UO Thursday!

lilmamabebe3 · March 2019

I forgot this last week but NOT TODAY!

lilmamabebe3 · March 2019

Okay, I don't get the big deal with Amazon. I don't. I mean, I buy stuff from there when I know EXACTLY what I need. Diapers, paper towels, sheets, etc etc etc. but I don't understand how people shop on amazon.

I am in marketing and their emails are garbage. They do no targeting, I buy pens and they send me recommendations for a million other pens THANKS ALREADY GOT THEM. Their site is terrible to deal with. I just do not get it. If they didn't have free 2 day shipping (lol, it's not you pay $120 a year for that shit) Amazon wouldn't be shit.

sourlemon · March 2019

@lilmamabebe3 we get so much stuff from Amazon its crazy. We live in a small town and not everything in available in local stores, so Amazon is always the first place we look if we cant find it locally. But I dont just browse for random crap, we go there looking for something specific. Also, Prime is much more than just free shipping. We dont have real TV anymore but we have Prime, Netflix, and Hulu...they're all about the same price per year, its just broken up into monthly payments with Netflix and Hulu. So I consider Prime to be free shipping, since the real reason we got it was for streaming TV.

grangerhp37 · March 2019

This is a former UO, but I used to always laugh to my self when pregnant women would always walk around with their hand on their belly, especially when posing for pictures. It seemed like they were either trying to accentuate the bump or draw attention to it. But I GET IT NOW! Even though I'm not feeling movement yet, I can feel stretching pretty consistently and there's already some weight to it (even at 17+5), so my hand on it provides some extra support and is just instinctive. I feel bad for all the times I've secretly judged pregnant women!

peachy0709 · March 2019

Maybe it's because this is my third, but I find it so weird that everyone feels entitled to talk to me about my pregnancy. I don't really want to talk about it to people I don't know very well, and people seem to think I should be more forthcoming with information. I didn't realize it was such an UO until this go-round.

Edited to add: I definitely felt this way with DD2, too.

ElcaB · March 2019

@lilmamabebe3 I love Amazon. It makes purchasing things, especially gifts for others, super simple.

@dogmomma096 I was working a trade show over the weekend and a woman noticed I was pregnant and congratulated me. Then she said, "Just whatever you do, don't go walking around with your hands on my belly all the time like that Meghan Markle." I thought this was funny.

My UO: Second baby showers are excessive. I believe in celebrating every pregnancy but I don't think a celebration has to mean a gift-giving occasion.

mkrel · March 2019

@lilmamabebe3 I love amazon! I get that I pay for the shipping, but nothing else will get to me that quickly. So if the price is the same and I can get it in 2 days guaranteed, I buy it on amazon. I also love their easy free returns. I never open marketing emails from any company, so I can't speak to that part of it.
@dogmomma096 Yep! Hand goes to belly automatically.

Here is mine based on the daycare discussion in randoms. Everyone always says how expensive daycare is. I don't think it is expensive. I pay $1100 a month for my daughter to be there for 40 hours, which comes out to about $6.80 an hour probably less considering most months are not exactly 4 weeks. I do think it's crazy when people have to spend more than 2k a month for one kid, but really when you look at what they are doing and consider that they are taking care of and teaching your precious little child, it isn't actually expensive.
ETA: It sucks paying for it though.

mrosek91 · March 2019

Managers should have to get yearly anonymous evaluations from their subordinates about how well they manage. Like the teacher evaluations we used to do in college at the end of every semester.

Allycat11 · March 2019

I hate Dr. Seuss books.

@lilmamabebe3 I am obsessed with Amazon. I can find almost everything I need, usually at a good price, it gets to me in 2 days with the easiest returns on most items.

