Sex versus gender, and why it really does matter

kcbizme

molassa said:

Taken from this very app... FYI While I totally get what your intentions are, it isn't necessary to degrade a person who chooses one word over the other. We are all human beings after all.

Who's to say we're all human beings? Why can't I be a leprechaun or a fairy?

blinksmb

molassa said:

Taken from this very app... FYI

While I totally get what your intentions are, it isn't necessary to degrade a person who chooses one word over the other. We are all human beings after all.

I would much rather risk offending someone who is consciously making a decision, fully aware that it is degrading to others, than remain silent.
You're very right when you say that we are all human beings. That having been said, silence is often misconstrued as condoning, and knowingly choosing to use words that are incorrect and offensive to an expansive group of human beings is not something that anyone should sit back and condone.

Kaidi34

So curious, if it's such a topic that people feel no one should name their girl a boy name and boy a girl name because that child will be made fun of. Then wouldn't letting a boy wear girl clothes cause the same bullying?

beatlesgal4

@kaidi34 I personally don't care so much about boy names vs. girl names (unless they are really obvious like naming a girl Gary or something...) but I feel like the point is that you are picking their name, and they don't have control over that... at least for a long time. They would be picking the clothes they want to wear and would not be told they cannot wear something because it is meant for the other sex. Anyone correct me if I am wrong though.

crunchymamaof2

If you don't agree with the distinction fine, but on these boards the distinction is made. If you blatantly choose to ignore it you will be called out on it. Tolerance is big here. Willful ignorance or disrespect of others choices are not.

mrsmellie

I looked up both words in different dictionaries to get a better understanding. I think everyone should work to be very understanding of both sides of the argument! According to Merriam-Webster dictionary:

¹gen·der

 noun \ˈjen-dər\

: the state of being male or female

¹sex

 noun \ˈseks\

: the state of being male or female

crunchymamaof2

mrsmellie said:

I looked up both words in different dictionaries to get a better understanding. I think everyone should work to be very understanding of both sides of the argument! According to Merriam-Webster dictionary:

¹gen·der

 noun \ˈjen-dər\

: the state of being male or female

¹sex

 noun \ˈseks\

: the state of being male or female

There arent two sides. Sex= the organs you're born with. Gender= epwhat your brain identifies with. Just because someone has a penis doesn't mean they consider themselves a man.

I'm really thinking people who choose to argue this with such silly arguments are doing so just to be argumentative. If one truly believed there wasn't a difference they'd state that and move on. If you don't like how this board chooses to be considerate of all types of people you're more than welcome to leave.

Unknown

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Sjohnson829

Had a quote fail but when I looked it up in the Merriam-Webster dictionary it said, for gender: the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

beatlesgal4

mrsmellie said:

I looked up both words in different dictionaries to get a better understanding. I think everyone should work to be very understanding of both sides of the argument! According to Merriam-Webster dictionary:

¹gen·der

 noun \ˈjen-dər\

: the state of being male or female

¹sex

 noun \ˈseks\

: the state of being male or female

If you are looking at https://www.merriam-webster.com/, then they are using the Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 11th Edition which was published in 2003.

I cannot figure out what version www.oxforddictionaries.com uses, but they have editions that have been published much more recently.

If you are looking at a hard copy, what is the publication date? That would mean much more to me in this argument than the actual content. 2003 was a long time ago in terms of social norms.

kjohnson006

Love and respect. That is all.

mrsmellie

Here's the link for the definition of gender online: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender

Looking specifically at the blue portion and how it's definition is identical to sex: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sex

Always, remember that not everyone has to agree with you, your thoughts, and opinions. :-)

I am thankful to live in America where I have free speech. 

beatlesgal4

mrsmellie said:

Here's the link for the definition of gender online: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender

Looking specifically at the blue portion and how it's definition is identical to sex: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sex

Always, remember that not everyone has to agree with you, your thoughts, and opinions. :-)

I am thankful to live in America where I have free speech. 

1) This is essentially your prior post, but with more words.

