Also: a lot of what I do that I guess I would consider “crunchy” is done becuase I am a wealthy person in a major city and I can. I am aware that the over-the-top products I buy to keep plastic and chemicals away from my kids are an extreme privilege. Even breastfeeding, for me (not for everyone) was significantly more expensive than formula would have been. So I am hesitant to ascribe ethics or “values” to any of it — not that the OP did!
Also, I read Ina May's Guide to Child Birth which I think has some great info but the way she talks about statistics just comes from such an uneducated place and it makes me mad that people are reading this not knowing that this is skewed. Okay, great that women who give birth in your birthing center only have a 2% likelihood of being transferred to a hospital. I bet you severely screen them. I know more than a few people from my last BMB who wanted a home or birth center birth (not attached to a hospital) that were told no because they were too high risk for various reasons. If that was my plan, it would've gone out the window when my water broke because of the meconium.
We cloth diaper, make our own baby food, eat organic as often as possible, we don’t eat store-bought meat products often due to my husband hunting, and I have lavender essential oil on in my bedroom every night. That being said, my children will all be or are fully vaccinated. We have fast food at times. I tried to breastfeed my son, but due to latch and my slow let down, and went to pumping breast milk and formula combo bottles. And lavender is just the most relaxing, gorgeous scent ever, IMO.
I fully believe in the power of science and like @merrylea I’m super cheap and therefore mildly “crunchy”.
Sorry, this is long but relevant. My best friend was a pretty crunchy mom at first. Unmedicated birth, doctor who was homeopathic-friendly, no "chemical" cleaners, cloth diapering, very "clean" eating, her father-in-law is like a local hippie medicine man and always has alternative remedies for everything, etc. She got more and more extreme up until her toddler was diagnosed with cancer... cancer that had been misdiagnosed and dismissed by her crunchy doctor.
Anyway, her daughter went through chemo; it was effective and the cancer has been gone now for a few years. My friend is now a big fan of modern medicine, and is much more skeptical of the whole "natural" lifestyle she bought into before. I will never forget how shortly after chemo ended, she bitterly and matter-of-factly said "I did everything 'right.' Cancer did not care."
@DuchessOfCambridge I just read the article you posted, and I have no words beside WTF. Maybe this comes from DS going to NICU at 38 weeks (which I did not expect at all), but I could not imagine not having experienced medical staff with me delivering my child and making sure he and I had the proper care we needed. He had fluid on his lungs and had they not found it as soon as they did, it could have been fatal. I’m all for the you do you mentality, but things can happen so quickly, and it’s not a risk I’m willing to take.
@brie_and_almonds The story you shared is so similar to a friend of mines. Her and her husband now are hard-core advocates for science breakthroughs for childhood cancers and do a huge amount of fundraising for cancer research.
Wow. That 10 month mama stuff is BS. I definitely lean towards not wanting my baby out until they’re ready. But that is beyond extreme. I mainly read all these posts to check for anti-vaxxers. You all pass so far. Thank you for keeping your babies safe and contributing to the betterment of public health for all those who are immune compromised.
I'd consider myself rather crunchy as our goal is be as self sufficient with our food, power, and water as possible. However, two things I refuse to do, CD because I freaking despise all things laundry and give up proper medical care/logic. Proper medical care can mean a midwife and homebirth as long as it's safe for you and baby.
I will never ever understand putting your baby and yourself at great risk for selfish reasons.
Wife. Boy mom x6. Expecting #7. Wannabe homesteader. , 💙💙💙💙💙💙
If not for medical intervention my beautiful son wouldn’t have drawn his first breath. Team science all the way! Also, when we got the MMR shot for DS he was covered in spots for a couple days. It makes my stomach hurt to imagine what would’ve happened to him if he got the full-blown measles if a deactivated version impacted him that much. We’re so lucky to live in a time where these horrendous diseases can be prevented.
@wishiwaspreggo my husband had pertussis before my 1st was born. Watching him fight and gasp for air was the scariest thing ever. I couldn't imagine how horrible it would be to watch a tiny baby go through that. Vaccinations are so important! For those that get them and for those that can not!
Wife. Boy mom x6. Expecting #7. Wannabe homesteader. , 💙💙💙💙💙💙
I extended breast fed and baby wore, did baby led weaning too. But when it comes to medicine I was induced for severe pre eclampsia and I am thankful everyday that I was strapped to a fetal monitor from the moment I stepped in the hospital. *tw traumatic birth: when they started the pitocin ds1 started having decels every time I had a a tiny contraction. The doctor immediately stopped the induction and I had an emergency c section where they discovered his cord was wrapped twice around his neck. I never even made it to active labor and can’t imagine what would have happened without the close monitoring I had. I am definitely on board with using the tools at our disposal to keep babies and mamas safe.
