I don't think I'm going to make it....

Littlejen22

Sunday924 said:

hopanka said:

Sunday924 said:

JNL$LSM said:

One question would you do this or say all of this if he was your bio child.

I can't say for sure because my oldest bio is 6 but most likely yes. You all don't know how I am IRL. You all only know what I am VENTING here. My MIL and mom told me on two different occasions that SS told her that he knew I was the only one in his life to truly give a crap about him. It's not true as his dad cares a great deal about him but when it comes to punishment and things of the sort I'm the voice of reason. I don't want this for him. I don't want him to have to go to school in old clothes. I bought the kid nice clothes to go to school in. Do you think I just like all that money I spent sitting on the floor in my room? Do you think I want him getting crap for wearing old clothes? I want him to behave and I'm taking advice from the officer that has been to my house multiple times just this month.

So, if you say I'm wrong on the whole weak authority thing...what do you mean by "when it comes to punishments I'm the voice of reason." What does your H do that is not reasonable? Does his kid walk all over him, or is he the other opposite...does he just go off and punishes to excess? What is your H doing that his kid feels like he can destroy his father's house?






I don't want you to think my H is a monster and saying something this simple shouldn't make you think that but with this board who knows.....I would say he tends to punish in excess. He has tried to lighten up and take a different approach but I'm not sure how that is working out....obviously. The police also said SS needs an ass whipping but my H hasn't spanked SS in years.

Where do you live that you were given that advice. That could solve your problem and have your SS put into foster care for beating him though.

Sunday924

Texas. SS would not go to foster care if my H decided to spank him. It is 100% within his rights and the cops or CPS can't do anything. Now like I said H hasn't spanked him in hears and I'm sure he won't be starting now. Spanking is a whole other post that I don not want to get into. I thought you were leaving this post anyway?

emme022

Sunday924 said:

hopanka said:

Sunday924 said:

JNL$LSM said:

One question would you do this or say all of this if he was your bio child.

I can't say for sure because my oldest bio is 6 but most likely yes. You all don't know how I am IRL. You all only know what I am VENTING here. My MIL and mom told me on two different occasions that SS told her that he knew I was the only one in his life to truly give a crap about him. It's not true as his dad cares a great deal about him but when it comes to punishment and things of the sort I'm the voice of reason. I don't want this for him. I don't want him to have to go to school in old clothes. I bought the kid nice clothes to go to school in. Do you think I just like all that money I spent sitting on the floor in my room? Do you think I want him getting crap for wearing old clothes? I want him to behave and I'm taking advice from the officer that has been to my house multiple times just this month.

So, if you say I'm wrong on the whole weak authority thing...what do you mean by "when it comes to punishments I'm the voice of reason." What does your H do that is not reasonable? Does his kid walk all over him, or is he the other opposite...does he just go off and punishes to excess? What is your H doing that his kid feels like he can destroy his father's house?

I don't want you to think my H is a monster and saying something this simple shouldn't make you think that but with this board who knows.....I would say he tends to punish in excess. He has tried to lighten up and take a different approach but I'm not sure how that is working out....obviously. The police also said SS needs an ass whipping but my H hasn't spanked SS in years.

Bolded because it is a long quote chain but I do not know how to make it shorter.  I could be wrong because I do not have a ton of experience dealing with the police but I can't imagine a police officer telling a parent their kid "needs an ass whipping".  Encouraging a parent to use violence to discipline their kids kind of seems to go against what the police are supposed to do...and could probably come back to bite them in the ass.  

Sunday924

emcmac87 said:

Sunday924 said:

hopanka said:

Sunday924 said:

JNL$LSM said:

One question would you do this or say all of this if he was your bio child.

