This is why I purposefully chose names that are easy to spell and pronounce. I still have people asking me how to spell them and when I give them the classic way I can always sense relief. Their names are Nova and Cleo, however Clio is a legitimate way to spell it, just less common which can be confusing. So even though there are legit ways for names to be spelled, I think most have a "most common" or most intuitive way and I'd rather have my kids names easier than harder. A friend on facebook just named her little girl Aeiva (Ava) and one of my daughter's best friends is named Halyn (pronounced: HOL-lynn). I'm in Idaho and the creative spellings run rampant here.
My husband and I decided a very long time ago what our son's name would be, if we were to have a boy. We would name him after hubby (first) and my grandpa (middle). But I'm struggling with how to spell the middle name.
My grandpa was Slavic. His English name was Louis (pronounced Lewis). But his name in Slavic was written Alojzy and (I'm told) was pronounced Uh-lo-jza. Like Elijah with an "uh" instead of "ee"
I've tried to find variations that are easier to read because "Alojzy" looks like "al-oh-gee-zee" to me. I've thought about trying to do it like Elijah but "Alojah" looks like "aloha" to me. Would "Alojza" read correctly? Readable alt spellings welcome. Thanks!
@mamalady60062 I wouldn’t change the spelling if you are naming him after someone. I think it kind of looses its meaning then. I think a cultural name that is spelled culturally acceptable is perfect and as a middle name, which most people won’t know or use, what it looks like or looks like it sounds like isn’t super important. I would keep the original spelling. Congratulations on your little boy!
As someone who has actually studied linguistics, this post doesn't make a lot of sense. Until the invention of the printing press, spellings were entirely up to the prefernce of the writer. In fact, many texts in Middle English and Early Modern English have the same words spelled multiple different ways. It is actually quite unfortunate that spellings were solidified right before "The Great Vowel Shift," which is part of the reason the English writing system is so un-phonetic. Language is not set in stone it is constantly evolving. Have you ever listened to Old English??? You can not understand a single thing. If you think you could, it wasn't Old English. It may have been Middle English. If words (and given names) never changed we would still be naming our chidren Gunnhilde and Aðalbriktr. I doubt you even know how to pronounce that name.
Yes, language evolution does happen in systematic and predictable ways. When considering names, for example, names given to males oftentimes become popular for females and then fall out of favor entirely for males. It never happens the other way around. But you know what? Language change is almost exclusively driven by young people and less educated people who tend to be more exploratory and creative with language use. AND -- when language change happens it is for a GOOD REASON. It is innovation that is NECESSARILY making the language more useful for its speakers. When you try to say "These are the rules!" "It has aways been this way!" not only is that not usually true, but you render the language pointless. This is what happened to Latin. NO ONE CARED about what the "elite," "educated" ruling class insisted were "the rules." The language of the people continued to evolve REGARDLESS and now we have modern day French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, and Romanian.
To just carry this point further...language "rules," of the prescriptivist, official variety are arbitrarily created by people who have the most money and guns. There is nothing inherently right about them. It is a system used to enfore social class barriers. It is funny and ironic that this is quite literally what you are trying to do and yet you are the one who sounds uneducated on this topic.
Did you know the the names Ned and Nellie came from misunderstandings of the names Ed and Ellie? People would say "mine Ed" and "mine Ellie," but as the first person possessive pronoun as subject shifted to "my" instead of "mine," (another example of language change) this was reinterpreted or "heard" as "my Ned" and "my Nellie." So are you saying the names Ned and Nellie are just illegitimate names? I mean where do you draw the line? My first name is Kelley. Both Kelly and Kelley are used as Irish surnames. Is one "wrong?" If spelling is so "official" and "determined" why are there two different historical spellings?
@shebbycat yes. That would be because I’m currently pregnant…..
edit to add, I clearly typed tldr; which translates to “too long, didn’t read”. So no. You’re completely wrong. I didn’t read it. Just thought I would inform you that your ranting to no one. 👋🏼
You’re also talking about changes to language over hundreds of years before most people could read or write, not one person’s lifetime in which their name will directly impact them and how people perceive them. It wouldn’t matter how you spelled a name if you never had to write it down except when you register with your church. Now people write their names and have them read by others constantly. I’d argue most communication today is done textually instead of verbally.
DD1: June '16 DD2: March ‘19 :::: Married since 2011 :::: USN Wife ::::
My husband and I decided a very long time ago what our son's name would be, if we were to have a boy. We would name him after hubby (first) and my grandpa (middle). But I'm struggling with how to spell the middle name.
