I think the fact that tipping has to exist is absurd. I wish people were just paid reasonable salaries and jobs treated like careers by management. I'd rather pay more for my food/whatever upfront.
@doxiemoxie212 it makes me so angry that there’s a spot to tip for a to go order (I get it’s the same general receipt, but whatever). It makes me more angry when they stand there and watch me fill it out and sign it. You put my food in a bag bro. You’d be lucky to get a dollar IF I were leaving you a tip.
I don't like the whole frazzled mommy, I don't wear makeup because I have kids persona. I think women use their kids as an excuse for not taking time for themselves. Now if you just don't want to wear make up or do your hair, that's fine. Just don't use your kids as the reason you're not. If it is something that you value for yourself then you will make the time to do it. I feel like mom's are made to feel guilty for taking the time to spend on themselves and super mom hasn't showered or changed out of sweats or put on make up in 4 days.
*TW LC*
Me & MH: 32 DS: 6/1/18 (Pre-E; IUGR; seizures; NICU) TTC #2: 12/2019 Sept 2020: HSG possible blocked right tube Nov 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFN Dec 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFP!!! EDD 9/18
@boymama29, ever think that maybe they are watching because they’re making sure you actually sign it and don’t take it with you? I’m currently working in a register position and I do watch people fill out the slip because a) lots of people forget to sign and b) lots of people try to take it with them when I need that copy. It’s certainly not so I can judge whether you leave a tip or not. We are currently living in England and tipping is not really a thing here. I know it’s appreciated but definitely not expected or required for servers to make minimum wage.
My UO is that while I love living here in England, I wish I was back in the states at time. It would make the whole pregnancy and shopping for baby gear thing much easier.
Me: 27 DH: 27 Married 6/15/13 BFP #1 5/8/16, EDD 12/31/16- DD born 9/10/16 at 24 weeks ~In our hearts forever~ BFP #2 10/14/17, EDD 7/1/18
The tipping/no tipping thing is really interesting. Danny Meyer and a few other restaurateurs have opened non-tipping restaurants in the city. MH and I thought it was a great idea at first, but now we avoid them like the plague. No matter how good the food is, the service almost always suffers. We found this to be especially bad at Maialino (a lauded NYC restaurant that we live right next to and would likely go to often, if service wasn't so atrocious) and Nishi (a David Chang restaurant, that I think has gone back to tipping).
However, I agree that servers should be paid a living wage, whether tipping is involved or not.
@profmcgonagall I defintely get where you’re coming from. But I think it defintely depends on the person who is working. Ive has people scowl as I write zero and I’ve had people who are just waiting but awkwardly looking away, but making sure you give the signed copy (if that makes sense.)
@LaceyBee522, I think the no tipping thing works better over here because it’s a whole different kind of service. Servers don’t check on tables as frequently and provide as high of service as they do in the states. In a lot of restaurants, you order at the bar and the server brings your drinks and food. Usually you have to go back to the bar for your own refill as they don’t come around and check on you. It’s much more relaxed plus they have always known they are getting paid the same amount no matter what.
Me: 27 DH: 27 Married 6/15/13 BFP #1 5/8/16, EDD 12/31/16- DD born 9/10/16 at 24 weeks ~In our hearts forever~ BFP #2 10/14/17, EDD 7/1/18
@LaceyBee522 yeah, the service at Nishi sucks, but the food is yum! DH is pretty adamant about supporting restaurants that provide living wages instead of tipping, but IDK. It's just such a weird concept because it's not like you get a tip if you work in a clothing store or in an office? I know there are commission options, but I've never encountered those when I worked retail. It's so strange that it should actually affect anyone's job.
@boymama29 the issue is that even in those jobs you're talking about, those people are making probably $2/hour, so without the tips it's almost as if they shouldn't have bothered even coming in. I usually try to tip at least $1 because I know it's such a huge percent of what their take home pay will be. I wish that weren't the case, though.
@profmcgonagall Totally agree with you! Outside the US is a whole other ball of wax!
