January 2020 Moms

Weekly Check-in Groups 3&4 (Jan 17-31) w/o 9/2

Est Due Date/Weeks + Days:

Team Finding Out/Blue/Pink/Green:

Baby is the size of a(n):

Upcoming Appointments:

How are you feeling?:

Rants/Raves: 

Questions: 

GTKY: Tell us or show us the part/room/corner of your house that you are most proud of.

Re: Weekly Check-in Groups 3&4 (Jan 17-31) w/o 9/2

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  • @marebear15 floor to ceiling bookshelves are part of my dream home. One day when we decide to buy a house I’ll have them! So exciting your anatomy scan is tomorrow! I can’t believe we are already half way through. 


  • @kbrown2385 good luck with your amino!
    @marebear15 ugh so jealous of your book shelves. 

    Est Due Date/Weeks + Days: 1/17, 20+3

    Team Finding Out/Blue/Pink/Green: pink

    Baby is the size of a(n): banana

    Upcoming Appointments: Wednesday ultra sounds, 9/17 placenta study round 2 w/mri, 9/30 24 week appointment 

    How are you feeling?: hormotional but otherwise good. 

    Rants/Raves: raves, she’s definitely moving more consistently now. Though I haven’t really picked up on her schedule yet. Also went to the ren faire yesterday. It was fun. But I missed drinking mead. 

    Rants, I have some form a dermatitis I think from my deodorant. And it’s spread all over my body. Imma ask the dr at the anatomy scan on Wednesday if it’s something we should be concerned about or and if there’s anything I can take to make the itching stooooppppppp. 

    Questions: nope

    GTKY: Tell us or show us the part/room/corner of your house that you are most proud of. Ummm our third floor. It was a half finished room when we moved in that was converted from an attic. So we have mostly finished it up, new paint, flooring, patched walls, and have converted it into a bar/study for DH. It needs hvac piping still but we will do that later. We plan to throw a futon up there for when we have both sets of grandparents over so we can sleep up there and they can have the guest bedroom and our room. 
    PG #1: 36w5d 12/25/19
    PG #2: EDD 8/15/23 Miscarried 9w1d 1/11/23
    PG #3: EDD 12/15/23
  • @kbrown2385 I love your kitchen island! YH is so handy! 

    @marebear15 love you'r bookshelf and little reading nook!

    @stashattack sorry about your dermatitis. What kind of deodorant are you using? I've tried natural ones but they don't work for me. 


    Est Due Date/Weeks + Days: January 25th 19wks2days

    Team Finding Out/Blue/Pink/Green: Blue

    Baby is the size of a(n): heritage tomatoe

    Upcoming Appointments: Sept 5th to recheck blood pressure and go over labs. Sept 17th anatomy scan (so excited!)

    How are you feeling?: pretty good. Allowing myself to enjoy the 2nd trimester instead of worrying about the fact that I don't "feel" pregnant

    Rants/Raves: my mom, who I'm normally not very close with, wants to do something for the baby so I told her it'd be a big help if she could pitch in for the car seat and stroller set I want, which is on the very expensive side, and she is going to end up paying for more than half! I'm very grateful. 😊

    Questions: is anyone having a hard time sleeping on their left side? My hips and thighs hurt after a bit and I end up rolling onto my stomach (which is how I normally sleep) and I'm worried I'm hurting the baby. I mean, I'm sure he's cushioned well enough and I know sleeping on my back can cut off blood supply but everything on Google says my "bump" will be too big to sleep on my stomach anyway but I don't have a bump yet. My stomach is already kinda big and "fluffy" and other than the bottom part feeling heavier, I look exactly the same as I did before getting pregnant so yea, nothing stopping me from sleeping on my stomach. In the middle of the night I end up kicking my pregnancy pillow to the floor and right onto my stomach. My poor baby 😖

    GTKY: Tell us or show us the part/room/corner of your house that you are most proud of. My house is still a work in progress but I just ordered several furniture pieces for my living room which I'm excited about, including a giant bookshelf similar to @marebear15 I'll finally be able to unbox the rest of my books! (Yes, a year later 😕)
  • @stashattack - Oooh, did you go to the ren fair in costume? If so, I'd love to see it!

