Questions/Chart Stalk June 2021

keikilove · June 2021

inthewoods23 · June 2021

For someone at this for 4 years you'd think I'd know everything... but can we have a discussion on foods that help with lining, implantation, and reducing inflammation and when/how long they should be incorporated into a diet? Or any resources you know of that you'd like to share?

With summer coming up I figured it would hurt to jump on the pineapple train. Am I correct that it (+ the core) should be eaten starting on day of O to 5dpo? Does it hurt to go longer or to start a couple days before O? What other easy foods are there to add to meals?

As far as the "bad" foods/drinks that can cause inflammation, would you say cutting it out by the time O occurs and into the TWW is good enough or should it really be through the whole cycle?

pajamstagrams · June 2021

I thought I heard grapefruit juice helps with making more EWCM?

As far as inflammation...I suppose I'll bring our gluten free chat over here lol. So I typically don't have any issues with whiskey, even though it's obviously made from gluten (but distilled to where practically no gluten should be left). I'm electing to forgo all whiskey while TTC just in case it's causing a small baseline inflammation that I don't notice. Gluten causes long term issues for me, so it's not something I can just get over in 2 weeks. But I'm ultra paranoid.

daisy0322 · June 2021

I don’t know TTC wise but aloe water is one of my favorite anti inflammatories and it helps keep you hydrated

paytonpedro · June 2021

I’ve been recommended to redirect my question from WTO here for a bigger audience, so here I am.

Anyone here deal with a luteal phase defect? I know I have it but we weren’t ttc when diagnosed so my dr just recommended bc. She did say she has it as well and used acupuncture which helped her. I guess my question is how are you managing it? And how short is really too short?

my last 4 cycles have had 7-9 day lp’s and my average for the last 8 cycles is 10 day lp’s (which has clearly been on the decrease/used to be closer to 10/11 days usually).

bows22 · June 2021

@paytonpedro I’m sure someone else who knows much more than me will chime in but I have seen varying opinions on this over my time here.
I think in general less than 10 days is where they start to want to address it? But you can still get pregnant even if it’s shorter than that. I don’t have advice as far as how to lengthen it but I do have a couple of questions.

1. How are you confirming ovulation?
2. Have you let your doc know you are TTC to see if they want to start progesterone supplementation?

paytonpedro · June 2021

@bows22 I’m using opks and tracking bbt to confirm. I haven’t yet. I kinda wanted to see wait would happen first before calling her.... Probably a bad plan?
edit spelling

bows22 · June 2021

@paytonpedro eh I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad plan. I think it’s one of those things where you would be justified in seeking help before you get to the 6 months/1 year mark (depending on age) if you wanted to but it’s not like it’s impossible to get pregnant with a shorter LP so it doesn’t hurt to try. I know people have talked about doing things to lengthen LP so hopefully you will get some ideas on that. Also I just went back to read your intro and TW loss

What was your LP like when you had your had your CP? CPs happen so I know it’s not necessarily due to low progesterone but that would be something to think about maybe talking to your doc sooner versus later

paytonpedro · June 2021

TW

@bows22
It was a perfect 11 days prior. Almost never off. It’s been off since but I’ve also been very stressed. So I’m not entirely sure if it’s from one, the other, both, neither. That’s kind of why I’m thinking of waiting. I’m trying to manage my stress better to see if that will help.

fantasyflyte · June 2021

@paytonpedro I don't have a good answer, but if anecdotes are helpful for you, I don't know what my LP was before the pill, but it was like 8 days when I first came off the pill, and has rounded out to a nice 10-11 days by now (I stopped the pill 3 years ago when we briefly tried the first time, and just never went back on it).

daisy0322 · June 2021

Okay so I’ve still not ovulated but I have a new question- I’ve noticed a pattern that when my body is trying to ovulate soon my temp dios to around 97. When my body is just ha gong out not doing anything it’s a bit higher and occasionally has an interesting spike. Does anyone have any ideas what ovulating for real may look like? I’m probably to start bio match HRT meds here soon too so is there even a point in temping anymore? That would mimic a cycle if I O or not

bows22 · June 2021

@daisy0322 it makes sense about the lower temps when gearing up to ovulate because the estrogen surge giving you the fertile CM would also drive your temps down.

