Chart Stalk and Questions May 2021

daisy0322 · May 2021

Charts and questions here 😊

daisy0322 · May 2021

Sorry everyone me again! I have two questions-
1. Should I stop taking OPKs now and assume I probably O’d early?
2. What’s the point of temping after O?

TIA

inthewoods23 · May 2021

@daisy0322 since you got a temp shift your probably fine to stop OPKs. You should continue to temp to ensure your shift is maintained. Plenty of times have any of us gotten that bump, only for the temp to drop the next day. At a minimum it's probably good to get CHs but continuing to temp in the TWW can help with understanding when AF might arrive.

daisy0322 · May 2021

@inthewoods23 thank you♥️ That helps

acleverusername · May 2021

@daisy0322 one thing to watch out for with temping in TWW is the false hope / despair that can come with every temperature shift. Some actually stop keeping track of their BBT in LP because it can become an anxiety-provoking exercise.

daisy0322 · May 2021

@acleverusername that’s good to know too. I’m going to see how I feel after I confirm O. I’m having a hard time going back to sleep after I temp and have been tired. However I do love a chart lol

daisy0322 · May 2021

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/du/wy8gado3a199.jpeg

Hi it’s me- it’s always me 😩 so I’ve been up quite a bit the last two nights but my temp is falling pretty badly. Do yall think I failed to O?

bows22 · May 2021

@daisy0322 it’s definitely possible that you had a false surge but the fact that you had a temp shift after makes me think you did O and the last 2 temps are just from not having consistent sleep. I would just keep temping for now and see if they bounce back.

daisy0322 · May 2021

@bows22 thanks! I was thinking the same thing then I got a high reading on an OPK. Time will tell but I’m guessing it was a false surge.

inthewoods23 · May 2021

@daisy0322 I want to say some chart patterns might see a drop in temps shortly after O. I think they call it a fallback rise? But I would lean towards the false surge theory since all of your temps so far are still pretty close together.

daisy0322 · May 2021

@inthewoods23 that’s what I’m leaning towards however I think tomorrow I’ll have a better idea. Thanks 💕

[Deleted User] · May 2021

@daisy0322 Yeah, I think perhaps the hardest part, is that temping doesn't usually tell you a whole lot in real time, but rather you can look back at how things are trending and see what happened. So it's great, if it does turn out to be a fallback rise, then you have perfect timing! But in a few more days if it doesn't amount to a sustained shift, then there you have it. Hang in there! I do think -- in your case especially -- it's important to try and at least keep temping until you see a convincing shift / ovulatory pattern. Once you see that, if it's going to stress you out too much to keep temping, then you can just WFAF / test whenever you decide. :)

Incidentally, for whoever may need to hear this, this is also a beautiful illustration of why we always historically waited until 3DPO as a rule, before moving over to TWW. (Only exceptions being things like treatment where a trigger or IUI / IVF was involved, type of situation, or if for some reason you had a scan that showed that you had ovulated.)

bows22 · May 2021

@BusinessWife I don’t necessarily disagree with your comment in general, but she had CHs showing 3 DPO yesterday.

[Deleted User] · May 2021

@bows22 Yeah, it can happen. That is annoying when FF takes CH away. :/

daisy0322 · May 2021

@BusinessWife yeah I’ve had awful sleep and only an hour or so before temping the last two days so I’m not entirely convinced it’s accurate. I had a weird almost positive OPK this morning first thing but then the next be like 2 hours later was extremely negative so I’m not counting it. It’ll be interesting in the morning. All other signed point to Ovulation being over so who knows.

keikilove · May 2021

Random question: Does anyone use Apple Watch and other devices to monitor your heart rate, steps, etc? Do you notice any discrepancies between your devices?

I’m new to the Apple watch and have noticed that it is logging many more steps than my Fitbit. But it’s also recording my active & resting heart rates much differently than my Fitbit. (I’m wearing one device on each wrist while I compare them.) Just curious if anyone else has noticed this, or if you’ve been able to o determine which is most accurate?

bows22 · May 2021

@keikilove sometimes my “activity” ring will close on my Apple Watch while I’m sitting at my computer working. So I have doubts about the reliability, but haven’t compared to another device. Are you wearing the Fitbit on the same wrist you always have? I wonder if you talk with your other hand or move it while walking? You should try switching wrists and see if the Apple Watch still records more steps. And report back, I’m curious!

keikilove · May 2021

@bows22 I’ve kept the Fitbit on my left wrist, as I usually wear it there. It’s a great idea to switch them and see how the Apple Watch reacts. I can’t stand having anything on my right wrist; I probably do a lot more with it being right-handed, so the Apple Watch may
be picking that up. Thanks for the idea!

daisy0322 · May 2021

@bows22 Fitbit has a dominant/ non dom setting too depending on which wrist you use

acleverusername · May 2021

@keikilove at one point, I investigated the discrepancies between what Apple Watch logged as my running distance and what Nike Run app did; it turned out that Apple Watch was measuring distance by average stride size, and not GPS. Now that was back when I had AW 2, so I’d been hoping they’ve changed that. But maybe not?!