    @peppyj9 - I'm a stomach sleeper too, and I find myself waking up on my stomach a lot. As long as it's still comfortable to me, it's not a problem. I've trained myself to sleep on both sides though and switch sides every few hours in the night.
  • @peppyj9 it was one of the more natural ones. Planet love and beauty. 🤷‍♀️

    @marebear15 I didn’t get a full pic but it’s a pirate costume! Though I couldn’t wear my corset cuz of the bump. I still need a skirt. Until then I’ve just been rocking my tunic shirt in leggings 


    PG #1: 36w5d 12/25/19
    PG #2: EDD 8/15/23 Miscarried 9w1d 1/11/23
    PG #3: EDD 12/15/23
  • @peppyj9 I usually end up switching during the night. I’ll wake up with my left hip numb. I’m usually a back sleeper so sometimes I shove a pillow under my right hip and right side of my back so I’m at least leaning towards my left. I think sleeping on your stomach is ok as long as it’s comfortable. I’ve started hating the pregnancy pillow I bought, I just can’t get comfortable with it. I use like 5 pillows now. 
  • Est Due Date/Weeks + Days: Jan 26 19w1d

    Team Finding Out/Blue/Pink/Green: Blue

    Baby is the size of a(n): Adipose from Dr. Who

    Upcoming Appointments: 22w

    How are you feeling?: I'm just meh. 

    Rants/Raves: SO and I went to IKEA the other day and I fell in love with a mattress. I'm trying to work out how to convince him we need it like right now. The upside is its 1/4 the price of the Simmons I want, so here's hoping. 

    Questions:  Nah. 

    GTKY: Tell us or show us the part/room/corner of your house that you are most proud of. My house has a formal dinining room I've turned into a library/office. In one.corner, I have an Edison light bulb sitting on a stack of books next to a couch. It's my reading nook. 


  • @peppyj9 - I roll all around at night.   Sleeping on my belly is my preference, and I still do it, but baby has just started waking up and poking me all over sometimes when I do it, so that makes me stop.  I doubt it's a matter of being squished, but still, it seems like the space must be a little limited if I feel her so much more. 

    @marebear15 - I love the floor to ceiling bookcase!  We have a long living room with an arch in the middle, and we are planning on bookcases like that on the end with our couch.   We have an old house that needs tons of work, so it might take forever to get there, but I will love it! 
    BabyFruit Ticker

    BFP 3.8.16  EDD 11.20.16

    image

  • @kbrown2385 that's an awesome island! He did a great job!

    @marebear15 have a great anatomy scan today! So much fun seeing them at this stage. Being able to start figuring out the wake/sleep pattern is a lot of fun. Love those bookshelves!

    @stashattack ugh, dematitis is no fun, especially when pregnant and treatment options can be more limited. Hopefully they figure out what it is.

    @peppyj9 that's so awesome your mom is covering over half! I was told that I would be fine sleeping in any position, including stomach and back, and that my body or the baby would wake me up if I needed to roll over and reposition. That said, I'm more a side and occasional back sleeper than stomach.

    @FyreFlyeRush at a quarter of the price, how much convincing is needed? Or were you guys not looking period?

    Est Due Date/Weeks + Days: 19 weeks, 4 days

    Team Finding Out/Blue/Pink/Green: finding out next week!

    Baby is the size of a(n): a Gameboy

    Upcoming Appointments: Sept 10

    How are you feeling?: Overall pretty good. I'm getting randomly exhausted. I'm either not eating/drinking enough or overdoing it likely. But I'll sit down at the end of the day and be ready to fall asleep.

    Rants/Raves: Feeling the baby move more! It's picked up this week. 

    Questions: 

