BTW I still think playing the SN card here is kind of gross.

have you read my posts? you are making a lot of assumptions here. stop attacking ME over something so minor and that isn't even an issue.

I asked for examples of situations where a child might be told no without reason it's not easy to give because most people just give reasons. I didn't say I disagreed with it. I said before I agree or disagree. I just could think of a reason it may happen. and guess what? a pp have me an example without attacking me.



I also followed up with "my kids don't always ask why". it must have just been something they learned along the way. I didn't set out to teach them that.

idc if you think it's gross. you attacked my parenting/kid over an issue that is nonexistent.

I think it's gross you jump on someone you don't even know irl over such a silly thing that may or may not be true.

relax, my parenting/kids have no effect on your life.

Maybe it's time for you to step away from these boards you seem to be playing the victim a lot lately.

kcisthebombdotcom

Andrewsgal said:

Andrewsgal said:

fintin said:

@kcisthebombdotcom‌ When I say no my child says "yes ma'am" because that's how we raised him. What we say goes. If I give him a reason great! If not the answers still no. He respects that. So no! I set my standards high for my child and he rises to the occasion.

Again different strokes for different folks but I consider that teaching compliance to adults vs teaching right from wrong. I want my kids to behave because they understand the rules and respect them, not just going along with what adults say.

What if they don't respect a rule? Seriously the speed limit in a road by my house is 30. It is ridiculous. I still have to follow it. There will always be rules in life we don't agree with and still have to follow. I have like 10 I can think of off the top of my head.

That's my main point. If you're learning to obey an authority vs a rule you're more inclined to break it when you're an adult and you don't have that person over you because you never actually learned self regulation. Most of the time when my son asks why to a rule (taking the fruit snack out of the example because that's one he's never been told) I can ask him "why do you think" and he tells me why, totally bypassing the back and forth power struggle/tantrum. It's really interesting to me that you're all gung-ho over positive discipline and then venture so far away from it on this issue.

In my example the only thing keeping me from speeding is fear of authority (cops) and consequences. You Know like accepting no because I said so.

The person who was taught to respect the rule would think to themselves that rule exists to keep people safe and would want to follow it. The person who was taught to obey out of fear of authority is going to try to bend the rule when they feel the authority figure isn't watching. Off topic I liked how this turned into a philosophical debate. Lol.

Andrewsgal

kcisthebombdotcom said:

penguingrrl said:

I also do think, though, that it's really important for some kids to understand that they aren't owed an explanation any time someone says no to them. I remember reading an article when Julia was little about how the way you handle things like this when a child is a toddler hard wires their brain and when they hit their teen years they will unconciously expect the same response. So if you teach a child that they will always get a satisfying answer to why you said no at two, when they're a teen they will have a harder time understanding that there isn't always a reason (sex being a huge place where no reason needs to be given, ever). And teens do not have the long-term thinking necessary to comprehend the reasoned answer you're giving them (you need to do well in school so that a decade from now you will hopefully get a good job isn't a very compelling argument when faced with homework versus fun tonight).

I do think there's a difference between a child asking why to no out of defiance and asking why because they're curious and truly don't understand something.



I think it's also important to realize that by my kids age they know the why 90% of the time. My kid knew I would say no to a slurpee today and he knew why. I don't owe him an explanation he is old/smart enough to figure it out. Just like teachers don't owe explanations to every rule.

jensriot

Holy hell this is hilarious. Who are these thin skinned people that get so easily offended by a four year old? I wouldn't give two shits if a mom told me directly that she didn't want her kid having fruit snacks because they are unhealthy, let alone little Johnny saying it. I get trying to teach tact to your kid, but I really don't sit around wondering how I can avoid my kid offending an adult over food.