@ElcaB also not a fan of second baby showers. We had one for our first. No shower, sprinkle or anything else for our second. No plans to have anything for this one either.

cato99 · March 2019

@mkrel that’s a REALLY a good deal on childcare, so I definitely agree with you that in your case it’s not expensive! In my area I didn’t find anywhere for less that the low-mid $2Ks, AND after paying non-refundable fees for wait lists and contacting around 30 daycare centers (starting at 20 weeks pregnant, looking ahead for after maternity leave, so not even last minute) I still didn’t get a spot anywhere and had to go with a nanny. My daughter is almost 2 and I still get hilarious emails saying “you’re still on the waiting list! We’ll let you know if something opens up” like ok it has been literal years this child is leaving for college next week.

So my not at all unpopular opinion is that the US is way overdue for some kind of daycare reform at the national level.

zamoraspin · March 2019

@lilmamabebe3 I buy so much stuff on Amazon. It's so much easier than going to several stores that may or may not have what I want. I pay for Prime and we do use the streaming TV feature and also Amazon music (that admittedly used to be better before they added an additional subscription price for "unlimited") in addition to the shipping. I don't pay a lot of attention to the ads. I can get a lot of items I buy regularly cheaper on Amazon plus a discount for Subscribe and Save on items like vitamins and dog food.

@dogmomma096 I do think the belly touching is partly an instinct thing and pregnant women do it without even realizing.

My UO: The best pizza is cheese pizza. Sometimes toppings are nice but a truly great pizza doesn't need fancy toppings.

jmesue1030 · March 2019

@mkrel when you break it down to the hourly rate, it doesn’t seem bad, but keep in mind the federal minimum wage is $7.25/hour. In my state it’s $8.15/hour. Most people need childcare before and after their work hours for commute time. While $6.80/hour might be realistic for your family, it makes working for many families almost impossible/simply not worth it. I agree with @cato99 that the US is way behind other countries and seriously needs childcare reform.

goldfishcraker · March 2019

I am astounded at the cost of child care in the states.... Reading all the recent posts, I am shocked. I thought it was bad here! And our minimum wage is higher than most of the states. For infant (under 2) in our city is average $750/month. (ETA: works out to about $4.35/hr) Apparently about $500 for toddlers (about $2.90/hr).
We are one of the most affordable major cities in the country..but still.
We also can't get on lists till after baby is born. ( And apparently it's nearly impossible to get a spot).
ETA: the cost isn't my difficulty though. There are just basically 0 options for parents who work non-typical schedules. No extended days. No weekends. No overnight.

We use (Canadian) Amazon all the time. Though apparently American Amazon has way more/better products.
But convenience of shipping, the customer service, and the fact it's usually slightly cheaper than in the store, makes it useful for us. Especially around the holidays. I HATE crowds and trying to find parking and waiting in line at stores....

@dogmomma096 I also used to find it kinda odd to see women holding their bumps.... (Usually only in pictures. I can't remember many real life situations). But I have found I end up rubbing my belly a lot. Especially when I have RLP flare ups.

@ElcaB I've never known anyone who has a second shower. I would probably hold a celebration party for closest friends and family for a second. But it would strictly be no gifts.

@Allycat11 I used to hate most of them when I was little. Now it's nostalgia hahah.

MamaK225 · March 2019

I hate how much I depend on Amazon, but it is SO convenient. DD1 has been inside brick-and-mortar stores (including grocery) maybe about 10 times in her nearly-3 y.o. lifetime. Mostly because I don't want to deal with all the hauling and lugging of her stuff and dealing with her. Subscribe & Save is over-used in my house and it actually saves me from having to get a Sam's membership. Plus we usually order one or two huge things every year that easily justify the "membership" fees. This year it was DD1's day bed AND two mattresses.

The US definitely need some sort of reform/attention on daycare, *as well as* maternity leave and newborn care. It's just pathetic what we have and most likely why we have some of the worst maternal and infant mortality rates of developed countries. And don't even get me started on the shit stigmas around women who are/have procreated; I swear DH has gotten 3 major pay raises since *I* got pregnant/had a baby while I have to claw and fight every damn ounce to justify my position and hours (I prefer to work 7a-4p, and given that I deal with Europe and Asia often, it makes sense ... since no one else in my department shows up until nearly 9a) - even though I do log in from home some evenings and weekends.