My grandpa was Slavic. His English name was Louis (pronounced Lewis). But his name in Slavic was written Alojzy and (I'm told) was pronounced Uh-lo-jza. Like Elijah with an "uh" instead of "ee"
I've tried to find variations that are easier to read because "Alojzy" looks like "al-oh-gee-zee" to me. I've thought about trying to do it like Elijah but "Alojah" looks like "aloha" to me. Would "Alojza" read correctly? Readable alt spellings welcome. Thanks!
think keeping the native spelling works if you are naming him after someone! If you get too concerned, you could always use his English name. Alojzy is literally just the Polish version of Louis. My husband loves the name "Artyom" which is Slavic because he is culturally Slavic. The Cyrillic spelling is closer to "Artëm," but many spell it as "Artyom" when they go to an English-speaking country because many English speakers can't read/pronounce Cyrillic spellings. I can see why you would want to try a different spelling for that reason. Maybe Aloiza? (I am being told the pronounciation "Aah-loy-zay" but different Slavic countries might say it different?) English phonetics say to pronounce that "Uh-loy-zah," but it might be easier for him to correct that first phoneme than an English speaker calling him "Aloe-gee-zee." I think giving him any spelling is fine. Alojzy would be easy to pronounce for people who speak a Slavic language. I think using names that are meaningful to you is cool
i get it for names that clearly have like important origin but for names that are more modern and just chosen for fun not meaning spelling doesn’t matter. i like Noa more than Noah because it looks better, I have no idea what it means and if the different spellings have different meanings.
@paytonpedro they’re not ranting. they’re informing on why this post is wrong from a linguistics point of view. if you’re upset about that you need to grow up.
@happyhippiemamae I don’t have to do anything 🤣 and this post is YEARS old. The person who posted it isn’t on the bump along with anyone who originally commented or was involved. So it’s 100% useless to even make a comment to someone no longer around. But apparently common sense isn’t a flower that grows in everyone garden, huh? 🤣🤣🤦🏼♀️
i found their comment really helpful and interesting. the most recent comment before mine was january 15th, meaning this is an active thread, so anyone is allowed to comment. i honestly would prefer not to have your negatively, especially over someone simply choosing to comment in a way that was neither rude nor condescending but instead very insightful and educating. i hope you have a wonderful day and life :)
Trust me. As a woman named "Krystina," I can tell you that spelling does matter!
Creative spelling isn't "cute." It's annoying for the child. No one will ever get their name right, important documents will need to be corrected because of misspellings, and comments will always be made like "Well, that's special!."
Do your kid a favor and spell the name you choose correctly.
I'm a Krystan and I hate it. It's the worst. That being said our daughter's middle name is Elanor instead of Eleanor. We didn't change the spelling. It's a flower from my husband's favorite books. People kept thinking we were trying to be unique and I had to explain...nope. It's a literary tribute to an absolute classic.
I came on here to see a few fun baby name suggestions and share what we’re doing…didn’t realize there was a civil war happening on how names are spelled haha. Let’s make this a fun discussion!
I wanted to share that if we have a girl we’re doing Eleanor Paige and if it’s a boy we’re doing Owen Watson (Watson’s my MIL’s maiden name and my husbands middle name so we want to keep their name in the family, but I also like that both are very British names! I’m not British at all lol)
Unpopular opinion, but the original post here reads as kind of racist and classist. 🤷🏻♀️ I mean I cringe at weird spellings of common names too, I admit, but I feel like saying that ppl choosing to do so come off as uneducated bc names are "supposed" to be spelled a certain way feels closed minded. People have all kinds of reasons to want to spell their children's names differently. I get this is an old thread so not really speaking to OP anymore, but just wanted to throw in my two cents in case any parent thinking of naming their kid something more unique is feeling badly about themselves bc of this thread. Yes, do consider how you might be making your child's life a bit more difficult if their common name is spelled more uniquely, but also, if it feels special and important to you for whatever reason, I'd say def disregard this original post. Like one poster said up above - language evolves. Names do too. You do you.
@narwhal33 I totally agree, and I hope that this kind of post wouldn’t still be a thing if it wasn’t left over from 2014 before this important discussion on gatekeeping in vernacular was more proliferated. The reasons that people choose unique spellings can be deeply personal, and I really hope this type of lecturing that has nothing to do with actual linguistic study and everything to do with maintaining colonizing systematization isn’t an indication of the types of posts that make up this forum. 😅 This wasn’t a great first one to click on, wow 🤣👏🏽
It is very much still a thing. Ask any teacher who's been in the profession for more than two years. I understand that it "feels special" but not all countries even allow you to spell names however you wish for this exact reason. You will cause your child emotional and possibly professional hardship if you go spelling in ways where anyone who reads the name will have to guess for dear life. It's also nice when people have some idea of how to spell your name, emotionally and mentally. I've had friends, highly qualified, not get hired because their names were too difficult to spell compared to other applicants. It's not about "colonizing systematization," it's about being reasonable human beings who coexist and to make that not-impossibly-difficult.