I can't say for sure because my oldest bio is 6 but most likely yes. You all don't know how I am IRL. You all only know what I am VENTING here. My MIL and mom told me on two different occasions that SS told her that he knew I was the only one in his life to truly give a crap about him. It's not true as his dad cares a great deal about him but when it comes to punishment and things of the sort I'm the voice of reason. I don't want this for him. I don't want him to have to go to school in old clothes. I bought the kid nice clothes to go to school in. Do you think I just like all that money I spent sitting on the floor in my room? Do you think I want him getting crap for wearing old clothes? I want him to behave and I'm taking advice from the officer that has been to my house multiple times just this month.

So, if you say I'm wrong on the whole weak authority thing...what do you mean by "when it comes to punishments I'm the voice of reason." What does your H do that is not reasonable? Does his kid walk all over him, or is he the other opposite...does he just go off and punishes to excess? What is your H doing that his kid feels like he can destroy his father's house?

I don't want you to think my H is a monster and saying something this simple shouldn't make you think that but with this board who knows.....I would say he tends to punish in excess. He has tried to lighten up and take a different approach but I'm not sure how that is working out....obviously. The police also said SS needs an ass whipping but my H hasn't spanked SS in years.

Bolded because it is a long quote chain but I do not know how to make it shorter.  I could be wrong because I do not have a ton of experience dealing with the police but I can't imagine a police officer telling a parent their kid "needs an ass whipping".  Encouraging a parent to use violence to discipline their kids kind of seems to go against what the police are supposed to do...and could probably come back to bite them in the ass.  

This is actually the second police officer that has said this. SS "ran away" in 5 th grade and we were told that then too. Welcome to Texas.

ambrvan

The "ass whipping" thing isn't just in Texas. A Judge here told someone that not long ago and they were publicly applauded. In some cases I agree. But in some cases it doesn't work.

fellesferie

Police officers are not child development professionals or parenting experts. 

Just for background, I am a pretty strict parent. DS does not get away with 1/10th of the stuff his friends do. But I think you guys are punishing both excessively and ineffectively. If you're having to rein in YH, and this is where you ended up, I think you really need some family therapy.

A therapist can talk to you about natural and logical consequences and why they work much better than taking away items and/or privileges. We sought out therapy so that we could be better parents. It has helped a lot. Some things we were already doing, but not everything. 

We give DS an allowance every week in part so that he can pay for stuff he breaks. Over the summer he thought it would be cute to cut/rip holes in the shower curtain. We made him replace it with his own money. It's only been 5 months or so, but he has not done anything like that again. 

If you cannot dig deep and find some compassion for this child, I think you need some kind of break/separation. 

Lavender P

I was trying to stay out of this but there is something I hve to say. I don't think it is fair to ask a SP if you would do/treat your own bio kid the same way. It is an unfair question because the situations are always so different it is hard to say what you would do.

However, in this case I think it applies.
Someone asked above and the response was 'well my bio kid is 6 so I don't really know but most likely I would." I thought about this a lot, and I think that response is b.s. There is nothing in this world that would make me want my kid to be arrested or taken away because of their behavior. Nothing. I would go to the ends of the earth to find help or a solution. However, it seems like OP's solution is to have him carted off and make it someone else's problem.

You are viewing your SS as an optional member of the family because he isn't yours. You don't want to do the hard work of figuring out what is going on wih him mentally, you just want the problem to go away. You have already decided he is too much like his other loser relatives and there is no hope for him, so why try.

My SS's BM is lazy and has never had a real job in her life. She barely passed high school because she has no drive or motivation. Just because SS seems to be lazy and doesn't care about school, that doesn't mean I just let it go and give up in him.

You have already judged this poor kid and decided he isn't worth it. You don't think that attitude is apparent to him? It is probably contributing to him lashing out. His mom is a drug addict and his SM sees him as a problem that she wants removed. If that isn't a recipe for anger issues I don't know what is.

Littlejen22

Spanking does not equal ass whipping. I am anti-spanking because it teaches violence and picking on the smaller weaker but ass whooping is beating which is a whole different thing. I am glad you see that would not be a good idea.