@doxiemoxie212 A lot of my family works in the food industry so these discussions are pretty popular. Most are back of house now, but spent a lot of time as servers. Most (not all, of course) prefer tipping because they actually make more money. When Union Square Cafe went to no the long-time servers were pissed because they took a huge pay cut. There was an article in The New Yorker (I think) and they interviewed one of the servers who had to leave because his annual income was virtually cut in half when he was forced to take a salary and lost his tips. I'm not sure there's one correct answer, especially because there are a lot of shady employers and managers who skim or even take servers' tips, but I have no problem tipping - especially if it improves the service I receive.
@doxiemoxie212 Nordstrom is commission based and you can definitely tell. In fact I think probably most higher end department stores are commission and they definitely have a higher level of service than like JC Penny or Kohl's.
I'm on the fence regarding this. I definitely think servers or food service works deserve a livable wage but I know places like Panera have a tip spot now and I don't really think they have provided any service above and beyond. However, I have dined at some restaurants where they have definitely deserved a tip. I think part of the problem is that most restaurants use tip share for their credit card tips so there's not much incentive for a server to be better because they know any tip you give them is going to be split so you're getting poor service and expected to tip 20%. I think I would like to see tipping gone as an expectation and servers paid a livable wage and when they do in fact go above and beyond I would still leave them a tip.
*TW LC*
Me & MH: 32 DS: 6/1/18 (Pre-E; IUGR; seizures; NICU) TTC #2: 12/2019 Sept 2020: HSG possible blocked right tube Nov 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFN Dec 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFP!!! EDD 9/18
@LaceyBee522 yeah, I hate that there's a paycut involved in it. I don't think that should be the case. I think it should be a career that the company finds valuable enough to pay a high salary. Like, it's the consumers who are paying for the tips. I know that it doesn't seem to work in reality (for a variety of reasons), but it's insane to me that food prices can't just be raised. Like, we're all paying the same amount anyway. But the tipping thing bothers me less in high-end restaurants because I feel like those servers tend to make bank. It bothers me more in like diners or more fast casual spots where the servers are still paid nothing in salary and rely on tips. For instance, at least Starbucks pays a pretty solid hourly rate and health benefits. I just think that should be more common across the board.
@krashke yes, completely agree. Like, pay a livable wage and then if you go above and beyond you get extra.
And re: Nordstrom, from what I understand, you get a pretty solid hourly wage there, and then if you meet a sales target you get a commission. So it's sort of what you mentioned re: food service. They have a really good, livable wage, so even if there are circumstances beyond their control, they can still pay rent and eat, but if they go above and beyond, they also get more. I think that is fair and reasonable of employers, and good incentive for employees. Good balance.
@doxiemoxie212 I worked at Norstrom in college and while that is true we had a wage of $8 ish/hr and if you didn't get enough in sales to equal that with your commission then you at least got that. I was in kid's shoes which was the highest commissioned department because we had the lowest sales so we made 14%. However, any return you get gets taken out of your commission which doesn't get factored into the per hour rate. Like you made enough sales to get 14% but after returns you have nothing but that doesn't switch it over to the hourly rate. So you would do really well in November and December and then get nothing in January because of the returns. I would also say that if you're not a college student $8/hr isn't a livable wage. That may have changed since then and it probably differs with your experience but I doubt it would ever be significant enough for a single mother.
But none of this is to bash on Nordstrom because I love them and I always made bank there but it does take a type of person to be successful.
ETA Nordstom also doesn't have a return policy in that you can return anything at any time for any reason which is great for customer service but it sucked in kids shoes because parents would buy their kids shoes and then 5 months later come back and be like "its ripping here and falling apart" no you're kid is just a kid and their shoes wear out quickly and they grow out of the them quickly. But we had to take their return. We had a shit list of people who did this and when they would come in we would all avoid selling to them.