My mother gave me two first names and I refused to be called by either when I was around 7. Teachers would always ask “Do you go by (Name A) or (Name Z)?” To which I would reply “I use my middle name (MN)” and they would say “Well, I’m just gonna call you (Name A)” and then proceed to call me by a shortened version of that name. So, yes, people will give you a nn you don’t consent to. And they don’t care if you or your child hate it.
Also, if you give your child a “unique” name, don’t be surprised if they hate it and want to change it later.
I think there's a difference between unique names and just way out there spellings. To me, a name should pass the Kindergarten Test and the Job Interview Test - can most teachers remember the name after it is said or read once, and would you hire an adult with that name. Personally, there are plenty of names I would need to be told once how to pronounce first. After all, the world is full of many cultures and languages. I don't think it being a name that is easy to spell in every region is a proper measure of naming for that reason. However, the kid should be able to spell it and that's the Kindergarten Test. I went to school with a kid who had a long Arabic name, but it made perfect sense phonetically and wasn't that hard to spell. There was only one way you could conceivably spell it. I knew how to spell his name myself by our second year of school. Compare that to a name like Ahlexzhandrey and the poor kid is going to struggle way more than "Alexander." Then comes the Job Interview test. I would not hire someone named, "Baby Johnson" no matter what their resume looked like. If I can't read the name, they would also be out. (Sorry, Dafydd.) There are a zillion names that are very cultural and still can be pronounced or have the pronounciation looked up, such as DeShawn or Aakifah. I would have no issue with hiring them. And no, I disagree that this opinion is racist. One of the most popular Irish names for the past 25 years is "Caoimhe" which is pronounced "Key-vah." It still passes my interview test because I can look up how to pronounce it 🤷♀️ (I still wouldn't name my kid that, though 😅 Imagine Starbucks)
My mother decided to replace all "I"s and "E"s in my name with "y"s and "a"s. Her reason? She didn't like the way it looked and doesn't like those letters. So because she's a weirdo I get to spend my whole life correcting people on how to pronounce my name. Literally every teacher I've ever had. It's not even that complicated but the Y throws people. My girls were given classic middle names just in case they don't like their given names.
that’s incredible boring and i feel bad for you :/ i’m gonna go ahead and do what’s fun, which has NOTHING to do with my education. first time on this forum and i’m already being told i look stupid. no thanks :)))
Name them whatever you want. My sister legally changed her name when she was 18 so she could stop having an absurdly spelled name. I was too lazy to do this so I just deal with the stupidly spelled name. My daughters have more unique names but are spelled historically accurate. I have plenty of friends that threw X or Z into their kids names. You do you but it's possible they will legally change it so as long as you're cool with that then name them whatever you want.
This thread started with a fairly well informed but arrogant essay and has apparently devolved into attacking anyone who has a name spelling they think is "wrong". You certainly won't find me "throwing in XYZ" just to make a name different or trendy, but the privilege and arrogant entitlement on display when people say names from (insert year here) a century or so ago aren't real, valid, or spelled correctly is staggering. Imagine you were someone from that year who named your child after a beloved ancestor you wanted to honor, but noone in your time spelled the name the way they did 200 years ago. Bet you would have considered changing the spelling and "inventing" a name too.
Edit: I've just noticed that this thread has been running since 2014, which explains some of the initial casual racism, but these same opinions are still in some of the recent posts.
If I can't read the name, they would also be out. (Sorry, Dafydd.) There are a zillion names that are very cultural and still can be pronounced or have the pronounciation looked up, such as DeShawn or Aakifah. I would have no issue with hiring them. And no, I disagree that this opinion is racist. One of the most popular Irish names for the past 25 years is "Caoimhe" which is pronounced "Key-vah." It still passes my interview test because I can look up how to pronounce it 🤷♀️ (I still wouldn't name my kid that, though 😅 Imagine Starbucks)
1. If you're saying "I don't think this is racist" there's a decent chance it is. 2. Really? You hypocritically are passing the Irish Caoimhe but not the Welsh Dafydd? Can you explain how to justify that?
I wasn't trying to be racist and didn't realize Dafydd was a name with roots. I'm sorry and would edit my original post if I could. Tbh, I actually would still hire that person. I Googled "weirdly spelled names" and didn't do my proper research, so that's my bad. However, tell me how it's racist? I was saying I would NOT discriminate against any name that I can look up and find a meaning for, no matter what culture it came from. There was a post somewhere in here that said all the hard to understand names are race based, and I was disagreeing with that. My grandma is from the middle east, and I saw some really stupid stuff happen based on her name and skin color post-9/11. Yes, I messed up by not researching if Dafydd was a cultural name. It's not actually that hard to spell or say. I just couldn't think of an example of a name that I actually wouldn't hire because most names are not that hard to figure out and I'm not actually that discriminatory. I was honestly trying to speak from the perspective of recruiters I have worked with. I held a position once where I had to interview people, and I just wanted to hire everyone. 😁😆
Re: ***Why name spelling matters***
My baby girl Lia.
