Can we discuss Red Shirting?

JCM

DD will be 5 at the end of May & is in 3 day pre-school full days.  I am really surprised at the amount of her peers that parent's will be holding back and not sending to kinder next year. I'm talking about 50% of the 15 kids in her class.  I've also run into the random parent that asks how old DD is and if she will be attending K next year.  I think the only way I would hold DD back is if she were a disruption to the Kinder learning environment.  We live in the DFW area & I guess it's more common here than other parts of the country.  Where are you located & is red shirting common in your area?

Andrewsgal

We live in DFW and DD has had two kids in her kinder and two kids in her first grade class I would estimate about 8 out of 80 in her grade so about 10%.

eaglesfan700

It is discussed a lot here, in that I hear many moms with summer birthday kids talking about doing it. But it doesn't seem like many actually do it. DD is a July birthday but I have no doubt she will do just fine in K at 5

Mrs.Hizzo

It's pretty common here. My DS started kindergarten this year at age 6.

JCM

I know this comes up quite often but just find it hard to believe that so many people are doing it.  DD's preschool has 2 transition K class (a class for kids that could be in K but aren't).  They are adding a 3rd next year.  That means that there will be about 50 kids in those classes that could/should be in K.  I have a friend that made up her mind about her DS not being ready for K when he was 3.  To me that's CRAZY!

lexusolsen

I think it depends on the kid. Even in high school I can see the effects of sending a kid to school before s/he is mature enough. I have at least one kid in each of my classes who is really immature and it shows. They are all male and all really young (birthdays in the fall or winter). Their behavior is appropriate for their age but not their grade level. Why would you want that for your kid?

JCM

@lexusolsen What is the cut off date for K in your area?  Our cut off is 5 by Sept. 1st.  I can see this being more of an issue where the cut off is December.  So half of the K class would be 4 when starting.  

lexusolsen

I'm in CA and I think it used to be Dec. 1. They are moving it up a month every year until next year when it will be Sept 1.

barnwife

DH and I were just talking about this. J. would be one of the youngest in his class. At this point, I'd say he would be ready academically, but far behind in all other areas. (As he's only 3.5, obviously a lot could change.) And that isn't something I'd want for him.

Why? Because I've been there. It sucks. Big time. While I enjoyed the academic side of school, all other aspects were really hard for me. And my parents didn't understand that, especially because my older siblings were among the oldest for their classes. So I don't think it occurred to them that if I was academically ready, other reasons might be good enough to wait. 

I wouldn't say redshirting is common here. 

JCM

Yes, I can see with a cut off that late immaturity being an issue.  Kids change so much month by month.  

jnksmom

I am in TN and it is not very common. DS had 1 child in his class last year that was redshirted and DD doesn't have any in her K class this year. We considered it for DD because her birthday was 4 days before the cut-off but decided against it and she has done great.

Arnegard

In ND I would say it is only common  with boys who have summer birthdays.  Most people who have spring birthdays send their child.  I plan to send DD3 as a 5 year old and she has a May birthday as well.

juliane2004

I am the opposite of red-shirting. I personally feel that it's better to be younger, and be challenged.

Our schools have a kindergarten cut off of March 1.

DD1 will be 4 when she starts. (5 in October)
DS1 will be 4 when he starts. (5 in December)
DD2 will be 5 when she starts. (5 in August)
DS2 will be 4 when he starts. (5 in October)

penguingrrl

It's very common in my district in NJ. Our cut off is Oct 1 and my oldest is August 30. I sent her on time and people were aghast that I didn't hold her back. Many kids in her grade are 15+ months older than her.

In NYC the cut off is Dec 31 (so you would start K at 4.5) and there's a zero tolerance policy for red shirting. K is not mandatory so if you enroll a child in K whose birthday puts them in 1st they are put into 1st grade having simply not attended K.