Sunday924

If I just wanted him carted off to be someone else's problem I would let him go with his mother. So I'm not really sure how you can make that statement. Why don't I let him go with her? Because he won't have a fighting chance in hell to change his ways. And call me cold hearted but there are some things that if my bio child did I would 100% wanted them to be arrested. For you to say there is NOTHING is a pretty strong statement. Wrong is wrong igdaf who you are. Jen I do agree those can be seen as two different things but the cop told DH in front of SS he could use a paddle or even leather with holes in it that soaks in water. He wasn't telling DH to do that but telling SS it could be much worse. Again we would NEVER do that I'm just putting out what the cop said.

Nineoceans

CurlyQ284 said:

My DH had everything taken for bad grades. He slept on a bare mattress as a teenager. They even took away his pillow. He then had nothing to lose so he didn't care.

I honestly wouldnt take parenting advice from a cop. They don't have training in child development. I would see what the therapist says and follow that.

This. I didn't read the whole thread but my heart goes out to you. Parenting kids is just hard. Try to do everything in love first.

My H and I took a parenting class and the therapist said if you do nothing else. Spend 5 minutes truly listening to your kids. Earn their respect by giving yours. Be truly interested in their opinions.

If you don't have this relationship to get through good times you won't have their respect to get you through the tough.

Time for Dh to take him fishing or otherwise get back in tune with him

CFjo2010

Lavender P said:

I was trying to stay out of this but there is something I hve to say. I don't think it is fair to ask a SP if you would do/treat your own bio kid the same way. It is an unfair question because the situations are always so different it is hard to say what you would do. However, in this case I think it applies. Someone asked above and the response was 'well my bio kid is 6 so I don't really know but most likely I would." I thought about this a lot, and I think that response is b.s. There is nothing in this world that would make me want my kid to be arrested or taken away because of their behavior. Nothing. I would go to the ends of the earth to find help or a solution. However, it seems like OP's solution is to have him carted off and make it someone else's problem. You are viewing your SS as an optional member of the family because he isn't yours. You don't want to do the hard work of figuring out what is going on wih him mentally, you just want the problem to go away. You have already decided he is too much like his other loser relatives and there is no hope for him, so why try. My SS's BM is lazy and has never had a real job in her life. She barely passed high school because she has no drive or motivation. Just because SS seems to be lazy and doesn't care about school, that doesn't mean I just let it go and give up in him. You have already judged this poor kid and decided he isn't worth it. You don't think that attitude is apparent to him? It is probably contributing to him lashing out. His mom is a drug addict and his SM sees him as a problem that she wants removed. If that isn't a recipe for anger issues I don't know what is.

I can honestly say that if DS ever brought drugs or any sort of drug paraphernalia into my home I would immediately call the police.  No questions asked, no hesitation.  I have 3 other children in my home and I will not tolerate that ever.  DS is 14 and PJ is only 9 months old.  What if (god forbid) he brought pills into my home and she accidentally got her hands on one and ate it?  I think in some situations getting police involved for a "scare them straight" lesson is needed.  

However, I don't think that's the case with OP's SS.  I really think therapy is needed, and possibly some sort of mental evaluation to see if SS is suffering from depression or some other sort of mental illness.  

Nineoceans

Lavender P said:

I was trying to stay out of this but there is something I hve to say. I don't think it is fair to ask a SP if you would do/treat your own bio kid the same way. It is an unfair question because the situations are always so different it is hard to say what you would do.

However, in this case I think it applies.
Someone asked above and the response was 'well my bio kid is 6 so I don't really know but most likely I would." I thought about this a lot, and I think that response is b.s. There is nothing in this world that would make me want my kid to be arrested or taken away because of their behavior. Nothing. I would go to the ends of the earth to find help or a solution. However, it seems like OP's solution is to have him carted off and make it someone else's problem.

You are viewing your SS as an optional member of the family because he isn't yours. You don't want to do the hard work of figuring out what is going on wih him mentally, you just want the problem to go away. You have already decided he is too much like his other loser relatives and there is no hope for him, so why try.