    GTKY: Tell us or show us the part/room/corner of your house that you are most proud of. That's tough! I think my kitchen color. It's just such a bright, happy turquoise-ish shade. The rest of the kitchen needs updating, but at least it's not terrible (white cabinets and medium toned hardwood). But the color always makes me smile and I get lots of compliments. 
  • @persnickity I need to finish painting my kitchen a beautiful earthy bright green from this mustardy yellow that was the color we bought the house in. That color matches the earthy yellow vinyl way too much and the green really make the floor really pop which is super awesome. I got the big wall painted but the small wall and the backsplash area still need to be painted. Having a happy color in the kitchen really makes all the difference.
    PG #1: 36w5d 12/25/19
    PG #2: EDD 8/15/23 Miscarried 9w1d 1/11/23
    PG #3: EDD 12/15/23
  • @stashattack that sounds pretty! Greens can be really hard to pick. I feel like there are so many more shades impacted by your specific lighting compared to like blue. A happy color makes such a big difference. I painted the kitchen twice in back to back weekends to get it just right. 😊
  • @persnickity, he thought I was looking at replacing my mattress because he doesn't like how plush it is. He didn't realize I was factoring in his opinion when looking at a new one. I got mine in 2009. I've been looking at them for 2 years but didn't want to spend 3200 on a midrange Simmons Beauty Rest. I wasn't expecting IKEA to rank just as high at a fraction of the cost...and that's IKEA's most EXPENSIVE one. When we were there, I realized we can buy the mattress, a new bed frame, DS1's loft bed, DD's storage bed, AND a sofa for the cost of JUST the Simmons. He just needs some convincing to actually fork over the cash right now. We both love to plan...neither of us like to spend. 
  • @FyreFlyeRush we face the same issue some times. We're both great at planning... Spending not so much. Hopefully you can convince him!
  • @kbrown2385 is it the same pregnancy pillow I had recommended a while back? Because I'm starting to hate mine too. I loved it at first but note I feel like it's not firm enough or something
  • @FyreFlyeRush and @persnickity I personally love our tuft and needle mattress. We've had it now like 2 years and it's fantastic. I have back issues so I know what it's like to sleep on a shitty mattress. Or how it is not to sleep! LOL. It's the perfect amount of plush to firm so that you don't feel like your sinking nor sleeping on a rock. Plus it gets delivered to your door in a box. HAHA. So no hauling it in and out of your car. Definitely check them out!
    PG #1: 36w5d 12/25/19
    PG #2: EDD 8/15/23 Miscarried 9w1d 1/11/23
    PG #3: EDD 12/15/23
  • Est Due Date/Weeks + Days: 1/25/20 19w3d

    Team Finding Out/Blue/Pink/Green: We’re having a boy. It was confirmed again today LOL I’ve been having these weird dreams where I went in for our anatomy scan and they were like, “oops! We were wrong!” and I told my ultrasound tech this morning about it so she confirmed again this morning for me. It was even more evident this scan. He’s definitely a boy. 

    Baby is the size of a(n): mango. Exact measurements this morning were 20 cm, 11 oz 

    Upcoming Appointments: We had our a/s this morning. Everything was perfect. Thought I was seeing mfm but I guess they’re still waiting
    for authorization from my insurance so hopefully we’ll be meeting with them before my next appt on 10/1. 

    How are you feeling?: Tired LOL And my boobs are starting to hurt again. I had lost about 45 lbs prior to finding out I was pregnant and went from a 44DDD back down to a 42DD. I’m back up to my old bras. 

    Rants/Raves: Got our genetic testing results back today. I figured they were good since we hadn’t heard from the doctor in the past month but seeing the paper today with all the screening coming back negative lifted a huge weight. It was also exciting to see our little guy’s personality come out today too. He did okay during the ultrasound and cooperated but by the time we got into the exam room for my OB appt he was having none of it and fought the poor girl with the doppler LOL He kicked it and then was squirming away. She eventually gave up because we had just had our ultrasound and we got a fhr then. 

    Questions: For anyone who has seen an mfm already, what is that like? Just wondering because it seems like everything is going perfectly normal with my pregnancy, blood work is normal, bp is perfect, weight gain isn’t an issue and genetic testing came back negative for abnormalities. Like, I get that I’m ama, so what’s going to be different with an mfm?  

    GTKY: Tell us or show us the part/room/corner of your house that you are most proud of. I literally have no part of my house I’m proud of LOL There is soooooo much I want to do with this place and I just haven’t had the time/money to do anything.
  • FyreFlyeRushFyreFlyeRush member
    edited September 2019
    @mommahov13, I'm AMA, as well, and I've seen an MFM twice now. Because my blood pressure icky, I'll go for growth scans from 28w on to make sure he's doing ok.  Other than that, an MFM appt is pretty much the same as your regular OB. They're just more specialized. You'll usually see an MFM for your anatomy scan and any screenings, or if you're have high risk or in-depth testing (like an amnio). Being AMA does not automatically make you high risk, but you are at a HIGHER risk for developing complications. 