UO: I don't get the point of "babymoons." It's called a vacation (either with or without kids). As pre-parents or parents of other children, you are absolutely entitled to take/have a vacation whenever the hell you want - and really shouldn't have to justify it to others or give it a name.

MamaK225 · March 2019

Oh! Another UO: I have no problem listening to explicit lyrics with my child present. I mean, I'm not going to pick songs that celebrate it (looking at you: Lil' Kim and Eminem), but I don't get a lot of time/space to do things for me or that I like (looking at you: Bubble Guppies and Dora) ... I'm not willing to give it up.

Note: my mother also listened to "current music" as I was growing up and I love that I have memories associated with nearly 5 different decades of music and I'm only in my mid-30s. I also grew up military (she was Army) so swearing wasn't a big deal, though we knew - as children - it was not OK to do so. I'm much more concerned with raising a kind, empathetic human than I am worried she might drop an errant "shit" when she stubs her toe at daycare.

sourlemon · March 2019

@MamaK225 we also dont filter language much when the kids are around, though DH wont let me watch anything with Gordon Ramsey (except Master Chef Junior) while the kids are awake because every other word is a cuss word. But if it comes up a few times in a show or a song, no big deal.

We also stupidly told my DD (almost 5) that "stupid" is a bad word. So now whenever she hears it she tattles/complains. Including at school when it is in a BOOK that the teachers are reading. Her teachers asked us if we told her that it was a bad word and why we thought it was bad because apparently she was creating quite a disturbance on occasion. The reason we told her it was bad is because she said kids were calling one another stupid and she asked what that meant. So we told her it was a bad word and you shouldnt call other kids bad words or mean names. Now we can never use the word for anything! DARN IT!!!!!! We say that stupid word all the time!

goldfishcraker · March 2019

Ooo!! Oo! I have a UO!
Related to the child care...

I think babysitters these days are Charging OUTRAGEOUS prices.
I don't know how bad it is in the states...but here it's absolutely absurd.
I'm sorry..but your 12-17 year old does NOT need to be making $12-20/hour (plus surcharges for extra children, or weekends etc) to play with kids and make sure they don't kill each other or burn the house down. Or..watch TV and eat my food while the kids sleep for the evening!

When I babysat, I got paid an avg of $3/hr. The family that paid me $5/hr made me feel rich! My first real babysitting gig was the summer I was 12. 2 kids. 9am-4pm 3 times a week. I got $15 a day. And I was ecstatic. And I was the sitter who did stuff with the kids. We baked, built forts, played outside, water fights, went to my parents pool etc.
The worst I ever got paid was $0.50/hr for 3 nightmare kids. (I didn't sit for then again after that).
Minimum wage was $6.50 when I started sitting, and $9.50 when I stopped sitting regularly.
I still got about $5/hour. Even as a uni student.

I get that inflation is a thing.
But Our minimum wage is currently $11.35.
And babysitting has not appropriately followed Inflation.
It's basically impossible to find a sitter for less than $12/hr for 1 child.
And that teenager certainly isn't claiming the income on taxes. (Or being taxed!!)
You don't need a living wage from babysitting.

People are expecting more than minimum wage to come sit and watch TV while kids sleep.

Sorry. I told myself I wouldn't rant.
But I ranted. I'll stop now haha.

grangerhp37 · March 2019

@mkrel I agree that daycare *should* be expensive for the services they're offering, and definitely think daycare workers deserve to be paid good money. But I think some sort of solution needs to be figured out, like subsidized costs from the government or even from your employer that make the cost of daycare more reasonable. Especially for employers that are hoping their female employees will return after maternity leave...

