Clicky Poll - A controversial one.

GraceInCA

Before you vote, read the blog post. You may have already seen this, because it has been all over social media.

https://applesandbandaidsblog.com/2014/06/11/my-husband-doesnt-need-to-see-your-boobs/

Cricket81

She just sounds too controlling of her husband for me to have much sympathy for her.

mysticial

I can understand where she is coming from in a sense, not that I agree though. My question is what about when they are out in public.... does she lead her husband around blind folded, just incase he might see something he likes?

GraceInCA

First of all, I think this poor woman has issues. Serious issues. The story about how controlling her father was over her wardrobe makes me think that there are major things going on beneath the surface. That story alone gave me the heeby-jeebies.

This paragraph really stuck out to me: "After Memorial Day, I noticed so much skin on social media that I half-yelled a warning to him as I ran out the door one morning. It’s summertime, honey! Beware the beach pics and half nude girls on Instagram! And like that, he was in solitary confinement from all virtual community for the next two days."

 

Wait, WHAT? You put your husband on social media lockdown because of your insecurities? That can't end well.

KittenGator

(I'm struggling to say this without offending anyone because I really don't mean to offend!)

I voted the top option but I guess I'm somewhere in between the top and the third option. 

On the one hand, I do agree with her. I have probably what's considered society's "ideal" body but I've always chosen to cover up. I think modesty is a good thing. Also, as secure as I am in my own flesh, I think when women step out in the least amount of clothing possible it creates contests and wars amongst us. It ups the ante so what was sexy before isn't sexy any more. As women we compare ourselves to each other and men compare us to each other too and if it keeps getting more and more competitive, someone like me will never "win" and it sucks that in order to "win" I would have to compromise my beliefs.

But on the other hand, I don't judge anyone who doesn't dress as conservatively as I do. People should be allowed to wear whatever they want (this is where I lean towards the third option), I just wish overall dressing conservatively was more desirable, I would just never impose my beliefs on that on other women. I WISH it were a certain way but it's not, so all I can do is control myself and empower other women to be comfortable with themselves and not do things because of what other people think.

I also have a great marriage and my husband is respectful towards me, so I try not to think about it too much He thinks I'm sexy, a good mom, a nice person, and all of the other things that really matter, and I love me so that helps too.

(edit: words- I had to mention that I love me.)

WasNotWas

My first reaction is are you fucking kidding me? Give your husband some credit that he's not some barbaric cave animal that can't control his urges at the sight of women's flesh. If anything, seeing tons of nearly naked women desensitizes men to seeing naked ladies. This is out of control BSC

WasNotWas

And shame on her dad for giving so much power to other people's opinions of how she dresses.

KittenGator

WasNotWas said:

My first reaction is are you fucking kidding me? Give your husband some credit that he's not some barbaric cave animal that can't control his urges at the sight of women's flesh. If anything, seeing tons of nearly naked women desensitizes men to seeing naked ladies. This is out of control BSC

That part made me feel like there's more to the story than is included in the post. Like maybe her self-esteem issues are crushing her and ruining their marriage. Or he had a porn addiction? Or something. She briefly mentioned that he tries but I just wonder what the background is there.

WasNotWas

@KittenGator said:

WasNotWas said:

My first reaction is are you fucking kidding me? Give your husband some credit that he's not some barbaric cave animal that can't control his urges at the sight of women's flesh. If anything, seeing tons of nearly naked women desensitizes men to seeing naked ladies. This is out of control BSC

That part made me feel like there's more to the story than is included in the post. Like maybe her self-esteem issues are crushing her and ruining their marriage. Or he had a porn addiction? Or something. She briefly mentioned that he tries but I just wonder what the background is there.



I think she and her husband need to step away from the social media and try to make their marriage work. As soon as you are trying to control the world, you are out of control.