Also, keep in mind that AW is certified Class II medical device by FDA, so I would assume it to be more accurate in some areas but not others (e.g. heart beat might be more accurate). Any who, this might be an interesting read... albeit it a bit old: https://www.reddit.com/r/AppleWatch/comments/bjk4nt/apple_watch_series_4_vs_fitbit_versa_in_terms_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

inthewoods23 · May 2021

Here's my chart this morning:

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/8c/okpeiekop1w4.png

Here's my chart discarding both of those high temps on Thursday and Saturday:

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/e2/gkadlo60khzo.png

And here's my chart if I only discard Saturday:

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5020794/uploads/editor/az/tqzb9yjkbfls.png

Any idea why FF gives me CHs if I only discard 1 temp? Anyone think FF might move my CHs to yesterday as I add more temps this week?

bumblebee0210 · May 2021

@inthewoods23. I am blissfully not temping anymore since science has taken over, but I *think* the algorithm in FF relies on your temp shift being higher than the average (or some other moment) of the last X temps (I think maybe 5 or 6). I am guessing what happens when you discard both is that you don't have enough pre-O low-temp data for CH. But if you discard only one, then you have 5 pre-O temps that are "low enough" (I'm guessing the algorithm either disregards one high temp, or takes an average). Either way, I think you did in fact O on day 14 or 15.

inthewoods23 · May 2021

@bumblebee0210 yeah doesn't the temp shift only need to be 0.3 degrees or something? I did check discarding Thursday and not Saturday and that still gives me CH. I still don't really get it since I have those 3 higher temps from early May so to me I don't have the 5 or 6 temps lower in pre-O. Unless this is another weird AF cycle where I is more than a day after my peak.

daisy0322 · May 2021

I was given the info for a doctor who might be able to help me. I called and spoke to the NP for a bit. Obviously I’ll have to have a real appointment but she talked to me about clomid. Which was never an option because they can’t trigger ovulating for me but she said since I am ovulating that it could increase my odds for conception? I’m a little nervous about messing with my hormones that recently decided to cooperate. Does anyone have experience with clomid? Particularly taking not for ovulation trigger but to “super ovulate”. She also said that she wasnt 100% on that care plan that the doctor would have to make the final call.

bows22 · May 2021

@daisy0322 is this an OB office? OBs have a bad reputation for prescribing clomid when it isn’t always appropriate. It’s only recommended for a certain number of uses in your lifetime (I think because it can thin your lining) and often times you need to be monitored via ultrasound during your cycle. I’m going to be taking it myself after my surgery when I do IUI so it definitely has its place but I personally would only be comfortable taking it under the care of an RE.

Edit for more thoughts - I also won’t be triggering ovulation and the goal for me on clomid is “super ovulation” but I’m AMA - I know you mentioned about your body technically being in menopause but that you have normal fertility when you ovulate so I don’t know if that means if you are having a normal cycle that you could possibly over-respond to the clomid?

daisy0322 · May 2021

@bows22 that was kind of my concern because I have been told I have normal fertility if I ovulate. However, doctors always admit they don’t really know much because Im an unusual case of an unusual pathology I guess she’s some kind of high risk OB and I’m not sure I would last many cycles with it I hate anything that messes with my hormones I always feel awful. I really appreciate your answer. I wanted to bounce this off off some others because I do know there’s doctors out there that can be wild cards.

bows22 · May 2021

@daisy0322 I’ve seen people say here “REs get you pregnant, OBs keep you pregnant” so I always think of that when an OB brings up clomid. But I noticed that my OB has RE listed under her specialties so I’m sure there are some that know more. I think if they are going to monitor you then that’s a different story too. But hopefully you just keep ovulating. I’m curious to see what your doc says though. Did you make the appointment?

daisy0322 · May 2021

@bows22 i haven’t made the appointment yet. I wanted to look into it more on my own first and talk about it. Because it’s super easy to be like yes I want a baby let’s do this and then it’s not actually a good idea. I do know within their “network” they have REs its kind of a interesting situation. I’m more inclined to go to a well known doc in our area who does holistic alternative medicine and has fertility support plans. He’s really into things like acupuncture and looking into your diet and such but he’s outrageously expensive

acleverusername · May 2021

@daisy0322 I did some reading about using Clomid in POI cases and I think the overall consensus is that results are inconsistent but, in majority of cases, it doesn't work (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1586/17474108.2.6.711 & https://www.verywellfamily.com/understanding-primary-ovarian-insufficiency-4067190). So, I agree with @bows22
that if it's something you want to try, RE would be your best bet as you'll want to be monitored closely (blood levels, follicle growth, etc.) I don't think you're at risk for developing many follicles, but if you have no starting antral follicles to begin with, it might be detrimental to your overall health to take Clomid (it does have a lifetime max, and it can thin out your lining; mine went from 8.13mm to 4.11mm in 3 cycles). I think the alternative medicine doctor is an interesting choice; are you talking about a functional medicine doctor?