We are fortunate that with H's work schedule we only need daycare 2x per week, and we found several places willing to be flexible enough to work with a rotating schedule. But if we needed full time daycare, it would run us about $1800/month. I'm a teacher and H is a paramedic, so that's close to 1/3 of our monthly take-home pay. And that's just for one child! Something's gotta give - and I think the government and/or our employers should be responsible for helping to subsidize the cost.

mkrel · March 2019

@dogmomma096 @cato99 @jmesue1030 I totally get what you're all saying. We both have good jobs, but we basically have a second mortgage in student loan debt so we cannot easily afford daycare, but we also can't afford for me to stay home. I just meant relatively when you break it down per hour what they are getting paid per child, it really isn't "expensive." We have kind of mentally prepared ourselves that once our kids age out of daycare and go to school, we will still need to set aside this money for college, braces, school functions, etc so I have just kind of made peace with the fact that having children is completely financially draining on us for years and years to come.
I have also gotten to know my daughter's teachers very well and I know they are completely underpaid for how great they all are and the amount of work they do. So that also plays a role in me thinking it really isn't expensive. I'm always worried that they'll quit and find something less stressful that pays more, but luckily most of them have stuck around.

peachy0709 · March 2019

@mkrel - Your situation sound exactly like ours. Yay student loans

mkrel · March 2019

@peachy0709 It's so depressing isn't it?! Sometimes we sit around and dream of all the things we could do with that money every month!

mrosek91 · March 2019

@mkrel @peachy0709 you inspired my second UO, maybe this is strongly colored by personal experience, but... Parents who insist or even just encourage their children to go to college/grad school should pay for it.
I know we are incredibly fortunate and in the minority, but both my parent and my in-laws adhere to that philosophy. I have a BA and an MA, and DH has a BA, MA and is working on his PhD, and we have no student loans.
We plan on taking out student loans and paying them ouselves, for our children if/when they decide to go to college, then they won't have any student loans until their kids go to college...

thirdtimesacharm2019 · March 2019

@mrosek91 I think college should be a mutual decision and shared financial responsibility. College isn’t for everyone. We tell our kids you will do something (college, work, militarily) and not hang around our house and be worthless! My dad paid for my bachelors, which I am very grateful for, but I messed around a lot and didn’t apply myself. I paid for my masters and had a 3.9 GPA in a highly ranked business program. I think it’s a great time to reinforce fiscal responsibility.

peachy0709 · March 2019

@mrosek91 - In a similar vein, I think people should be particularly mindful of the debt the incur in undergrad. My college roommate took out a full loan for our college and it's not like I went to an Ivy League school. The ROI would have been so much better for half the cost at a good public university.

I will say in our case DH and I were both fortunate enough to have our undergraduate degrees paid for by our parents, but given that we are currently paying off law school for DH, he would absolutely agree with you and we are currently doing everything in our power to save enough so that if our kids want to go to graduate school, we will provide as much as we humanly can. Paying the equivalent of a healthy mortgage each month has been very challenging and means that I will need to work as well as long as we're paying those loans off (...5 more years...)

mkrel · March 2019

@mrosek91 My parents paid for 95% of my college, but I chose to return to school for an accelerated second degree RN program that was very intensive so I couldn't work, and the program itself was very expensive. My husband's loans are from his masters degree as well. We plan to do everything we can to ensure that our kids don't end up in a ton of student loan debt, but like my situation, there is only so much we can control.

wanderlustsoul · March 2019

Daycare is super expensive here too. €2000/month ($3020) for full time care. But it is subsidized by the government if both parents are working. I think this is amazing. In Toronto (where I am from originally), daycare is about $1500/month, which is good considering how expensive everything else in the city in.

sourlemon · March 2019

I also think parents should save money / pay for college. We started saving money to put into 529s before we were even TTC each kid so that they had a good starting point, and we add money each month to their accounts. My plan is to save enough (or pay the difference) for 4 years at an in state school. But Ill encourage my kids to take classes at the local community college while in HS and transfer the credit. I did that and saved a full year of being in school. Anything beyond undergrad is on the kids to pay for unless they are really good at convincing me...but I think them paying fosters a sense of responsibility that they may not have during undergrad.

