UO Thursday 10/5

MJDsquared · October 2017

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It's here for real this time!!!

failuretofly · October 2017

Inspired by a Scary Mommy article on my FB feed this morning:

I think it's totally fine to leave your baby/kid in the car for 3-5 minutes while you run in to a store/business to quickly grab a cup of coffee etc as long as you've taken all necessary steps to ensure their safety (locked doors, car not running, mild temperatures etc).

It makes me ragey that this world has devolved to 'call the cops' instead of just talking to each other like normal human beings.

elev2017 · October 2017

@failuretofly I 100% agree. The constant barrage of terrible stories via the news and social media make us think the world is a lot more dangerous than it actually is.

Marley629 · October 2017

@failuretofly I agree as well; I felt so much guilt last week running into thE ATM with my 4 year old in the car in the rain - and I could see the car the whole time, it wasn't more than 20 feet away and I still felt like I was being judged. I shouldn't have felt that way

flowerpower5838 · October 2017

failuretofly Saw that as well and 100% agree. There have been a handful of times that I want to leave DS in the car, but I don't - not because I think it isn't safe for him, but because I don't want to deal with "good Samaritans"

I can't think of anything of my own at the moment, but I'm sure I'll think of something today haha. I'll be back.

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MJDsquared · October 2017

I agree with the car thing. I'll probably never leave baby in the car for the same reason as @flowerpower5838 (aside from examples like @Marley629 gave with the ATM). I probably wouldn't even be comfortable leaving my dogs in the car for five minutes in the dead of winter with cracked windows because I fear someone breaking my window or something because people are insane.

My UO (which I know has been hit before but I couldn't weigh in because I hadn't experienced it yet): I kinda liked the Glucola. I had orange, and I'd say it wasn't as good as orange Fanta or Sunkist or whatever, but I liked it better than I ever liked the orange Hi-C stuff they had at McDonald's.

whiska · October 2017

@failuretofly Totally agree. Also, I was left alone in the car A LOT as a child. Any time my parents ran into the gas station to pay or get something they didn't bother bringing me inside. They were fastidious about locking the doors and making sure I also checked to make sure the doors were locked, and we also had talks about what I should do if someone tried to get in the car or bother me. Even from age 4 I remember this.

elev2017 · October 2017

@whiska Same here! My mom left us in the car all the time!

kyrwyn · October 2017

@failuretofly +1 to left (safely) in the car. We also walked to school, were latchkey kids in jr. high and allowed free roam of the neighborhood (within some generous boundaries) on our bikes once we'd proven some basic safety/awareness competencies. The amount of freedom we had a kids to explore our environment was huge compared to today's parenting paradigm, and I imagine it gave my mom a lot of freedom, too!

kickball7091 · October 2017

I've already started thinking about this topic in terms of daycare pickups while I'm on maternity leave. My initial thought was that if the baby was sleeping, I'd just leave her in her car seat while I run into the daycare (3 minutes, tops). It's a home daycare on a dead end street, and to me this makes more sense than pulling her out of a warm car for a 30 foot walk to the door. But I'm afraid the other parents would judge me. Maybe I'll just ask the provider what other people do. Weird that I'm already thinking about it though.

peachy13 · October 2017

I am on board with leaving your kid in the car for a few minutes but probably wouldn't do it just to avoid people getting the wrong idea and acting like idiots as a result.

My UO is that sometimes I feel like there is too much information given to us as expecting moms. Decisions to make, rules to follow, and suggestions for caring for a newborn. And there is so much information that there doesn't seem to be a clear path on what to do because there are like 900 different experts out there all saying different things about one topic. Then you have your mom, SIL, friends, boss, everyone you know all saying different things. It's pretty annoying and honestly at this point in the game I'm not interested in reading articles online or taking a class... I just want to have a healthy baby and go from there and figure it out with DH, just like what everyone else in history has done before without studying the AAP website and doctor office brochures.

failuretofly · October 2017

@whiska my dad would leave us in the car for upwards of an hour to go grocery shopping!

without so much as a 'hey keep the doors locked' or anything...
I mean... That's a little much lol. But I'm down for an ATM trip or what not.
@kickball7091 good point! I hadn't even thought of that! Oi... I bet our parents never thought twice about it.