My SS's BM is lazy and has never had a real job in her life. She barely passed high school because she has no drive or motivation. Just because SS seems to be lazy and doesn't care about school, that doesn't mean I just let it go and give up in him.

You have already judged this poor kid and decided he isn't worth it. You don't think that attitude is apparent to him? It is probably contributing to him lashing out. His mom is a drug addict and his SM sees him as a problem that she wants removed. If that isn't a recipe for anger issues I don't know what is.

I disagree.

I've disclosed that my H is/was a recovering drug addict. There's an extremely high statistical chance that SS or DS will become addicts if they ever pick up a drug.

The second I find a drug in my house for either DS or SS that kid is going to jail. I'm not enabling or coddling. You feel real legal consequences or small juvenile issues become lifelong problems.

My Dh pretty much ruined his life by 22 bc of his parents sweeping things under the rug and "going to the ends of the earth" to prevent legal consequences. They ruined his life truly. He was so high he doesn't even remember my SS's birth. Meanwhile my in laws are hiring attorneys and throwing baby showers. You're doing your kid NO favors

That said my initial response stands love your kids, earn their respect and rely on that respect to get you through the bad times

ambrvan

I think WANTING your kid to be arrested and going through with it because it NEEDS to be done are two different things. No good parent WANTS their child to be arrested, but sometimes it HAS TO BE DONE. Just as no normal parent WANTS to punish their child, but it still needs to be done.

There was a parent around here who lost their 16yo son to drunk driving last year. They got a top that their 13yo was drinking at a friend's house with said friend and the friend's PARENTS. The mother had her son arrested and charged along with everyone else in the house at the time. I think that move may save this kid's life.

Do I think, from the information we have been given, that the OP's SS is at that point? No. I think that with the behavior she is describing, jail would do MUCH more harm than good.

Lavender P

First, I said there is nothing that my kid could do that would make me WANT my kid arrested or taken away, it doesn't mean that I would sweep things under the rug if things got so bad that some type of intervention needed to occur. The OP specifically said her SS is not on drugs but has behavioral problems.
I get that if drugs are involved it changes things as there are serious consequences, especially with other kids in the house. My SS is 10 years older then my DS. If he came over with some weed, I probably would not call the cops on him. However, if I found out he was selling drugs, we would find a way to handle it most likely with outside help.
The OP's SS is acting out and exhibiting violent behavior, which can obviously grow into actions that he could go to jail for such as assault or battery. I think it is extreme to say that you would want your kid to be put in jail or juvie because he is punching holes in the walls. If they've tried therapy and things continue to escalate to more violence and drugs, then intervention by authorities may be needed. I just don't think you jump from my kid has some issues to I want him arrested without some serious legal breaches.

P.s. I thick @ambrvan said it much more clearly in her first paragraph.

Littlejen22

Yeah there are definitely things that would make me want my child to feel the consequences of their actions. A 13yo arrested for punching or kicking a hole in the wall is not one. Honestly first time found with drugs is not one either and anyone that has been here a while knows I am super anti-drug, I have no tolerance or respect when it involved drugs and have never even smoked pot. But when SD was found with pot we did not push to have her go to jail, we had her in therapy. When it was clear that it happened again we gave strict rules about living in our home. She was 18 and chose not to agree and could not stay home. If after the first time I found them again I would have called the police. Although we never found then in our house but she had a joint in her purse at school. And DS was 18mos too.

Nineoceans

I used drugs as an example but for pretty much anything destructive I feel the same way. Drugs and premarital sex are our no zero tolerance things but If SS punches holes in his girlfriend's wall in 10 years he's going to get a domestic violence charge most of which are felonies

He needs to learn now when the consequences aren't life and death that dangerous behavior has personally painful consequences. I would do that for my bio or stepchild no questions asked. And I'm saying "do that for" because it would be horribly painful for me as and I would want to just fix things but that's not the right thing to do.