daisy0322 · June 2021

@bows22 that’s what I was thinking.... do you think there’s any point of temping with a medicated cycle?

b_1029 · June 2021

@daisy0322 I’m not sure what kind of meds you’d be on, but my RE said it was kind of pointless with the trigger shot since it raises your temp. When I was doing medicated cycles they still had me do OPKs but no temping

eta I assume you’d be monitored also so they’d be able to see follicles and such

rachelredhead · June 2021

Hmmm. I know most folks aren’t using the Mira thing but maybe y’all will have thoughts anyway. Mira predicts O today but that seems wrong when I look at my LH. I don’t really see a surge. My estrogen is rising so I would think O would be later, maybe tomorrow/Friday. That would make O delayed compared to other cycles but maybe it’s just a weird month.

But, maybe that little bump in LH was my peak, since it follows that first estrogen peak? But then it wouldn’t make sense to me that estrogen is on the rise today.

🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

daisy0322 · June 2021

@b_1029 thanks!

kiki047 · June 2021

@inthewoods23 I read that, similar to sperm production, men and women should expect to see actual results from things like dietary or lifestyle changes 3+ months after starting. So the egg you release today would have been influenced by the food you ate 3 months ago. I'm not a doctor but I would expect that anything as subtle as eating pineapple core (which has largely been disproven because dietary levels of bromelain from pineapple core is negligible/not enough to have any actual effect) isn't going to make or break one cycle. Any anti-inflammatory diet can take months before you actually reap any measurable benefits from it. Cutting out inflammatory food just during the TWW isn't enough. Having been on the "do everything" train for so long, it's easy to get caught up in it. Yes, things like beets or pomegranate juice might have some slight effect on your lining development, but then the sugar content in it can also be inflammatory.

@daisy0322 Some people choose to continue tracking BBT when using HRT support but depending on what you'll be on, it's true, your temps will be unduly influenced by the hormone supplementation so it won't really give you much accurate data other than having a pretty chart to look at in addition to the data points (assuming you'll still use FF to track other things). Do you have any idea what you'll be prescribed? Important to note that if they supplement with estrogen you'll likely need a trigger shot because estrogen will suppress natural ovulation.

You also asked about ovulatory vs an-ovulatory cycles:

For reference, these are my 40+ day an-o cycles before I went on metformin. You can ignore the crosshairs, FF was desperately trying to make it look like I O'd, my RE confirmed I did not based on bloodwork.

As you can see by this one, I had several false surges, followed by a plateau.

This one is a typical rocky-mountain type cycle, with one final temp tip and a surge, but still no O.

This was my last cycle before we started metformin. Two false surges, several patches of EWCM, I had stopped OPKs by this point because they weren't giving me any useful readings.

Whereas this is a regular ovulatory cycle with a temp dip and clear surge that stayed elevated above the cover line during my LP.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/4i/fd429rvv0xro.jpg

daisy0322 · June 2021

@kiki047 thank you so much for the charts- I’m not totally sure what they’ll do but I printed out the study for the protocol I want to try.

kgg2241 · June 2021

@rachelredhead With that estrogen spike today I think it looks like you might get your LH surge in the next day or two. It doesn't look like you've ovulated to me yet. I think it takes Mira a few cycles to learn. Did it move your o day back?

rachelredhead · June 2021

@kgg2241 yeah, that’s my guess, too. it’s only my second cycle using Mira so I don’t doubt it may take time. I have also been using OPKs and I haven’t seen a solid positive yet. Mira hasn’t bumped my O yet but I may see that tomorrow based on testing.

acleverusername · June 2021

@paytonpedro okay finally have a chance to reply to you! Sorry for the delay. Anyhow… I have a pretty short luteal phase when I don’t supplement with progesterone so I’ve done a lot of research into the mysterious “luteal phase defect.” Here’s what I’ve learned… the name is just a way to describe a shorter than normal (less than 10 days) luteal phase. It is not, in itself, a disease. There a A LOT of things that can cause LPD. The best article I’ve found on the topic is a guideline published by ASRM a few years ago: https://www.asrm.org/globalassets/asrm/asrm-content/news-and-publications/practice-guidelines/for-non-members/clinical-relevance-of-luteal-phase-deficiency.pdf

In my case, the cause of LPD is most likely hypothyroidism (hence the crazy diet). But unless you can see how you fit into one of those causes, it’s really hard to find an underlying reason for LPD.