I personally would love to see the entire country adopt a common cut off date that's preferably on the early end of the spectrum (possibly August 1 so all children are 5 the first day of K) and a zero tolerance policy for redshirting. Often it's an issue where all the kids entering are on the older side, so then those who are entering based on birthday and are at the right maturity for their age seem "young" and "behind" because their peers are considerably older (although despite being the youngest by over 6 months last year Julia did not have that issue). There will always be people close to the cut off either way, but unless it's a classroom designed to be a mixed age room (which I'm a fan of, but isn't how the standard classroom is designed to operate) it does all of them a disservice to have an 18 month age spread in the room.

caybeh

Ditto Arnegard. I only hear of it for summer birthdays. DS is Mar and will be 5 when he goes. The new baby will have an Aug birthday, so we'll have to see when the time comes. DH also has an Aug birthday and his parents held him back so he started at 6. School was easy for him, so he is glad his parents waited. I have a Nov birthday, but when I started K in started in Jan, so I was 6.

penguingrrl

letranger said:

My kid is a jan birthday so he is automatically "red shirted" he won't go to school until he is 5.9 months. That said J is April. She'll go regularly. The only time I think a kid should have been red shirted was my nephew. He was born three days after cut off my Sil/BIL fought to send him and he's had a ton of maturity problems.

He's not red shirted in the slightest. He'll be entering exactly on time! 

notkateanymore

AL and yes, very much so.

cactus5

We live in the same area and it is like you said very common. My son's teacher said he is ready, but apparently about half the parents at conferences were told their kid's were on the fence and were asked to consider sending them to the transition class. My son has at least 4 of his good friends doing this and their birthdays range from December-May.

My son has an early Spring birthday and I did have one of the teachers (not his classroom teacher) at his school inform me of the red shirting trend and that because he is very athletic and a 'later' birthday that I should consider it for the athletic prospect. She said that there were a lot of sixth graders held back in the district last year for this reason. I think I looked at her as if she had 5 heads. He is doing private school anyways, so that negated that suggestion.

sunnydays99

Our cutoff is Dec 31. DS has a November bday. We'll be holding him back as per the preschool teachers (and other teacher friends) recommendations. This way he will be 5 years, 9 months when he starts K. This has honestly been the hardest decision I've had to make!!

fancefpp

We are definitely considering it because he was born in mid August, cut off is sept 1. I have no problems with it.

bhuffman

It is extremely common here. Our district made the local news for red shirting. Unfortunately, the rep is true that parents hold kids back here for sports rather than academics.
I think it is fine if you think your child is immature and could benefit from an extra year of preschool. However , to hold them back so they will be a bigger kid or more coordinated than their peers is ridiculous.

id012

I would say its more common for boys and the major reason is for sports. So there bigger faster and stronger.

I dont think I will red shirt ds, who has a march birthday. Our cut off here is 12-31. So he will be on the older side. But I cant say that I havent been approached by family and friends that we should hold him back a year for sports reasons. (Hes only 2). Hes got a lot of pressure on him to play sports. I joke that he will probably want to be a ballerina.

My birthday is Dec 29. I wish my parents held me back. And by 3rd grade that wish they did too. I could see the good with the bad.

id012

Yeah I cant say I agree with it but if u think about it. You could be a senior at 19 playing football with other seniors who are 17/18. Or younger

smerka

I'm very in tune to all of this. My older son has a Sept 22 birthday. His younger brother was born around 11 months later on Sept 1, which is the cutoff date. So technically they are in the same graduating class. I just talked to the preschool principal and he confirmed that if my younger son doesn't go to kindergarten with his brother, he can not go to the school district's preschool. So they are either in the same graduating class or we have to find a different preschool. We will make the decision based on whether or not our younger son is ready and will let the preschool teachers' opinion guide us.

chardonnay24

I didn't think it was that common here (Portland) but my nephew is in kindergarten with mostly 6 year olds, turning 7 this year. I might hold my kid back, but he has a speech delays and social delays. We're already having behavior problems in pre-preschool, so I imagine that if it continues to be a problem, we'll probably give him an extra year.

In general, I don't understand the point unless a child really needs that extra year, which I don't think most do.