daisy0322 · May 2021

@acleverusername thanks for the info! Functional mes...I think that’s what he is, yes.

b_1029 · May 2021

@daisy0322 in my experience OBs prescribe you clomid when they don’t know what else to do. Mine did before I moved to the RE and I only did 1 cycle because I was nervous about not being monitored since I ovulate regularly. Did they give a reason for prescribing it to you when it has only been a couple cycles? I guess it could help you ovulate on off months or something?

daisy0322 · May 2021

@b_1029 their theory was that I am already ovulating but they don’t know for how many cycles and when it stops it may stop forever so clomid would increase my chances of getting pregnant quicker because it may get me to release two eggs for exsample instead of 1. Basically just trying to optimize my chances while I have a period of fertility available

inthewoods23 · May 2021

Ladies (or their husbands) taking ubiquinol - since this is the active form of CoQ10, do you take less of it? How much do you take a day?

optimistgardener · May 2021

hey @daisy0322 i'm jumping in with @b_1029, @acleverusername and @bows22 with some skepticism about clomid unless you're being carefully monitored. As @b_1029 says, a lot of OB clinics prescribe clomid because they're short on other ideas. I almost think it's a numbers game they play. Like, "this woman is bound to get KU (or go away) eventually, so what can we do in the meantime that will help her to feel like we're being proactive?"
For reference, I have DOR and only a single ovary, and am 38. At a previous clinic (a "women's health" and maternity care office) I was given clomid after 3 months of natural IUIs ending in BFNs. They wanted to go ahead with the IUI that cycle unmonitored, but I insisted on an ultrasound before getting the IUI. the US showed that I had a thin lining (subsequent monitoring has shown that without clomid my lining is normal) and also that the clomid had produced only a single small follicle that prematurely ruptured. We canceled my IUI that cycle, and in the next they put me on letrozole instead (which also ultimately proved unhelpful). I'm not saying that clomid isn't useful for many women, but it's clearly more useful for some than others.

acleverusername · May 2021

@inthewoods23 I was told to take the same of COQ10 or Ubiquinol. And that dose was 600mg. Not sure if that’s helpful. I now take the NeoQ10 from Theralogix and I take 2 of those pills daily. I only give 1 to MH.

daisy0322 · May 2021

Thank you everyone! I really appreciate the input

daisy0322 · May 2021

Alrighty- me again. As an OB correspondent update she does actually want to monitor me And she said she doesn’t want to do clomid for a few reasons but she has other ideas so I have and appointment with her next month.

now- ugh I made the appointment but now I think maybe I didn’t even O? I had a high OPK reading last night which I read can be normal right before your period but now it’s peak this afternoon premom called at a 1.38. Which seems .... extreme? For 16 dpo.

I don’t know y’all I’m just frustrated. I totally cried today about it too even though that’s unlike me. My cycles just seemed so regular for 3 months and now this. It shouldn’t be this hard. Maybe I’m being dramatic 😬

kgg2241 · May 2021

@daisy0322 I don't have any advice or insight, but I'm so sorry you are feeling so frustrated. It is hard to figure all this out, especially when our body throw us curve balls. Hugs.

fameonmain2 · May 2021

@daisy0322 ok I totally feel you, this has happened to me before and there's nothing like thinking you have O'ed and are now in the TWW and then realizing you didn't, it's so frustrating. Are you tracking any other signs (like CM & CP) to help corroborate O? Bc your temps suggest O, but they're not super consistent so it's possible that you didn't O at all! Remind me what your cycles were like before... consistent? Or all over the place?

[Deleted User] · May 2021

@daisy0322 So the CH are still dotted, did they ever get solid past 3DPO? What detection setting do you have FF set to? Do any of the other setting modes change or remove the CH all together?

It will be interesting to see how low this current dip may go. To my eye, I would say also that the two lows during your FP (26th and the 1st) are not looking super <i>progressively </i>lower, terribly. KWIM? Which is maybe not a clinical thing, but I have noticed with my charts anyway, the FP temps seem to really trend downward, and even if there are other prior dips, the pre-O dip is definitively The Lowest. Like I would love to have seen that O dip just like another .1 degree lower or so, and then it would be more pronounced, and then a true upward leveling off or sort of plateauing of those "post-o" temps. I guess that is my overly wordy way of saying I agree that I'm not sure your current chart actually looks biphasic to me. :/

babyodo · May 2021

@daisy0322, I'll be interested to see how your temps trend given the recent dip. I've been temping since 2014 (I know, I know, every body is different), and while my pre-O temps hover in the 97.1-97.7 degree range, once I've ovulated they tend to never dip below 98 degrees until I'm due for my period.

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