2) Did you read the rest of the definitions that you linked to, or just stop after the first sentence? These are from the links you posted:

Full Definition of SEX

1

:  either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male especially on the basis of their reproductive organs and structures

2

:  the sum of the structural, functional, and behavioral characteristics of organisms that are involved in reproduction marked by the union of gametes and that distinguish males and females

3

a :  sexually motivated phenomena or behavior

b :  sexual intercourse

4

:  genitalia

Full Definition of GENDER

1

a :  a subclass within a grammatical class (as noun, pronoun, adjective, or verb) of a language that is partly arbitrary but also partly based on distinguishable characteristics (as shape, social rank, manner of existence, or sex) and that determines agreement with and selection of other words or grammatical forms

b :  membership of a word or a grammatical form in such a subclass

c :  an inflectional form showing membership in such a subclass

2

a :  sex <the feminine gender>

b :  the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

3) Yes, you are entitled to your own opinion. Did you read the initial post?? Nowhere did I say that everyone has to agree. Just as with many opinions, you may not be met with sunshine and rainbows when you present it. Especially if your opinion and your actions based off that opinion are offensive to others.

goofygoff

mrsmellie said:

Here's the link for the definition of gender online: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender

Looking specifically at the blue portion and how it's definition is identical to sex: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sex

Always, remember that not everyone has to agree with you, your thoughts, and opinions. :-)

I am thankful to live in America where I have free speech. 

Good share, but irrelevant as you are on an internet forum owned by a for profit corporation.

And while you are free to post anything that is not a TOU violation, we are also free to call out offensive bullshit.  

YorkieLove4

I just want to say that I've been well informed on this thread and am beyond thankful. Gender IS a big deal and is being talked about mainstream (see Ellen's recent post with Emma Watson, Ellen who is VERY mainstream with 16M followers and hello Emma Watson too). How I was oblivious to this issue before this and how others are still oblivious is beyond me. What a special snowflake I was, ha! And why are some not thankful to be educated on this?? A "look at this definition" doesn't change the facts and issue at hand. You are trying to disprove a clear issue affecting many people. OP has informed why the distinction is important, and has done so marvelously. Be compassionate or be ignorant, the choice is yours.

mariahd43

Joon+ said:

I think you ladies might be on to something here... I wonder if another underlying reason is that people consider gender a kind of pseudonym for sex. Like saying "passed away" instead of "died". People think it's the gentler, more polite way of saying the same thing (even though it's not the same thing) because of the other connotations that go along with the word sex. I could see that being a factor, especially among the conservative. Of course I agree it still needs to change, and I'm not saying it's a valid excuse, but maybe it's a contributor to the issue.

I fully admit that it's been my excuse in the past.... 

jvdurant

Are people seriously getting hate messages for their opinions? Everyone is clapping and praising, but I just couldn't get past the threat/warning of backlash. Is it just me? I now understand the difference in the terms. Thanks for that bit of info. But do people really get that angry when they are used incorrectly? I'm sure the context clues will tell you what they actually mean to say. Is it cause for getting bent out of shape?

jvdurant

TheNetwork said:

willfully ignoring the distinction is hurtful and offensive to a group of people who are already marginalized. If you use the wrong terms anywhere on TB you will be called out. That's not a "threat" it's the right thing to do.

Yeah, as a person who has used the words interchangeably, I can say that in doing so my conversation had nothing to do with the marginalization of any group of people. Didn't even know it was that touchy a subject. So imagine my confusion upon hearing this for the first time. I'm guessing that is the case with many people. However, whether a person is purposefully using the words to hurt others or just ignorant of the difference is not an excuse to react without the maturity that you would expect from others.

beatlesgal4

"If you made no distinction between the two terms but only because you legitimately did not know that there was one, that is a different story. The distinction is fairly new, and it happens. However, do not be surprised if the lack of knowledge annoys most of the active members, and even some newer members of this board, because some days (and this is no exaggeration) we see between 5 and 10 posts about “Baby’s gender” per day. Your lack of reading previous posts, not necessarily your lack of knowing the distinction between terms, will most likely be met with snark and gifs."

---------End quote----------

I would hardly call this "hate messages."

stine28

jvdurant said:

Yeah, as a person who has used the words interchangeably, I can say that in doing so my conversation had nothing to do with the marginalization of any group of people. Didn't even know it was that touchy a subject. So imagine my confusion upon hearing this for the first time. I'm guessing that is the case with many people. However, whether a person is purposefully using the words to hurt others or just ignorant of the difference is not an excuse to react without the maturity that you would expect from others.

FORTHELOVEOFALLTHATISHOLY, I AM SICK OF SEEING NEWBIES ARGUE ABOUT THE INTENTIONS OF THIS THREAD.

1) This thread is titled "Sex versus gender, and why it really does matter". It was obviously created to be educational.

2) Every woman who has responded to defend this thread knows that some people are unaware of the difference between the terms. That's why this educational post was written and stickied.