Also... I have another one that is bound to come up after the babies come...

I am 100% against 'cry it out' and believe it is bordering on abuse/neglect to do so, in the traditional sense, where you put baby in the crib, close the door and don't return until morning.

elev2017 · October 2017

@failuretofly I also agree with you on that traditional method of cry it out being neglectful, and from what I've read, psychologically damaging. We do plan to use "the pause" as explained in "Bringing Up Bebe" and likely other parenting books, where you wait for 5 to 10 minutes to see if the baby will calm down on their own, but then you go to the baby after that.

tamaraaaa · October 2017

Tinted windows and auto locks are my friend. My 3 year old doesn't need to get out of her carseat for me to drop a piece of mail in the box or something stupid.

My general policy is if I can see the car and it's super fast it's fine.

Amber_Waves · October 2017

If I wasn't already set on cloth diapers, I would be after reading the STM/FTM comments on which disposable brands have the most/least offensive scents.

kaylawing · October 2017

@failuretofly I’m with you on the cry it out thing. I cringe when I read that as advice to moms who are tired/have babies going through very NORMAL sleep patterns.

My UO is boring but with Pumpkin Spice everything, it’s been on my mind. I don’t like Starbucks. I go sometimes because they have a drive through, but it’s so expensive and not that great In terms of taste.

blueskies17 · October 2017

@kaylawing agree- Starbucks is overrated.
@failuretofly my DH's coworker recommended a parenting book that encourages parents to let 8 week olds cry it out (without so much as a check in) for 12 hours a night. Veto!

Edited: 8 week olds, not 3 month olds O_O

skc040512 · October 2017

As to the cry it out method, having researched ways to get your kid to sleep extensively, you really don't find anyone telling you to just close the door and leave the kid screaming until morning. The actual method is to put them down, let them cry for 5 minutes if they're hysterical, go in and comfort them without picking them up and repeat until they calm down, while gradually increasing the time you leave them alone. Anyone telling you just to completely ignore your kid apparently read the name of the method and made up their own strategy lol.

My UO I guess is that I will totally let DD cry it out. She knows when it's nap time but will sometimes scream for 30+ minutes because she's mad at me. I keep am eye on her via the video monitor and will pop my head in her room every so often, but hell no am I going to get her up just because she's mad.

To clarify - we didn't let her cry for longer than about 10 minutes at a time until she was big enough to understand that it was nap/bed time. Even now, if she's crying something other than her "angry" cry, we go comfort her within 5 minutes, but other than that, I 100% back cry it out

anewadventure · October 2017

i'm not touching the CIO topic with a 10-foot pole right now.

skc040512 · October 2017

@anewadventure leave it to me to throw that out there then, lol

babytimeagain · October 2017

@kaylawing I'm totally with you on the Starbucks thing. I just don't get why dropping that much $$ on mediocre coffee and waiting in line/the drive-through appeals to people. Also, the amount of sugar in their drinks is jaw-dropping. Just no. I'll make my lattes and cappuccinos at home, thank you very much.

elev2017 · October 2017

@skcobb I don't have as much of an issue with letting older babies/toddlers CIO the way you described.

elev2017 · October 2017

@kaylawing @hellothere47 I'm a sucker for Starbucks chai lattes... and I generally use the app to order ahead so I walk right in and have my drink and breakfast sandwich waiting for me (only once or twice a week, not daily). I live in New England though, so I'm sort of considered a traitor for not loving Dunkin' Donuts.

whiska · October 2017

@leilagphillips I don't know if you're a pumpkin spice person but my fall drink is: grande no water chai latte with 2 pumps chai, 1 pump pumpkin spice, add whip.
If you order a "pumpkin chai" it's 4+4 pumps of syrup and that's way overkill for me!

kaylawing · October 2017

@leilagphillips I definitely still go sometimes because of the app, ordering ahead, drive through convenience factor. Just don’t think it’s the best. But now I want a chai latte:)

elcd458 · October 2017

@anewadventure Haha! Add me to the list! I think CIO gets a bad rap but for the reasons @Skcobb mentioned (people don't actually take the time to learn the real method). Personally I think any sleep strategy that keeps mom and dad from going insane and doesn't physically harm LO is just fine. We put so much pressure on ourselves to be perfect parents and it's just not possible! To me, sleep training is one of those things that, if done under duress for the wrong reasons and a method you secretly wouldn't prefer, can contribute to PPD and other issues just like the pressure to BF when it's traumatic and not working for you/baby.

