Intro and help me with sleep, please!! (13 mos old twins)

CNYBride05

I'm new here :-)  And exhausted.  I read a post below that is so similar to what I'm about to write, so I feel like I'm in the right place :-) 

I have 13 month old twins.  We co-slept with them in RnPs for the 1st 6ish mos and then transitioned them to cribs in their own room, but we slept on the guest bed in there ;-)  That got old fast so we opted to bedshare, back in our own bed. 

We don't like CIO and I BF on demand when I am with them (although at our pedi's recommendation, I try to distract them to extend time between nursing during the day, with the hope that it would extend night time feedings as well....  it hasn't worked so far).  I work 3 days/wk and the girls are in DC and they happily and easily separate.  I don't want to night wean, but I am getting really tired of nursing all night long (both of them!) and am getting very little sleep.  If I don't nurse, they scream and pull on my shirt.  The path of least resistance is to nurse and we call go to sleep for a little while and then it starts all over.  They are literally eating every 2ish hrs all night long...  Suggestions?  Ideas? 

I have more questions/concerns, but I'll stop there for now.  Thanks for reading and hi!!

PumpkinAndThePeanut

I remember you from the Multiples board. I was wmorgan003 but I haven't posted there in a long time. My girls are now 16 months old and we BF and bed-share too. I also work full time.

How do your girls do with solids? Are they nursing at night for hunger or just for comfort? How long have you been back to work and how long have they been waking up so much? Mine reverse cycled when I went back to work at 4.5 months, but they started sleeping a lot better around 8 months or so... Do you notice a different pattern on the days you work vs the days you don't?

I think it's weird your pedi suggested spacing out the daytime feedings to help with overnight feeds. Wouldn't you want to let them eat as much as they want during the day so they don't get hungry overnight? Maybe I read that wrong!

I let mine nurse (a lot!) in the evenings before bed, plus they are pretty good eaters when it comes to solids. They each go to bed in their cribs around 8-9 pm then we bring them into our bed after their first wakeup, usually around midnight. They will both wake up and nurse maybe once or twice after that, but mostly just a quick session for comfort. I sleep with one on either side of me and I sleep in a nursing t-shirt. I half-wake when they want to nurse, pull my shirt down so they can latch, then I go back to sleep while they suck for a couple of minutes. I've been in your shoes and it was so hard, but if you don't want to wean, I would keep doing what you're doing and trust that they'll get past this phase.

CNYBride05

Thanks ladies. The peid's rationale was that if they are eating every 2 hrs during the day, their bodies are used to eating every 2 hrs and their blood sugar will fluctuate accordingly. So if they get used to going longer during the day, they'll be able to go longer at nite as well. It makes sense to me, but so does tanking them up during the day. I'm so torn and I just want some sleep!!

Re solids - they eat 3 meals. On DC days, they have 2 snacks as well. On home days, they don't have food snacks, just boob snacks. And I don't know if I mentioned in my original post, but they are in DC 3 days/wk.

Ever since their 4 mos sleep regression, they've only slept 2 hrs at a time. I do think sometimes they are hungry at nite, but would like them to learn to go longer than 2 hrs.... I guess the comfort measures would be craptastic at first and then they'd settle into a new routine and it will be worth it. Right now, anything that gives me even less sleep is wholly unappealing!

PumpkinAndThePeanut

I would try nursing /giving sippy cups of milk as much as they want during the day and see if that makes any difference at night. Do you sleep with one on each side of you when you bed-share? Mine usually wake for comfort; they just want to be near me, so they latch for a couple of minutes or they snuggle up to me. I often wake with one in the crook of each arm. If that isn't your current sleeping arrangement, maybe you could try it and see if the constant physical proximity to you is enough to enable them to put themselves back to sleep without nursing?

CNYBride05

@PumpkinAndThePeanut‌, yup, that's how we sleep. I'm not comfortable sleeping on my back, so that's part of the issue too . I'm going to try the cluster feeding approach in the evening and see if that helps. I'm not hopeful - it's so habitual for them now (to not sleep more than 2 hrs at a time) and they can't seem to settle themselves after they wake.

PumpkinAndThePeanut

I hope things get better for you soon!
I have always been a side sleeper and had to get used to sleeping on my back. I still get uncomfortable and try to roll them away from me just a bit so I can shift onto my side for a while. Then I have the dog between my feet, LOL. It's tough feeling like you can't move or get comfortable!

opheliainwaders

I have no experience with twins, so this may be a totally whackadoo suggestion, but what if you put them to bed together, (crib or floor mattress) but without you? Would snuggling together help them sleep, but limit night-nursing?