@megsb615 I’m 100% sure DS wouldn’t be have made it and I wouldn’t have either. I’m so glad I picked a hospital with a level 3 NICU. I had no reason for thinking I’d need it but I liked the security. I haven’t really shared what’s happened with DS so I’ll do that in the spoiler. It might be a TW and Id caution FTMs just because I don’t want to scare them but I’m told it’s pretty rare.
My labor and everything was fine until DS wouldn’t come out and after four hours of pushing we made the call for a csection. That went smoothly, though I was distraught (I really didn’t want surgery) but I was happy to have him in my arms finally. They took him to the normal nursery to check him out when they moved me to my postpartum room and he wasn’t there when I woke up. They told me he was having apneatic spells (not breathing) and further found out that they were seizures and occurring because he’d had a stroke during delivery. We don’t know the exact cause and that’s why im so flip floppy about vbac vs cs for baby 2 but they for sure saved his life! He’s doing well now but has lifelong effects from the stroke - mild cerebral palsy, he isn’t paralyzed but he has extremely limited use of his left arm/hand. He keeps shocking me by meeting almost all the milestones he’s supposed to be! I’ve seen some neurotypical babies fall behind him. We put in a lot of hours of therapy and so far it’s been helping a ton!
But just imagine if I’d tried to have that situation as a homebirth or without medical help. I had no indication I’d have any troubles - I was healthy before pregnancy, 27 when I had him, very smooth pregnancy with no issues at all and yet...? That’s not to say everyone is at risk, I feel like most people have smooth deliveries but why take that chance? I expected a smooth delivery and am sometimes still shocked that’s not what happened.
@DuchessOfCambridge Yes! Same here about being thankful for a hospital with an amazing NICU. I truly believe it saved his life. Had we been in a little small town hospital, we may have had a different outcome. I’ve come to learn that the only thing expected in life is the unexpected. That being said, give me all the medical professionals watching over me and my baby. 😂
Home birth is probably the crunchiest thing I've done. I just want to note, there is a HUGE difference between a home birth with a well trained, accredited, science-minded midwife, and a home birth that is either unattended or attended by a doula or untrained midwife. Midwives are trained to recognize complications well before they happen and make the call to transfer to a hospital. A good one is VERY conservative about this.
@expandcontract this thread DID sit unanswered for a few days. Maybe she got mad that no one was responding to her and never came back? That is the sort of behaviour I would expect from someone who never participates in other threads.
DD1: June 2014 - VBM4lyfe DD2: October 2016 DC3: coming May 2019
@k2k2tog agree! Homebirth is not for me but it can be done in a smart way especially if there are plans in place for emergencies. I wish everyone who wanted one was as educated as you are about all of it
@k2k2tog 100% with what @DuchessOfCambridge said. A home birth wouldn’t be for me, but I think it’s amazing that you researched and went about it with an accredited, trained and science minded midwife.
@k2k2tog thank you for that. Reading through I've been wondering if I'm just better off with a hospital birth. I still am not entirely sure what I'll do, it's difficult to feel like I'm making the right decision 100% either way.
@eatinwatermelonseeds have you talked with your midwife about it? They will look at all your risk factors as well as things like the suitability of your home (proximity to the hospital, ease of transfer via ambulance, etc.) and give you a personalized recommendation. They should also tell you about many of the things that could go wrong and their process and procedures for dealing with those complications. It's a bit easier to make a decision from there.
I did have one risk that I was nervous about. I had a 4th degree tear with my first, so I talked a lot with my midwife about what the likelihood was of that happening again. But, we live literally 5 minutes from the hospital, so judging all the risks, I knew we could get there quickly if needed.
In the end, I DID require transfer to the hospital (I retained my placenta and hemorrhaged), but because of the processes they had in place, I was safely transferred to the hospital and the care of an OB well before there was any danger to my life. The hospital experience was kind of traumatic, but I still love my birth experience. I'm always happy to talk more about it either here or dms!
DD1: June 2014 - VBM4lyfe DD2: October 2016 DC3: coming May 2019
@DuchessOfCambridge I just read the article. Although I totally disagree with that woman’s choices and agree that she seems to have caused the death of her baby, the article itself disgusted me as much as the woman’s choices! Holy blanket statements! Of course if you hold up the most extreme of examples of homebirthing, it seems selfish and dangerous! I had a homebirth myself- I had 0 risk factors and a textbook pregnancy, and if at any point that would have changed, my midwife would have told me I need to do a hospital birth.