tamaraaaa · October 2017

I don't like Starbucks because I don't like coffee.

failuretofly · October 2017

I try to make all my parenting decisions as science backed as possible, within reason. And studies have shown that any variation if CIO can cause long term psychological damage. Plus, I just can't wrap my head around going against my own instincts to allow my child to cry without me near. We sleep trained DS at 9 months using the baby whisperer, which I mean is definitely not a no-cry solution, but you are with them the whole time, and he is honestly the best sleeper when we keep on top of our routines. And I know what you're going to say, some kids are just good sleepers. But any time life has thrown us a curve ball and we let our habits slip, he becomes a nightmare. One of my close girlfriends let's her kid cry it out every night because she doesn't know what else to do... and I just feel soooo bad for that poor child left to cry herself to sleep nearly every night. You can teach your kid to sleep independently without leaving them to cry all alone.

kln62689 · October 2017

@peachy13 I completely agree about information overload. I have definitely freaked myself out reading stuff I found on the internet or the bajillion books I ordered on BFP day. My OB has luckily figured out the less he tells me the better, so I know everything he does tell me is important. This is all just pregnancy related, on the actual child raising front I am completely lost. Basically the only 'decisions' I have made are no blankets in the crib, we won't be cosleeping, and I am not ruling out spanking. That is not a playbook in raising a child, those are 3 very minor issues. I really hope DH and I just 'figure it out' like you said.

skc040512 · October 2017

@failuretofly Unfortunately, I've found that trying to base parenting on "scientifically proven" theories mean that you still have about 5 different conflicting theories that qualify. For every study that says CIO (done correctly) causes psychological damage, you've got an equal amount saying CIO (again, done correctly) instills a sense of independence from as young as a few months old.

It's the same for every other parenting decision out there, like @peachy13 was saying. You have to do what works for you and your kid. Believe me, we tried every method for DD, including baby whisperer, and nothing worked. DD had wanted to do everything by herself since she was about 6 months old, so CIO works best for us. It won't work for everyone, but assuming that it's going to cause psychological damage is a *bit* of a stretch.

jlemons-2 · October 2017

Sooooo... I am horrible at letting my baby cry at all. Total attachment parenting right here. My pampered little girl was rocked or nursed to sleep every night until she was over one. Now we lay in her bed with her and listen to classical music until she's at least almost asleep. I don't know what I'm going to do now that I will have two!

eazybreezy225 · October 2017

My first two girls slept through the night fairly early (3 weeks, and 6 weeks old)... Yes I was a spoiled bitch, lol. But with my 3rd, she was still waking up every 4 hours every night at 8 months old... And it was taking a huge toll on me. Caring for my other young children, running a household, suffering from severe PPD, and DH was working 12+ hour days... I was near my breaking point.
CIO saved my life, and I was shocked at how quickly it worked (just 2 nights). I was kicking myself for not doing it a month or two earlier than I did. And it told me that DD3's sleeping habits were simply that, a habit. She was waking up every 4 hours because that's what our routine was, not because she HAD to have those night feedings.
I think you know your baby better than anyone else ever will. Better than any doctor, internet research, book, or nosy family member... So while they can give you all the "advice" or swear up and down that their way is "best". It's all just a bunch of bullshit.

TigerCakes · October 2017

@jlemons-2 We also lay with DS until he is asleep every night. He then wakes up a few hours later at which point I bring him into my bed to sleep for the rest of the night. I’m really unsure how this will work with two, but I don’t want to just let him cry and I don’t really have the patience for the more gentle sleep training methods.

jlemons-2 · October 2017

@TigerCakes I'm glad I'm not alone. We will figure it out somehow, it's nice to have someone in the same boat.