    EDIT: When I was pregnant with DS1, also AMA, I didn't see the MFM again after my anatomy scan. 
  • @mommahov13 I've only seen MFM for my ultrasounds. So I went for my first appointment at 9 weeks and then my anatomy scan tomorrow. Other than that I'm not sure why there's a difference. But I'm also not AMA being 27 or high risk in any other ways so they might come into play if you are higher risk.
    PG #1: 36w5d 12/25/19
    PG #2: EDD 8/15/23 Miscarried 9w1d 1/11/23
    PG #3: EDD 12/15/23
  • @FyreFlyeRush @stashattack Thanks ladies! I saw my regular OB for my anatomy scan this morning, but the OB did say they were going to schedule another scan with the mfm before week 24 so I’m guessing I won’t be seeing them very often seeing as I don’t seem to have any high risk issues other than my age. 
  • I'm Back!  Sorry I went missing.  We had some vacation and then the kids had some nasty virus that seemed to last forever.  Honestly I wish The Bump was more user friendly.  If I don't have more than 10 minutes free time its so hard for me to get around the site.

    @kbrown2385 That island is great!!  I need something like that.  We have the smallest hallway kitchen and the limited counter space sucks!  Also I really hope your amnio goes smoothly on Wednesday!
    @marebear15 I love your little reading den!  Give me a good book with some free time and I struggle putting the book down!
    @stashattack Sorry about your skin issues!  Maybe just stop the deodorant and pick up a new kind.  I know every pregnancy something that I've always used will irritate my skin.  Damn hormones.
    @peppyj9 I can't say anything about sleeping on the stomach because I don't know but I flip from my left to right all night.  My OB says its ok to sleep on my right side too.  Occasionally I'll wake up on my back and wonder how the hell I got there but it's hard to control what we do in our sleep I suppose.
    @FyreFlyeRush If you need a new mattress than 1/4 the price sounds like a solid yes to me.  Hopefully you are able to convince!


    Est Due Date/Weeks + Days: Jan 24th, 19 +4

    Team Finding Out/Blue/Pink/Green: Green 

    Baby is the size of a(n): I believe it was a Mango

    Upcoming Appointments:  We have our 20 week ultrasound this Friday!

    How are you feeling?:  I'm feeling pretty good.  I have to keep up on my heartburn medicine.  I have it pretty bad again with this pregnancy and no my kids never get a full head of hair lol.

    Rants/Raves:   I'm feeling more of baby.  It is random and not everyday but I hope it picks up daily for my sanity.  Also lots of pressure and just pain from stretching.  I'm assuming because It's my 3rd baby I can feel it more but I also feel like I might be a whale by the end of this.

    Questions:  

    GTKY: Tell us or show us the part/room/corner of your house that you are most proud of.    Oh gosh I'm not proud of anything in my house.  It was our starter home almost 6 years ago and I haven't done much with it because I dislike it so much.  I'm constantly looking at houses so we can move.
  • @kbrown2385 I'm so jealous of your island. We really hate ours but it isn't high on the list to do because we need to do a whole kitchen remodel to make it work for us and we will have to save for a while to make that happen so.... Then again DH does the cooking so I shouldn't complain. 

    @marebear15 love the bookshelves. We desperately need more in our house...just haven't figured out the best place to put them yet. There can never be such a thing as too many books in my opinion!

    @peppyj9 I totally agree on the sleeping. I am normally a side sleeper anyways but just am uncomfortable all night it seems. Pregnancy pillow might actually be making it worse but I've tried without and it is the same. It is my opinion at this point there isn't a good way to get sleep and that it will just be bad no matter what I do so try my best....

    @stashattack Green is my favorite color!!! Also I'm always so amazed how a little paint makes such a big difference in a room. We have lived in our house for a year and haven't changed the wall colors yet (we're getting there) but we did pain the ceilings white and it made such an amazing difference!

    Also I've looked at the tuft and needle mattresses. They look so awesome but again I have a hard time pulling the trigger on that sort of thing. Our mattress is 8 years old now and I know it needs replacing soon and we have a bunch of other mattresses that also likely need replacing but uggh hard to spend money on comfort which is stupid lol!

    @persnickity your kitchen sounds lovely! Also @FyreFlyeRush we are much better planners than spenders. Which is probably a good thing all things considered but it does mean we live with crap longer than we ought likely.