*TW LC*
Me & MH: 32 DS: 6/1/18 (Pre-E; IUGR; seizures; NICU) TTC #2: 12/2019 Sept 2020: HSG possible blocked right tube Nov 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFN Dec 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFP!!! EDD 9/18
@krashke we're the same age, I thought maybe it would've been longer ago, but must just be location related? I've never worked at Nordstrom, but all my friends who worked there in college made at least $12/hr, most $15/hr. I was so jealous they made so much more per hour than I did! And they all lived at home. It was such a great deal for them, especially 10 years ago. But yeah, I get what you're saying re: returns. Nordstrom does have an amazing return policy, which is one of the reasons I love shopping there, but I know it can screw with the commission side of things.
@doxiemoxie212 It definitely must have been location based. Midwest vs Cali/NYC. But I also never actually made my hour wage so on commission it was probably $14-15/hour which was definitely better than any other retail job I've had.
*TW LC*
Me & MH: 32 DS: 6/1/18 (Pre-E; IUGR; seizures; NICU) TTC #2: 12/2019 Sept 2020: HSG possible blocked right tube Nov 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFN Dec 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFP!!! EDD 9/18
The tipping thing for to-go orders was a big conversation between some of my fb friends several years ago, and until then I'd honestly never thought about it. Here's the original post (it was surprising how it took me less than two minutes to find it considering how long ago it was):
She clarifies later in the comment thread that even a dollar is something to someone who's working for $2 an hour or less and taking time to make up your order for you when they could be spending time better making tips face to face with people who came to sit down and dine.
I kind of see both sides of the argument myself, but her post has given me pause since she shared it and I think about it when conversations like these come up. I can count on one hand the times I've opted for take-out this year, for example, so I'm not presented with his conundrum often, but I will admit I see her point. There's also something to be said for the server that makes a point to have included things like napkins, requested condiments, and utensils without having been asked versus the one who gives you your food in the bag and nothing else.
Also, when I was fifteen I worked at Fazoli's, which is a format very similar to Panera Bread's. When you're assigned the dining area, you're definitely working pretty hard, BUT I was paid what was minimum wage for that job at the time. So tipping was definitely not required. That said, retail is just a woefully underpaid industry. The Panera and Starbucks near me have tip jars that say something like "Tips are not expected but always appreciated." I don't usually carry cash on me, but if I have some to offer, I don't mind giving them a little something, especially if people are going above and beyond.
@krashke, yeah this was outside SF. Also these were summer jobs pre-2008, so that might be part of it? My friends were definitely not great sales associates, so I think they mostly made the hourly rate except for a few who worked in the shoe dept (one guy I know was definitely making more like $25/hr with his commissions which is amazing for a 20-year-old). Apparently shoes are the place to be!
@doxiemoxie212 women's shoes was like THE department! We would be helping a whole family sometimes so after the kids were done I would take them down to women's shoes and help them and the sales people there would get pissed. Especially because no matter what I sold I would still make my 14% where's they would only get like 9%. It was cut throat.
*TW LC*
Me & MH: 32 DS: 6/1/18 (Pre-E; IUGR; seizures; NICU) TTC #2: 12/2019 Sept 2020: HSG possible blocked right tube Nov 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFN Dec 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFP!!! EDD 9/18
I was a server for 5 years and never expected tips on to go orders. Sure I spent some time putting it together but not enough that I think I deserve a tip. The only exception is very large orders or catering orders. I don't tip for to go orders.
I’ve worked in food service or food service admin my whole working life (14 years). Tipping is weird but usually pays way more than kitchen/lower level management. I agree their base wage should be higher though. They spend a fair amount of time doing side work basically for free.
I rarely tip on to-go orders but I probably should.
I don't like the whole frazzled mommy, I don't wear makeup because I have kids persona. I think women use their kids as an excuse for not taking time for themselves. Now if you just don't want to wear make up or do your hair, that's fine. Just don't use your kids as the reason you're not. If it is something that you value for yourself then you will make the time to do it. I feel like mom's are made to feel guilty for taking the time to spend on themselves and super mom hasn't showered or changed out of sweats or put on make up in 4 days.