KittenGator

subliminalrabbit said:

@kittengator, I think your position, while ultimately desiring the same outcome as the author, doesn't seem to come from exactly the same POV.  And your POV isn't at all offensive -- while I may not be in complete agreement, I completely respect it because it stems from seems to be a deeper philosophy -- whereas the author's seems to come from a place of insecurity.

I would agree with this. I think you summarized it better and more succinctly than I did

WasNotWas

@KittenGator‌ I think empowering women to find sources of self esteem outside of male attention is the best way to encourage overall more conservative dress. The other half of that is teaching men to respect women. Fortunately, as mothers, we have the opportunity to do both (or either). But trying to make someone feel something you want them to (whether it's that the author wants girls to feel shameful for what they are wearing or her husband to feel guilty for looking at all the bewbs) is the opposite way to achieve your goals

WasNotWas

One more thought, just because you say you aren't judging doesn't mean you aren't judging (directed at author of article not kitten)

WasNotWas

O lord, I'm reading some of her other posts and she is wildly insecure and should probably stop attention seeking from the internet

KittenGator

WasNotWas said:

@KittenGator‌ I think empowering women to find sources of self esteem outside of male attention is the best way to encourage overall more conservative dress. The other half of that is teaching men to respect women. Fortunately, as mothers, we have the opportunity to do both (or either). But trying to make someone feel something you want them to (whether it's that the author wants girls to feel shameful for what they are wearing or her husband to feel guilty for looking at all the bewbs) is the opposite way to achieve your goals

I agree with this. One day when I was 15 I decided that I would be the best me possible- I would be kind, smart, work hard and always look to lift other up- and if other people didn't like that, my hands were tied. I didn't need their validation anyways. It was freeing and has really helped me develop a healthy amount of self-esteem. It's sad when people don't think much of themselves. I also agree that it seems like she wants women to be ashamed if they dress a certain way, which isn't the answer either. 

WasNotWas

Wow Kitten, that's amazing that you found that at 15. I could have used a "you" in my life at 15!!

KittenGator

WasNotWas said:

Wow Kitten, that's amazing that you found that at 15. I could have used a "you" in my life at 15!!

It was after a few torturous and acne-ridden years of wondering why this boy I liked never liked me back, lol. My best friend was/is hot and they all wanted her, and surely my life couldn't continue that same way under those circumstances, lol  8-|

cafecreme

subliminalrabbit said:

I'll admit that sometimes when I come across photos of beautiful, single Hollywood starlet friends at the beach on social media, I'll get a little twinge -- of jealousy.  Yes, I think social media can amp up unrealistic expectations of one's body image already set by fashion magazines.  But there's also a balance on social media of all shapes and sizes that aren't often found in more traditional media.

To fear that your marriage can't survive the fact that your single friends with enough spare time to work out and no postpartum jigglies or scars post photos of themselves on social media?  That just seems like really deep-seeded insecurity.

Ding ding ding! 

numbersgirl08

I come from a very conservative background.

Two moments regarding "modesty" stick out in my mind:

I was in middle school at a youth retreat. I wore a spaghetti strap tank that wasn't very tight. One of the women volunteering told me my shirt was inappropriate and it was too revealing. I remember crying in the bathroom because all I heard was "slutty" (she never said that or used that word, but that is what I heard).

And another moment - in COLLEGE with one of my really good friends. I had worn a spaghetti strap tank that wasn't tight to a Bible study. And she told me later that her boyfriend mentioned how revealing my top was and that he couldn't believe I'd wear it. All I felt, again, was "you look slutty."

Many of my friends run in the crowd where every summer on Facebook posts about modesty pop up. Women, protect men by covering yourself up! Women, don't defraud yourselves. Women, show respect to the guys in your life who have absolutely no ability to control themselves.

I very much appreciate and support women choosing to dress modestly. But it's NOT fair to blame us when guys can't control themselves. We can't shoulder the burden of every porn addiction out there or every wandering eye. That's not fair and it reinforces the concept of women as nothing more than boobs and butts.

It's not fair to shame girls and young women who are already self conscious. Don't make innocent girls feel slutty when that's so far from the truth. Let's build women up rather than tear them down, like she does in her post.