Ilumine

hopanka said:

I always wonder what type of a father is in these kids' lives. Kids that somehow have the balls to punch holes in the wall, kick doors in and otherwise damage their dad's home. I must say my brothers were high strung teens, full of testosterone hockey players, so were my cousins and my nephew, but this never happenned. I think they knew DAD would KILL them. They all had that healthy fear, perhaps respect, that would prevent this from ever happenning. Yeah, they would get pissed, but it never crossed that line. What sort of personality traits do these fathers possess that their kids feel like they can go there? To me, These dads must have a combination of weak authority, limp noodle personality and zero charisma, if these kids actually go through with it. It kinda screams dad you're a POS, I have no respect for you and look how Im gonna shit on you now.

Well actually you are partially correct. 

Yes, when you have a weak father you give the power to the child.  HOWEVER, you also have children who KNOW that if their father TOUCHES THEM in any way, they can call the police for abuse.  

Let me tell you about SS the FIRST time he attacked DH.  ALL DH DID was bear hug SS to the ground and hold him.  SS got a booboo on his elbow.  The next day SS sat in class and begged his teacher to let him see the school nurse.  THe school nurse asked SS what happened.  SS played coy - but gave up DH in less than 20 second - but did NOT tell nurse that it was because SS had attacked DH first.  Nurse KNEW that SS was trying to get DH in trouble, but by law had to call the Authorities in.  

It was ONLY because we had had SS in two years of therapy - with documentation of his behavior that got DH out of trouble.  

So the old stand by of the authoritative dad no longer applies.  

And with the continual push of the EGO CENTRIC parenting spiel (Drs Spock and Sears have ruined our kids), you have therapists who would call you abusive for taking away a kids piece of electronics.  I know that our first Military Therapist told DH that, INfuckingFRONT of SS.  

You should have SEEN the face SS had.  

ANd yes, I DO believe that my DH was and still is a weak ass father.  It took a SECOND physical attack with a call to the cops for DH to finally grow a real pair with SS. 

xmaryrickx

Nineoceans said:

I used drugs as an example but for pretty much anything destructive I feel the same way. Drugs and premarital sex are our no zero tolerance things but If SS punches holes in his girlfriend's wall in 10 years he's going to get a domestic violence charge most of which are felonies

He needs to learn now when the consequences aren't life and death that dangerous behavior has personally painful consequences. I would do that for my bio or stepchild no questions asked. And I'm saying "do that for" because it would be horribly painful for me as and I would want to just fix things but that's not the right thing to do.

So if you find out SS is having sex at 16, what will you do? Kick him out? What about at 19, assuming otherwise he is a great kid at that point, kicked out?

Karma1969

The cost here for juvenile detention is $197 per day and the average stay is 6-9 months. They expect the parents to pay. They put liens on cars, houses, paychecks and tax refunds until the amount is paid in full. Plus court costs and the aftercare fees usually for 1 year. They go after both parents but if one parent doesn't have it they expect the other patent to pay in full.

I would be an angry 13 year old living in your house too. I didn't read all the posts but how do you justify stopping therapy? What role do you play in his behavior?

Littlejen22

Interesting Karma. Luckily I did not know that.

Here are comments from a TN center
https://rutherfordcounty.org/jdetention/Facts.htm

Sunday924

Karma1969 said:

The cost here for juvenile detention is $197 per day and the average stay is 6-9 months. They expect the parents to pay. They put liens on cars, houses, paychecks and tax refunds until the amount is paid in full. Plus court costs and the aftercare fees usually for 1 year. They go after both parents but if one parent doesn't have it they expect the other patent to pay in full. I would be an angry 13 year old living in your house too. I didn't read all the posts but how do you justify stopping therapy? What role do you play in his behavior?

He was in therapy for a different issue. Things didn't get this bad until early September. Yes he has had issues but nothing this bad.