    Est Due Date/Weeks + Days: 19 wk 3 days (Jan 25)

    Team Finding Out/Blue/Pink/Green: Green...though I'm finding it difficult as the anatomy scan draws near and lots of others are going to find out. 

    Baby is the size of a(n): Tall as a peanut butter jar (though it doesn't say what size...)

    Upcoming Appointments: Sept 10 anatomy scan

    How are you feeling?: I would say better because honestly more energy and less nausea all around. But this morning I definitely puked so hard I wet myself so I guess it could be better still. Stupid sinuses

    Rants/Raves: I have multiple raves actually! The first one is that we had a mini college reunion this weekend and it was so fun to see everyone. One of the ladies was pregnant and 8 weeks behind me so I took her maternity shopping and she is so thankful to feel comfortable in clothes again!

    The second rave is that for once and for all we sorted out the heirloom crib with my dad. I thought we had decided it was going to be too much work but then my mom found a site that sold hardware etc. and they wanted to know if I wanted to use it. It ended up such that I was crying because I realized my hesitance was that if anything went wrong I would rather be mad at a company and it not be associated in any way with my parents. They were completely fine with that and it ended well. Glad we had the talk and I think it's finally sorted so that's good. My dad is going to make the old crib into something else we can put in the nursery. 

    Questions: To all the STM's was it useful to have parents and support available during the day for the first few weeks after delivery? I'm scared to be on my own I think but I don't know how long to ask my parents to stay (in a rented place in town).

    GTKY: Tell us or show us the part/room/corner of your house that you are most proud of. Well we very much consider our house a work in progress and all the things we are proud of seem super silly like putting in a door from the garage to the backyard and painting all our celings white. But we are both stoked because the nursery will really be the first room that we are going to do the way we want! It's a construction zone right now so I won't post a pic but excited for the finished product!

  • @biolprof one of us one of us!! JKJK totally stay team green! haha. It'll be exciting at birth. I love green too. It's one of my favorites. It's just awesome how it really just changes the entire feel of the room. And I totally feel you on the mattress thing. It's tough pulling the trigger, but it's definitely worth it and they make returning it if you don't like it within the 100 day window easy. That's what made me pull the trigger. That and the 10yo barely used rock of a mattress that we got with the family bedroom set killing my back made it easier too. Anything would have been better than that garbage. LOL

    @mispanda I have stopped using it. Like as of a week ago. I'm waiting for all of this to clear up before I pick something else up. No sense in putting shit on my skin when it's already irritated. It's just super frustrating LOL. 
    PG #1: 36w5d 12/25/19
    PG #2: EDD 8/15/23 Miscarried 9w1d 1/11/23
    PG #3: EDD 12/15/23
  • @biolprof, I was team green in my first pregnancy right up until 38w, when I had a fluid scan and there was NO missing baby was a girl, lol. I loved not knowing. It was funny to watch everyone guess and have a baby pool. And my then partner and I would argue, "I only make boys" said he, "This one's a girl," said I. 
  • @biolprof I actually opted not to have anyone stay. DH took the week off, so it was both of us the first week home. We had the grandparents come over for limited visits. I actually really valued the time as a family and then alone. It gave me time to bond and figure out motherhood. It was also less stress for me, because family can stress me out some days.

    This time with DD, my folks will be coming to be with her while I'm in the hospital and then will be leaving once we're home and settled. They live about 2 hours away.
  • @biolprof I actually had all visitors wait two weeks after birth before visiting. Dh and I wanted to settle down as a new family and figure out our new normal before having any visitors. It helped that we were at least 15 hours from either set of parents but it was so worth it to us to have that time together. 