I had parents who saved enough for me to complete about 3 years at an in state school (luckily I did one year of credit at the CC) and each of my brothers had enough to complete their degrees (better market returns, I needed the money during the 2008 crash). DH's mom paid for his undergrad. When DH went back for his masters, we paid for it out of pocket. But we made sure we had the money to do it because I did not want to take out student loans. It took us a few years to save up / climb the ladder before he started. He took his masters program much more seriously than his undergrad because he was (we were) paying for it.

WinchesterGirl · March 2019

My UO is that I think saving for your own retirement is more important than putting money aside for your kids college. Ideally you'd do both, but we put far more weight into retirement savings.

There are no "retirement loans" to support you in old age, and putting that burden on our kids is not something I'm ok with.

lilmamabebe3 · March 2019

I totally get that amazon is amazing for stuff you already know you need to buy. And I do love prime streaming. The money is worth it for sure, it’s just not free.

As a marketer, I think their website and emails suck and it’s not a browsing site. Like I can online shop at some retailers but amazon is where I go for something I know I need (diapers, a gift, etc etc). But I guess that’s why they call it an unpopular opinion 🤣

I agree that childcare is expensive for a reason, and paying a nanny I know she needs to make a living wage but I pay her for one full time kid and one part time kid more than our mortgage. I’m not saying she doesn’t deserve it or that she’s overpaid (she’s not) but it sucks to know how much money we would have if we chose not to have children. I don’t regret it at all but childcare is by far our largest expense.

Allycat11 · March 2019

It is highly unlikely that we will pay for our kids to go to college. Honestly we probably will not be able to afford it. My parents paid for me to go to college but I was raised in a family where college was an obligation, not a choice. I did not value my education as much at that point and have never used my degree. In my early to mid 20s, before I decided to leave the traditional workforce, I was making more than most of my friends who were trying to use their degrees. Now I work at home part time doing something I love and definitely don't need a degree to do it.

DH on the other hand was raised in a family where there was no value put on education. His parents did not encourage him to do anything after highschool so he just moved out and got a job, without focusing on his future. He is dyslexic and his parents never got him the help he needed so academically he really struggled. By the time he figured out he wanted an engineering degree we were starting a family and going back to school is near impossible at this point with our situation.

My plan is to encourage my kids to have a plan after graduation. Whether that looks like university, community college, trade school, military or something else to focus on their future, it does not matter to me. I just want them to have some kind of plan and goal in mind.

sourlemon · March 2019

@WinchesterGirl for sure, retirement savings are critical too. We max that out before we do any other budgeting/savings. What you don't see, you don't miss.

peachy0709 · March 2019

@sourlemon @WinchesterGirl @heml @mrosek91 I know we have a budget thread somewhere, but this makes me want a broader discussion on retirement and emergency savings and 529s and all that stuff I obsess over...

This isn't really a UO or a FFC, but I do all the finances for our family (and DH does the cooking, which really really bothers some of our male "friends"). It's actually challenging because I have to be both the spender and the saver and so sometimes I feel really guilty about purchases I need to make.

mrosek91 · March 2019

@peachy0709 That would be interesting, but I don't think I would have much to share. DH takes care of all our finances. Sometimes the independent woman in me feels like I should know more about what's going on with our money. But since I'm an accountant, I spend all day dealing with other people's financial systems, I do not want to think about it when I get home.
DH also does between 75-90% of the cooking depending on the week. I think I really lucked out...

aukeev · March 2019

I'm not sure how I feel about parents paying for college. My family never had any money growing up, so all of the kids paid for school on our own and it was just fine. MH's parents paid for his undergrad, though, and we absolutely appreciated it. I graduated with about $28,000 in loans and MH and I scrimped the first year of marriage (we got married a few months after graduating) and put every possible cent toward my loans and paid them off in a year, even though we were each only making about $30k that first year. I know student loan debt can be crippling, but I also think young adults can learn how to budget better to repay them more quickly.

If parents want to pay for college, that is wonderful. But by no means do I think it's their responsibility (unless it's some weird demand in the family that the children all attend a specific university, or something). I also think trades are still very valuable, and by pushing kids straight to universities, we're going to end up with a shortage of individuals skilled in necessary trades.