The website that article was on appeared to be pro c-section for ALL women, and anti-breastfeeding? C’mon, that’s just as ridiculous as a woman who goes blindly to 10 weeks of pregnancy with no prenatal care.
@siouxieq87 Skeptical OB is definitely harsh in how she writes and sometimes she makes me wince with her articles. They can be insulting. She has no tolerance for people who refuse medicine and are uneducated about it, that’s who she’s targeting, not women like you and @k2k2tog who know the risks, are working with medical professionals, and have emergency plans in place. Though I do think she scoffs at homebirths in general. She’s not actually pro cs and anti breastfeeding, she’s more pro not scaring women and telling them they’re bad moms if they have a cs or if they need to use formula. A lot of what’s out there pushes and shames women to breastfeed and have vaginal births to the point where women are killing themselves over these things and it’s contributing to PPD. I don’t think she handles it well but I do think the overall message is good. She’s 100% science based and fights to make sure facts are accurately represented.
That being said, I would never have her as my OB. I don’t think she’d be respectful unless I meekly went along with everything she said. Mine is very caring and understanding and supportive of whatever I choose, she just likes me to have all the information I can. A VBAC was her idea!
@DuchessOfCambridge That is a very unique situation, indeed, that you and your son were in. Im curious, before the decision for CS, did the doctor attempt suction or forceps at all? That's a very long time that you pushed! I pushed for 2 hours and ended up needing suction. They say that later deliveries are usually easier to push.
@expandcontract@DuchessOfCambridge the nurse told me 2-4 hours of pushing was normal for a FTM but definitely generally accepted to be faster in subsequent births.
@DuchessOfCambridge@siouxieq87 The tone of the article definitely made me turn off a bit at what she was saying. It's very clear she has a bias (like in Ina May's Guide to Child Birth that I mentioned above) which just makes me take things with a grain of salt. I don't want a home birth for myself personally so I haven't asked my doctor about it but I would not be surprised if many OBs were against home births. I have a stupidly small sample size but just knowing the my mom's 3 births and my one so far all would have needed medical intervention to save our babies' lives makes me prefer to just already be at the hospital but @k2k2tog's story is a great success one where she got the birth she wanted and (unfortunately but safely) was transferred due to the medical knowledge of her midwife(s).
@expandcontract they mentioned both as a possibility but DS didn’t make it far enough out. He couldn’t get out from under my pubic bone and had a big laceration on his forehead just from me pushing and him rubbing against it. They actually pulled him out breech during my section. Not far enough out to do vacuum or forceps, but too far to not be pulled out by his feet haha. I’m glad it worked this way because I think the suction or forceps would have caused even more damage.
@kvh22 I think you're definitely right about OBs. I switched to a midwife halfway through my last pregnancy because we were moving, and when I told my OB that I had managed to get into the midwifery practice she said something like, "That's great, midwives are wonderful, but whatever you do, don't do a home birth. You really don't want a home birth." And then I went on to have a home birth. lol
DD1: June 2014 - VBM4lyfe DD2: October 2016 DC3: coming May 2019
@DuchessOfCambridge OMG OUCH to you and your son! That is a really good thing they didn't try those methods. Hmmmm this is making me think that I should specify with my OB that if God forbid, I should have to push for that long again, to give me a CS. But that's a long way down the road, still.
@expandcontract a big reason of why I've been hesitant to share my story is because I don't want to sway people! What happened to us is definitely a possibility but it's not very likely at all. Plus we're not sure that's why it happened, there were a ton of things that went on. He hit bone which can cause brain injury, his heart rate dropped, which can cause brain injury, and a bunch of other factors. We can't pinpoint one cause which is a big reason my OB thinks I can have a VBAC because we can't confirm bone was the issue. The video below shares numerous reasons why this can occur, it's really long though so I don't expect you to watch it
TL;DR - my main point is, don't let me scare you into a CS. Women have pushed longer than me and had totally healthy babies (I was explicitly told this by my OB). But if you think a CS is right for you then it's definitely something to think about. My low bone is my main cause for concern and why I'm glad they didn't do forceps/vacuum. My TL;DR was really long too, sorry
@DuchessOfCambridge ooooh i see. No, that makes sense. I mean, I would totally have a complete conversation with my OB before deciding anything. But it is good to know! Thank you so much for clarifying that!
Well, this is a new term to me. However, my current birth plan is to do a water birth, at a hospital, breastfeeding as long as possible, wearing my baby, and making my own baby food when we can start solids. However, I am all for fetal monitoring, ultrasounds, doppler use, and blood tests to make sure everything is going the way it needs to be!