JeffandLeslie

A kid I went to school with was red shirted. He should have been in my grade age wise but was a grade lower because his parents wanted him to have an edge in sports. They owned a local sporting goods store and were open about the reason for red shirting. The kicker was the kid turned out to be totally terrible at sports...

smerka

NandaB said:

I'm very in tune to all of this. My older son has a Sept 22 birthday. His younger brother was born around 11 months later on Sept 1, which is the cutoff date. So technically they are in the same graduating class. I just talked to the preschool principal and he confirmed that if my younger son doesn't go to kindergarten with his brother, he can not go to the school district's preschool. So they are either in the same graduating class or we have to find a different preschool. We will make the decision based on whether or not our younger son is ready and will let the preschool teachers' opinion guide us.

So they would be in the same grade and possibly the same class?? That sounds unfair to both of them. With the comparisons that will inevitable be made, they questions from peers. This seems like a bad idea.

They would not be in the same classroom until it's something that only has one section like in high school. It has always felt wrong to put them in the same grade to me but my husband has been okay with the idea. Our older one has some developmental delays which complicates the situation. He will do his third year of preschool next year and the younger will do his second. After that we will seek the advice of the school.

bumpuser8448316

As far as I know it is not common here in Southern CA. DS will be 5 when he starts in August and will turn 6 halfway through the year in January. DD will be 5 in July and will start in August with a cutoff date of September 1st. She'll be one of the youngest in her class but I doubt I'll hold her back a year.

Spin313

I am against red shirting unless there is a truly significant physical, mental, or emotional delay. SOMEONE is always going to be oldest and youngest.

However I do agree that there should be a consistent cut off (maybe August 31st) across the country.

trizzie

My son is in private kinder this year and will go to first grade next year in public school. He is one of the only kids in his class not repeating next year.  Out of 15 kids, at least half our repeating.  And we are also in DFW.

penguingrrl

I Heart The 80s said:

CabbageCabbage said:

I just learned that my district doesn't allow it at all. Cut-off is August 31st and no matter what, you go by your age. I know a severely special needs child whose mom tried to hold him back and wasn't able.  

Forgive me if I'm being dense…but how does this work? For example, the local school doesn't know my child is 5. They didn't come knocking to see why she wasn't in K. I enrolled her when I saw fit, and yes…we held. We held for the reasons in my above post (OT/Speech, maturity, struggling in general). How can a district say it's not allowed? Is there a school police coming to the home? I promise I'm not being a bitch here. Just curious.

I know that in NYC mandatory school attendance starts at 6 or 7. So they won't know that your 5 year old is not enrolled in K. But K is not required. If you register a child for K and their birthday puts them in 1st grade they're enrolled in 1st grade having not gone to K at all.

I'm not sure if there is a process for children with special needs to be held back, but I believe instead they are given the necessary services in school and kept with the grade their birthday puts them in unless they must be held back to do K or 1st for a second year.

Angela814

I'm in Wisconsin. From what I've seen, red shirting is done on a case by case basis. It doesn't seem too common and is done more for boys with late summer birthdays. Our school cut off is September 1st.

DD1 went to school on time with a late May birthday. DD2 will start 4K next fall and won't turn 4 until July.

alli2672

DS1 has a summer birthday and will start K when he is 6. 
If he could start now at 5.5, I would send him, but he wasn't ready when he just turned 5.  I live in a small town in Ohio, and it is fairly common here. 

alli2672

penguingrrl said:

I Heart The 80s said:

CabbageCabbage said:

I just learned that my district doesn't allow it at all. Cut-off is August 31st and no matter what, you go by your age. I know a severely special needs child whose mom tried to hold him back and wasn't able.  

Forgive me if I'm being dense…but how does this work? For example, the local school doesn't know my child is 5. They didn't come knocking to see why she wasn't in K. I enrolled her when I saw fit, and yes…we held. We held for the reasons in my above post (OT/Speech, maturity, struggling in general). How can a district say it's not allowed? Is there a school police coming to the home? I promise I'm not being a bitch here. Just curious.

I know that in NYC mandatory school attendance starts at 6 or 7. So they won't know that your 5 year old is not enrolled in K. But K is not required. If you register a child for K and their birthday puts them in 1st grade they're enrolled in 1st grade having not gone to K at all.

wow.  So, how is that working out? 

penguingrrl

alli2672 said:

penguingrrl said:

I Heart The 80s said:

CabbageCabbage said:

I just learned that my district doesn't allow it at all. Cut-off is August 31st and no matter what, you go by your age. I know a severely special needs child whose mom tried to hold him back and wasn't able.  