I will encourage N to dress modestly. And I will teach her that boys are boys. But I will not tell her that it is her job to keep a guy pure in his thoughts.

And if I have a boy, I will teach him (best I possibly can) to treat all women with respect - those wearing tankinis with skirts AND those wearing bikinis.

KittenGator

numbersgirl08 said:

But it's NOT fair to blame us when guys can't control themselves. We can't shoulder the burden of every porn addiction out there or every wandering eye. That's not fair and it reinforces the concept of women as nothing more than boobs and butts. 

So many agrees with all of this. The first part- blaming us- is very rape culture-y. The second part- objectification- is really not okay either. We have souls, too.

ilovemarfa

She needs to find a therapist to deal with her insecurities. I do get a little envious of women with nice bodies (mine's a hot mess after 2 kids within 3 years) but I would never tell women to cover themselves up in an attempt to shield my husband. I feel bad for her because she has some issues.

WasNotWas

@steamboat123 said:

https://thesaltcollective.org/modesty-whensuitsbecomestumblingblock/

If you like satire.

Love this. Can we talk about those grey cotton sweatpants that guys always wear without underwear too?!


...derails thread...

numbersgirl08

steamboat123 said:

https://thesaltcollective.org/modesty-whensuitsbecomestumblingblock/

If you like satire.

I saw this awhile back and loved it!

BC&LM

I can understand the body issues, but she has no right to dictate the way other people behave on social media, and she seems too controlling of her husband. So I voted option #3.

lioness13

numbersgirl08 said:

And if I have a boy, I will teach him (best I possibly can) to treat all women with respect - those wearing tankinis with skirts AND those wearing bikinis.

This is how we take our power back. We are the primary teachers of boys and men. We teach them how to treat us. We have to teach our sons. It's women that judge and label other women as nice girls or sluts. And we teach men to do it. That's what we need to stop doing. NOW!

PS- @numbersgirl08‌ - you must look hott (with 2 t's) in a spaghetti strap tank top. Please don't ever post a pic of yourself in one because It might ruin my marriage.

lioness13

Titty Tuesday has ruined my marriage. If you don't know what this is, your husband probably does. Since I'm blaming that then I might as well blame the whole internet. The whole internet should burn in hell!!!! Except you guys. I love you guys!

momofcatan

I was not sure how I felt about this. I am (proud to be) part of a community that values modesty, in clothing and actions. I'll just share one thought I had this morning.

There has been a lot of discussion in my community (jewish - orthodox) about "letting the internet in your home". This is a community where a lot of people choose not to have TVs/cable because they consider a lot of the content inappropriate and don't want any of it in their homes (We have 2 TVs and I watched Orange in the New Black with DH, so you can see when I stand on this issue ). The internet is not as easy to block out as it is becoming a necessity, so there has been a lot of discussion about parents/adults being knowledgeable about the internet and how to set up filters on different devices etc. I am happy to see my community takign these steps (not a fan the factions that just say the internet in the devil, you must avoid it) to be informed consumers.

I guess that it the background on my feelings about this blog post. I can see why someone would want to tell women to think twice about the pictures they post of themselves, or the outfits they wear, for a couple of reasons. But to say that it is because it is ruining her marriage? No way. If she is seriously concerned that all the pictures on instragram are going to ruin her marriage (I'm going to say maybe they can) her and her husband need to have a serious conversation about what HE should CHOOSE to look at on the internet. She should not be telling all the other ladies out there what to do. My opinion is that her and her husband need to sit down and discuss if they, as a team, think he should be on facebook, instagram, etc. Those things are not necessities, and if they cause a real problem with their marriage (I believe there is a small chance they could) then it is something they should discuss avoiding. Not half a thought she should yell to him as she is halfway out the door. The responsibility is on her husband, not the rest of the world.

That is so much longer than I intended...

buggybear87

I don't post very often, but wanted to weigh in.  