3) It is only once someone has admitted that they are aware of the difference between the terms but they still refuse to use them correctly, or they choose to argue about how the difference doesn't matter that the women defending this post get up in arms. Because the difference DOES matter. It matters a whole fucking lot. And yeah, the difference is worth arguing for when someone blatantly displays their lack of give-a-damn for people who are different from themselves.

jvdurant

I'm not arguing the intention of the thread. Sex=in your jeans/genes Gender=in your mind. ✔️ My question is why are people upset to the point of "snark and gifs"?!? Suck teeth, roll eyes, move on, but don't lose sleep over the small stuff. Someone used the word gender wrongly on purpose...I just can't see how this is a major concern. I've seen direct insults in some of these threads that are more offensive and no one blinked.

stine28

jvdurant said:

I'm not arguing the intention of the thread. Sex=in your jeans/genes Gender=in your mind. ✔️ My question is why are people upset to the point of "snark and gifs"?!? Suck teeth, roll eyes, move on, but don't lose sleep over the small stuff. Someone used the word gender wrongly on purpose...I just can't see how this is a major concern. I've seen direct insults in some of these threads that are more offensive and no one blinked.

So you are arguing that we feel TOO PASSIONATELY about an important issue? You disagree about the way we show our passion? Why do you care about how we argue our points?

Fuck off. You don't fit in here.

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jvdurant

I understand the passion, the struggle for those who are different. I don't understand childishness and profanity of any kind to argue a point. Probably the same thing this group of people get for being different. But never mind, I don't fit here anyway. I'm done. You're right, I'm wrong for asking a question.

kellbell1982

@jvdurant‌ is this really the thread you want to be known for? This is a wonderful community and though I don't post a ton I consider myself a regular and am genuinely excited and happy for my fellow bumpies when good things happen for them and cry with them during bad times. If a term is discriminatory towards any group or demographic why not just abandon it? Why argue?

janda426

jvdurant said:

I understand the passion, the struggle for those who are different. I don't understand childishness and profanity of any kind to argue a point. Probably the same thing this group of people get for being different. But never mind, I don't fit here anyway. I'm done. You're right, I'm wrong for asking a question.

What exactly was your question? Because all I saw was you telling everyone to essentially get over it and quit making it a big deal.

jvdurant

Okay let me take one last stab at this. Because you guys feel I am just being insensitive when I really don't understand. Okay here we go. How are the words sex and gender PURPOSEFULLY being used to offend others? Give me an example to work with so I get a better view of how offensive it gets. I understand words such as: faggot, pansy, dyke, shemale, etc. being offensive. Is the sex/gender mix up on that same level? Next: Does responding with snark and gifs improve the situation? Is it okay to do that get your point across? Sorry I'm not convinced that any snark or gifs used in this situation would be in good fun and that you aren't upset. I get that this is an educational post to prevent the continuation of this mix up. However everyone will not read this post and someone will do it again. So in an individual case isn't it better to correct them with facts instead of a sarcastic photo or snide remark? I'm certain those weren't prime tactics used in the civil rights movement.

janda426

jvdurant said:

Okay let me take one last stab at this. Because you guys feel I am just being insensitive when I really don't understand. Okay here we go. How are the words sex and gender PURPOSEFULLY being used to offend others? Give me an example to work with so I get a better view of how offensive it gets. I understand words such as: faggot, pansy, dyke, shemale, etc. being offensive. Is the sex/gender mix up on that same level? Next: Does responding with snark and gifs improve the situation? Is it okay to do that get your point across? Sorry I'm not convinced that any snark or gifs used in this situation would be in good fun and that you aren't upset. I get that this is an educational post to prevent the continuation of this mix up. However everyone will not read this post and someone will do it again. So in an individual case isn't it better to correct them with facts instead of a sarcastic photo or snide remark? I'm certain those weren't prime tactics used in the civil rights movement.

Oh, they are 100% given the correct information on every single thread that incorrectly mixes sex and gender. 99% of the time a thread turns into a gif-fest is when it's obviously a troll or the person starts throwing heavy insults such as calling us cunts or something. You're obviously confused.

This thread is purely educational, which definitely was a prime tactic used during civil rights. And you're right, not everyone will read it. So we shouldn't even bother trying? That's nice.

As for the first part of your comment, no one said they're throwing the words out there to be offensive. But for example, if someone always heard the word "retarded" used to define something they don't like and one day used it in a sentence. Would it not be correct to inform them that's NOT an acceptable synonym for what they really mean and they're being offensive? We aren't mad that people confuse the terms. We're mad when we correct them and they insist on using the terms KNOWING how offensive they're being.