Re: Where my crunchy moms at
I fully believe in the power of science and like @merrylea I’m super cheap and therefore mildly “crunchy”.
Anyway, her daughter went through chemo; it was effective and the cancer has been gone now for a few years. My friend is now a big fan of modern medicine, and is much more skeptical of the whole "natural" lifestyle she bought into before. I will never forget how shortly after chemo ended, she bitterly and matter-of-factly said "I did everything 'right.' Cancer did not care."
BFP: 8/20/2018 - EDD 5/4/2019
I will never ever understand putting your baby and yourself at great risk for selfish reasons.
, 💙💙💙💙💙💙
, 💙💙💙💙💙💙
Please, carry on!
But just imagine if I’d tried to have that situation as a homebirth or without medical help. I had no indication I’d have any troubles - I was healthy before pregnancy, 27 when I had him, very smooth pregnancy with no issues at all and yet...? That’s not to say everyone is at risk, I feel like most people have smooth deliveries but why take that chance? I expected a smooth delivery and am sometimes still shocked that’s not what happened.
Home birth is probably the crunchiest thing I've done. I just want to note, there is a HUGE difference between a home birth with a well trained, accredited, science-minded midwife, and a home birth that is either unattended or attended by a doula or untrained midwife. Midwives are trained to recognize complications well before they happen and make the call to transfer to a hospital. A good one is VERY conservative about this.
@expandcontract this thread DID sit unanswered for a few days. Maybe she got mad that no one was responding to her and never came back? That is the sort of behaviour I would expect from someone who never participates in other threads.
DD1: June 2014 - VBM4lyfe
DD2: October 2016
DC3: coming May 2019
@expandcontract I noticed that also....*insert eyeroll here*
@eatinwatermelonseeds have you talked with your midwife about it? They will look at all your risk factors as well as things like the suitability of your home (proximity to the hospital, ease of transfer via ambulance, etc.) and give you a personalized recommendation. They should also tell you about many of the things that could go wrong and their process and procedures for dealing with those complications. It's a bit easier to make a decision from there.
I did have one risk that I was nervous about. I had a 4th degree tear with my first, so I talked a lot with my midwife about what the likelihood was of that happening again. But, we live literally 5 minutes from the hospital, so judging all the risks, I knew we could get there quickly if needed.
In the end, I DID require transfer to the hospital (I retained my placenta and hemorrhaged), but because of the processes they had in place, I was safely transferred to the hospital and the care of an OB well before there was any danger to my life. The hospital experience was kind of traumatic, but I still love my birth experience. I'm always happy to talk more about it either here or dms!
DD1: June 2014 - VBM4lyfe
DD2: October 2016
DC3: coming May 2019
The website that article was on appeared to be pro c-section for ALL women, and anti-breastfeeding? C’mon, that’s just as ridiculous as a woman who goes blindly to 10 weeks of pregnancy with no prenatal care.
That being said, I would never have her as my OB. I don’t think she’d be respectful unless I meekly went along with everything she said. Mine is very caring and understanding and supportive of whatever I choose, she just likes me to have all the information I can. A VBAC was her idea!
I pushed for 2 hours and ended up needing suction. They say that later deliveries are usually easier to push.
@DuchessOfCambridge @siouxieq87 The tone of the article definitely made me turn off a bit at what she was saying. It's very clear she has a bias (like in Ina May's Guide to Child Birth that I mentioned above) which just makes me take things with a grain of salt. I don't want a home birth for myself personally so I haven't asked my doctor about it but I would not be surprised if many OBs were against home births. I have a stupidly small sample size but just knowing the my mom's 3 births and my one so far all would have needed medical intervention to save our babies' lives makes me prefer to just already be at the hospital but @k2k2tog's story is a great success one where she got the birth she wanted and (unfortunately but safely) was transferred due to the medical knowledge of her midwife(s).
DD1: June 2014 - VBM4lyfe
DD2: October 2016
DC3: coming May 2019
Hmmmm this is making me think that I should specify with my OB that if God forbid, I should have to push for that long again, to give me a CS. But that's a long way down the road, still.
https://www.facebook.com/BostonChildrensHospital/videos/278301559466231/
TL;DR - my main point is, don't let me scare you into a CS. Women have pushed longer than me and had totally healthy babies (I was explicitly told this by my OB). But if you think a CS is right for you then it's definitely something to think about. My low bone is my main cause for concern and why I'm glad they didn't do forceps/vacuum. My TL;DR was really long too, sorry