While I don't agree with the way the author went about stating her beliefs (coming out of a lack of self-esteem), I do agree with the overall concept of her post.  None of us will deny that men are visual and there is no way that we can stop them from seeing every girl or picture of a girl that isn't dressed modestly.  But I do think that we as women need to have a little more respect for each other.  So many say "Well it's not my problem if you don't feel secure in yourself, or if your husband has a wandering eye" but what would it look like if we said "I respect you as a woman and your marriage enough not to put my boobs in your husbands brain"?

My husband is very respectful and loves me unconditionally.  I do have issues with my body but he tells me I'm beautiful.  I know he would never do anything to hurt our marriage.  But that doesn't mean that I want him bombarded with images that can make him stumble.

WasNotWas

buggybear87 said:

I don't post very often, but wanted to weigh in.  

While I don't agree with the way the author went about stating her beliefs (coming out of a lack of self-esteem), I do agree with the overall concept of her post.  None of us will deny that men are visual and there is no way that we can stop them from seeing every girl or picture of a girl that isn't dressed modestly.  But I do think that we as women need to have a little more respect for each other.  So many say "Well it's not my problem if you don't feel secure in yourself, or if your husband has a wandering eye" but what would it look like if we said "I respect you as a woman and your marriage enough not to put my boobs in your husbands brain"?

My husband is very respectful and loves me unconditionally.  I do have issues with my body but he tells me I'm beautiful.  I know he would never do anything to hurt our marriage.  But that doesn't mean that I want him bombarded with images that can make him stumble.

Wait, what? Are we really treating men this way? Do you understand that the bolded statement speaks to everything that the rape culture represents? That women are asking for it by the way they act/dress and that men just can't help themselves? Why should single (or married women for that matter) have to take into account what ANYONE else thinks of their body when getting dressed?

Obviously there are religious opinions, that I absolutely respect, that encourage women to dress modestly, but even they are more about self-respect and not about what other people think (or at least they should be). The important take away is...it is none of your business what I wear or why I wear it, if you care that is your issue, NOT MINE.

BunnyLove416

Normally something like this would make me all ragey about the absurd idea that it's a woman's job to censor herself and her wardrobe in order to 'protect men from themselves', both because it promotes an idea that women are to blame and the idea that all men are stupid scumbags. But this particular post just makes me sad because clearly this woman has some deep deep insecurity/body image/self worth issues. 

BunnyLove416

buggybear87 said:

I don't post very often, but wanted to weigh in.  

While I don't agree with the way the author went about stating her beliefs (coming out of a lack of self-esteem), I do agree with the overall concept of her post.  None of us will deny that men are visual and there is no way that we can stop them from seeing every girl or picture of a girl that isn't dressed modestly.  But I do think that we as women need to have a little more respect for each other.  So many say "Well it's not my problem if you don't feel secure in yourself, or if your husband has a wandering eye" but what would it look like if we said "I respect you as a woman and your marriage enough not to put my boobs in your husbands brain"?

My husband is very respectful and loves me unconditionally.  I do have issues with my body but he tells me I'm beautiful.  I know he would never do anything to hurt our marriage.  But that doesn't mean that I want him bombarded with images that can make him stumble.

I'm sorry but this is just silly. My husband is welcome to look at whatever he'd like, as am I, our marriage is based on far more. . What would it look like if we said 'I respect you and whatever you choose to wear and I have enough confidence in my partner and their moral worth/intelligence not to feel threatened by how much of your body they may see on Instagram."? 

WasNotWas

Since I can't seem to shut up about it...I certainly don't divert my eyes when I see a sexy nearly naked man. I oogle and my pants disintegrate all the time when I see the sexiness, why can't men do the same? Double standards have a place (like mowing the yard! ...kidding, kinda) but this is not it.  

ilovemarfa

I saw this video awhile ago and I do agree with her message.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WJVHRJbgLz8

needanustart

This is bananas. I know DH loves me and my body in a way that won't be affected by any image he sees online. I also don't see anything wrong with admiring a a nice pair of knockers whether you are a guy or a girl.
This person definitely has issues and I feel bad for both her and her husband. These type of insecurities have to be exhausting for both of them.

buggybear87

WasNotWas said:

buggybear87 said:

I don't post very often, but wanted to weigh in.  