ETA: Definitely agree with @WinchesterGirl on retirement savings being more important than college savings.

sourlemon · March 2019

@peachy0709 I also do all the finances. I tell DH what the status is (and tell him to pay bills and when), but I do all the budgeting, saving, investing, forecasting...everything. We each have retirement plans through work and he has control over his, but the only reason he started maxing it out was because I told him to. Otherwise he wouldnt have thought of it.

I find it really funny when I tell DH to go to the store and pick something up and he spends so much more than if I would have gone. Well, not funny, but interesting. He has no idea what things "should cost". Sometimes on the grocery list Ill write the should cost prices next to what I want him to get, so if its significantly more than that, he wont get it. In his defense, he never did grocery shopping alone until this pregnancy since i've been sick a lot more than before. We used to always go together and he never paid attention to prices. Its been quite a learning curve for him!

wanderlustsoul · March 2019

I don’t work (right now) but I control the finances, which I think is both hilarious and great. I give my H a budget even though technically he’s the one earning the money lol. He also does a lot of cooking because I only cook on days I don’t have class since most of my classes are night class. He also does the bulk of cleaning but I do vacuum and mop. It was his idea to let go of our cleaner (which I did support because he did a terrible job and we’ve had a hard time finding a good cleaner while here) so he took on more of the cleaning. I definitely know how lucky I am when I get to go home from class at 10 pm to dinner waiting for me.

sw1122 · March 2019

@sourlemon - haha my husband also spends more than I would on groceries. We go to two grocery stores: one for basic stuff because it's less expensive, and the other for meat/fish/other specific items. He always just goes to the more expensive one for everything and pays so much more for basic things like milk, yogurt, and coffee.

We still keep our finances pretty separate - separate checking accounts, separate credit cards and have one joint savings that we each contribute to monthly and one joint credit card. I know this will get challenging with a child, so we're going to have to figure something out soon. Currently, we're just charging everything to our joint cc and split the payment.

MamaK225 · March 2019

@sw1122 - We do something similar and it really works for us. We have our own accounts and one joint checking + savings account. All household items come out of the joint checking and we put in proportional amounts every month; money is swept out of that account into savings, as well as into DD1's savings & 529, too. We've been together 12 years, married 8, and parents for almost 3. We only started this when the baby was born. We're both the oldest in our families and highly independent, so it's what works well for us.

sw1122 · March 2019

@MamaK225 - Thanks for sharing - I think what we need is a joint checking account to use to pay bills via ACH such as electricity, gas, and cell phones. My husband pays those and he'll 'put it on my tab' and I'll transfer money to him. We've been married for almost 3 years and it's been working fine, but I imagine it'll get annoying once we add in other expenses for the baby, especially when we start daycare.

WinchesterGirl · March 2019

On the men and groceries front, I think my DH is just naturally a spender and not "deal" focused, which just bleeds into the grocery store. He does not usually think "let's try to get the best price" on something, so why would he on groceries which seem to be relatively small and insignificant?

I too am the "finance officer" in our house. But, I really love it. It is practically a hobby for me, optimizing and simulating and thinking up options and whatnot. My DH listens when I give him updates but he is happy to not have to deal with it. He has a retirement account through work but I set it up & researched and picked the investments for him.

I will say, we've been married almost 10 years, and he has come a LONG way. He actively contributes ideas now, and appreciates our progress in the financial arena when in the early days he had no interest and was very flippant. He is truly a sounding board and partner, which he wasn't before. He will never be a "nerd" about it like I am, but I need him to balance me out!

@peachy0709 I am a saver by nature, and also have a lot of guilt when spending anything for myself, even if budgeted. If everyone is amenable, I'll start the April budget thread early and it can be a general finance talk!

MamaK225 · March 2019

@sw1122 - That's what I was more concerned about: picking up a random pack of diapers or having to pay for a new nap mat or a new pack of pacifiers. I mean, it really isn't much, but it can add up. It's reduced the financial resentment over all things "child," though, considering I bear 99% of the household/budget management responsibilities. Just one less thing to *think* about

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