Marley629 · October 2017

My son is 4 and still requires us in the room with him until he falls asleep. And if he wakes up and neither of us is in there, he comes finds us and yells at us for leaving him. I don't think he will ever do sleepovers at other people's houses. (which is ok with me because I never slept over friends houses either which I guess is my UO, I don't ever want him sleeping over his friends houses. They can come to ours).

anewadventure · October 2017

failuretofly said:

I try to make all my parenting decisions as science backed as possible, within reason. And studies have shown that any variation if CIO can cause long term psychological damage. Plus, I just can't wrap my head around going against my own instincts to allow my child to cry without me near. We sleep trained DS at 9 months using the baby whisperer, which I mean is definitely not a no-cry solution, but you are with them the whole time, and he is honestly the best sleeper when we keep on top of our routines. And I know what you're going to say, some kids are just good sleepers. But any time life has thrown us a curve ball and we let our habits slip, he becomes a nightmare. One of my close girlfriends let's her kid cry it out every night because she doesn't know what else to do... and I just feel soooo bad for that poor child left to cry herself to sleep nearly every night. You can teach your kid to sleep independently without leaving them to cry all alone.

my friend...i know you are a woman of strong opinions. as i am myself. i have no problem with that.

however.

i can't even quite define my reaction to your posts here but i can say that it's all negative. i think this statement is completely out of line. if you clearly feel strongly, as ladies did earlier in their tenure here, please start a thread about articles and post some of these vaunted studies for people to read and judge for themselves. simply making statements like the above is both ridiculous and off-putting.

i have no problem with you following your own instincts to be more of an attachment-type parent. you do you, as long as you're not putting your child in ACTUAL danger of physical and emotional harm, then it's not my place to say what's right for you and what's not.

kimbo2015 · October 2017

I hated the CIO method but when my daughter was still wanting to sleep with me when she was close to two I knew I needed to do something. I slowly made her CIO and it helped a ton! Right after she turned two she was moved into a toddler bed and we haven't had an issue since then! Definitely not planning to let this little guy even start those habits.

flowerpower5838 · October 2017

To add to what @anewadventure said, I think that ALL of us should keep in mind that just because you (theoretical you) can't imagine doing XYZ (listening to babe cry, pumping them full of vaccines, sharing a bed until two) for whatever reason - it's not fair to project your personal feelings onto others. It does not kill me to hear my baby now toddler cry and I am sick of society telling me I am a shitty mother for not feeling that way.

I'm pretty lucky that DS has been a fairly good sleeper (in comparison to some of my friends). He was waking once* since basically birth and that's it. At around 6 months we started doing a self-modified Ferber method which I am sure is probably some other method lol. I don't want to compare my son to a smoker, but it's like he was down to one cig a day and was just waking to smoke it out of habit. Smoking one cigarette a day doesn't make someone a smoker, it means they're holding on to a habit they've created even though they're ready to stop.

I agree with some of the misconceptions about CIO - if people dont research it, many think it's exactly what was mentioned above about closing the door and saying see ya later! Also agree with every one study there is being anti X I can probably find 3 for being pro X (WITHIN REASON OBVIOUSLY). If it's not for you, that's fine.

Also it's important to remember that this is the UO thread so of course share your personal opinions, but in general let's try and not let people feel like monsters for very popular parenting decisions that cause animosity and divisiveness.

*ETA a word

ameliabedelia-2 · October 2017

We also used a quasi-CIO approach with DD. She was a terrible sleeper and was still up every hour or two at 10 months. I read a lot of books on sleeping and used parts of each of them to create a routine that worked for our family. We would let her cry for 10-15 mins at a time in her own bed, soothe her, and then repeat as long as necessary. As long as I knew she wasn't hungry, wet, or in pain, she stayed in bed. It only took a week or two before she was sleeping through the night. Two years later she's still a fantastic sleeper with no issues going down on her own. We are able to have guests over, or hang out with friends at their homes and make it through our bedtime routine in less than 5 minutes. Everyone always comments about how quick and painless it is to put her down.

elcd458 · October 2017

Just out of curiosity, how do y'all make it work with a kiddo (and now, potentially multiple kiddos) in the bed with you? We are not particularly large people but even in a queen size bed I can't figure out how another person of any shape or size could also fit in here. Maybe I have no frame of reference because I never slept in my parents' bed? I need diagrams or something to figure this out

skc040512 · October 2017

@elcd458 DH is 6'3" and I'm a little overweight. We're in a queen size bed. No way in hell can we fit a kid in there too

Maybe if we had a king?

Edited for spelling

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