Also, DD was waking every 2-3 hours to eat until about 11m. What worked for us was to make sure she was well-fed before bed, and then have DH handle all wakeups until midnight, then until 2am, then 4am, and now she typically sleeps overnight (except last night, where it was party time from 3:30-5...). This was not a totally tear-free way to handle it, but she never cried alone, and we did it slowly (about a week at each stage). If there was ever a night when DH couldn't calm her, then she'd nurse, and we'd just take it in stride, and keep on trying the next night.

Not sure how that will work with bedsharing twins, but maybe some of the techniques in No Cry Toddler Sleep Solution might help? I know there's a lot in there re: techniques that work with bedsharing.

CNYBride05

Yeah, I think we'll have to bite the bullet re the crying and some sleepless nites. I can't ever tell if they are full so I feel like I should always offer the boob. But chances are, they don't need it every single time .

I'm not sure they snuggle if we put them together... I like the idea, but I think they'd just be crazy ladies .

I really appreciate all your thoughts.

=Lee=B

My daughter nursed every 2hr, round the clock for the first 13months.  It stopped when I stopped bedsharing...at night she was waking because she was bumping into me and waking going 'oh, right, boob'.  Once she was in her crib she stopped waking so often...still too often but not every 2hrs.  Now at 17months she sleeps 13-14hrs each night, often with no wake ups but sometimes once of us has to go and give her soother and blanket so she goes back to sleep.

We have a video monitor...she moves around ALOT in her sleep...when we bedshare she wakes because it is me she bumps into. 

While it is unlikely they NEED food through the night their bodies are USED to food and therefore they need it.  I felt better easing off the nursings, spacing them out more and slowly reducing the number of feeds rather than just one day saying 'no more food between the hours of 7:30pm and 7:30am).  It helped to send my husband in to calm first...then he would bring her to me if she clearly needed to nurse.  After a week of that she had broken the every 2hr routine so I was able to try some other soothing techniques before offering the boob.

I always rationalized it like you, it was so much easier to just nurse.  But long run it isn't easier because you are left exhausted.  It will take a lot of time and effort to break the habit but in the long run everyone does benefit!!

CNYBride05

@=Lee=B, we finally followed your suggestion and stopped bedsharing. It's been sad, but also we still aren't sleeping!! Would love to know how you spaced feedings w/o your LO going bonkers! Now, instead of nursing all nite long, I have to fully wake and go feed them (generally one at a time, sometimes tandem). All my mama friends say I should just nite wean but I'm not ready to do that. Were you able to continue one nite feed and not have your LO very confused?

UnofficiallyLO

I agree with reading no cry sleep solution. I bed share with my 6 month old and he wakes twice as much now as he did at 3 months to nurse. He eats solids 3 times a day and I started supplementing with formula as well to keep him full as he is off the charts growth wise. No cry offers bed sharing ideas as well as how to wean them from using you as a sleep crutch which I am working on now. I can't imagine with two! Good luck to you mama.

opheliainwaders

@CNYBride05‌ is your DH able to calm them without you at all? It took mine a few days to find a rhythm with DD, but once he had his way of soothing her to sleep, then we could have him take over more of the wakings, and then they kind of faded away once there wasn't so much boob involved. But it did take quite a while the first couple of nights.

CNYBride05

@opheliainwaders‌, yes he can, amazingly well, except when they are hungry

opheliainwaders

CNYBride05 said:

@opheliainwaders‌, yes he can, amazingly well, except when they are hungry

Man, those babies! Always having needs!!

GillianB32

ClaryPax said:

I like Jay Gorden's approach to night weaning.  You might want to dream feed them when you go to bed and then try to just feed them 1 time after that and the rest of the time just use the other comfort measures.  

Never heard about dream feeding. Could you elaborate or give me a link with further information?

CNYBride05

@gillianb32, dream feeding is when you feed while LO is still sleeping. Some people think it's helpful, but in my experience, it doesn't give us much more sleep time on the whole. They just wake and feel like they missed a feeding

GillianB32

@ClaryPax , @CNYBride05 , thanks so much for explaining. I think I would be anxious that kids make choke if they eat while partly sleeping... What are your thoughts on this?

CNYBride05

Choking never once occurred to me. They wake a but when you out your boob by their face and nurse. It's not as though you are dangling a boob above them and squirting milk in their mouth while they lie in their back. So yeah, I wouldn't worry about choking

GillianB32

ClaryPax said:

@GillianB32- I had done it for many months with 2 kids and they never choked.  They are in some cases fast asleep and in other cases partially awake, but then go right back asleep because they are so sleepy.  I think swallowing liquid is for the most part instinctual.  It would be no different than if they nurse while they are sleeping or dazed etc, just one is them initiating and one is mom initiating.  If they don't want to eat, then they just don't eat.  They shut their mouth or turn their head etc.  I probably didn't do it in the newborn stage, it is more for when their sleep is starting to consolidate. 

Oh I see thanks. That sounds calming