When I read the article, the main takeaway for me was that: there is no way to accurately measure progesterone in LP given its pulsatile nature. You’d have to have a blood test every hour to get a sense of progesterone profile.

But that article is just to give you some background information. What might be most interesting is that there is recent research proving that exogenous administration of progesterone can reduce loss rate. So, I would just ask your OB for progesterone supplementation.

Here’s another article of interest:

https://www.rcog.org.uk/en/news/progesterone-could-prevent-8450-miscarriages-a-year-finds-new-research/

(There’s one more I wanted to link you to, but I can’t find it atm. I’ll look tomorrow on my laptop.)

Let me know if you have any questions!

paytonpedro · June 2021

@acleverusername thank you so much for these articles and your response! I started the first one and jumped around a little but found possible causes and the only one I could see is stress 😓 I just had blood work done in January with thyroid panels and I just had low vit. D. Everything else came back normal. Im going to read them more a little later, thanks again!!!

SmashJam · June 2021

@paytonpedro my experience is very similar to @fantasyflyte as far as short luteal phase. I'm not sure about my LP this last cycle bc I wasn't doing anything bc I wasn't temping or using OPKs, but the last time I was TTC I was off BC and I just looked at my charts-it took a solid 5 cycles for my cycles to shorten and my LP to go to 10 days-right after I was done with BC I had 35-38 day cycles with an 8-9 day LP.

paytonpedro · June 2021

Another question….
how do you all feel about cervical position/openness/closed-ness? Another app I’m on says it’s unreliable but I don’t honestly know much about it or if it’s helpful/unhelpful/useful/useless???

pajamstagrams · June 2021

@paytonpedro I don't track it because I'm super squeamish about sticking my finger up there🙈 😬 if you reliably track BBT/cm/OPKs you probably have enough fertility signs.

fantasyflyte · June 2021

@paytonpedro I don't generally bother with position because cm and opks is enough for me. I might note it in my chart if I happen to notice it's way hugher or lower than usual, but cm/opk/tenp has been plenty for me to pretty accurately track.

acleverusername · June 2021

@paytonpedro it's super unreliable and differs by time of day. As other have said, OPK, bbt + CM are more reliable and should be enough. I'm pretty sure at this point, it's not that you're missing your FW... it's that sperm and egg haven't met yet. So, just keep trying.

inthewoods23 · June 2021

@paytonpedro my cervix is basically always high so that part never matters for tracking purposes. The most I maybe get out of checking is firmness. But I also feel like I just mark things because "well my OPK was positive so that must be what a soft cervix feels like since it should be soft around now and idk I guess it was open".

keikilove · June 2021

@paytonpedro I guess I’ll be the lone voice here that says it’s very informative & reliable for me.😄 What helps me the most is on O day when it’s already plugged up (sounds weird & gross, but I’ve learned that the CM gets super thick & seals/blocks the opening when party time is over) and I don’t need to attempt 1 more HIO. Similarly, usually on the night of O day, or the morning after, my cervix is closed tight & firm, which also gives me the red light that FW is over. I find this helpful because at this point in TTC I’m super tired of HIO many times in FWeek. Once recently, I was taking a fertility med that dried up all my CM & my OPKs hadn’t started to turn yet. I checked cervical position & it was high, soft, & open so I knew it was Go time despite no other clues. The next day I got my OPK peak surge & it only lasted a couple hours, so if it weren’t for checking my cervix I might’ve missed the FW altogether. So yes, I find it very useful.

paytonpedro · June 2021

Thank you everyone for all the information!!!

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