I have zero guilt about taking time to myself and I don't think being a hot mess is a badge of honor. But, the reality is that having small children makes it a lot harder to get yourself ready in the morning and plan a cute outfit. I don't feel kids are an excuse, they are a reality. Depending on the ages of your kids, some moms are just in a season of survival so self-care and personal presentation fall to the wayside. It can be an uphill battle these days just to get out the door with everyone's shoes on. When my babies were still nursing frequently it was a battle to get out the door with baby nursed and freshly diapered, bag packed, errand planned within nap time schedule, etc. By the time I had everything ready baby would need to nurse again. Babies and toddlers are very needy. It's just the reality.
I value make-up and pretty hair but I also value fresh air, outings, and adult conversation at the playground. Sometimes I twist my hair in a messy bun and throw a sweatshirt over the leggings I slept in so I can get my kids out of the house to play at the park because they're driving me nuts and I need some adult conversation.
Sometimes I skip hair and make up because I'm focused on packing snacks and toys so my kids don't have a melt down at Costco.
I want to wear make up. I'd just rather have goldfish than a fresh face when s@#$ hits the fan in the checkout aisle.
Tipping: In college I started as a hostess at a restaurant, moved up to to-go orders, and then eventually became a server. When I did to-go, we were still obligated to "tip out / tip share" the hostesses, expos, and other kitchen staff at the end of the night. This means that no matter what I made in tips, I had to tip out a certain percentage of that night's sales out of my tips. So if I did not get tips, I paid out of pocket for the tip share.
I TOTALLY see the argument that it is annoying to have to tip to-go people, and I still wish I didn't have to, but the fact of the matter is that you sorta have to in order to make it fair for the to-go person (at least in some cases).
I think it definitely depends what industry your background and experiences was in because I have mad compassion for servers, but I never worked in retail so I don't give a flying ISH when I return something at Nordstrom!
Re: UO - 11/30
DS: 6/1/18 (Pre-E; IUGR; seizures; NICU)
TTC #2: 12/2019
Sept 2020: HSG possible blocked right tube
Nov 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFN
Dec 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFP!!! EDD 9/18
I’m currently working in a register position and I do watch people fill out the slip because
a) lots of people forget to sign and b) lots of people try to take it with them when I need that copy. It’s certainly not so I can judge whether you leave a tip or not.
We are currently living in England and tipping is not really a thing here. I know it’s appreciated but definitely not expected or required for servers to make minimum wage.
My UO is that while I love living here in England, I wish I was back in the states at time. It would make the whole pregnancy and shopping for baby gear thing much easier.
Married 6/15/13
BFP #1 5/8/16, EDD 12/31/16- DD born 9/10/16 at 24 weeks
~In our hearts forever~
BFP #2 10/14/17, EDD 7/1/18
However, I agree that servers should be paid a living wage, whether tipping is involved or not.
Married 6/15/13
BFP #1 5/8/16, EDD 12/31/16- DD born 9/10/16 at 24 weeks
~In our hearts forever~
BFP #2 10/14/17, EDD 7/1/18
@boymama29 the issue is that even in those jobs you're talking about, those people are making probably $2/hour, so without the tips it's almost as if they shouldn't have bothered even coming in. I usually try to tip at least $1 because I know it's such a huge percent of what their take home pay will be. I wish that weren't the case, though.
@doxiemoxie212 A lot of my family works in the food industry so these discussions are pretty popular. Most are back of house now, but spent a lot of time as servers. Most (not all, of course) prefer tipping because they actually make more money. When Union Square Cafe went to no the long-time servers were pissed because they took a huge pay cut. There was an article in The New Yorker (I think) and they interviewed one of the servers who had to leave because his annual income was virtually cut in half when he was forced to take a salary and lost his tips. I'm not sure there's one correct answer, especially because there are a lot of shady employers and managers who skim or even take servers' tips, but I have no problem tipping - especially if it improves the service I receive.