    @mommahov13 I see mfm every 2 weeks for
    growth scans. They are just able to be more in depth than my ob office so not really anything different.
  • biolprofbiolprof member
    edited September 2019
    Thanks @kbrown2385 and @persnickity for those insights! I would never invite my in-laws but I know my mom would just be helpful to have around cooking and what not. I can't imagine being so sleep deprived and having to figure out how to feed myself and get laundry done. I know my parents wouldn't be a hassle but a help but interesting that you both opted not to have people around. 

    edit: missing words
  • @biolprof I think it depends on you, YH, and the family.  DH typically cooks and I typically do laundry. So it wasn't terrible for either of us to pitch in as needed.
    I think the biggest thing was expectations. I didn't expect myself to be able to keep up with any of those things and neither did DH. But I think spending time as a small family helped us not feel overwhelmed. I didn't have anyone judging me. "I did this when you were a baby, but if you want to try that" kind of statements.
  • @stashattack I hope you can find something that works for you!
    @biolprof team green too.  It's hard but it was such a great surprise to find out in the delivery room!  Also, I didn't have anyone over right away.  I'm too much of a hormonal mess after delivery and I tend to cry a lot and like being alone without visitors.  Plus mid winter and I wanted all the germs to stay away.   If you have a close relationship with your parents and you'll feel more comfortable with having someone around for the first few days ask them to stay and help!  I feel like your parents will definitely let you know how long they can stay and help for.


  • I'm a bit late to this party as life has been crazy, but here it goes (better late than never!)

    Est Due Date/Weeks + Days: Jan 27/19+2

    Team Finding Out/Blue/Pink/Green: Team green

    Baby is the size of a(n): mango

    Upcoming Appointments: Midwife appointment this afternoon, anatomy scan next Monday!

    How are you feeling?: Emotionally overwhelmed with life right now and the thought of bringing another baby into it. DH thinks that I had a similar phase during my previous pregnancies, but I don't remember.  Generally feeling like a crummy mom/worker/housekeeper/person right now and that's a pretty yucky place to be.  Had a hormonally-induced freakout over the weekend about how I do so much work around the house (especially cooking) and everyone complains about it all the time.  Hoping this phase passes soon.  Physically, still feeling fine, albeit super-hungry all the time.

    Rants/Raves: I've been feeling movement everyday for about a week now, and it's putting my PGAL brain at ease.  Love feeling LO squirm around and looking forward to seeing them during the anatomy scan next week!

    Questions: none

    GTKY: Tell us or show us the part/room/corner of your house that you are most proud of. I'm not much of a decorator, but we did move DD into a big girl bed and bought her a matching dresser, so that's exciting!  It's a white twin day-bed with storage drawers underneath and a pull-out trundle.  We also replaced the knobs on the bed and dresser with these crystal pulls we found at home goods (DD is a total girly-girl so it matches her style).  She picked out a cute pink unicorn bed set to go with her new bed.
  • @DalexRN your library is so pretty, I love the combination of soft pink and green together.  Will make great colors for a nursery too ;-)
  • ivybabe21ivybabe21 member
    edited September 2019
    @marebear15 love the library & bookcases! I like decorative accents painted dark/in black. I think it's very chic.

    @preppyj9 yes sleeping on left side is a bit uncomfortable. My hip goes numb or just gets tired. I try to switch it up a little bit. I use a combo of pregnancy pillow and wedge pillow. The wedge pillow makes all the difference for me!

    Est Due Date/Weeks + Days: Jan 24/ 20w

    Team Finding Out/Blue/Pink/Green: pink

    Baby is the size of a(n): banana

    Upcoming Appointments: Sept 23

    How are you feeling?: very emotional, catty attitude 🤣

    Rants/Raves: Cant feel baby yet...trying to be patient. Our nurse says for FTM 20-22 weeks so looking fwd to it.

    Questions: none

    GTKY: Tell us or show us the part/room/corner of your house that you are most proud of.

    We are in the middle of packing our house up for a move. In the new house though, the master closets are built out with shelving and baskets. This will be life changing....can't wait! It's the little things...
  • Est Due Date/Weeks + Days: 1/23 20+1

    Team Finding Out/Blue/Pink/Green: pink

    Baby is the size of a(n): Belgian endive 

    Upcoming Appointments: 9/16

    How are you feeling?: better! Tired and the heartburn is kicking in. But overall not too bad

    Rants/Raves: life has been bonkers. And stressful. And just ugh. They keep changing when MH is going to pre deployment shenanigans so we keep having to rearrange plans around it. Which is just overwhelming to me. But we are getting through it. I also announced my Etsy shop starting October 1 so I’ve been working my tail off on the logistics and inventory for that. Basically just all the things. But it’ll be good in the long run as long as I survive the short run 😂

    Questions: nope

    GTKY: Tell us or show us the part/room/corner of your house that you are most proud of. Right now? None of it. Everything is going in boxes and it’s a hot dang mess

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