Forgive me if I'm being dense…but how does this work? For example, the local school doesn't know my child is 5. They didn't come knocking to see why she wasn't in K. I enrolled her when I saw fit, and yes…we held. We held for the reasons in my above post (OT/Speech, maturity, struggling in general). How can a district say it's not allowed? Is there a school police coming to the home? I promise I'm not being a bitch here. Just curious.

I know that in NYC mandatory school attendance starts at 6 or 7. So they won't know that your 5 year old is not enrolled in K. But K is not required. If you register a child for K and their birthday puts them in 1st grade they're enrolled in 1st grade having not gone to K at all.

wow.  So, how is that working out? 

From what I understand it has always been this way. I no longer live there and never had kids in the NYC public school system so I don't know a ton. I know that within the system there are some absolutely phenomenal schools (3 of the best HSs in the country are NYC Public Schools) and some really failing ones. All follow the same date cut offs and some of the schools do amazingly so that must not be what is hurting the schools that aren't doing well.

kcisthebombdotcom

I'm for redshirting especially in cases where a kid is a older 4/just turned five. I think people forget kindie is more than just academics--its social and emotional maturity. i started kindie at four. i always did well academically but the maturity thing was a struggle. i was probably the only kid with a straight a report card that got bad reports for behavior. lol. it wasn't just the early school years--i had sex as a 15 year old hs junior and started college at 17. I really think i would have fared better if i had an extra year to mature.

fancefpp

The city of Boston has the same policy as NYC. I imagine it's needed to make sure enough spots are available each year and there is also a lottery system that complicates it. I can see parents holding a kid back if they didn't get the school they wanted.

brachysira

I read an article about this and I'm reasonably sure that kids who were redshirted did worse than kids who weren't--they were too old and the material was not appropriate for them.  Kids who did better when they were redshirted turned out later to be found that they disabilities that had not be discovered at the time and instead of being redshirted, would been better off getting involved with school at the right time and then would have benefited from services directly addressing their issues.

trizzie

Hav=Fath said:

My son is in private kinder this year and will go to first grade next year in public school. He is one of the only kids in his class not repeating next year.  Out of 15 kids, at least half our repeating.  And we are also in DFW.

But why? Why are they holding them back? Is the school not preparing them, are the parents just realizing their kids aren't ready emotionally, or that was the plan all along ~ to do 2 years in K?

That was their plan all along. They don't want them to graduate at 17 (most are summer birthdays) and they feel like they need one more year to mature (they are all boys). 6 of them are going to the same public school next year and DS is the only one moving to 1st. They are all very prepared academically. And honestly, I feel like some of those kids will be bored. DS would look at me like I was nuts if I told him he was doing kinder again.

notkateanymore

id012 said:

I would say its more common for boys and the major reason is for sports. So there bigger faster and stronger. I dont think I will red shirt ds, who has a march birthday. Our cut off here is 12-31. So he will be on the older side. But I cant say that I havent been approached by family and friends that we should hold him back a year for sports reasons. (Hes only 2). Hes got a lot of pressure on him to play sports. I joke that he will probably want to be a ballerina. My birthday is Dec 29. I wish my parents held me back. And by 3rd grade that wish they did too. I could see the good with the bad.

I have never heard anyone around here mention sports as a reason. Never. 

It happens, not super common but not unheard of. Usually summer birthdays, kids who maybe ready academically but not socially or emotionally. DD1 will be older in her class - turning 6 2 weeks after school starts. DD2's bday is 2 days before the cut off. We aren't making an decisions yet. She has 2.5 years to go. 

Sports is a major reason here, though most people hide the fact that it is.

notkateanymore

DD has a friend who turned 11 last week, she doesn't turn 10 until June. Same grade. The girl is DD's size though so I assume it was done because of size and maturity (she's not overly mature, so I'm guessing she was behind her peers when it came time to enroll). Most of the kids in DD's class have been 10 since the start of school. They have very few Spring and Summer birthdays. She is one of the latest with June 24th. I wish we had held her.