I'm on the fence regarding this. I definitely think servers or food service works deserve a livable wage but I know places like Panera have a tip spot now and I don't really think they have provided any service above and beyond. However, I have dined at some restaurants where they have definitely deserved a tip. I think part of the problem is that most restaurants use tip share for their credit card tips so there's not much incentive for a server to be better because they know any tip you give them is going to be split so you're getting poor service and expected to tip 20%. I think I would like to see tipping gone as an expectation and servers paid a livable wage and when they do in fact go above and beyond I would still leave them a tip.
DS: 6/1/18 (Pre-E; IUGR; seizures; NICU)
TTC #2: 12/2019
Sept 2020: HSG possible blocked right tube
Nov 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFN
Dec 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFP!!! EDD 9/18
And re: Nordstrom, from what I understand, you get a pretty solid hourly wage there, and then if you meet a sales target you get a commission. So it's sort of what you mentioned re: food service. They have a really good, livable wage, so even if there are circumstances beyond their control, they can still pay rent and eat, but if they go above and beyond, they also get more. I think that is fair and reasonable of employers, and good incentive for employees. Good balance.
But none of this is to bash on Nordstrom because I love them and I always made bank there but it does take a type of person to be successful.
ETA Nordstom also doesn't have a return policy in that you can return anything at any time for any reason which is great for customer service but it sucked in kids shoes because parents would buy their kids shoes and then 5 months later come back and be like "its ripping here and falling apart" no you're kid is just a kid and their shoes wear out quickly and they grow out of the them quickly. But we had to take their return. We had a shit list of people who did this and when they would come in we would all avoid selling to them.
DS: 6/1/18 (Pre-E; IUGR; seizures; NICU)
TTC #2: 12/2019
Sept 2020: HSG possible blocked right tube
Nov 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFN
Dec 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFP!!! EDD 9/18
DS: 6/1/18 (Pre-E; IUGR; seizures; NICU)
TTC #2: 12/2019
Sept 2020: HSG possible blocked right tube
Nov 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFN
Dec 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFP!!! EDD 9/18
She clarifies later in the comment thread that even a dollar is something to someone who's working for $2 an hour or less and taking time to make up your order for you when they could be spending time better making tips face to face with people who came to sit down and dine.
I kind of see both sides of the argument myself, but her post has given me pause since she shared it and I think about it when conversations like these come up. I can count on one hand the times I've opted for take-out this year, for example, so I'm not presented with his conundrum often, but I will admit I see her point. There's also something to be said for the server that makes a point to have included things like napkins, requested condiments, and utensils without having been asked versus the one who gives you your food in the bag and nothing else.
Also, when I was fifteen I worked at Fazoli's, which is a format very similar to Panera Bread's. When you're assigned the dining area, you're definitely working pretty hard, BUT I was paid what was minimum wage for that job at the time. So tipping was definitely not required. That said, retail is just a woefully underpaid industry. The Panera and Starbucks near me have tip jars that say something like "Tips are not expected but always appreciated." I don't usually carry cash on me, but if I have some to offer, I don't mind giving them a little something, especially if people are going above and beyond.
DS: 6/1/18 (Pre-E; IUGR; seizures; NICU)
TTC #2: 12/2019
Sept 2020: HSG possible blocked right tube
Nov 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFN
Dec 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFP!!! EDD 9/18
I rarely tip on to-go orders but I probably should.
I value make-up and pretty hair but I also value fresh air, outings, and adult conversation at the playground. Sometimes I twist my hair in a messy bun and throw a sweatshirt over the leggings I slept in so I can get my kids out of the house to play at the park because they're driving me nuts and I need some adult conversation.
Sometimes I skip hair and make up because I'm focused on packing snacks and toys so my kids don't have a melt down at Costco.
I want to wear make up. I'd just rather have goldfish than a fresh face when s@#$ hits the fan in the checkout aisle.
I TOTALLY see the argument that it is annoying to have to tip to-go people, and I still wish I didn't have to, but the fact of the matter is that you sorta have to in order to make it fair for the to-go person (at least in some cases).
I think it definitely depends what industry your background and experiences was in because I have mad compassion for servers, but I never worked in retail so I don't give a flying ISH when I return something at Nordstrom!