While I don't agree with the way the author went about stating her beliefs (coming out of a lack of self-esteem), I do agree with the overall concept of her post.  None of us will deny that men are visual and there is no way that we can stop them from seeing every girl or picture of a girl that isn't dressed modestly.  But I do think that we as women need to have a little more respect for each other.  So many say "Well it's not my problem if you don't feel secure in yourself, or if your husband has a wandering eye" but what would it look like if we said "I respect you as a woman and your marriage enough not to put my boobs in your husbands brain"?

My husband is very respectful and loves me unconditionally.  I do have issues with my body but he tells me I'm beautiful.  I know he would never do anything to hurt our marriage.  But that doesn't mean that I want him bombarded with images that can make him stumble.

Wait, what? Are we really treating men this way? Do you understand that the bolded statement speaks to everything that the rape culture represents? That women are asking for it by the way they act/dress and that men just can't help themselves? Why should single (or married women for that matter) have to take into account what ANYONE else thinks of their body when getting dressed?

Obviously there are religious opinions, that I absolutely respect, that encourage women to dress modestly, but even they are more about self-respect and not about what other people think (or at least they should be). The important take away is...it is none of your business what I wear or why I wear it, if you care that is your issue, NOT MINE.

I'm not saying that women are asking for anything.  There is no reason that a man should ACT on anything because of the way that a woman dresses, talks, acts, etc. I am coming from a Christian perspective that we are all suppose to help each other with our weaknesses.  

This being said, if a man has trouble with lust, he probably shouldn't go to the beach because it isn't everyone else's job to cover up to protect him and he is responsible for making sure that he guards himself.  But why should he have to struggle alone?  Why can't we come alongside our men and help them guard their hearts and eyes?  

If I had a friend who I know her husband had struggled with pornagraphy in the past, I would make sure to not wear a lower cut shirt while we were with him.  It would be to help him and also out of respect for her.  We don't know everyone's story and so shouldn't we see all men as someone's SO?

WasNotWas

no.

WasNotWas

@buggybear87 my personal issues should have no bearing on your daily decision making. If you know that I'm an alcoholic and I've shared that information with you and asked for your support and I go to your house and you serve me a drink, you are an asshole. Same thing for someone with a "porn addiction" or "lust issue", if you know of his situation and are privy to his struggle, it is the right thing to do to not flash him...but to go around assuming everyone is one look at my sexy shoulder away from leaving their wife is ridiculous.

 

WasNotWas

...I'm really mad I am at work right now because there has to be a struggle with pornography gif out there

itsStackie

I'm late to this. But one of my issues here is that she zooms in looking for imperfections on pictures. Really? If you see cellulite in my bikini picture, does it make it better?

GraceInCA

If I ever reached a point in my marriage where I felt like I had to guard my husband's eyes or heart, I'd have to get a divorce. I don't care if he looks, and I know where his heart is (it has been with me for 20 years now).  If the only thing that lies between a loyal husband and a philanderer is a bikini body, then trust me, you don't want to be married to that guy.

Without sounding too judgy, perhaps that's the reason why the highest divorce rates come from the Bible Belt. Instead of reveling in the love and joy people have in marriage, they treat the entire thing like it's always on shaky ground. One sight of cleavage and bam, impure thoughts. Impure thoughts and bam, 24/7 porn. 24/7 porn and bam, he's porking his co-worker. 

itsStackie

@graceinCA is that true, that the highest divorce rates come from the Bible Belt? 

GraceInCA

itsStackie said:

@graceinCA is that true, that the highest divorce rates come from the Bible Belt? 

https://contemporaryfamilies.org/impact-of-conservative-protestantism-on-regional-divorce-rates/