Removed for TOU violation
My husband and I decided a very long time ago what our son's name would be, if we were to have a boy. We would name him after hubby (first) and my grandpa (middle). But I'm struggling with how to spell the middle name.
My grandpa was Slavic. His English name was Louis (pronounced Lewis). But his name in Slavic was written Alojzy and (I'm told) was pronounced Uh-lo-jza. Like Elijah with an "uh" instead of "ee"
I've tried to find variations that are easier to read because "Alojzy" looks like "al-oh-gee-zee" to me. I've thought about trying to do it like Elijah but "Alojah" looks like "aloha" to me. Would "Alojza" read correctly? Readable alt spellings welcome. Thanks!
As someone who has actually studied linguistics, this post doesn't make a lot of sense. Until the invention of the printing press, spellings were entirely up to the prefernce of the writer. In fact, many texts in Middle English and Early Modern English have the same words spelled multiple different ways. It is actually quite unfortunate that spellings were solidified right before "The Great Vowel Shift," which is part of the reason the English writing system is so un-phonetic. Language is not set in stone it is constantly evolving. Have you ever listened to Old English??? You can not understand a single thing. If you think you could, it wasn't Old English. It may have been Middle English. If words (and given names) never changed we would still be naming our chidren Gunnhilde and Aðalbriktr. I doubt you even know how to pronounce that name.
Yes, language evolution does happen in systematic and predictable ways. When considering names, for example, names given to males oftentimes become popular for females and then fall out of favor entirely for males. It never happens the other way around. But you know what? Language change is almost exclusively driven by young people and less educated people who tend to be more exploratory and creative with language use. AND -- when language change happens it is for a GOOD REASON. It is innovation that is NECESSARILY making the language more useful for its speakers. When you try to say "These are the rules!" "It has aways been this way!" not only is that not usually true, but you render the language pointless. This is what happened to Latin. NO ONE CARED about what the "elite," "educated" ruling class insisted were "the rules." The language of the people continued to evolve REGARDLESS and now we have modern day French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, and Romanian.
To just carry this point further...language "rules," of the prescriptivist, official variety are arbitrarily created by people who have the most money and guns. There is nothing inherently right about them. It is a system used to enfore social class barriers. It is funny and ironic that this is quite literally what you are trying to do and yet you are the one who sounds uneducated on this topic.
Did you know the the names Ned and Nellie came from misunderstandings of the names Ed and Ellie? People would say "mine Ed" and "mine Ellie," but as the first person possessive pronoun as subject shifted to "my" instead of "mine," (another example of language change) this was reinterpreted or "heard" as "my Ned" and "my Nellie." So are you saying the names Ned and Nellie are just illegitimate names? I mean where do you draw the line? My first name is Kelley. Both Kelly and Kelley are used as Irish surnames. Is one "wrong?" If spelling is so "official" and "determined" why are there two different historical spellings?
edit to add, I clearly typed tldr; which translates to “too long, didn’t read”. So no. You’re completely wrong. I didn’t read it. Just thought I would inform you that your ranting to no one. 👋🏼
That being said our daughter's middle name is Elanor instead of Eleanor. We didn't change the spelling. It's a flower from my husband's favorite books. People kept thinking we were trying to be unique and I had to explain...nope. It's a literary tribute to an absolute classic.
I wanted to share that if we have a girl we’re doing Eleanor Paige and if it’s a boy we’re doing Owen Watson (Watson’s my MIL’s maiden name and my husbands middle name so we want to keep their name in the family, but I also like that both are very British names! I’m not British at all lol)
I've had friends, highly qualified, not get hired because their names were too difficult to spell compared to other applicants. It's not about "colonizing systematization," it's about being reasonable human beings who coexist and to make that not-impossibly-difficult.
Teachers would always ask “Do you go by (Name A) or (Name Z)?” To which I would reply “I use my middle name (MN)” and they would say “Well, I’m just gonna call you (Name A)” and then proceed to call me by a shortened version of that name.
So, yes, people will give you a nn you don’t consent to. And they don’t care if you or your child hate it.
My daughters have more unique names but are spelled historically accurate. I have plenty of friends that threw X or Z into their kids names. You do you but it's possible they will legally change it so as long as you're cool with that then name them whatever you want.
Edit: I've just noticed that this thread has been running since 2014, which explains some of the initial casual racism, but these same opinions are still in some of the recent posts.
2. Really? You hypocritically are passing the Irish Caoimhe but not the Welsh Dafydd? Can you explain how to justify that?