But this has all been explained in this thread already and part of me believes you just want to argue.

jvdurant

Didn't come to argue, and I'm not dense. This was not even fun. I just don't take a things I don't understand at face value. so I'm going to ask until I do understand. And if I have to reword it 10 times before I get it then so be it. That is the point of this thread right? To understand why it matters? So I didn't understand why it bothered people so much. You may be annoyed but I'm glad I didn't F-off as I was told to do by some of the wonderful folks here because janda426 answered my question to where I could understand. Now I get it, people decide to be blatantly rude or trolling after you have explained the differences and it becomes a steam roll of gifs. What I was thinking was someone posted something particularly offensive right off the bat and was met with comments just as offensive. I still think you should ignore those who act to offend after you have corrected them. Why waste your time on people who refuse to care at that point? Just my opinion if that's allowed here. In spite of those who won't read this, I don't think this post was unnecessary or pointless to anyone who did. I learned something new. Sorry I gave you the impression that I came here for the sole purpose of pissing people off. Not my intention.

jvdurant

@Giblins‌ thanks for that. I understand now. Sorry if this is what everyone was saying and it just wasn't clicking and it got tiresome. But thank you for a reply without cursing or telling me I'm an idiot that doesn't belong here. Much appreciated.

jvdurant

Whoops sorry I meant @EmpireRecords24‌

blinksmb

I thought maybe here was a good place to share this. The United Nations human rights council just passed a "resolution that condemns discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity." Change is happening, albeit slowly, as a direct result of individuals who refuse to sit back and passively condone discrimination.
Don't let the trolls dissuade you.

https://chicagophoenix.com/2014/09/26/united-nations-human-rights-council-votes-to-support-lgbt-rights/

sellers7

Have we become so darn politically correct that we are actually concerned about this? Let me tell you, ladies, (and it's not just the hormones talking) we need to find more pertinent issues to take up our time. This post makes it so clear that we are entirely way too concerned about social qualms rather than issues against the human race. SAD.

createmagic14

sellers7 said:

Have we become so darn politically correct that we are actually concerned about this? Let me tell you, ladies, (and it's not just the hormones talking) we need to find more pertinent issues to take up our time. This post makes it so clear that we are entirely way too concerned about social qualms rather than issues against the human race. SAD.

Goodbye.  Seriously.  GTFO.  

beatlesgal4

sellers7 said:

Have we become so darn politically correct that we are actually concerned about this? Let me tell you, ladies, (and it's not just the hormones talking) we need to find more pertinent issues to take up our time. This post makes it so clear that we are entirely way too concerned about social qualms rather than issues against the human race. SAD.

This is a "pertinent issue" for a lot of people. If you don't feel that way, then why did you "take up your time" commenting here? FFS this whole thread is an attempt to inform people that the distinction needs to start being made for human rights.

crunchymamaof2

@sellers7 this isn't an issue pertaining to the human race? Are you fucking kidding?

lawsonellis

So I've read most of this thread, and I have a legitimate question (I think):

Firstly I agree with this post. It's important to know the difference and to be cognizant of using the terms appropriately. I have several people I care about that identify with non-traditional gender identities and it means so much to them to recognize that.

My question is- how can we get bloggers and web developer to know the difference and respect it? The Bump itself uses the term "gender" to describe guessing the sex of the child (I.e. Chinese gender chart. Gender game. Gender guessing etc)

For people who genuinely don't know, seeing that stuff online and then coming here and using it incorrectly, only to be corrected by forum users, may find the correction to be erroneous since the site itself uses it incorrectly.

Just curious as to everyone's thoughts on this

stine28

sellers7 said:

Have we become so darn politically correct that we are actually concerned about this? Let me tell you, ladies, (and it's not just the hormones talking) we need to find more pertinent issues to take up our time. This post makes it so clear that we are entirely way too concerned about social qualms rather than issues against the human race. SAD.

Wait, wait, wait. "Social qualms"? Are you one of those people who doesn't "believe" in homosexuality or gender identity disorders? Cause you can fuck right off with that opinion.

beatlesgal4

@lawsonellis It's a great question. Perhaps a starting-off point would be writing a (polite and well-written) letter to The Bump asking if it is something they would consider? They have several ways to contact them- I'm thinking maybe the editorial one since it would be more in line with their articles? I'm really not sure though.

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lawsonellis

Excellent!! I will do this!